I hate Christians because God loves them more than me.



* * *

I am fully aware that this thread will most likely get closed or deleted, due to the hateful nature of it.

I could have made a perfectly sound argument, supported theologically, sociologically, historically etc..

And argument that would look well and objective -- and be completely impersonal.

An argument that would completely miss the point and dress up true feelings into something tolerable.

But lets' face it: Religion and God are personal matters. At some point, I got so far as to become full and ill of all those impersonal, objective arguments.

Talking about God isn't something where afterwards, you could nicely sit down and have your lunch in peace. It doesn't work that way, and no amount of mental acrobatics won't make it so.


I hate Christians because God loves them more than me.

Hi water,

You’ve come a long way. Nothing wrong with expressing your feelings. But if you love and accept yourself enough, you need never hate anybody else. Discarding organised religion is the first step in self-acceptance and self-love. Any religion or doctrine that preaches the redemption of only a select few, and talks in terms of eternal damnation does not deserve to be taken seriously.

In a nutshell to summarise the morality of Christianity, whatever the circumstances from a historical perspective, the atrocities committed (as described) by the Christian god in the OT is unforgivable and unnecessary. Christian doctrine states that this god is also Jesus.

Therefore, whatever this religion stands for, or says it stand for, is not what I stand for. You cannot love with the one hand and kill with the other. DISCARD. So maybe one should rather feel sorry for Christians who are happy, or blind enough to worship a god of this nature.

Allcare.

Sounds like a personal problem. The only real advice I can think of is to stop worrying about what God thinks.

I don't believe in a god, so I don't hate christians because a nonexistant entity nonexistantly loves them more than me.
I hate them because they fail to realize the truth: there is no god. deities and the like were though up by humans in a time when we understood nothing of our surroundings, and had to concoct reasons as to why "x" happened. We have gone a long way since then, but some people (christians, etc.) prefer to stay in the intellectual dark age...

I don't believe in a god, so I don't hate christians because a nonexistant entity nonexistantly loves them more than me.
I hate them because they fail to realize the truth: there is no god. deities and the like were though up by humans in a time when we understood nothing of our surroundings, and had to concoct reasons as to why "x" happened. We have gone a long way since then, but some people (christians, etc.) prefer to stay in the intellectual dark age...

You have proven a negative? How?

Logic.
'ere ye heard of it?

You’ve come a long way.

What is this supposed to mean?


Nothing wrong with expressing your feelings. But if you love and accept yourself enough, you need never hate anybody else. Discarding organised religion is the first step in self-acceptance and self-love. Any religion or doctrine that preaches the redemption of only a select few, and talks in terms of eternal damnation does not deserve to be taken seriously.

Why not? It's mere observation. Evolution theory preaches survival of the fittest, natural selection -- so how can we seriously oppose any non-universalist view if we accept evolution?!


In a nutshell to summarise the morality of Christianity, whatever the circumstances from a historical perspective, the atrocities committed (as described) by the Christian god in the OT is unforgivable and unnecessary. Christian doctrine states that this god is also Jesus.

You would have a case if this god would do BOTH harm and WELL to the SAME person, at the same time, preferrably.

And on what basis can you judge anything to be "unforgivable and unnecessary"?


Therefore, whatever this religion stands for, or says it stand for, is not what I stand for.

And? What authority do you have, and over whom?


You cannot love with the one hand and kill with the other.

Where do you live? Because it isn't planet earth.

You have let modern woossiness infect you and take over you.


DISCARD. So maybe one should rather feel sorry for Christians who are happy, or blind enough to worship a god of this nature.

Neither you nor I know fully what they know.


And, yah, that's awfully nice of you. Preach "But if you love and accept yourself enough, you need never hate anybody else." and then preach pitying others.

Logic.
'ere ye heard of it?

It is logic that says you cannot prove a negative.

Romans 2:9-11
There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.

Acts 10:34-35
Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.
So I don't know what you would base your argument on. Based on who you are now, you are no more nor less condemned because of sin than any Christian had ever been. It is because God's love shown in Christ that we follow Him and call ourselves Christians. Not because He called us Christians and then loved us.

Water, if you're not a Christian, then is your God the same one as theirs?
If not then why does it matter that their God loves them more than you?

If they are the same God then why do you feel that it loves them more than you? What makes you think that?

Is it because of what the Christians believe about their God?

However, if you truly believe in whatever you believe in then it should make no difference what other people believe in, even if it's about the same entity/thing/God/whatever, as you "believe" your own beliefs to be true, regardless of what other people claim.

Other people's beliefs will only worry you / concern you if your own beliefs are failing and you are starting to feel that maybe the others (in this case, the Christians), have a better path - or some such thing.

I do not hate Christians. Why hate anyone?

I only pity them, as there is no God...he would contradict himself far too much for plausibility. (At least there certainly cannot be the christian version of god.)

FK

I hate Christians because God loves them more than me.

As I'd think you to be aware of, anyone who tells you they have insight as to god's preference is uhm... well you know. So your premise is flawed.

Further, I'd think that if "god" were "just" then "he" would love you more than a christian who claimed god loves christians more.

There is no higher blasphemy IMO though, than to speak of "what god would think"... ...as if what "god" might "think" could be remotely comprehensible to humans. Unbelievable arrogance births such ponderance if asserted as more than folly.

There are no answers to questions of god(s).

I hate Christians because God loves them more than me.
God told me, he loves you more than christians.

Originally Posted by water
I hate Christians because God loves them more than me.

Wow :eek: That's an incredible statement, if it is your true feelings?


2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Its really weird why most people would talk about God by personifying him (even the him here is that we just use to use it, not that "he" is male or female or anything corresponding to it)..... but it is really bothering!!

Assuming "he" had human in nature than he wouldn't be perfect, would he?
So the idea of God "loving someone" or "hating him/her" isn't accurate becuase you would be attributing human character to who, theologically speaking, aint human in anyway.....

What really matters in this aspect is what you do, to any religion you belong, what is your response to the tests and different situations you might face during your life time, and what you know and what you don't know is a major factor...........

So, the concept of "God's love to someone" is "silly", and its only a christian concept used to win more converts, but not having any logical backing.

After all, do they have any "covenant" that they might reveil to show the "Devine love" the possess!! I doubt anyone has such a thing.

Water, when I first read your post I thought it was a joke poking fun at the way that many people who call themselves Christians behave and/or profess.

I've come to know a thing or two about God through rebirth in Christ, so I indeed call myself a Christian, and I do know very certainly that God does not love me or anyone else more than He loves you.

And isn't what you've said paradoxical? In that if you truly believe what you've attested to, then in doing so, you have actually defined yourself to be a Christian. A confused one, but one none the less.

If you were to come to know God then it would be obvious to you through your interaction with Him that what you're saying is not true. You would know and understand, like I do, that He loves all of us the same...infinitely and unconditionally.

Love,

Lori

It is logic that says you cannot prove a negative.
No, it is logic that a deity that "created everything" and "has always existed" DOES NOT EXIST, especially when we are presented with viable, tangible, and more realistic theories and facts such as the Big Bang and Evolution.
Rationalism.

I am fully aware that this thread will most likely get closed or deleted, due to the hateful nature of it.
Then why did you post it?

Talking about God isn't something where afterwards, you could nicely sit down and have your lunch in peace. It doesn't work that way, and no amount of mental acrobatics won't make it so.
I have on many occasions done just that. God is a word, and abstraction that means different things to different people. At lunch with my Christian friends, we often joke about what God said to Bill Gates, or something similar.
The word God only means something heavy when you add context to it, mainly emotions. But if the people you´re around think the same way you do there´s a lot less of that.

It´s when we start taking ideas and ideals and lording them over our fellow humans that all that nasty emotional brawling starts. If you keep a sense of humor and notice your own fallability then it hurts a lot less.
(by ¨you¨ and ¨your¨ I don´t mean ¨you specifically¨)

[snip]He loves all of us the same...infinitely and unconditionally.



*waves* hi, new here and all that jazz... browsing but HAD to chime in on this one. How does one come to believe that the Christian God loves everyone infinitely and unconditionally?

God loves them more than me.
Wrong. Proof?
You obviously have no reason for hating Christians.
It's ok. I'm sure Christians hate you too.
I suggest you go and be another follower of atheism.
You'll fit right in perfectly well with them. Most atheists hate Christians just like you. Atheists usually have no understanding of anything, and cry and complain everytime religion is preached.

Jenyar,


So I don't know what you would base your argument on. Based on who you are now, you are no more nor less condemned because of sin than any Christian had ever been. It is because God's love shown in Christ that we follow Him and call ourselves Christians. Not because He called us Christians and then loved us.

God answers your prayers, but not mine. He shows favoritism.


* * *


Sarkus,


Water, if you're not a Christian, then is your God the same one as theirs?
If not then why does it matter that their God loves them more than you?

I take there is only one God, and different religions understand this God differently.


If they are the same God then why do you feel that it loves them more than you? What makes you think that?

Look at them. They get what they've asked for.


Is it because of what the Christians believe about their God?

However, if you truly believe in whatever you believe in then it should make no difference what other people believe in, even if it's about the same entity/thing/God/whatever, as you "believe" your own beliefs to be true, regardless of what other people claim.

Other people's beliefs will only worry you / concern you if your own beliefs are failing and you are starting to feel that maybe the others (in this case, the Christians), have a better path - or some such thing.

Apparently, they do.


* * *

wesmorris,


As I'd think you to be aware of, anyone who tells you they have insight as to god's preference is uhm... well you know. So your premise is flawed.

Further, I'd think that if "god" were "just" then "he" would love you more than a christian who claimed god loves christians more.

