Did anyone see that speech on MSNBC AND CNN:eek:

That man has been falsely accused by the cruel media.The man is one of the most articulate,intelligent,humbled preachers i ever heard speak.He is forceful like many of those african american male preachers,i see were Barack gets his powerful speeches from,the man is logical,the man is the truth.Yeshe got carried away with the godayum america,however its delusional to consider this man ignorant or stupid.This man is a powerful speaker.

PREACH ON REVEREND.I MAY NOT BE RELIGIOUS HOWEVER YOUR VIEWS ARE ON POINT.:D

Reverend Wright

Omggggggggggggggggggggggggg


I Served 6 Years In The Military.


Does That Make Me Unpatriotic??


How Many Did Cheney Serve??



The Whole Fucking Place Went Into Fire.

Omgggg

The whole speech was saying different isn't deficient. OK, I agree.

Now, imagine you have a business that performs a certain task, or imagine you're looking to purchase a product or service. Is "difference" an issue? I say, yes.

In a free market, for instance: Ball club A. thinks that white people are the best basketball players.
Ball club B. thinks that black people are the best basketball players.
Ball club c. says it doesn't matter who's the better and splits the team 50/50.

As either the owner of these organizations or the consumers looking to purchase one, do you want the freedom to make an educated decision?
Or do you want a third party to storm in and MAKE you purchase which ever type of team they see fit?
And remember, you need to win games to put food on the table.

So IMO it sounds good in a speech but application is the problem.

its all bunch of yapping...with no practical application

I made a thread about his outstanding speech.

The Black community needs more people like Jeremiah Wright.

My comments were about the speech in Detroit.

Yet if a white supremest talks like that the media as well as the public would be in an uproar against them.:shrug:

If he's so great, why has Obama "disowned" him?

Yet if a white supremest talks like that the media as well as the public would be in an uproar against them.:shrug:

WTF are you talking about? That doesnt make sense.Did you even hear the damn speech? I doubt it,to place Wright and White supremacist in the same situation is absurd,ridiculous,foolish.The judgement in american politics are garbage.

If he's so great, why has Obama "disowned" him?

OBAMA DID NOT DISOWN ME
-WRIGHT

What is it with you ULTRA CONS trying to twist stories and lies up? Seriously did you even hear Obamas major speech?

I can no disown this man no more than i can disown my own grandmother
-Barack:rolleyes:

MSNBC needs to stop seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why did these idiots highlight the poll saying41 percent of people say Wright i hurting Obama.

WTF happened to the highlights of the 59 overwhelming percent that says it is not.

The media just loves controversy,sad and pathethic

So what about this?

"In the Democratic debate on April 16, Obama referred to Wright as “somebody who is associated with me that I have disowned,” then clarified that to say he had disowned the comments."

Source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9912.html

So what about this?

"In the Democratic debate on April 16, Obama referred to Wright as “somebody who is associated with me that I have disowned,” then clarified that to say he had disowned the comments."

Source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9912.html

He did not disown Wright,He disowned his comments and denounced them.Understand the difference.:rolleyes:

MSNBC needs to stop seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why did these idiots highlight the poll saying41 percent of people say Wright i hurting Obama.

WTF happened to the highlights of the 59 overwhelming percent that says it is not.

The media just loves controversy,sad and pathethic

Whatchya gonna do when he loses? Riot?

Whatchya gonna do when he loses? Riot?

He aint gonna lose.If he does yes riots will occur.

I made a thread about his outstanding speech.

The Black community needs more people like Jeremiah Wright.

Yes man,omg the media is so ticked off Wright is striking discomfort in those who cannot accept the truth or just plain old ignorant to it.The man ate every question thrown toward him with ease,got the support of the whole entire audience of white,black and brown because he made perfect sense.The media portrays him incorrectly.

Making sense just isn't relevent to our present political climate.

Making sense just isn't relevent to our present political climate.

What makes sense to you? Are you going to join in the riots, too.

Hillary won the bigger/more important states. If it were the GOP she'd have it wrapped up, already.

The nomination process is indeed convoluted, but that's a separate issue. My point is that people aren't voting on issues necessarily, but feelings. All they see is an angry black man, and they don't look beyond that. That's why we're doomed.

What makes sense to you? Are you going to join in the riots, too.

Hillary won the bigger/more important states. If it were the GOP she'd have it wrapped up, already.

That pathethic argument? Are you serious? Who is ahead in popular vote? Who has the popularity? Obama.There is no HILARY MANIA,these delusions you live in are total laughter.Hilary is not going to win,unless she cheats its the only way.Thats almost a guarantee,you truly think Indiana is going in her favor? ha!.Being a state close to Illinois,Indiana is Baracks turf.

He did not disown Wright,He disowned his comments and denounced them.Understand the difference.:rolleyes:

I understand the difference. Obama was the one who initially confused.

And you seem to be basking in Wright's carefully orchestrated media campaign, so the question becomes, if Wright is such a patriot, etc. then why did Obama "disown" all these comments that apparently were taken out of context?

I understand the difference. Obama was the one who initially confused.

And you seem to be basking in Wright's carefully orchestrated media campaign, so the question becomes, if Wright is such a patriot, etc. then why did Obama "disown" all these comments that apparently were taken out of context?

Obama "disowned" Wright's comments because highly-sensitive Americans, being told by the in-your-face media that they should be angry, would ruin Obama's campaign completely. If I were American, knowing Wright was Obama's pastor would simply make me want to vote even more for Barack. However, I'm not American, nor do I represent the views of the general public in the U.S. That is precisely why Obama was forced to "disown", to a certain degree, Wright's comments.

Nobody "told" the American people to get angry.

This is what amuses me about this situation so. Leftists and other Obama-lovers just can't fathom why and how these remarks legitimately pissed people off. And it's understandable. A good many of you believe the sort of tripe Wright belches from pulpit. That there are just as many who don't agree with it, and in not agreeing, are highly offended by the remarks just doesn't compute for you. It's impossible, right? So it must be the result of the MEDIA TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO THINK.

What a joke...

Nobody "told" the American people to get angry.

