View Full Version : I am a social person because I am yours


coberst
02-21-07, 07:15 AM
I am a social person because I am yours

“I am a social person because I am no longer mine: because I am yours.”--Freud

One of life’s more urgent problems is learning to set the boundaries of the ego. Such control represents true maturity of character and personality; Sounds simple enough.

Anxiety is the universal response of the organism to danger. For the child, anxiety becomes second nature when there is the slightest hint of separation from or abandonment by the mother.

Freud’s whole psychoanalytic theory of neurosis is basically a study of how children control anxiety. Human reaction to the environment is delayed and controlled by the ego. Unlike all other animals the human can take some time to analyze and choose a response. It is obvious that the first concern for the developing ego is to learn how to control this ever present and overwhelming stimulus-response that can result from anxiety. The ego does this by ‘housing’ this anxiety within the ego, thus, no longer does the human organism respond directly to anxiety but the ego controls the response by ‘taking over’ this anxiety.

A major revision of Freudian theory finds that while the child’s anxiety is based on helplessness; it is not based upon genetic instincts but is based upon the child’s life situation and in his social world.

The restriction of experience is the heaviest price an animal can pay and it is the restriction of experience that the human animal pays to control anxiety. Freud tells us that the ego staves off anxiety “only by putting restrictions on its own organization”.

The egos theoretical limits are limited from the very beginning during interaction with its parents. The mechanisms of defense thus become excellent techniques of self-deception. This is the fateful paradox we call neurosis: The child is given into humanization by giving over the aegis over himself. Freud says for the child “You no longer will have to punish me father; I will punish myself…You can approve of me as you see how well I do as you would wish me to…I am a social person because I am no longer mine; because I am yours.”

Becker says “the conclusion of Freud’s work is that the humanization process itself is the neurosis”.

Did you know that we are all neurotic to one degree or another?

Ideas and quotes from “The Birth and Death of Meaning”—Becker

Neurosis as defined in Wikipedia

The term was coined by the Scottish doctor William Cullen in 1769 to refer to "disorders of sense and motion" caused by a "general affection of the nervous system." For him, it described various nervous disorders and symptoms that could not be explained physiologically. It derives from two Greek words: neuron (nerve) and osis (diseased or abnormal condition). The term was however most influentially defined by Sigmund Freud over a century later.

Neurosis is no longer used as a formal term in modern psychology in English-speaking countries; the American DSM-IV has eliminated the category altogether. This largely reflects a decline in the fashionability of psychoanalysis, and the progressive expurgation of psychoanalytical terminology from the DSM. Those who retain a psychoanalytical perspective, which would include a majority of psychologists in countries such as France, continue to use the term 'neurosis'.


[edit] Psychoanalytical account of neurosis
As an illness, neurosis represents a variety of psychiatric conditions in which emotional distress or unconscious conflict is expressed through various physical, physiological, and mental disturbances, which may include physical symptoms (e.g., hysteria). The definitive symptom is anxieties. Neurotic tendencies are common and may manifest themselves as depression, acute or chronic anxiety, obsessive-compulsive tendencies, phobias, and even personality disorders, such as borderline personality disorder or obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. It has perhaps been most simply defined as a "poor ability to adapt to one's environment, an inability to change one's life patterns, and the inability to develop a richer, more complex, more satisfying personality." [1] Neurosis should not be mistaken for psychosis, which refers to more severe disorders.

The term connotes an actual disorder or disease, but under its general definition, neurosis is a normal human experience, part of the human condition. Most people are affected by neurosis in some form. A psychological problem develops when neuroses begin to interfere with, but not significantly impair, normal functioning, and thus cause the individual anxiety. Frequently, the coping mechanisms enlisted to help "ward off" the anxiety only exacerbate the situation, causing more distress. It has even been defined in terms of this coping strategy, as a "symbolic behavior in defense against excessive psychobiologic pain [which] is self-perpetuating because symbolic satisfactions cannot fulfill real needs." [2]

According to psychoanalytic theory, neuroses may be rooted in ego defense mechanisms, but the two concepts are not synonymous. Defense mechanisms are a normal way of developing and maintaining a consistent sense of self (i.e., an ego), while only those thought and behavior patterns that produce difficulties in living should be termed neuroses.

Search & Destroy
02-21-07, 08:21 AM
The first half coincides w/ buddhism

Prince_James
02-21-07, 08:24 AM
This may explain the slave, but what of the master?

swivel
02-21-07, 11:01 AM
Freud's ideas have been discredited. He was a media-darling and enjoyed promoting his own popularity. He was nasty and rude to anyone who disagreed with him, and his ideas were mostly bunk. Quoting him is not the place to start with an idea of any merit.

Miasma
02-21-07, 01:00 PM
Freud’s whole psychoanalytic theory of neurosis is basically a study of how children control anxiety.[/b] .

you know it's funny
Freud got anxious
Freud met women
they said men made them do sex stuff when they kids - often daddy
Freud believe
Freud write this
ALL OTHER DOCTORS TURNED THEIR BACKS ON HIM
like metaphor, but like literal, they no talk to him

Freud get anxious
he change his mind
he say women wanted daddy to fuck them

this is the kind of gymnastics we can end up doing if anxioux and not admit it
funny though
it was men who made Freud anxious
not the ones who could be or were mothers

Daddy scared Freud
Freud blinked first.

he stopped listening to mommy

darksidZz
02-21-07, 02:42 PM
Well I happen to think Freud is a genius. The problem here is that you don't have real first hand experience at what Psychoanalysis is capable of, I however do. A good therapist using this technique will bring to the forefront of your mind whatever is unconsiously motivating you to feel a certain way. For an example my hatred for my father... it was during a session that I was informed "and why do you hate your father, don't you realize your mother isn't angry, arguing with him, just listening to his yelling. Don't you see something wrong there?" to which I was like "What, are you fucking kidding lady, my dads a horrible mean person." then she was like "Are you sure? Think about what your mothers doing, isn't that even more terrible. She's letting him yell at her, what's worse she's letting him do it in front of you. She's being passive aggressive Sam." and I was like "What the hell are you talking about?" She was like "Sam, by not yelling or arguing she's making the situation turn to her favour. Your father turns from being her husband and a human-being into a monster that yells and hurts you all."