There is no higher blasphemy IMO though, than to speak of "what god would think"... ...as if what "god" might "think" could be remotely comprehensible to humans. Unbelievable arrogance births such ponderance if asserted as more than folly.

There are no answers to questions of god(s).

There goes proving that negative ...

Either God is a revealed God and interacts with His creation. Or God just sits there somewhere, and doesn't care -- then he can go fuck himself.


* * *

everneo,


God told me, he loves you more than christians.

Really? You sure?


* * *

Adstar,


Wow That's an incredible statement, if it is your true feelings?

Yes.


2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

I think God is slack when it comes to me.


* * *

Lori_7,


I've come to know a thing or two about God through rebirth in Christ, so I indeed call myself a Christian, and I do know very certainly that God does not love me or anyone else more than He loves you.

Well, *I* would not know that.


And isn't what you've said paradoxical? In that if you truly believe what you've attested to, then in doing so, you have actually defined yourself to be a Christian. A confused one, but one none the less.

?
Believing in God does not make one a Christian.


If you were to come to know God then it would be obvious to you through your interaction with Him that what you're saying is not true. You would know and understand, like I do, that He loves all of us the same...infinitely and unconditionally.

IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFf.
But, it is God who grants understanding ...

* * *

Hapsburg,


No, it is logic that a deity that "created everything" and "has always existed" DOES NOT EXIST, especially when we are presented with viable, tangible, and more realistic theories and facts such as the Big Bang and Evolution.
Rationalism.

No shit, Big Bang and evolution are "tangible"?
You really need to learn something about logic and how to apply it.


* * *


SkippingStones,


Then why did you post it?

Because I am angry, and I won't let it boil up, and then show it little by little, just here an there. I rather say it as it is, instead of leaving people wondering about a hateful undertone in my posts.


It´s when we start taking ideas and ideals and lording them over our fellow humans that all that nasty emotional brawling starts. If you keep a sense of humor and notice your own fallability then it hurts a lot less.
(by ¨you¨ and ¨your¨ I don´t mean ¨you specifically¨)

In other words, "Be happy with whatever you have".

How does one come to believe that the Christian God loves everyone infinitely and unconditionally?

It seems that one knows that when it happens -- when God chooses so.


* * *

Hello and welcome.

cool skill: You obviously have no reason for hating Christians.
It's ok. I'm sure Christians hate you too. I suggest you go and be another follower of atheism. You'll fit right in perfectly well with them. Most atheists hate Christians just like you. Atheists usually have no understanding of anything, and cry and complain everytime religion is preached.
*************
M*W: I wanted to make a point here that Atheists don't "hate" Christians, we pity them for their gullibility and naivete, and we just flat don't want to be around them. I am not the spokes-person for Atheism; I can only speak for myself. Christians think they know and understand Atheists, but they really don't. Atheists are probably the most peace-loving group there is. We don't harbor hatred for those who are ignorant -- we just don't like to be around them. Concerning this forum, preaching is NOT allowed, but Christians still preach. If this comes any closer to a Christian forum, I'm sure many Atheists would leave. It's only natural for us humans to be with those of like mind.

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves." Matt 7:15

christians=ravening wolves

Wrong. Proof?

My prayers are never answered. And it's not like I'm asking for the proverbial pony.

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:10

water=heaven

It is logic that says you cannot prove a negative.
maybe now you can
www.graveyardofthegods.com/articles/cantprovenegative.html
and
www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/theory.html

My prayers are never answered. And it's not like I'm asking for the proverbial pony.
Point?
Go join the atheist congregation as seen in my previous post. You will fit in well with those.

M*W: I wanted to make a point here that Atheists don't "hate" Christians, we pity them for their gullibility and naivete, and we just flat don't want to be around them. I am not the spokes-person for Atheism; I can only speak for myself. Christians think they know and understand Atheists, but they really don't. Atheists are probably the most peace-loving group there is. We don't harbor hatred for those who are ignorant -- we just don't like to be around them. Concerning this forum, preaching is NOT allowed, but Christians still preach. If this comes any closer to a Christian forum, I'm sure many Atheists would leave. It's only natural for us humans to be with those of like mind.
Wrong. Atheists hate Christians/resent Christianity. They are an upset group. Atheists do not even know what they are talking about most of the time. They are the most ignorant of all religions. They claim that many Christians do not understand atheists, and that they are peaceful and loving. There is no bigger load of bull and self delusion than that.
Atheists are just short of being another rediculous hate group. Atheists think they are not gullible and naive because they don't believe in religion. They are too gullible and naive to know that one has nothing to do with the other.
Atheists are not emotionally stable. Atheists do cry and complain everytime somebody preaches. Anybody that hates Christians might as well join the like-mindedless atheist hate group. The few atheists that are aware that atheists are as fanatical as any other group at least are more objective.
Any typical atheist that believes atheists are not fanatic psychos trying to impose their beliefs is nothing short of completely subjective minded.

.. Most atheists hate Christians just like you.
HOW MANY atheists do you actualy know to make such silly statement?

Id wager not many.
its probably what all those idiotic preachers like to pound into your brains...that you are the ones being discriminated against by those evilutionists godless heathens..right?
no morality without God etc..right?
well heres your Gods moral teachings in case you havent read the whole buybull
www.evilbible.com/

Atheists usually have no understanding of anything, and cry and complain everytime religion is preached.
b/c religion SUCKS...it stops the thinking mind

seriously dude youre on Sciforums using this invention called computer...who the fuck do you think got you and your deluded narrow minded religious imbeciles this far into the modern age???

certainly not your Church/religions,
hell if it wasnt for the Freethinking atheists you would still be living on Flat Earth and think theres demons and Bad Spirits ready to take over your Soul when you sneeze..and pray to some diety when you get sick instead of going to the doctors..while believing the earth is 6 thousand years young,

and you want to teach this religious horseshit as the Truth in schools..

get real... (www.thewaronfaith.com/wtf_say_thank_you.htm)

Wrong. Atheists hate Christians/resent Christianity.
what exactly would atheists RESENT xianity for??? :rolleyes:

Atheists do not even know what they are talking about most of the time. They are the most ignorant of all religions.
unlike YOU who actualy THINKS that lack of belief in gods=religion!! :rolleyes:

They claim that many Christians do not understand atheists,
thnx for proving you dont! ;)

now go cruize some atheist sites
such as
www.atheists.org
www.infidels.org
and learn what the fuck atheism is and isnt before you embarrass yourself any further here

Funny how Christians on here like to pretend Calvin was wrong.

*Sigh*

I like this verse; tis water to my soul.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."[f] 16So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth."[g] 18Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

It seems that one knows that when it happens -- when God chooses so.


* * *

Hello and welcome.

Thank you for the welcome, water. :)

I appreciate your response, however that isn't quite what I was getting at. I am curious as to how a Christian can reconcile the concept of 'unconditional love' with the rest of their Dogma. If unconditional means, not subject to or dependent upon something essential to the appearance or occurrence of something else; then how is Gods love unconditional when in order to be worthy of it according to Christian dogma, one must first accept that Christ made a personal sacrifice for them?

Either Gods love is unconditional, or belief in that sacrifice is not necessary for salvation.

Personally, I like it best when 1+1=2. ;)

It seems God has not hardened water. yet. As for you Southstar maybe He has? Remember you have rejected the Love Of The Truth.


Water what are these unanswered prayers? PM me with them if you like.

You said people can believe in God without being Christian. You are very right. But as a follower of Jesus i believe Jesus when He said:

John 14
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

If what i believe is true. Then your prayers will never be considered if you do not embrace the Love Of The Truth.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

cool skill: Wrong. Atheists hate Christians/resent Christianity.
*************
M*W: Atheists have no reason to "hate Christians and/or resent Christianity. To atheists. Christianity doesn't really exist, so it's not a threat.
*************
cool skill: They are an upset group. Atheists do not even know what they are talking about most of the time. They are the most ignorant of all religions. They claim that many Christians do not understand atheists, and that they are peaceful and loving.
*************
M*W: Atheists are not concerned with the religious beliefs of others. For atheists, they simply don't exist. Atheists hating something that they don't believe exists is incomprehensible.
*************
cool skill: There is no bigger load of bull and self delusion than that. Atheists are just short of being another rediculous hate group. Atheists think they are not gullible and naive because they don't believe in religion. They are too gullible and naive to know that one has nothing to do with the other.
*************
M*W: Atheists do not suffer from "self-delusion." Atheists are not a "hate group."
*************
cool skill: Atheists are not emotionally stable. Atheists do cry and complain everytime somebody preaches.
*************
M*W: Atheists are more emotionally stable than Christians!!! We simply don't want to hear any preaching. It truly does fall on deaf ears.
*************
cool skill: Anybody that hates Christians might as well join the like-mindedless atheist hate group. The few atheists that are aware that atheists are as fanatical as any other group at least are more objective.
*************
M*W: I repeat -- atheists DO NOT hate any religion. Why should they? These things do not exist for Atheists, so there is no hate involved.
*************
cool skill: Any typical atheist that believes atheists are not fanatic psychos trying to impose their beliefs is nothing short of completely subjective minded.
*************
M*W: As I have stated before, Atheists never try to impose their beliefs on Christians. It takes time for a Christian to see the error of his ways (also called believing in the lies), so they will understand the fruitlessness of believing in a dying demigod savior. No atheist ever forces a Christian to believe anything. It just doesn't work that way.