This is what amuses me about this situation so. Leftists and other Obama-lovers just can't fathom why and how these remarks legitimately pissed people off. And it's understandable. A good many of you believe the sort of tripe Wright belches from pulpit. That there are just as many who don't agree with it, and in not agreeing, are highly offended by the remarks just doesn't compute for you. It's impossible, right? So it must be the result of the MEDIA TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO THINK.

What a joke...

Whatever you say. Personally, I've never heard anybody take the time to thoroughly refute his claims. Instead, I've heard time and again that he's a "racist" for saying things like "America is controlled by rich white men". If you ask me, only an idiot would deny that fact. But hey, what do I know?

Nobody "told" the American people to get angry.

This is what amuses me about this situation so. Leftists and other Obama-lovers just can't fathom why and how these remarks legitimately pissed people off. And it's understandable. A good many of you believe the sort of tripe Wright belches from pulpit. That there are just as many who don't agree with it, and in not agreeing, are highly offended by the remarks just doesn't compute for you. It's impossible, right? So it must be the result of the MEDIA TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO THINK.

What a joke...

OH JUST HUSH IT.

I am sick and tired of you ULTRA CONS bitching about nothing.When will you all wake up and step in reality.The economy is ass and all your worried about is what someone else said,someone who is not even running for President.Then you blabber bullshit insults and criticism to what your ignorant of which is by far the most ignorant thing to do.The facts are the Reverend just said what many have said,those who do not agree with it are simply ignorant or delusional or playing the game of politics and denying the truths they have heard or read for years that they rub off as CONSPIRACY THEORIES with no facts,links,references to discredit the Reverend.Look at that speech,the Reverend is a genuis,he backs his position up with links,facts,references of books by many others who have come tothe forefront with the argument that the government and media covers up.That is the master speaker,the genius,a wise individual.You who disagree do not understand nor could you ever prove him wrong,you simply make statements about the man without even being aware of who he is.Simple utter ridiculous.:rolleyes:

Nobody "told" the American people to get angry.

This is what amuses me about this situation so. Leftists and other Obama-lovers just can't fathom why and how these remarks legitimately pissed people off. And it's understandable. A good many of you believe the sort of tripe Wright belches from pulpit. That there are just as many who don't agree with it, and in not agreeing, are highly offended by the remarks just doesn't compute for you. It's impossible, right? So it must be the result of the MEDIA TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO THINK.

What a joke...

The sentiments didn't necessarily piss people off, but in this heavily religious country, your pastor's opinion is considered to have more weight than some random comment by a friend. I don't know why that would be, they don't have more knowledge than anyone else.

Whatever you say. Personally, I've never heard anybody take the time to thoroughly refute his claims. Instead, I've heard time and again that he's a "racist" for saying things like "America is controlled by rich white men". If you ask me, only an idiot would deny that fact. But hey, what do I know?

America has more black politicians and more black millionaires, business owners, school teachers etc. than any other country in the world.

Far, far, far, far more too.

America has more black politicians and more black millionaires, business owners, school teachers etc. than any other country in the world.

Far, far, far, far more too.

I could ask you to verify these "statistics", but I think I'd rather just say, "so what?" Most of the Black millionaires in America make their money from music or sports, which is not a realistic goal for the common Black people. The politicians who happen to be Black are never the ones making the decisions, further proving Jeremiah's point that America is controlled by rich white men. School teachers? Who gives a damn about that? Blacks in America are disproportionately poor and uneducated, which is due largely in part to the American government, and how it has crushed every single influential, vocal leader in the Black community.

No, there are millions of poor white people in America. Just that you are happy about that so you dont notice it.

America has more black politicians and more black millionaires, business owners, school teachers etc. than any other country in the world.

Far, far, far, far more too.

No, there are millions of poor white people in America. Just that you are happy about that so you dont notice it.

Yes and they are oppressed greatly as well by your good ole government and referred to by the rich ULTRA CONS as TRAILOR PARK TRASH.

No, there are millions of poor white people in America. Just that you are happy about that so you dont notice it.

So what? You have your rich white people (who make up the majority of the wealth), and you have your poor white people. On the Black side, almost everybody is lower-class.

Well the rich and successful ones are not oppressed. Maybe you should go to the black neighborhoods with nice houses and beautiful lawns. They are hard working people, no different from anyone else just like there are wealthy immigrants in U.S who came here dirt poor.

On the Black side, almost everybody is lower-class.


That may just be you opinion. Like i said, i know plenty of upper class African Americans.

Besides there are rich white people all over the world. What about in your country?:shrug:

Yes and they are oppressed greatly as well by your good ole government and referred to by the rich ULTRA CONS as TRAILOR PARK TRASH.

Everyone has an opportunity to make something of themselves in the U.S.
This "might" be an alien concept to you, but the people themselves are to a great extent personally responsible for their own condition. :eek:

Whatever you say. Personally, I've never heard anybody take the time to thoroughly refute his claims. Instead, I've heard time and again that he's a "racist" for saying things like "America is controlled by rich white men". If you ask me, only an idiot would deny that fact. But hey, what do I know?

New York City could be shutdown by an angry black man — or so the news is telling me...

Yeah, the Governor.

Everyone has an opportunity to make something of themselves in the U.S.
This "might" be an alien concept to you, but the people themselves are to a great extent personally responsible for their own condition. :eek:

HORSE FUCKING SHIT!!!!!!

When your 24 years old and have been unable to get into school because you need a cosigner just for a fucking loan that prevents you from accomplishing your dream.Dont give me that everybody has an opportunity bullshit!,everyone does not have an opportunity,the mere fact that people are so strung hung on EXPERIENCE and never allowing those with the skill without the EXPERIENCE to bring forth a possible great change is a simple fact that everyone does not have the same opportunity.You have discrimination against many that prevents opportunities from happening.People like you live in a colorblind society and its pathethic.You continue to run your mouth about what you do not understand.You just need to stop embarassing yourself and looking a complete fool blabbering bullshit as if oppression does not exist.Step outside your own hypocritical statements and see the broader perspective.You criticize someone you do not know=FOOLISH.You claim Wright was wrong yet you just WANT him to be wrong=FOOLISH.You have came to the forefront with NOTHING to discredit or prove the Reverend wrong=FOOLISH.Do yourself a favor and refrain from your actions.:(

Maybe you could not get enough money becuase you parent made too much money. I know when you fill out the papers for school loans they dont know what color you are.