I was like holy shit, she's right. So by not reacting in a healthy way my mother was being passive, but she wasn't really... she was aggressively attacking him by turning his conversation around so that it seemed like he was the only problem. Kinda complicated but when I realized that and it came out from my unconsious mind the feelings I had about wanting to kill my father or hurt him dissappeared. I still cannot stand being near him for long, but I don't hold such hatred for the man either. My mother could've/should've yelled back, argued, but she chose to make things worse by not.

Roman
02-21-07, 04:21 PM
This may explain the slave, but what of the master?

Define what you mean by slave and master, because right now I'm thinking of a captured Gaul being flogged by brutal centurion, in which case, neither are really explained by coberst's post.

TimeTraveler
02-21-07, 07:10 PM
I am a social person because I am yours

“I am a social person because I am no longer mine: because I am yours.”--Freud

One of life’s more urgent problems is learning to set the boundaries of the ego. Such control represents true maturity of character and personality; Sounds simple enough.

Anxiety is the universal response of the organism to danger. For the child, anxiety becomes second nature when there is the slightest hint of separation from or abandonment by the mother.

Freud’s whole psychoanalytic theory of neurosis is basically a study of how children control anxiety. Human reaction to the environment is delayed and controlled by the ego. Unlike all other animals the human can take some time to analyze and choose a response. It is obvious that the first concern for the developing ego is to learn how to control this ever present and overwhelming stimulus-response that can result from anxiety. The ego does this by ‘housing’ this anxiety within the ego, thus, no longer does the human organism respond directly to anxiety but the ego controls the response by ‘taking over’ this anxiety.

A major revision of Freudian theory finds that while the child’s anxiety is based on helplessness; it is not based upon genetic instincts but is based upon the child’s life situation and in his social world.

The restriction of experience is the heaviest price an animal can pay and it is the restriction of experience that the human animal pays to control anxiety. Freud tells us that the ego staves off anxiety “only by putting restrictions on its own organization”.

The egos theoretical limits are limited from the very beginning during interaction with its parents. The mechanisms of defense thus become excellent techniques of self-deception. This is the fateful paradox we call neurosis: The child is given into humanization by giving over the aegis over himself. Freud says for the child “You no longer will have to punish me father; I will punish myself…You can approve of me as you see how well I do as you would wish me to…I am a social person because I am no longer mine; because I am yours.”

Becker says “the conclusion of Freud’s work is that the humanization process itself is the neurosis”.

Did you know that we are all neurotic to one degree or another?

Ideas and quotes from “The Birth and Death of Meaning”—Becker

Neurosis as defined in Wikipedia

The term was coined by the Scottish doctor William Cullen in 1769 to refer to "disorders of sense and motion" caused by a "general affection of the nervous system." For him, it described various nervous disorders and symptoms that could not be explained physiologically. It derives from two Greek words: neuron (nerve) and osis (diseased or abnormal condition). The term was however most influentially defined by Sigmund Freud over a century later.

Neurosis is no longer used as a formal term in modern psychology in English-speaking countries; the American DSM-IV has eliminated the category altogether. This largely reflects a decline in the fashionability of psychoanalysis, and the progressive expurgation of psychoanalytical terminology from the DSM. Those who retain a psychoanalytical perspective, which would include a majority of psychologists in countries such as France, continue to use the term 'neurosis'.


[edit] Psychoanalytical account of neurosis
As an illness, neurosis represents a variety of psychiatric conditions in which emotional distress or unconscious conflict is expressed through various physical, physiological, and mental disturbances, which may include physical symptoms (e.g., hysteria). The definitive symptom is anxieties. Neurotic tendencies are common and may manifest themselves as depression, acute or chronic anxiety, obsessive-compulsive tendencies, phobias, and even personality disorders, such as borderline personality disorder or obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. It has perhaps been most simply defined as a "poor ability to adapt to one's environment, an inability to change one's life patterns, and the inability to develop a richer, more complex, more satisfying personality." [1] Neurosis should not be mistaken for psychosis, which refers to more severe disorders.

The term connotes an actual disorder or disease, but under its general definition, neurosis is a normal human experience, part of the human condition. Most people are affected by neurosis in some form. A psychological problem develops when neuroses begin to interfere with, but not significantly impair, normal functioning, and thus cause the individual anxiety. Frequently, the coping mechanisms enlisted to help "ward off" the anxiety only exacerbate the situation, causing more distress. It has even been defined in terms of this coping strategy, as a "symbolic behavior in defense against excessive psychobiologic pain [which] is self-perpetuating because symbolic satisfactions cannot fulfill real needs." [2]

According to psychoanalytic theory, neuroses may be rooted in ego defense mechanisms, but the two concepts are not synonymous. Defense mechanisms are a normal way of developing and maintaining a consistent sense of self (i.e., an ego), while only those thought and behavior patterns that produce difficulties in living should be termed neuroses.

That makes a lot of sense.
Maybe thats why I don't like being social, I'm too much of a control freak to give myself to anyone else.

nicholas1M7
02-21-07, 08:16 PM
TimeTraveler,

What do you mean by "control freak"? This should be interesting as it would explain your differing views on rationality versus will in one of my previous threads. You are a calculating individual I suspect. Your need for certainty is dependent on the predictibility of your actions.