HOW MANY atheists do you actualy know to make such silly statement?
YOU.
All of your statements are completely obsurd and fanatical. Come with something new. Atheists are fanatics. Try not to get carried away with your garbage.



its probably what all those idiotic preachers like to pound into your brains

As far as the rules go, atheists are the only religion allowed to preach in this thread. You should be happy. And they say the religious are not discriminated against. What a joke.



religion SUCKS...it stops the thinking mind
Typical atheist fanatical meandering.



seriously dude youre on Sciforums using this invention called computer...who the fuck do you think got you and your deluded narrow minded religious imbeciles this far into the modern age???
Certainly not brainless atheists are. Learn some logic, and come back when you are ready for reality.


hell if it wasnt for the Freethinking atheists
HAHAHAHA! FREETHINKING ATHEIST! I'm supposed to beleive there is such thing? And I suppose you believei in Santa Clause too? HAHAHAHA!
I suggest you keep your mythological delusions to yourself. HAHAHAHA!

what exactly would atheists RESENT xianity for???
If you can't figure it out, I guess have a fairy delusion about what atheism really is beyond the simple definition. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



unlike YOU who actualy THINKS that lack of belief in gods=religion!!

It is a religion. Get rid of the lack of belief garbage, and try something new. :rolleyes:



and learn what the fuck atheism is and isnt before you embarrass yourself any further here

HAHAHAHA!
You obviously have not the slightest clue about what atheism is. Who's embarrassing yourself now?

Atheists are fanatics. Try not to get carried away with your garbage.
And Christians aren't fanatics?
A little thing called the Crusades comes to mind...


HAHAHAHA! FREETHINKING ATHEIST! I'm supposed to beleive there is such thing?
And there no such thing as a religiously open athiest?
Have you ever fucking HEARD of Frederick the Great of Prussia?
I myself am an open-minded athiest, so don't generalize people, fucktard.

M*W: Atheists have no reason to "hate Christians and/or resent Christianity. To atheists. Christianity doesn't really exist, so it's not a threat.
*************
Wrong. I'll believe that when I see an atheist that doesn't hold any disdain for religion. I have never met an atheist that is so delusional that he would believe that Christianity doesn't exist.


M*W: Atheists are not concerned with the religious beliefs of others. For atheists, they simply don't exist. Atheists hating something that they don't believe exists is incomprehensible.
*************
Wrong. Atheists hate religion. What is so difficult?


M*W: Atheists do not suffer from "self-delusion." Atheists are not a "hate group."
*************
Wrong. When I speak of atheists, I really mean most atheist. There are of course exceptions. Atheists have plethoras of delusions. They might as well be a hate group against religion.


M*W: Atheists are more emotionally stable than Christians!!! We simply don't want to hear any preaching. It truly does fall on deaf ears.
*************
THIS CANNOT BE FARHTER FROM WRONG. Atheists are the most emotionally unstable you can get. OF course there is the exception atheist that could care less about preaching. But for the most part, those atheists have some emotional control issue about preaching. Such atheists are insane.


M*W: I repeat -- atheists DO NOT hate any religion. Why should they? These things do not exist for Atheists, so there is no hate involved.
*************
Wrong. I repeat - Yes they do hate any religion.


M*W: As I have stated before, Atheists never try to impose their beliefs on Christians. It takes time for a Christian to see the error of his ways (also called believing in the lies), so they will understand the fruitlessness of believing in a dying demigod savior. No atheist ever forces a Christian to believe anything. It just doesn't work that way.
*************
Wrong. For the billionth time, atheists are the biggest fanatical imposers. This whole last paragraph of yours is the most fanatical thing on this entire thread other than the second post.
You are a fanatical atheist. You wish to impose your beliefs on others. Just accept and move on. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge you own extreme fanaticism makes you all the more fanatical.

Water,

Congradulations. God hated you before you were even born, like the same way he hated Esau. (Romans 9:11-24)

Remember potter has the power over clay. He can make one object of honor and another object of dishonor with the same lump.

You are the object of wraith, prepared for destruction, to enrich God's glory on the object of mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory.

By not answering your prayers and condemning you toward eternal torture, God glorifies himself.

*waves* hi, new here and all that jazz... browsing but HAD to chime in on this one. How does one come to believe that the Christian God loves everyone infinitely and unconditionally?

Hi there newbie! I came to believe that by getting to know Him personally...through knowledge of Him, including His character and nature. And in case you wondered, I came to know Him by sincerely wanting to know Him...in other words, I asked for it...ask...knock...and there ya go.

Wubbies,

Lori

Willow,

Sorry to butt in, as you were not addressing me, but God's love is not even dependent upon your salvation. Your salvation in Christ is your choice, not His. He loves you just as much as anyone of us regardless of any of your choices, including that one. And so, His love is entirely unconditional.

He gives you what you sincerely want...and ask for. So if you don't want to know Him, He gives you that. He's answered all of my prayers...just never in a way, or a time frame that I've even remotely expected. The waiting seems unbearable at times, but man when He comes through, He just blows your expectations away. I have experienced that God's love and power is so much more than a human could ever conceive of.

Cool Skill, you are a poor, deluded, fool...
Really.
I'm an athiest. Most of my friends are athiests.
They do not hate religion. They simply don't care. There is a big difference between not giving a shit and hating something.
You really should get to know some athiests before generalizing and stereotyping a group of people. You are just making generalizations that do not apply to the majority of athiests.

?
Believing in God does not make one a Christian.




It does if the God you believe in loves Christians more than He does you. I mean, I'm assuming that you believe Him to be the Christian God if He were to love Christians more than you...otherwise why would He? Even though what you are accusing Him of is not what the faith attests to, if you believe in the Christian God, then you're a Christian. Right?

I am making generalizations. The only deluded major idiot is you. You really should get to know a brain before glorifying your illiterate comments with personal attacks.

God answers your prayers, but not mine. He shows favoritism.There isn't anyone there to answer anyone's prayers. It's superstitious to think something was granted to you simply because you asked for it.

So really, their prayers aren't being answered any more or less than yours are.

God answers your prayers, but not mine. He shows favoritism.
That's a very selfish conclusion. There are just as many Christians who have felt their prayers weren't answered. It doesn't point to favouritism if it points to wisdom.

But possibly Christians have had more practice at discerning God's answers, or are more willing to testify to them, so they seem "priviledged". There are many things that might be condidered. Have you tried to find out God's complete answer, or did you stop listening the moment you didn't get what you asked for? Wasn't He still answering your first prayer when you asked the next question? Didn't you perhaps hear "no" when He said "wait"? Did you do what He suggested? The reasons could vary as much as the answers, because every person's relationship with God is unique and so is their circumstances. Do you trust Him?

Lori_7,


Your salvation in Christ is your choice, not His.

You are blaspheming. You are practically saying that a person can command God around, at will.
"I believe in Christ, so God, save me!" No way.


Believing in God does not make one a Christian.

It does if the God you believe in loves Christians more than He does you.

I have not the slightest clue as to how you come to this conclusion.
Are you saying Christianity was there first, and then came God?


I mean, I'm assuming that you believe Him to be the Christian God if He were to love Christians more than you...otherwise why would He? Even though what you are accusing Him of is not what the faith attests to, if you believe in the Christian God, then you're a Christian. Right?

I believe there is one God, and religions understand Him differently. Because of different religions, does not automatically mean that there are different Gods.

First there was God, then came the religions. Christians seem to be God's favourites.


* * *

Athelwulf,


There isn't anyone there to answer anyone's prayers. It's superstitious to think something was granted to you simply because you asked for it.

So really, their prayers aren't being answered any more or less than yours are.

This is a statement of negative faith, but still faith. You don't know whether there indeed is noone to answer prayers.

cool skill,


My prayers are never answered. And it's not like I'm asking for the proverbial pony.

Point?

I'm angry and disappointed.


Go join the atheist congregation as seen in my previous post. You will fit in well with those.

I do not want to be part of the "atheist congregation". They either argue against some strawmen gods and blame other people for their disbelief in God, or they know God, but don't care.
Neither of these is a viable option for me.


* * *

scoripus,


seriously dude youre on Sciforums using this invention called computer...who the fuck do you think got you and your deluded narrow minded religious imbeciles this far into the modern age???

certainly not your Church/religions,
hell if it wasnt for the Freethinking atheists you would still be living on Flat Earth and think theres demons and Bad Spirits ready to take over your Soul when you sneeze..and pray to some diety when you get sick instead of going to the doctors..while believing the earth is 6 thousand years young,

and you want to teach this religious horseshit as the Truth in schools..

get real...

How nice, mature and stabile of you!


* * *

§outh§tar,


Funny how Christians on here like to pretend Calvin was wrong.

It all depends on how we understand Calvinistic doctrine.


* * *

Willow,


I appreciate your response, however that isn't quite what I was getting at. I am curious as to how a Christian can reconcile the concept of 'unconditional love' with the rest of their Dogma. If unconditional means, not subject to or dependent upon something essential to the appearance or occurrence of something else; then how is Gods love unconditional when in order to be worthy of it according to Christian dogma, one must first accept that Christ made a personal sacrifice for them?

Either Gods love is unconditional, or belief in that sacrifice is not necessary for salvation.

A lot of abstract, reductionist analytical bullshit was later on added, in the way people interpreted the Bible.
My bet is that the whole thing is a lot simpler, and that accepting Christ does not mean going around and saying "I have accepted Christ". One can accept Christ in her works, be thankful for the gifts she receives, and ask forgiveness for the wrongs she did. Faith is attested before God anyway, not before people.


* * *

Adstar,


It seems God has not hardened water. yet.

Have are we to know?


As for you Southstar maybe He has? Remember you have rejected the Love Of The Truth.

I don't think he has. I think he is thoroughly disappointed at how he has been treated.


You said people can believe in God without being Christian. You are very right. But as a follower of Jesus i believe Jesus when He said:

John 14
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

If what i believe is true. Then your prayers will never be considered if you do not embrace the Love Of The Truth.

So you are suggesting I should just utter words that have no meaning for me?
Or, maybe, bang my head against the wall for so long until it gets soft enough to believe and say anything?