Your not helping Obama, just reign it in a little. Not everyone is going to agree with you.

HORSE FUCKING SHIT!!!!!!

When your 24 years old and have been unable to get into school because you need a cosigner just for a fucking loan that prevents you from accomplishing your dream.Dont give me that everybody has an opportunity bullshit!

I earned my university tuition by working at a restaurant followed by 4 years in the military (and getting the GI bill). Anyone else could do something similar if they can't afford university tuition..............

I earned my university tuition by working at a restaurant followed by 4 years in the military (and getting the GI bill). Anyone else could do something similar if they can't afford university tuition..............

No people with disabilities that are consistently denied cannot do it.No NY struggling victims who are low income and denied HASA(HUMAN AIDS SERVICE ADMINISTRATION) free housing and etc,no they do not have the same opportunity.Blacks that are discriminated by those racist whites in power that you colorblinds ignore do not have the same opportunities.You keep running your mouth from a blind ignorant perspective and you refuse to stop making yourself look a fool.:shrug:

Does anyone get anything like the GI bill these days? No. Can anyone work their way through college with a minimum wage job these days? No. Cazzo, you are revealing your age.

No people with disabilities that are consistently denied cannot do it.No NY struggling victims who are low income and denied HASA(HUMAN AIDS SERVICE ADMINISTRATION) free housing and etc,no they do not have the same opportunity.Blacks that are discriminated by those racist whites in power that you colorblinds ignore do not have the same opportunities.You keep running your mouth from a blind ignorant perspective and you refuse to stop making yourself look a fool.:shrug:

You should just ask the Governor, he is black and disabled.

Maybe you could not get enough money becuase you parent made too much money. I know when you fill out the papers for school loans they dont know what color you are.

Your not helping Obama, just reign it in a little. Not everyone is going to agree with you.

Maybe you shouldnt be assuming anything regarding a situation of a 24 year old like myself being denied loans in attempt to take up for your GOVERNMENTS FALSELY image that is borderline colorblind or simple fucked up operation by your OH SO PERFECT IN YOUR VIEW GOVERNMENT.:rolleyes:


Dont tell me what i am helping or not helping.You are on the other side,you dont agree with me because your ignorant to facts and you refuse to stop blabbering crappy theories,insults on people you do not know,delusions,ignorance.You wont bow down and admit your dead wrong or simply ignorant to the other side of the fence.You see things from your view,your world,colorblind,making excuses for your irrational statements,created theories,delusions in attempt to feel correct or right.So typical of you ULTRA CONS.:rolleyes:

You should just ask the Governor, he is black and disabled.

You should just ask the Governor, he is black and disabled.

Or you could ask Sandra,my 26 year old friend is HIV positive and was recently denied HASA benefits that would assist her to getting on her feet and attending school while having a roof over her head,all because her T-CELL COUNT was too high.So what now? Are you going to tell this woman to get a job at Mcdonalds like many of you ULTRA CONS do without questioning yourself would you work at some freaking Mickey D's bruised backs,pissy customers,greasy atmosphere,consistently on your feet for mininum wage?

I didnt think so.

Perhaps we could ask the Katrina victims that were poor and accused of LOOTING while the high income individuals cause in the storm were""GATHERING FOOD".Let us ask them.:rolleyes:

I am NOT an ultra con AND I am POOR.

Edit: VERY POOR.

I am NOT an ultra con AND I am POOR.

Edit: VERY POOR.

Good,now cast your vote for the man that is proposing a billions dollar plan to help your poor ass out.:rolleyes:

Well it is my own fault.

Well it is my own fault.

So what does that mean? Its almost like in actuality you say your poor yet your truly an ULTRA CON with money using that same ole illogical view that if you caused your own downfall you should NEVER,EVER EVER receive help from those who so called worked so hard and long for,while being so subconsciously unaware that you yourself is a person who makes mistakes.:rolleyes:

No, i like being poor.

No, i like being poor.
oh ok

Here's the most important thing that I've learned from this current primary. Americans vote based on Emotions, not logic. That's how we ended up with Bush, people voted out of fear. Now we're dangerously close to electing Hillary or Mccain. Why is that? Fear, most people liked Obama(Liberal & Conservative) until they turned him into the angry black muslim-quasi-terrorist. Now people are voting against him not based on policy, but emotion.

Remember this famous exchange between the Architect and Neo in Matrix Reloaded?

But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth:

Now that's a zinger!

Here's the most important thing that I've learned from this current primary. Americans vote based on Emotions, not logic. That's how we ended up with Bush, people voted out of fear. Now we're dangerously close to electing Hillary or Mccain. Why is that? Fear, most people liked Obama(Liberal & Conservative) until they turned into the angry black muslim quasi terrorist. Now people are voting against him not based on policy, but emotion.

Remember this famous exchange between the Architect and Neo in Matrix Reloaded?

But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth:

Now that's a zinger!


!!!!!!!!!

Could not have said it better,i would have to result to large bold letters since the ULTRA CONS seem to repeat the same things over and over as if they are blind and cannot read when responses to there questions were answered long ago,or they simply have no logic.

I always said the judgement basis in this country is absurd.They vote out of fear,emotions,not the abilities the candidate has to change really important issues at hand.That is why Obama today ignored the Wright speech,he is really focused on speaking about the real issues.While the media insist Wright is a thorn in his side.I read alot of responses to Wrights speech from sites that are not ULTRA CON-ISH or EXTREME LIBERALIST,Wright has opened the eyes of many with backbones that are shocked the man is articulate,has knowledge on what he speaks,could back his sources up,was a funny down to earth gentlemen the Ultracons see as arrogant due to his actions being not of there own moralized political behaviors.