It is God who grants faith, and I'd be superstitious trying to believe on my own accord.

What does it mean to "embrace The Love of Truth"? Staring at a crucifix and somehow trying to make myself think this is it, I am "embracing The Love of Truth"?


* * *

Medicine Woman,


M*W: Atheists have no reason to "hate Christians and/or resent Christianity.

Atheists who once thought to be Christians, now resent Christians because supposedly, Christians have lied to them about God and Jesus.


To atheists. Christianity doesn't really exist, so it's not a threat.

Congratulations, you have hit a new low.


M*W: Atheists are not concerned with the religious beliefs of others. For atheists, they simply don't exist. Atheists hating something that they don't believe exists is incomprehensible.

Head in the sand, that's right!


Medicine Woman, I can now understand how some people (people like you) can invite others to become fundamentalists.


* * *

Hapsburg,


And Christians aren't fanatics?
A little thing called the Crusades comes to mind...

Two fallacies in one: a strawman and a selective observation.
1. You believe that whatever is done in God's name, is indeed so ordained and condoned by God. Which is a strawman argument.
2. You ignore the good works Christians have done. Which is selective observation.


* * *


Joeman,


Congradulations. God hated you before you were even born, like the same way he hated Esau. (Romans 9:11-24)

That is impossible to prove, without God giving confirmation about hating me.

This is a statement of negative faith, but still faith. You don't know whether there indeed is noone to answer prayers.
Actually, there's no faith involved. I don't believe there's a god. There's a difference between "I believe there's no god" and "I don't believe there's a god". The former is a statement of faith, the latter is a statement of the lack thereof.

And saying that I don't know there's no one is the same as saying I don't know there aren't leprechauns. I'll admit, though, that you could still theoretically be right on that call, for we could say we don't know if there indeed aren't leprechauns.

And Christians aren't fanatics?
A little thing called the Crusades comes to mind...
Two fallacies in one: a strawman and a selective observation.
1. You believe that whatever is done in God's name, is indeed so ordained and condoned by God. Which is a strawman argument.
2. You ignore the good works Christians have done. Which is selective observation.
Whether or not Hapsburg believes the Crusades were supposedly condoned by God, he didn't state that specifically. He simply is showing that Christians can indeed be fanatics. And although Christians have done plenty good for the world, that's not to say the other stuff is excusable.

You are blaspheming. You are practically saying that a person can command God around, at will.
"I believe in Christ, so God, save me!" No way.
It's not blasphemy. You can ask that from God because He allows you to. He wants you to realize you need Him and then accept His salvation by believing Him.
Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

:) Quote w:
“What is this supposed to mean?”

* My subjective opinion only, combined with freedom of speech.

Quote w:
“Why not? It's mere observation. Evolution theory preaches survival of the fittest, natural selection -- so how can we seriously oppose any non-universalist view if we accept evolution?!”

* Not to be taken seriously to the extant that it causes discomfort.

Quote w:
“You would have a case if this god would do BOTH harm and WELL to the SAME person, at the same time, preferrably.”

* Do you think Adam suffered no psychological trauma when god asked him to sacrifice his son, Abel? God knew all along he was only pulling a bluff. Are you saying that under the right circumstances atrocities like killing infants is acceptable?

Quote w:
“And on what basis can you judge anything to be "unforgivable and unnecessary"?

* On what basis can you “hate” Christians?

Quote w:
“And? What authority do you have, and over whom?”

* Hehe. I have “total” authority over myself, my emotions, beliefs and what I consider to be important.

Original quote stretched:
“You cannot love with the one hand and kill with the other.”

Quote w:
“Where do you live? Because it isn't planet earth.
You have let modern woossiness infect you and take over you.”

* My statement is in the context of the Biblical god. Do you see the Bible (OT and NT) as a message of love?

"And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.'" (Numbers 25:3-4)

* This was the punishment for worshipping other gods. This god is one loving MFer!

* As an aside, I live in a violent society, and I see violence and death more often than most, I am not naïve to reality. The only time I get woozy is when I overindulge in chocolate. Hehe.

Quote w:
“Neither you nor I know fully what they know.”

* If by “they” you mean Christians, I agree. But I know enough, and have enough confidence in my integrity to DISCARD what I consider absurd. Remember, we are not talking “spirituality” here. We are talking Christian god stuff.

Quote w:
“And, yah, that's awfully nice of you. Preach "But if you love and accept yourself enough, you need never hate anybody else." and then preach pitying others.”

* You are confusing two distinct issues. Essentially anything under the sun, including Christianity, is not worth the energy of “hatred”. In my opinion what you are searching for lies in a totally opposite direction. It lies within yourself, not with some god out yonder. The pity I display is my compassion regarding the pain Christian doctrine causes some folk regarding their own honesty, integrity and self esteem.

Allcare.

You are blaspheming. You are practically saying that a person can command God around, at will.
"I believe in Christ, so God, save me!" No way.

Yes way. There is your problem, you cannot accept the Love of the Truth. you don't believe in the grace of God through Jesus. Do you think God will consider your prayers when you through His loving gift back in His face like that?

You have no right to hate Christians. You have no right to hate God.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

It seems God has not hardened water. yet.

Have are we to know?

I was careful with my words i said "seems" I did not say if God had or had not i only said the thought i had on you.


You said people can believe in God without being Christian. You are very right. But as a follower of Jesus i believe Jesus when He said:

John 14
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

If what i believe is true. Then your prayers will never be considered if you do not embrace the Love Of The Truth.

So you are suggesting I should just utter words that have no meaning for me?
Or, maybe, bang my head against the wall for so long until it gets soft enough to believe and say anything?

Not suggesting either. You cannot fool God. He knows if someone is genuine or not. You cannot force yourself to believe anything. All you can do is read the Words of Jesus understand He is the Way to salvation and accept Him and have eternity with God.



It is God who grants faith, and I'd be superstitious trying to believe on my own accord.

You do believe in God. So you do have faith that God is. Otherwise you would not be jealous of Christians.



What does it mean to "embrace The Love of Truth"? Staring at a crucifix and somehow trying to make myself think this is it, I am "embracing The Love of Truth"?

The Love of the Truth is the Love of the Message of salvation for sinners won through the atoning death of the Word Made Flesh my Messiah Jesus. To believe in Jesus is to embrace the love of The Truth, The Love of God, demonstrated by the life and words of Jesus.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

It has come to my attention that only atheists are allowed to preach in the religion forum.
How?
To say that religions are not allowed to preach is the same thing as saying only atheists are allowed to preach.

We would like atheists to simply be a person that is absolutely certain there is no such thing as any God or gods, and defend this notion logically. Unfortunately that atheists are typically not simply that, but fanatical control freaks that impose atheism left and right. Why not just accept the fact that you are fanatics. You do not ONLY have this belief as the definition states.

You are not:
A person that simply has a belief, and is defending it.

You are:
You are fanatics that impose other proponents to atheism such as the belief that atheism is the logical belief system while religion is not. That has nothing to do with atheism defined. That is self-righteous fanaticism. Atheism defined is no more and no less than what the definition states. It is not a logical belief system, it is not science, it is not controlling people's right to preach. You claim you don't hate religion, because you do not believe in it and could care less about it. The amount of bull in that is obvious because if you truly lived by that you would care less if people preached or not. You are typical atheist fanatics. Accept it.

cool skill,

You seem to be focused on solely inflamatory acusations.

What would you have people be, and why?

Please be positive.

Adstar,


Yes way. There is your problem, you cannot accept the Love of the Truth. you don't believe in the grace of God through Jesus. Do you think God will consider your prayers when you through His loving gift back in His face like that?

No, I don't believe in the grace through Jesus.
I cannot make myself believe that.


You have no right to hate Christians. You have no right to hate God.

Do you think I don't know that? Knowing that I have no right to hate Christians is what fills me with such anger, resentment and hate.


Not suggesting either. You cannot fool God. He knows if someone is genuine or not. You cannot force yourself to believe anything. All you can do is read the Words of Jesus understand He is the Way to salvation and accept Him and have eternity with God.

Yes, and it doesn't happen for me.


You do believe in God. So you do have faith that God is.

But it is not enough and it doesn't get me anywhere.


The Love of the Truth is the Love of the Message of salvation for sinners won through the atoning death of the Word Made Flesh my Messiah Jesus. To believe in Jesus is to embrace the love of The Truth, The Love of God, demonstrated by the life and words of Jesus.

I cannot make myself love this.

stretched,


“Why not? It's mere observation. Evolution theory preaches survival of the fittest, natural selection -- so how can we seriously oppose any non-universalist view if we accept evolution?!”

* Not to be taken seriously to the extant that it causes discomfort.

?!

You want a *fight* for survival that is *comfortable*?


* Do you think Adam suffered no psychological trauma when god asked him to sacrifice his son, Abel? God knew all along he was only pulling a bluff. Are you saying that under the right circumstances atrocities like killing infants is acceptable?

You mean Abraham intending to sacrifice Isaac?

Whom was the test intended for -- did God just play a trick on Abraham, or was there a purpose to this test?


* On what basis can you “hate” Christians?

On the basis of envy.


* My statement is in the context of the Biblical god. Do you see the Bible (OT and NT) as a message of love?

I do not know where you get the idea from that the Bible is the "message of love". It is the hippy way to see it, but it's not biblical.


"And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.'" (Numbers 25:3-4)

* This was the punishment for worshipping other gods. This god is one loving MFer!

So? You don't tolerate rats in your house either.
And you deem yourself to be loving?


* If by “they” you mean Christians, I agree. But I know enough, and have enough confidence in my integrity to DISCARD what I consider absurd. Remember, we are not talking “spirituality” here. We are talking Christian god stuff.

Well, if God has not blessed you with understanding of Him, then you can indeed talk shit too, like me.

But keep in mind that we are not blessed with understanding, while some people are.


* You are confusing two distinct issues. Essentially anything under the sun, including Christianity, is not worth the energy of “hatred”.

Don't be silly. It's not about what is worth of hatred. Humans hate.


In my opinion what you are searching for lies in a totally opposite direction. It lies within yourself, not with some god out yonder. The pity I display is my compassion regarding the pain Christian doctrine causes some folk regarding their own honesty, integrity and self esteem.

Looking for God somewhere outside of yourself, disconnected of yourself, is idolatry. Idolatry is the best way to lose your honesty, integrity and self-esteem.

Water, it appears to me that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. You should calm down and relax. Oh wait, you are going to argue about that too :rolleyes:

I do not want to be part of the "atheist congregation". They either argue against some strawmen gods and blame other people for their disbelief in God, or they know God, but don't care.
Neither of these is a viable option for me.

You might as well join them anyway. You come from pretty much the same perspective towards God.
Look at the following atheist comment:

Discarding organised religion is the first step in self-acceptance and self-love.

As you can see, you have to accpet and abide by your true atheist nature. Soon you will be a good little atheist just like all the rest.


cool skill,

You seem to be focused on solely inflamatory acusations.

What would you have people be, and why?

Please be positive.
I'm not focused on inflamitory anything.
I'm stating it how I see it.
If you are going to be self-righteous, fanatical, and imposing, stop claiming that you are not self-righteous, fanatical, and imposing.

How many times have I seen atheists say something like "I'm not fanatical or self-righteous, and I really don't want to impose anything. I just simply . . . blah blah blah impose impose impose."

"I don't want there to be preaching" - Atheist imposition.
"Atheism is rational, and religion is not" - Atheist self righteous fanaticism.
"Religion does not belong on a science forum." - Atheist imposition. Self righteous fanaticism.
"We are not fanatical. Atheism is the lack of belief, and nothing more." - So act like it, and stop yammering your extra fanatical ideas about atheism other than that.
"Christians are gullible and naive." - Self righteous fanaticism that has nothing to do with the definition of atheism.
"As I have stated before, Atheists never try to impose their beliefs on Christians. It takes time for a Christian to see the error of his ways" - Super atheist conversion tactic.


AN ATHEIST PREACHER AT WORK:
You’ve come a long way. Nothing wrong with expressing your feelings. But if you love and accept yourself enough, you need never hate anybody else. Discarding organised religion is the first step in self-acceptance and self-love. Any religion or doctrine that preaches the redemption of only a select few, and talks in terms of eternal damnation does not deserve to be taken seriously.

In a nutshell to summarise the morality of Christianity, whatever the circumstances from a historical perspective, the atrocities committed (as described) by the Christian god in the OT is unforgivable and unnecessary. Christian doctrine states that this god is also Jesus.

Therefore, whatever this religion stands for, or says it stand for, is not what I stand for. You cannot love with the one hand and kill with the other. DISCARD. So maybe one should rather feel sorry for Christians who are happy, or blind enough to worship a god of this nature.

water: Medicine Woman, Atheists who once thought to be Christians, now resent Christians because supposedly, Christians have lied to them about God and Jesus.
*************
M*W: You're so full of yourself! We don't "resent Chrsitians," we pity their ignorance. A true Atheist wouldn't fret over what was allegedly said by anyone else's God or Jesus. We don't care what they believe, because to us, they're doing the talking for their mythological beings.
*************
water: Congratulations, you have hit a new low.
*************
M*W: "A new low," to you, maybe, because like Joeman says, you "argue for the sake of arguing." You don't know what you believe. You posts are in direct contradiction to your other posts. You admonished me for not believing in God and Jesus, but you turn around and say, "No, I don't believe in the grace through Jesus. I cannot make myself believe that." And you pulled this one out of your ass, "Atheists who once thought to be Christians, now resent Christians because supposedly, Christians have lied to them about God and Jesus."

You know, we Atheists don't resent Christians for the lies they believe. We don't believe anything Christians say. They've lost their credibility to mythological beings.

You said, "Medicine Woman, I can now understand how some people (people like you) can invite others to become fundamentalists."

I have never "invited" anyone to become a fundamentalist. I don't consider myself a "fundamentalist." That word is reserved for Christians. Atheists have an open mind. Fundamentalists do not.

water, you argue with everybody and change your beliefs at random. You're a fence-sitter, so you can argue on the opposite side of whomever is posting. Get a life!








Head in the sand, that's right!


Medicine Woman, I can now understand how some people (people like you) can invite others to become fundamentalists.


* * *

Hapsburg,




Two fallacies in one: a strawman and a selective observation.
1. You believe that whatever is done in God's name, is indeed so ordained and condoned by God. Which is a strawman argument.
2. You ignore the good works Christians have done. Which is selective observation.


* * *


Joeman,




That is impossible to prove, without God giving confirmation about hating me.[/QUOTE]

M*W: You're so full of yourself! We don't "resent Chrsitians," we pity their ignorance. A true Atheist wouldn't fret over what was allegedly said by anyone else's God or Jesus. We don't care what they believe, because to us, they're doing the talking for their mythological beings.
*************
Atheists do resent Christians. They hate it whenever religion is mentioned in movies. The get upset when they drive by churches.
Atheists do not have an open mind. Your behavior is not a defense of an atheist belief. It is fanatical imposition of your desire to undermine religion, and worship atheism as if it is the more than just a belief system. As if it is in any way superior. You claim that you are not resentful or fanaical. So what is the point of your subjective suprmicism of atheism?

ahhhh the discussions of the religious,,,, and then there is Water.

Hating Christians is your problem, yours alone, you may even become better at it if you are willing to practice, practice, practice.

Atheists do not have an open mind. Your behavior is not a defense of an atheist belief. It is fanatical imposition of your desire to undermine religion, and worship atheism as if it is the more than just a belief system. As if it is in any way superior. You claim that you are not resentful or fanaical. So what is the point of your subjective suprmicism of atheism?

Without a doubt, there are atheists who are not open-minded or are resentful of christians or christianity in general. There are even those that are resentful of religion in general. But by and large, atheists are very open-minded and not resentful or hateful. In fact, you probably know many atheists personally without even knowing that they are atheistic as many simply keep it to themselves. Some even "go through the motions" of being theistic in the company of Christians.

The reason is probably two-fold: atheists realize that atheism isn't well-received among most and wish to avoid the stigma; and atheists simply don't wish to offend Christians or are sympathetic to their beliefs. I've felt myself to be in both categories for different reasons even recently.

However, atheists also desire to discuss their worldviews among each other and christians. An internet forum such as this provides a wonderful mechanism to do so -relative anonymity; the ability to read or not read the views of others; the ability to vent frustrations; etc.

I will admit to being frustrated with christians on many occasions, but not because they were christian, but because they were either pushy with their religion; condescending; preachy; hypicritical; etc. I have several friends who are very religious and know that I'm an agnostic-atheist and we have fantastic discussions. In fact, one of my christian friends is always interested in my perspective with regard to biblical mythology, ancient Near East history, or even contemporary issues that affect christians. And in each conversation I'm sympathetic to his religion and respectful and wouldn't use terms like "biblical mythology."

But I've come to understand that the typical christian wants atheists to be dogmatic in their atheism, pushy, resentful, hateful, and generally angry (a mirror of themselves in their christianity?), but this simply isn't the case. It might be the case here, in sciforums, but not with atheists in general.

But I'm most amused by the comment that "atheists do not have an open mind." A true, free-thinking atheist has a very open mind, which is why they aren't blinded by cultural indoctrination and taboos -able to think for themselves and examine world cultures other than just christianity. Most atheists I know recognize that all religions are equally valid and don't subscribe to the notion that one is superior. Of course, these atheists are anthropologists and the like...

I say you and I are both atheists. I just believe in one less god than you do. Once you figure out why you reject all other gods, you'll understand why I reject yours. I'm paraphrasing Stephen Roberts here, by the way.

"But by and large, atheists are very open-minded and not resentful or hateful."
********************
Wrong. Not on this planet. It's a generalization that cannot be proven.


"I will admit to being frustrated with christians on many occasions, but not because they were christian, but because they were either pushy with their religion; condescending; preachy; hypicritical; etc."
********************
Get over it. Atheism is exactly the same thing.


"I'm an agnostic-atheist and we have fantastic discussions."
********************
Wrong there is no such thing. That is a contradiction. I suppose you like many atheists are completely unaware what atheism even means.


"In fact, one of my christian friends is always interested in my perspective with regard to biblical mythology
And in each conversation I'm sympathetic to his religion and respectful and wouldn't use terms like "biblical mythology.""
********************
Of course. That's a typical atheist loaded statement. There is no point to use it in front of Christians. There is no point to use it anywhere. It's loaded fanaticism. There is no such thing as biblical mythology. It's a loaded terminology created for the purpose of fanatically imposing atheist beliefs. Nothing more.


"christian wants atheists to be dogmatic in their atheism, pushy, resentful, hateful, and generally angry (a mirror of themselves in their christianity?), but this simply isn't the case."
********************
Wrong. Nobody wants atheist to be that way, and that simply is the case. You are only making statements you cannot prove.


"But I'm most amused by the comment that "atheists do not have an open mind."
********************
good because they don't. You cannot prove otherwise. And the reason you are defending against comment is?


which is why they aren't blinded by cultural indoctrination and taboos
********************
Utterly self-righteous typical fanatical garbage that cannot be waaaay further from the truth. Even you are a typical example of a person that appears to be blinded by the typical atheist cultural indoctrination and taboos that atheist relish in so much to make them feel better about themselves.
Thus far there have been more atheists on this forum splurging out links to atheist indoctrined websites than all the other religions put together spouting their doctrine.