Obama on the campaign trail today on Wright's recent comments:

"Some of the comments that Rev. Wright has made offend me, and I understand why they offend the American people. He does not speak for me. He does not speak for the campaign," Obama said.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/04/obama_judge_me_by_my_words_not.html

Obama on the campaign trail today on Wright's recent comments:

"Some of the comments that Rev. Wright has made offend me, and I understand why they offend the American people. He does not speak for me. He does not speak for the campaign," Obama said.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/04/obama_judge_me_by_my_words_not.html

Wright also said its Obamas job to play the political role.;)

Wright also said its Obamas job to play the political role.;)

Are you suggesting Obama's lying to the American people? :eek:

Either way, Wright's not doing Obama any favors. More controversy is the last thing Obama needs. Clinton won't be gaining any votes, but there's the chance of Obama losing some.

Are you suggesting Obama's lying to the American people? :eek:

Either way, Wright's not doing Obama any favors. More controversy is the last thing Obama needs. Clinton won't be gaining any votes, but there's the chance of Obama losing some.

I am suggesting that Obamas statements that denounce the pastors statements are a must in a situation,especially being a black male candidate.And lets not make eek faces toward a notion of Obama lying.When Hilary has been ducking bullets.:D

I am suggesting that Obamas statements that denounce the pastors statements are a must in a situation,especially being a black male candidate.

I see this as Obama's newest chance to close the door on Wright from this campaign for good. So far all Wright has done is damage him, and if he wants to bring in his so called new political era, he needs to dump Wright to do it. Seeing Obama unspin is what makes so many people go ga-ga over him. Seeing him spin though will only hurt him.

Exactly.

As for the emotion thing: Emotion is driving support for Obama and against him. Logic, policy and politics is nowhere to be found in the reasoning of most, including those who are driving Obama toward the nomination.

Exactly.

As for the emotion thing: Emotion is driving support for Obama and against him. Logic, policy and politics is nowhere to be found in the reasoning of most, including those who are driving Obama toward the nomination.

Oh pleaseee,he is not losing support,that propaganda lie the feed you haha.The people claiming they lost support for Obama are usually the same individuals who were never for him to begin with.:rolleyes:

I see this as Obama's newest chance to close the door on Wright from this campaign for good. So far all Wright has done is damage him, and if he wants to bring in his so called new political era, he needs to dump Wright to do it. Seeing Obama unspin is what makes so many people go ga-ga over him. Seeing him spin though will only hurt him.

No if Obama follows the selfish pathethic desires of those who feel guilty or angry because the pastor spoiled there oh so perfect perceptions of the government he will lose his firm base.He is not going to denounce this man.You cons seriously need to get over it.If white voters with no backbone use Wright as the reason not to vote for Obama they obviously should not be voting at all.That poor judgement is the problem with todays politics.

No if Obama follows the selfish pathethic desires of those who feel guilty or angry because the pastor spoiled there oh so perfect perceptions of the government he will lose his firm base.He is not going to denounce this man.You cons seriously need to get over it.If white voters with no backbone use Wright as the reason not to vote for Obama they obviously should not be voting at all.That poor judgement is the problem with todays politics.

The selfish pathetic desires of those who feel angry by Wright's comments?? Obama himself was offended! Are you ready to call him pathetic and selfish? And if not, if you're telling me that Obama was in fact not offended and lied in his statement today, why should I believe you? I have your word against Obama's, and so far Obama has directed everyone to take him at his word by portraying himself as an honest politician who will abandon the lying, the swiftboating, the spinning of yesterday's politicians. So excuse me if I take Obama's words over yours.

The selfish pathetic desires of those who feel angry by Wright's comments?? Obama himself was offended! Are you ready to call him pathetic and selfish? And if not, if you're telling me that Obama was in fact not offended and lied in his statement today, why should I believe you? I have your word against Obama's, and so far Obama has directed everyone to take him at his word by portraying himself as an honest politician who will abandon the lying, the swiftboating, the spinning of yesterday's politicians. So excuse me if I take Obama's words over yours.

:rolleyes:I'm no puppet woman so dont expect me to play these political games,im a realist.Had you been paying careful attention to the campaign and Obamas speech you would of realized that he very well knew of his pastors comments,he knew his views,had he heard them before? yes!,does he agree with them? NO.Just because they are the Reverends views does not mean they are Obamas views.That is so pathethic to hold someone else accountable for the actions of others.The first problem is the bullshit the media hounds Reverend on while most blogs posters today responded with a new profound respect for the man being a realist,clearly issues up clearly,stating he was a man that felt no human being is superior.So what do the ULTRA CONS and political junkies that are so deceived by the cruel acts of this government do? They focus yet again on senseless bullshit claiming the REVEREND WASARROGANT AND FULL OF HIMSELF,NO! in African american culture that adrenaline pumping is a result of a firm belief in truths being said,taught,realized,a self appraisal as a result of having a total understanding of a situation,peration,or association.

Did anyone see that speech on MSNBC AND CNN:eek:

That man has been falsely accused by the cruel media.The man is one of the most articulate,intelligent,humbled preachers i ever heard speak.He is forceful like many of those african american male preachers,i see were Barack gets his powerful speeches from,the man is logical,the man is the truth.Yeshe got carried away with the godayum america,however its delusional to consider this man ignorant or stupid.This man is a powerful speaker.

PREACH ON REVEREND.I MAY NOT BE RELIGIOUS HOWEVER YOUR VIEWS ARE ON POINT.:D
The man is a racist bigot.

He's a dishonest racist bigot.

Whitie may have bought his ancestors, but black Africans sold his ancestors to Whitie.

Until the Reverend damn's those of his own pigmentation for selling their own to Whitie, he has no province to presume to damn Whitie as First Cause.

Black Africans have killed and enslaved more black Africans than Whitie ever has.

Get real.

Had you been paying careful attention to the campaign and Obamas speech you would of realized that he very well knew of his pastors comments,he knew his views,had he heard them before? yes!

Again, am I supposed to take your word over Obama's? He explicitly stated today that he never previously heard Wright's most recent comments, and that he was offended by them, and denounced them.