I'm paraphrasing Stephen Roberts here, by the way.
********************
What is the point of paraphrasing somebody that divulges incorrect statements?

I hate Christians because God loves them more than me.



Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Matthew 10:
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

@Cool Skill: Such anger and detestment. That certainly isn't within the spirit of the teachings of Jesus (assuming he is real).

With regard to the assumption that atheists are more often than not angry and hateful toward christians and that they are not open-minded, I must remind you that this is your claim. I doubt it to be true and thus the burden of "proof" is upon you. Perhaps you would be willing to offer some empirical data that demonstrates your claim.

With regard to my comment of being an "agnostic-atheist," you betray your true ignorance and bias when it comes to your cult. The various cults of christianity seem to promote misinformation about non-believers among their members, so the fault is likely not your own. "Agnostic" describes a condition which is beyond the material, observable and testable universe is unknown and unknowable. "Atheist" is quite literally one who denies or disbelieves the existance of a god.

I hold that the supernatural and metaphysical mumbo-jumbo of the world's religions are not observable or testable and because of this lack of observation and empirical evidence, as well as other logical reasons, I believe that the various gods of human cultures do not actually exist. I fail to see how the former, an adjective, contradicts the latter, a noun. It's clear which of us is truly ignorant with regard to atheism.

I also fail to see how the term "biblical mythology" can be considered "loaded fanaticism." The bible is clearly mythology. That doesn't de-value it as a wonderful work of literature and source of information and insight into the early historical cultures. But there are clear mythological themes within the bible that existed in other literature of earlier cultures than those responsible for the authorship of the bible. That is, perhaps, another thread, however.

Your "open-minded" criticisms are the most ironic, though. It is fascinating to see someone so biased accuse those that refuse to see their point as close-minded or "blinded." Because I refuse to accept what I view as nonsense and superstition (or "mumbo-jumbo" as I noted above), I'm automatically wrong. What about the beliefs of Hatians who subscribe to the practice of Voo Doo or Santaria? What of the Fang in Gabon, Africa who believe that witches ride banana leaves in the middle of the night and abduct people? Or the Azande who believe that there is a substance called mangu inside witches and healers? I'm curious, are they more or less right than I?

But I'm most curious how you can call free-thinking people, who refuse to subscribe to cultural dogma that makes no logical sense, as not being open minded. Surely it is the person who can evaluate the logical merits of an idea and choose to believe or disbelieve based on the amount of empirical evidence that is open-minded; and the one who simply accepts an idea on faith, devoting one's life to illogical doctrine without a shred of evidence, all the while faulting those who don't believe in their cult that is close-minded.

You speak of atheists (and myself in particular) as being "utterly self-righteous" and "fanatical," but it is you, sir (or ma'am), that fits that description. You step in and make the claim that atheists are angry and hateful without a shred of supporting evidence or citing any literature and expect us to all bend over and think you to be enlightened. You speak of "atheist cultural indoctrination and taboos," undoubtedly from a cult of christianity that picks and chooses which parts of its texts are valid based on the superstitions and beliefs of the cult hierarchy.

Indeed, there have been a significant number of atheists speaking out in this forum, but the correlation is that this is a "science" message board, where free-thinkers and open-minded people come together to discuss and debate. One should expect more atheists than theists in a science-minded site. Educations in science often provide clarity and critical thinking skills that create free-thought -free of the cutlural indoctrination and brainwashing of dominating religions like chrisitanity. Not that I'm suggesting that all or even most people educated in the sciences become atheists or question their religions. They may or may not.

But the one thing that is clear in your anger and self-righteous position is that it is you that resent atheists.

Personally, I'm a proponent of atheist activism. I think atheists should come together, organize, and begin counter-"prostelyzing" in places like schools. I believe we should stand on public sidewalks outside of schools and pass out atheistic texts and literature, particularly on the days that christians are passing out little orange New Testaments. I think we can probably show up with a couple cases of Coca-Cola and offer to exchange a soda for a NT, which we can promptly drop in the recycle bin at the county landfill later that night.

You see, I am an angry atheist. I'm pissed at religious nutters that believe they have the monopoly on righteousness and morality in spite of the fact that it is usually they that fuck things up in this world: Slavery, war, creationist bullshit, faith-healing, bigotry, sexism and gender discrimination, hate-crimes, racism, terrorism, jihads, fatwahs, etc. I'm tolerant with any person of any religion until they begin affecting the freedoms and liberties of others; or until they begin talking their self-righteous bullshit and how they are right and the nation was built on their bullshit.

I don't get pissed when I pass a church. I don't get upset when I hear a religious comment in movie or even on TV. Hell, I don't even mind when christians try to prostelyze me as long as they can accept a polite "no, thank you." I'm even willing to engage such christians in casual conversations about their beliefs and my own. I only get angry with religious nutters when they start acting like you, cool skill: generalizing and stereotyping those that believe different, shouting irrational criticisms without supporting evidence.

I can accept we believe differently. I can't accept that you have to be rude about it.

Such anger and detestment. That certainly isn't within the spirit of the teachings of Jesus (assuming he is real).
********************
Anger and detestment? Um. Are you smoking some serious crack? You're a crack addict right? Popping pills or some kind of hallucinogen? You must be if you interpret normal discussion as anger and detestment. Get a grip on reality. Or maybe you need a new dose of your antipsychotic? :rolleyes:

Tut-tut. WWJD?

“With regard to the assumption that atheists are more often than not angry and hateful toward christians and that they are not open-minded, I must remind you that this is your claim. I doubt it to be true and thus the burden of "proof" is upon you. Perhaps you would be willing to offer some empirical data that demonstrates your claim.“
****************************************
Wrong. You made the claim that they are open minded or somebody did. Burden of proof of what? That you are closed minded? Just look in the mirror.


“With regard to my comment of being an "agnostic-atheist," you betray your true ignorance and bias when it comes to your cult. “
****************************************
Loaded. Typical. Cult? Will you ever get real? I guess you can’t think of a more loaded term? How sad.
You obviously have no concept of what atheism or agnosticism is.
Typical blinded atheist fanatic.


“I believe that the various gods of human cultures do not actually exist.”
****************************************
Really?


“It's clear which of us is truly ignorant with regard to atheism.”
****************************************
Yes you.


“I also fail to see how the term "biblical mythology" can be considered "loaded fanaticism." “
****************************************
Which makes you all the more self-righteously fanatical.


“The bible is clearly mythology. That doesn't de-value it as a wonderful work of literature and source of information and insight into the early historical cultures. But there are clear mythological themes within the bible that existed in other literature of earlier cultures than those responsible for the authorship of the bible. That is, perhaps, another thread, however.”
****************************************
Who cares. You clearly do not recognize a completely loaded statement. It could be the most mythological book on the planet, it does not make the statement any less loaded. Next time, try axing the ‘mythology’ part. Simply biblical would fit your purpose just fine. Unless of course your purpose really is to be loaded.


“Your "open-minded" criticisms are the most ironic, though. It is fascinating to see someone so biased accuse those that refuse to see their point as close-minded or "blinded." “
****************************************
You mean like yourself?


“Because I refuse to accept what I view as nonsense and superstition (or "mumbo-jumbo" as I noted above), I'm automatically wrong. “
****************************************
Nobody made that claim as to why you are wrong. Go back to kindergarten and learn some reading comprehension skills.


“But I'm most curious how you can call free-thinking people, who refuse to subscribe to cultural dogma that makes no logical sense, as not being open minded. “
****************************************
Wrong. Typical self-righteous fanatical garbage. Thanks for proving my point though. Is there a reason why you would be perpetuating everything that the self righteous fanatic atheist believes in?


“Surely it is the person who can evaluate the logical merits of an idea and choose to believe or disbelieve based on the amount of empirical evidence that is open-minded; and the one who simply accepts an idea on faith, devoting one's life to illogical doctrine without a shred of evidence”
****************************************
Do you actually expect me to respond to this completely self righteous flimsy bit of pointlessness?
Or do you actually believe this is not typical self righteous lunacy that is far from the atheism by definition?


“You speak of atheists (and myself in particular) as being "utterly self-righteous" and "fanatical," but it is you, sir (or ma'am), that fits that description. You step in and make the claim that atheists are angry and hateful without a shred of supporting evidence or citing any literature”
****************************************
Here’s some literature: ”Surely it is the person who can evaluate the logical merits of an idea and choose to believe or disbelieve based on the amount of empirical evidence that is open-minded; and the one who simply accepts an idea on faith, devoting one's life to illogical doctrine without a shred of evidence”

That is your self righteous bore is it not? I don’t think you can get any more self righteous than that. Happy?


“You speak of "atheist cultural indoctrination and taboos," undoubtedly from a cult of christianity that picks and chooses which parts of its texts are valid based on the superstitions and beliefs of the cult hierarchy.”
****************************************
Wrong. Loaded. Self righteous.


“Indeed, there have been a significant number of atheists speaking out in this forum, but the correlation is that this is a "science" message board, where free-thinkers and open-minded people come together to discuss and debate. One should expect more atheists than theists in a science-minded site. Educations in science often provide clarity and critical thinking skills that create free-thought -free of the cutlural indoctrination and brainwashing of dominating religions like chrisitanity.”
****************************************
Even more self righteous than before. You obviously have no clue what the definition of atheism is. I doubt you can get anymore self righteous than that.
How about this: Atheism has nothing to do with beliefs. Screw definitions. Atheism is logic and science. That is the new definition of atheism. Congratulations, you have created a brand new definition for atheism. Now be a good sheep and take your new definition back to your fanatical fantasy world.