Now, I agree with you that Obama shouldn't be held accountable for Wright's actions or words and you'll notice that I never said he should be. The one comment I did make was as an objective observer that Wright will hurt Obama in this race. In a perfect world, he wouldn't, but obviously this isn't a perfect world.

an objective observer that Wright will hurt Obama in this race. In a perfect world, he wouldn't, but obviously this isn't a perfect world.

I agree, and oh boy, the right will play this card forever. The Rev. should take a long vacation if he wants to help Berry...

with friends like Wright, who needs 527s?

Obama has again repudiated the Reverand...

The man is a racist bigot.

He's a dishonest racist bigot.

Whitie may have bought his ancestors, but black Africans sold his ancestors to Whitie.

Until the Reverend damn's those of his own pigmentation for selling their own to Whitie, he has no province to presume to damn Whitie as First Cause.

Black Africans have killed and enslaved more black Africans than Whitie ever has.

Get real.

:eek:OMFG YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY BE THIS IGNORANT? DO YOU TRULY BELIEVE YOUR EXAGGERATED,EXTREMELY FALSE STATEMENTS? BOY DONT MAKE ME DESTROY YOU WITH THE HARDCORE FACTS.

Come on Voldemort. The Governor didnt get to where he is by feeling sorry for himself. And he's BLIND for christs sake.

The man is a racist bigot.

He's a dishonest racist bigot.

Whitie may have bought his ancestors, but black Africans sold his ancestors to Whitie.

Until the Reverend damn's those of his own pigmentation for selling their own to Whitie, he has no province to presume to damn Whitie as First Cause.

Black Africans have killed and enslaved more black Africans than Whitie ever has.

Get real.

He never damned white people. He never even damned America. What he said was that if a nation does bad things, and continues to do bad things, it doesn't deserve a blessing from God.

He never damned white people. He never even damned America. What he said was that if a nation does bad things, and continues to do bad things, it doesn't deserve a blessing from God.

You talking to a man that just sat here and said Black africans killed more black slaves than White slave owners.My god if the ignorance does not get any deeper from some of these members.I thought these type of conservative people were all dead and extinct.Its 2008 and we still dealing with pathethic false statements such as those he just said.Like is he even worth it at this point?
:(

Again, am I supposed to take your word over Obama's? He explicitly stated today that he never previously heard Wright's most recent comments, and that he was offended by them, and denounced them.

Now, I agree with you that Obama shouldn't be held accountable for Wright's actions or words and you'll notice that I never said he should be. The one comment I did make was as an objective observer that Wright will hurt Obama in this race. In a perfect world, he wouldn't, but obviously this isn't a perfect world.
Why shouldn't Obama be held accountable for the outrageous statements of his pastor? It's not like this is a guy he had lunch with once or someone he worked with and never really discussed these kind of issues with. This is Obama's pastor. He has been for twenty years. Obama has been sitting in the pew listening to this guy's crap for twenty years and only now is he outraged? I don't buy it.

Not to mention the entire ideological basis for that church is racist and Marxist, as anyone who goes back and looks at its founding can see. So regardless of what Wright did or did not say in the Royal presence, the presence alone is something to question.

Why shouldn't Obama be held accountable for the outrageous statements of his pastor? It's not like this is a guy he had lunch with once or someone he worked with and never really discussed these kind of issues with. This is Obama's pastor. He has been for twenty years. Obama has been sitting in the pew listening to this guy's crap for twenty years and only now is he outraged? I don't buy it.

I think he "accounted" for his differences with Wright today. He explained quite clearly that he doesn't agree with his views. How much more accountable should he be?

Why did he attend a church whose ideological foundation is racist and Marxist?

I think he "accounted" for his differences with Wright today. He explained quite clearly that he doesn't agree with his views. How much more accountable should he be?Sure. Now he disagrees. What about the past 20 years?

Why shouldn't Obama be held accountable for the outrageous statements of his pastor? It's not like this is a guy he had lunch with once or someone he worked with and never really discussed these kind of issues with. This is Obama's pastor. He has been for twenty years. Obama has been sitting in the pew listening to this guy's crap for twenty years and only now is he outraged? I don't buy it.

Because I think a person should be held accountable for his own actions, his own words. Had Obama actually agreed with Wright's sentiments, then I'd be critical. But guilt by association isn't enough for me to discredit him. I was the same with Ron Paul and the racist newsletter stories, which were I think even more damning to Paul than Wright to Obama, and I'm not going to change my view on that just because the person in question this time is a Democrat. Besides, as of yet Obama has denied hearing the offensive comments while he attended the church, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. (none of this changes the fact that Wright belongs to the Al Sharpton demagogue club though)

Did anyone see that speech on MSNBC AND CNN:eek:

That man has been falsely accused by the cruel media.The man is one of the most articulate,intelligent,humbled preachers i ever heard speak.He is forceful like many of those african american male preachers,i see were Barack gets his powerful speeches from,the man is logical,the man is the truth.Yeshe got carried away with the godayum america,however its delusional to consider this man ignorant or stupid.This man is a powerful speaker.

PREACH ON REVEREND.I MAY NOT BE RELIGIOUS HOWEVER YOUR VIEWS ARE ON POINT.:D

Yeah, right!:bugeye: And I suppose you also buy into his myth that HIV was developed by the U.S. government to suppress Black people. Right??????

:eek:OMFG YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY BE THIS IGNORANT? DO YOU TRULY BELIEVE YOUR EXAGGERATED,EXTREMELY FALSE STATEMENTS? BOY DONT MAKE ME DESTROY YOU WITH THE HARDCORE FACTS.
What facts could you possibly offer up that can factually deny that black Africans willingly and willfully sold their fellow black/less than black Africans to Whitie for $$$?

Let's put your well-deserved modern public education to the test.

Show us the facts.

He never damned white people. He never even damned America. What he said was that if a nation does bad things, and continues to do bad things, it doesn't deserve a blessing from God.
I'm not buying what you think you can sell.

You talking to a man that just sat here and said Black africans killed more black slaves than White slave owners.My god if the ignorance does not get any deeper from some of these members.I thought these type of conservative people were all dead and extinct.Its 2008 and we still dealing with pathethic false statements such as those he just said.Like is he even worth it at this point?
:(
Black Africans have killed more black Africans than Whitie ever has.

Whitie has had fewer centuries to stick it to black Africans.

Black Africans have had as much time to stick it to one another as it has taken evolution to make whities with vestigial black African genes into whities.

Oh, and exactly where in this thread did I write/say "slaves", like you said I did? Your own ignorance is actually on display.

I'm not buying what you think you can sell.

BOY SIT DOWN AND BE QUIET.I JUST DISCREDITED YOU TO SMITHERINS.FUCK YOUR PUSSY ASS PALE ANCESTORS,THEY ARE DEAD AND DAMNED FOR ETERNITY BECAUSE OF THERE CRUEL IGNORANT ACTIONS.

I hope all the lefties on this website take a good look at the results of allowing a liberal education policy.

HAHAHA

HAHAHA
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

LMFAOOO@THE ULTRA-CONS POOR ATTEMPTS TO COVER UP THE TRUTH OR DENY IT.

.THESE ARE KNOWN FACTS,FACTS PROVEN BY YOUR WHITE BROTHERS AND SISTERS,FACTS THAT CAME ABOUT BEING FUNDED BY WHITES WHO ARE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH NOT TO LIE OR COVER ANYTHING THAT EXPOSES THERE ANCESTORS DIRT UP WITH SOME TYPE OF JUSTIFICATION THAT IS REASONABLE.

I'D PUT MONEY THAT YOU COULD NEVER!!!! DISCREDIT THOSE FACTS ABOVE.

EMMETT TILL WAS KILLED BY 2 PUNKASS PALESKINS AS A RESULT OF SAYING HELLO TO A WHITE WOMAN.WHITE MEN DID THIS.

IF YOU CALL THIS LIBERAL TEACHING POLICY IN ATTEMPT TO DENY THE TRUTH YOU ARE JUST AS DELUSIONAL AS YOUR ANCESTORS WHO THOUGHT THE WORLD WAS FLAT AND YOU WOULD FALL OFF IF YOU CONTINUED SAIL THE SEAS,WHILE AFRICANS TOTALLY KNEW THE EARTH WAS ROUND AND IT WAS SOME SORT OF FORCE (GRAVITY IS WHAT IT IS NOW LABELED AS) THAT KEEPS UP GROUNDED.:rolleyes:

SHUT THE FUCK UP PLEASE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT NOR HAS EVER BEEN TRUTHFUL AND YOU WILL NEVER COME TO THE FOREFRONT PROVING THIS IS TRUE.

WHITE SLAVE MASTERS HAVE KILLED MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF AFRICAN SLAVES FOR 500 YEARS.IT AMAZES ME HOW SOME OF YOUR IGNORANT ASS WHITE PEOPLE EXAGGERATE A LIE OR THE TRUTH.YOU WATCH AMISTAD AND SEE AFRICANS ENSLAVE OTHERS FOR MONEY AND THEN YOU EXAGGERATE TOTALLY AND CLAIM THEY WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE MURDERS THEN WHITE MEN.ARE YOU FUCKING MAD??? 4-500 YEARS OF SLAVERY WAS DONE BY WHITE PEOPLE.BRINGING DISEASES OVER LIKE MALARIA AND KILLING OFF NATIVE AMERICANS WAS DONE BY WHITE PEOPLE.LYNCHING MILLIONS OF BLACKS WAS NOT DONE BY AFRICANS,IT WAS DONE BY WHITE PEOPLE.

AND WHAT THE FUCK MAKES YOU THINK JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK AFRICANS KILLED MORE OF THERE OWN KIND THAN OTHER AFRICANS THAT SHOULD ALLEVIATE THE CRUEL HATE,THE MURDERS OF EMMETT TILL WHOM FACE WAS MUTILATED BY IDIOTIC WHITE MEN FOR SAYING "HELLO"TO A WHITE LADY AND BODY TOSSED IN A RIVER WITH A BRICK TIED TO HIS LEG.

WHITE PEOPLE

GET YOUR FUCKING FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU COME LYING,TOTALLY EXAGGERATING A SCENE YOU SEEN FROM A MOVIE.

500 YEARS OF OPPRESSION WAS BECAUSE OF WHITE PEOPLE

NATIVE AMERICANS BEING KILLED OFF WAS BECAUSE OF WHITE PEOPLE

AFRICAN ARTIFACTS AND CREATIONS WERE STOLEN AND NOT CREDITED BY WHITE PEOPLE(CHECK THE BACK OF THE DOLLAR BILL HOW YOUR WHITE ANCESTORS STOLE THE EGYPTIAN OBELISK PICTURE AND CALLED IT A MONUMENT,HOW THEY STOLE THE AFRICANS CREATION OF THE FALCON AS THERE EAGLE,HOW THEY USE THE PYRAMID OF EGYPT ON THE BACK OF YOUR DOLLAR BILL.THE EYE OF GEORGE WASHINGTON IS THE EYE OF THE AFRICAN EGYTIAN GOD HORUS.)DONE BY WHITE PEOPLE

THE DECIMATION OF MANY NATIVE AMERICANS ON ISLANDS OF DOMINICAN REPUBLIC AND PUERTO RICO WAS NOT DONE BY SLAVES,IT WAS DONE BY WHITE PEOPLE.

NATIVE AMERICANS PULLING ATTACKS ON WHITE SLAVE PLANTATIONS AND KILLING ITS WHITE SLAVE OWNERS AND TAKING THE SLAVES IN AND TREATING THEM AS IF THEY WERE THERE OWN.FROM WHO? WHITE PEOPLE.