“But the one thing that is clear in your anger and self-righteous position is that it is you that resent atheists.”
****************************************
Wow you really are a genius. You have me all figured out.


“Personally, I'm a proponent of atheist activism.“
****************************************
What a surprise. Another fanatic. Who would have ever guessed.


“which we can promptly drop in the recycle bin at the county landfill later that night.”
****************************************
What are you waiting for? I’m sure there are tons of excited fanatics eager to join your fanatical hatred for the Holy Bible.


“You see, I am an angry atheist. I'm pissed at religious nutters that believe they have the monopoly on righteousness and morality in spite of the fact that it is usually they that fuck things up in this world: Slavery, war, creationist bullshit, faith-healing, bigotry, sexism and gender discrimination, hate-crimes, racism, terrorism, jihads, fatwahs, etc. I'm tolerant with any person of any religion until they begin affecting the freedoms and liberties of others; or until they begin talking their self-righteous bullshit and how they are right and the nation was built on their bullshit.”
****************************************
Can we say psycho?


“I don't get pissed when I pass a church. I don't get upset when I hear a religious comment in movie or even on TV.”
****************************************
Yes you do. You’re a psycho self-righteous fanatic.


“generalizing and stereotyping those that believe different, shouting irrational criticisms without supporting evidence. “
****************************************
Well I try to do my part, but I leave most of that to you fanatical atheists.


“I can accept we believe differently. I can't accept that you have to be a dick about it. So, fuck you very much.”
****************************************
And this concludes my logical systematical proof that atheists really are blind self righteous psycho fanatics.
I think we can now all be in agreement. Another atheist pisses all over himself. How’s that for proof?

“I can accept we believe differently. I can't accept that you have to be a dick about it. So, fuck you very much.”
****************************************
And this concludes my logical systematical proof that atheists really are blind self righteous psycho fanatics.
I think we can now all be in agreement. Another atheist pisses all over himself. How’s that for proof? but he was replying to your self righteous, fanatical and rude, remarks.
you are the rude one, it was only a matter of time before someone retaliated.
if you were a little more civil and wanted an actual discussion, it may have been different, but quite clearly you did not.

Quote w:
“You want a *fight* for survival that is *comfortable*?”

* `K, wires crossed here. I meant religious or superstitious influences.

Quote w:
“You mean Abraham intending to sacrifice Isaac?
Whom was the test intended for -- did God just play a trick on Abraham, or was there a purpose to this test?”

:eek: * Yes, yes Abraham. I`m trying to multitask here. Heh. The apparent purpose of this test was to TEST Abrahams faith in, and love for his god. Nevertheless an absolutely cruel test.

Quote w:
“On the basis of envy.”

* O.K. I hear you clearly. Maybe I am trying to indicate that there are alternate routes available for serenity.

Quote w:
“I do not know where you get the idea from that the Bible is the "message of love". It is the hippy way to see it, but it's not biblical.”

* Hmmm. This is the fundamental message as I understand it – “god so much loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that man may have everlasting life.” I would say this sounds like a message of love? All Christians speak of gods love, are they misguided. You feel you have a better grip on the Bibles message?

Quote w:
So? You don't tolerate rats in your house either.
And you deem yourself to be loving?

* I am not the one claiming to be the alpha and omega. I reiterate : 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun,” is not a LOVING statement. Period.

Quote w:
“Well, if God has not blessed you with understanding of Him, then you can indeed talk shit too, like me.”

* But water, you are being presumptuous. What makes you think that I do not have an understanding of what I consider to be “god’? And I don’t think we are talking shit. We are expressing opinions. I reiterate. The Christian god does not hold the monopoly on truth.

Quote w:
“But keep in mind that we are not blessed with understanding, while some people are.”

* Yes, as we hear Jenyar and okinrus speak with great conviction. Which is great. I can speak with great conviction on what I understand about god too. Break out of the Christian box.

Quote w:
“Don't be silly. It's not about what is worth of hatred. Humans hate.”

* It is exactly as I said. Not worth the energy. Once you have seen through the haze, and things become clearer. Not all humans hate.

Quote w:
“Looking for God somewhere outside of yourself, disconnected of yourself, is idolatry. Idolatry is the best way to lose your honesty, integrity and self-esteem.”

* Idolatry only has value in the eyes of Christianity and the faithfull. And yes you seem to understand what I am saying. God is not in the church.

Allcare.

water

No, I don't believe in the grace through Jesus.
I cannot make myself believe that.

You poor miserable bastard. What kind of peace can you ever have for the rest of your life. You envious hate filled heart will be a millstone around your neck till the day you die, and even in death you will find no peace.

If i where you i would keep an close eye on your health, I wish for you long life. The more time you have in this existence the more time you have for a miracle to happen in your heart.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

You poor miserable bastard. What kind of peace can you ever have for the rest of your life. You envious hate filled heart will be a millstone around your neck till the day you die, and even in death you will find no peace.
I hope this is the loving response she was waiting for to move her towards faith. Jesus would have offered to carry that millstone for her, for then she would experience grace and be able to believe in it.

stretched,


“You want a *fight* for survival that is *comfortable*?”

* `K, wires crossed here. I meant religious or superstitious influences.

And? They ought to be "comfortable", according to you, Oprah?


* Yes, yes Abraham. I`m trying to multitask here. Heh. The apparent purpose of this test was to TEST Abrahams faith in, and love for his god. Nevertheless an absolutely cruel test.

Total miss.
God, in His omniscience, knew everything anyway. But it was Abraham who didn't know it, and to make Abraham sure, God did a little test.
People are tested for their own sake, not for God's.


* Hmmm. This is the fundamental message as I understand it – “god so much loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that man may have everlasting life.” I would say this sounds like a message of love? All Christians speak of gods love, are they misguided. You feel you have a better grip on the Bibles message?

It was particularly for such purposes that I have started this thread:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=44756


* I am not the one claiming to be the alpha and omega. I reiterate : 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun,” is not a LOVING statement. Period.

And? You think God ought to pal around with people, and be like one giant Oprah?


* But water, you are being presumptuous. What makes you think that I do not have an understanding of what I consider to be “god’?

I take that if you would have been granted understanding, you would not be so negatively biased.
But if you have indeed been granted understanding, if God has revealed Himself to you, and yet you oppose Him, then woe is you.


And I don’t think we are talking shit. We are expressing opinions.

Yes, and opinions guide our lives. They are everyhting but harmless. A life can be wasted because of a shitty opinion.


The Christian god does not hold the monopoly on truth.

Do you know this for a fact? Have you spoken to Him?


“But keep in mind that we are not blessed with understanding, while some people are.”

* Yes, as we hear Jenyar and okinrus speak with great conviction.

That is not the same; "speaking with conviction" doesn't necessarily mean one has understanding and faith.


Break out of the Christian box.

If only you could define it.


“Don't be silly. It's not about what is worth of hatred. Humans hate.”

* It is exactly as I said. Not worth the energy.

Uh. Worth the energy or not, humans hate.


Once you have seen through the haze, and things become clearer. Not all humans hate.

Please don't say you have been born perfect and hateless. Or have you?


* Idolatry only has value in the eyes of Christianity and the faithfull. And yes you seem to understand what I am saying. God is not in the church.

If you think Christianity is about idolatry, then you aren't talking about Christianity.


* * *


Adstar,


You poor miserable bastard. What kind of peace can you ever have for the rest of your life. You envious hate filled heart will be a millstone around your neck till the day you die, and even in death you will find no peace.

Is this your final assessment of me?

Will you now part from me and not persevere with me, not even if I ask you?



* * *

Cool Skill,


Once more tell me to join the atheists, and I will pray to God to smite you with a sign to have for the rest of your life, to remind you of your trying to mislead someone.

Water,

What I understand and view in my own life will obviously be torn apart by people here, but I believe it is God who draws people to himself. You may call this a defining or understanding of God as you view that Christians have. Truth is that Christians seem to only scratch the surface of God's depth. Truth is, God is so mysterious or non-understandable that we can spend an eternity searching the depth that he is and still be left empty. Why does the Lord give and take away? Why does rains fall on the just and unjust alike? How is God a God of mercy and grace, but also of justice also? How can us humans perceive unconditional love anyway? We are conditioned to love when it grants us a selfish accomplishment. We love our girlfriend, boyfriend, spouse, ect. because somewhere in us it completes a part of us or brings comfort to us. So then how can we say to God I love you and have no strings attached? So then we view God in the same way. How can God say to us I love you with no strings attached. Thus the atheists and others have a battleground. God loves you so he can make you live a certain way and act a certain way, ect...

As for prayers being answered. The lord giveth and the lord taketh away. The lord rains on whom he chooses to rain. My little sister who is 10 prayed to God about my parents house selling and she told my mom that God told her it would sell to the second people that see the house. Thus they just put their house on the market and it was sold to the second people that saw the house. It wasn't from any cohearsing of my parents either. They liked the house and put an offer on it. I pray for guidance in my own life for stuff and sometimes have clarity and sometimes don't. Thus is the fallability of human minds.

Cool Skill,

Just to let you know, I whole-heartedly agree with you concerning the overwhelming holier than thou hypocricy spewed by SOME atheists out here and elsewhere....especially concerning the topic of preaching. It's been addressed before...there was an entire thread about it not too long ago. You can't tell them anything...so don't try to be rational or fair or logical or anything like that, cause it's not about that apparently. Please always remember that the reason that atheists are what they are is because they do not desire to know the truth about God. Because I know that if they did want to know, then God would make sure that they did know...after all, that's His law. Seek and find, knock and the door will open. See cool...they're not seeking, and they're not knocking, and until they do, they're screwed and there's not much you or I or anyone can do or say about it. You witness to what you know of God and have experienced with Him and they get angry and defensive because they don't want to know, and so they attack in their oh so tired and lame hypocritical fashion. Don't take it personally.