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THE SHIT YOUR ANCESTORS DID SO HOW DARE YOU SIT LIE,EXAGGERATE,SPEAK FROM IGNORANCE ABOUT SOMETHING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.YOUR ANCESTORS BROUGHT DISEASES,CHAOS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.THE REASON SOME OF THESE LATINOS IN THE CARRIBEANS HATE THERE AFRICAN BLOODLINES THEY HAVE BECAUSE WHITE PEOPLE THAT ONCE CONQUERED THERE LAND TAUGHT THEM TO DENY THERE AFRICAN SLAVE ANCESTRY WHILE ONLY ACKNOWLEDGING THERE NATIVE AMERICAN ANCESTRY AND EUROPEAN ANCESTRY.

SIT YOUR ASS DOWN PLEASE.WHITE MEN ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR SEGREGATION,THE MURDER OF MLK,THE OPPRESSION THAT EXIST IN THIS COUNTRY,THE MURDERS OF MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF AFRICAN SLAVES,MANY WHOM THEY BRIBE TO KIDNAP OTHER AFRICANS FOR GOLD AND MONEY.DO NOT GIVE ME THAT BULLSHIT.

FUCK YOUR PALE ANCESTORS,THERE PATHETHIC PISSY ASS SOULS ROAST IN THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR ETERNITY,DAMN YOUR GENETICS,FUCK YOUR PALE ANCESTORS,.

Wow!

Yeah, when you don't have any real evidence to show, just start shouting - that makes your opinion sound correct, right?

No wonder you like Wright. You and he both are highly bigoted and enjoy spouting racial hatred. Neither of you have any facts to point to and instead of clarifying issues, you both do nothing but make things much worse by voicing your pointless and unwarrented anger. Pity.

But we will still continue to make progress despite all you can stir up.

READ-ONLY WHAT????????


http://www.richsamuels.com/nbcmm/till/images/emmett_till.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/sukeyna/emmetttillcasket.jpg

PALESKINS DID THIS,NOT AFRICANS.POOR EMMETT WAS JUST BEING A FRIENDLY AND LOST HIS LIFE AS A RESULT OF IGNORANCE.

http://www.africaresource.com/ijele/issue5/jackson/14-Anon,-lynch-photo.gif

I SEE PALESKINS,NOT AFRICANS SURROUNDED BY THAT BURNT CORPSE FROM YOUR ANCESTORS.


LOOK AT YOU READ-ONLY,YOUR PATHETHIC ASs STATEMENT OF DELUSION.YOUR NO DIFFERENT FROM THEM PALESKINS SITTING ON MSNBC CRITICIZING WRIGHT,CLAIMING HE IS WRONG WHILE TOTALLY HAVING NOTHING TO DISCREDIT THE MANS BELIEFS OR STATEMENTS.YOU LASH OFF WITH ANGER AND DELUSION BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN A COLORBLIND ASS WORLD ALWAYS IN ATTEMPT TO REDIRECT THE BAD LIGHT OFF YOUR FUCKED UP IGNORANCE AND INABILITY TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH ABOUT YOUR ANCESTORS.HOW DARE YOU CLAIM I HAVE NO FACTS.BOY WHAT THE HELL COUNTRY DO YOU LIVE IN.THE WHITEST OF WHITE PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU THINGS I HAVE STATED.

I CHALLENGE YOU TO PROVE ANY AND EVERYTHING I SAID AS BEING INCORRECT OR LACKING FACTS.

THE CHALLENGE STARTS NOW.


YOUR NEXT RESPONSE SHOULD BE SOME PHOTOS,LINKS,FACTS,REFERENCES TO DISCREDIT MY STATEMENTS.I HAVE MANY MANY MANY TO POST.

DO NOT MAKE ME EMBARASS YOU.

(YOU DONT SHOUT ON THE INTERNET,I DONT KNOW WHO THE FUCK GETS THIS BULLSHIT NOTION THAT YOU SHOUT OVER THE NET.THE LETTERS ARE BOLD,WHICH GRABS YOUR ATTENTION BECAUSE ITS A BIGGER WORD TEXT).THATS MY INTENT,SO KILL THE WEAK CRITICISMS AND LETS STICK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND AND YOUR INABILITY TO PROVE I AM INCORRECT.

Wow!

Yeah, when you don't have any real evidence to show, just start shouting - that makes your opinion sound correct, right?

No wonder you like Wright. You and he both are highly bigoted and enjoy spouting racial hatred. Neither of you have any facts to point to and instead of clarifying issues, you both do nothing but make things much worse by voicing your pointless and unwarrented anger. Pity.

But we will still continue to make progress despite all you can stir up.

LETS EXAMINE


(PROFESSOR VOLDEMORT PLACES WAND AT BOARD.)
http://www.munic.state.ct.us/BURLINGTON/us_one_dollar_bill/us_dollar_back.gif

To the left we have a triangle Pyramid.

At the tip of that Pyramid lays the eye of George Washington.

Look at the eye of George Washington

Now look at the eye of HORUS
http://photos.igougo.com/images/p165867-Cairo-Eye_of_Horus.jpg

To the right ladies and gentlemen we have the American eagle look at its position and its shape,its look.

Now lets look at the Falcon from Ancient Egyptian time

http://www.mystae.com/images/falcon.gif




NEED I SAY MORE??????

STOLEN STOLEN STOLEN,NEVER EVEN CREDITED.THE GOOD OLE U.S.A BUILT ON THE BLOOD OF AFRICAN SLAVES AND THERE ANCESTORS CREATIONS STOLEN AND NEVER CREDITED.

READ-ONLY WHAT????????


http://www.richsamuels.com/nbcmm/till/images/emmett_till.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/sukeyna/emmetttillcasket.jpg

PALESKINS DID THIS,NOT AFRICANS.POOR EMMETT WAS JUST BEING A FRIENDLY AND LOST HIS LIFE AS A RESULT OF IGNORANCE.

http://www.africaresource.com/ijele/issue5/jackson/14-Anon,-lynch-photo.gif

I SEE PALESKINS,NOT AFRICANS SURROUNDED BY THAT BURNT CORPSE FROM YOUR ANCESTORS.