Sympathetically,

Lori

Right.
I have yet to encounter an atheist simply abides by the atheist definition and defends it.
Unlike these fanatics that go about with their self-righteousness, imposing attitude, rediculous atheist doctrine, complete resentment of religion, and most of all claiming that they are not fanatics that abide by all of those.

cool skill quoted M*W: "You're so full of yourself! We don't "resent Chrsitians," we pity their ignorance. A true Atheist wouldn't fret over what was allegedly said by anyone else's God or Jesus. We don't care what they believe, because to us, they're doing the talking for their mythological beings."

cool skill replied: Atheists do resent Christians. They hate it whenever religion is mentioned in movies. The get upset when they drive by churches. Atheists do not have an open mind. Your behavior is not a defense of an atheist belief. It is fanatical imposition of your desire to undermine religion, and worship atheism as if it is the more than just a belief system. As if it is in any way superior. You claim that you are not resentful or fanaical. So what is the point of your subjective suprmicism of atheism?
*************
M*W: No, you are wrong. Christians resent Atheists! Personally, I don't have a problem with "religion" being mentioned in movies. Movies are a product of man -- not a product of any god. So, movies are nothing more than entertainment.

I never get "upset" when driving by churches. They're everywhere! Why would an Atheist get upset when driving by a church? It just doesn't make any sense. Atheists are not "jealous" of Christians. Far from it!

Atheists DO HAVE an "open-mind." Atheists cannot and will not be controlled by brainwashing tactics.

People consider anything opposing their main beliefs as "fanatical." Atheists are not usually judged to be "fanatical."

Atheists do not care what beliefs are supreme. Atheists have come to "a knowing" in their lives that eliminates any false dogma like Santa Claus, tooth fairy, Easter bunny, the big green elephant that has trashed their living room, etc..

As a rule, Atheists have more biblical knowledge than the most learned Christian. Christians have no "insight" into the reality of false gods. Christians believe exactly what they are told to believe! Atheists simply don't believe what Christians say to be true.

Faith? Christians believe in faith. Atheists believe in truthfulness. They can handle the truth. Christians cannot.

I hate Christians because God loves them more than me.
* * *I am fully aware that this thread will most likely get closed or deleted, due to the hateful nature of it.

I could have made a perfectly sound argument, supported theologically, sociologically, historically etc..


But lets' face it: Religion and God are personal matters. At some point, I got so far as to become full and ill of all those impersonal, objective arguments.

Talking about God isn't something where afterwards, you could nicely sit down and have your lunch in peace. It doesn't work that way, and no amount of mental acrobatics won't make it so.

I hate Christians because God loves them more than me.

Hating Christianity worked very well for me too. Hating Christians seems a bit extreme to me. Those people are just looking out for what they believe to be their best interests. You apparently believe in God and believe that the things the Christians claim about God and being Christian are true, but for some reason you dont want to sign up. Why dont you want to sign up and win Gods favor?

I hated christianity, from the time I was about 5 til I was in my early 20s. I hated the way they condescended to me, and threatened me but more I hated that they seemed to exclude people on this planet that were otherwise completely unaware of their bible and the conditions that needed to be met to make it to heaven. I found I couldnt argue with them without having read their books, and examining their tactics, and so Ive spent all of my life doing just that. The result to this point is that Ive found the bible to be misinterpretted to some degree, incomplete to a large degree, misunderstand in the context that most Christians are very unaware of the actual history of the bible, Jesus, and the evolution of Christianity. The history and events and apparent truths Ive found outside of indoctrination contradict their beliefs and vague practices. In a scientific context, I think Christianity can maybe be compared to alchemy as a valid science, as a valid beliefs system.
At times too, Ive examined other religions and practices such as Buddhism and Hinduism and at the times, I found some great appreciation for some things about them. At present, Ive come to a place where I feel that forming my own opinion about things based on my experience of the world, inside and outside of me, is what's best. I dont believe nor do I believe in a God. Why should I? I figure its my life, why should spend my time mulling over other peoples shit? You can have your beliefs and your justifications for your beliefs and your convictions about having your beliefs but as far as Im concerned if all you can do is believe in what other people tell you is true, youre a sheep. In that context ONLY you are contemptable, and I dislike every last one of you :)

But I dislike you only in the context that you cant be honest and take what is apparent to you and make something out of it without resorting to making it so much about dead peoples trips. But to each their own.

peace


But lets' face it: Religion and God are personal matters.

"Atheists DO HAVE an open-mind"
********************
Bull. Atheists do not have an open mind. Atheists do resent christianity. Who are you trying to fool? Athists are a bunch of brainwashed fanatical psychos. You and that other atheists have proven in your own posts how utterly insane you are.


"Atheists have come to "a knowing" in their lives that eliminates any false dogma"
********************
Wrong. Self-righteous. More proof that you are a fanatic. Thanks.
Your self-righteous statements and resentful attitued towards Christianity and religion are a prime example of your own fanaticism. You're a psycho.

I guess it's true. Atheists are brain dead anti-religious closed-minded rejects. Because I still have yet to encounter an atheist on this forum that isn't a raving fanatical psycho.

Cool skill, the only skill you've demonstrated yourself proficient at is trolling. You accuse me of using "loaded" comments and being "self-righteous," and yet appear to exist in a religiocentric world of hatred and contempt for others. I cannot believe you are truly the bastard you pretend to be or that you are really as ignorant as your words reveal.

That leaves trolling.

An open mind gives all religions and worldviews equal respect, as most atheists do. The "do" because they've no reason to disrespect the beliefs of others. The close-minded respect only those that believe in their own religions and worldviews. That description fits some Christians, particularly the fundamentalists.

Indeed I do use words like "cult" and "mythology" when speaking of religion. Why shouldn't I? They are accurate, after all. This is a "science" forum, not a "christian" one. I don't feel the need to be sensitive to Christian beliefs, but I do feel that criticizing christian beliefs is acceptable here.

That's another mark of open-minded vs. close-minded: the ability to accept criticism. I can accept criticism of atheism and atheists in general and wouldn't need to resort to referring to my critic as a "crack addict" or suggesting that my critic was "psychotic."

From the activist-atheist side of me, let me offer my thanks for helping make the christian position look bad. I hardly had to say a word, you did all the work for me. Hopefully, your fellow-christians aren't too embarassed and realize that you aren't representative of true christianity.
You obviously have no concept of what atheism or agnosticism is.
Typical blinded atheist fanatic.The definitions I used were taken directly from the Oxford English Dictionary. Is there another source, more authoritative that should be used? Perhaps you might enlighten us with your wisdom and educate us all on what it is to be agnostic and atheist. Atheists are brain dead anti-religious closed-minded rejects. Because I still have yet to encounter an atheist on this forum that isn't a raving fanatical psycho.Kettles, pots, and several shades of black come to mind. But, again, it's obvious that you are simply trolling. Atheism is the logical choice for one who is open-minded and logical. Critically reviewing the religions of the world and examing the many beliefs that people have that diverge even within specific religions, it becomes clear that none can provide empirical evidence or tangible proof that there are any gods.

But if you aren't trolling, Cool Skill, why do you fear or resent atheists so much? Why the hostility? What is it that drives you to post in a thread regarding atheism on a science message board in the manner in which you do? Are you are rude and distasteful to all those that don't believe as you do, or just to atheists? Did an atheist steal your wife or girlfriend? Why the anger? What did an atheist do to you?

Come on.... talk to Doctor Phil.

atheists and theists pretty much have the same mind, except that I think atheists are slightly more true to actual experience as evidence for their supported truth, than are theists. That Im aware of, no number of two or more people has ever provided witness to a manifested god appearing before them. not that it matters so much what other people experience its just that id be a bit more open to considering it to be a reality if there was even a tiny consensus claiming first hand experience behind the notion. Deists are hard to argue with now. but even still, a deist to me is someone who might believe in santaclaus too, if one christmas a present was found under the tree that was otherwise unaccounted for. I believe in a greater order or fundamental creative resource, but im still skeptical about there being deities out there. traditionally deities arent shy because theu enjoy the worship thing. And too i consider.. if there is a god, what created god? a god is still a thing, so i think that if there is a god it must be a shy demiurge at best.

Originally Posted by Adstar

You poor miserable bastard. What kind of peace can you ever have for the rest of your life. You envious hate filled heart will be a millstone around your neck till the day you die, and even in death you will find no peace.


Originally Posted by Jenyar

I hope this is the loving response she was waiting for to move her towards faith. Jesus would have offered to carry that millstone for her, for then she would experience grace and be able to believe in it.

Move her towards faith? You think our words can move her towards faith?

It is God that gives understanding not the words of men. God guides the humble But resists the proud.

James 4
6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."

Of all the people in hear who have resisted the Love of the Truth, water is to my mind the most intelligent the most capable the most gifted with wisdom. But it is the wisdom of man. Like most people who have been gifted with such intellectual abilities water suffers from the self delusion that she can figure God out.

Luke 10
21 . In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

water is proud. she had declared the gospel of Jesus (The love Of The Truth) foolishness.

1 Corinthians 1
23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,

But the greatest wisdom an intellectual person can come to is to know that the wisdom of man is foolishness to God. Once they do then they humble themselves and seek God not with the spirit of an inquisitor but with the spirit of a questioner.

1 Corinthians 1
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1 Corinthians 1
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1 Corrinthians 3
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness";

So back to my words to water:

You poor miserable bastard. What kind of peace can you ever have for the rest of your life. You envious hate filled heart will be a millstone around your neck till the day you die, and even in death you will find no peace.

I suppose the "poor miserabl