LOOK AT YOU READ-ONLY,YOUR PATHETHIC ASs STATEMENT OF DELUSION.YOUR NO DIFFERENT FROM THEM PALESKINS SITTING ON MSNBC CRITICIZING WRIGHT,CLAIMING HE IS WRONG WHILE TOTALLY HAVING NOTHING TO DISCREDIT THE MANS BELIEFS OR STATEMENTS.YOU LASH OFF WITH ANGER AND DELUSION BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN A COLORBLIND ASS WORLD ALWAYS IN ATTEMPT TO REDIRECT THE BAD LIGHT OFF YOUR FUCKED UP IGNORANCE AND INABILITY TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH ABOUT YOUR ANCESTORS.HOW DARE YOU CLAIM I HAVE NO FACTS.BOY WHAT THE HELL COUNTRY DO YOU LIVE IN.THE WHITEST OF WHITE PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU THINGS I HAVE STATED.

I CHALLENGE YOU TO PROVE ANY AND EVERYTHING I SAID AS BEING INCORRECT OR LACKING FACTS.

THE CHALLENGE STARTS NOW.


YOUR NEXT RESPONSE SHOULD BE SOME PHOTOS,LINKS,FACTS,REFERENCES TO DISCREDIT MY STATEMENTS.I HAVE MANY MANY MANY TO POST.

DO NOT MAKE ME EMBARASS YOU.

(YOU DONT SHOUT ON THE INTERNET,I DONT KNOW WHO THE FUCK GETS THIS BULLSHIT NOTION THAT YOU SHOUT OVER THE NET.THE LETTERS ARE BOLD,WHICH GRABS YOUR ATTENTION BECAUSE ITS A BIGGER WORD TEXT).THATS MY INTENT,SO KILL THE WEAK CRITICISMS AND LETS STICK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND AND YOUR INABILITY TO PROVE I AM INCORRECT.

Your words aren't in bold - they are just all caps which is the equivalent of shouting.

And you have yet to present any facts. Sure, I'm aware (and so are most people) that "Whitie", as you call them, has done many, many evil things - to Blacks [u]and other Whites[/i]. You've just selected a few instances and photos but that's hardly proof of your claim.

Show us some references (links!!!) that prove Whitey has killed millions and millions of Blacks AND that Wright's claim that the U.S. government invented HIV. (Hint: you cannot do it - those are the ravings of fools.)

POOR EMMETT WAS JUST BEING A FRIENDLY AND LOST HIS LIFE AS A RESULT OF IGNORANCE.


Well, it's typical you'd see it that way.

If you bothered to read the bio at Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till), you'd see he deliberately sought to antagonize a white man - and thereby the white community - by approaching the man's wife, in a manner which could only have been perceived as extremely insolent and lascivious for that time and place.

Perhaps he should have considered the possible consequences before he did that? The unfortunate results could have been avoided if all parties had behavd differently.

And by the way, MadAnthony will probably delete all off-topic material, so I'd save your 'data' and ranting and post it in another forum, Free Thoughts or Ethics, Morality and Justice, for example.

Let us take a trip to my hometown of Washington,D.C and examine Americas Washington Monument.

http://www.dailyventure.com/300x400/dc_washingtonMonument_01.jpg



Now lets us Disapparate to the great land of My ancestors Egypt.

(Voldemort uses wand to disapparate he and his class to Egypt)
http://www.antique-collectable-clock.com/image-files/egyptian_obelisk.jpg


Looks familiar?


STOLEN STOLEN STOLEN!!!!!!!

http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/products/S000140.jpg

What is this? The Obelisk A.K.A The Washington Monument with the eyes of Horus A.k.A the eye of George Washington?


STOLEN STOLEN STOLEN!!!!!

NOW GET MAD,,,ANGRY,CLAIM ITS A LIE,A RESULT OF LIBERAL TEACHING.

YET YOU WILL NEVEEEEEEEER PROVE ME WRONG


EVVVVVVVVVER!

BECAUSE YOU CANT

Well, it's typical you'd see it that way.

If you bothered to read the bio at Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till), you'd see he deliberately sought to antagonize a white man - and thereby the white community - by approaching the man's wife, in a manner which could only have been perceived as extremely insolent and lascivious for that time and place.

Perhaps he should have considered the possible consequences before he did that? The unfortunate results could have been avoided if all parties had behavd differently.

And by the way, MadAnthony will probably delete all off-topic material, so I'd save your 'data' and ranting and post it in another forum, Free Thoughts or Ethics, Morality and Justice, for example.

NO IGNORANT PALESKIN!!!!!,HE SAID HELLO TO HER,WITNESSES AND HERSELF STATED THE SAME THING AFTER THE WHITE MEN WERE AQUITTED,THE SAME WOMAN STATED THE SAME THING.THOSE RACIST CRACKERS LIED AND SAID THEY DID NOT KILL EMMETT,YET TURNED TO LAUGH ABOUT THE SITUATION AND HOW THE DID IT OUT OF HATRED IN A MAGAZINE LATER ON AFTER BENG AQUITTED.YOU NEED TO RESEARCH BOY.OH BTW WIKIPEDIA IS YOUR SOURCE? HAHHAHHAHAHA.NEVERMIND.

PLEASE SAVE MY DATA,BECAUSE YOU WILL NEVER! PROVE ME WRONG.

CANT FACE THE TRUTH? OR JUST SIMPLY IGNORANT OF IT?

There is no reasonable justification of bashing someones face into mutilation as a result of something as petty as trying to HOLLA ATHER(As we CITYFOLK call it when you make sexual advances at someone).So even if that lie was the actual truth there remains no justification for beating his face into its meat and tying a rope with a brick to his ankle and tossing him in the river,killing a child,a a child of a grieving mother who was hurt.How dare you try to justify the pathethic actions of those paleskins.You need to be shit smacked in the mouth if you dare try to justify the cruel racist actions of those paleskins.

Show us some references (links!!!) that prove Whitey has killed millions and millions of Blacks AND that Wright's claim that the U.S. government invented HIV. (Hint: you cannot do it - those are the ravings of fools.)

Dont you dare try to make my statements come off as opinion.These are facts,FACTS,FACTS,FACTSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

FACTS you will never discredit.Where is your links,facts,references to discredit my claims,my picture comparisons of the stolen egyptian legacy by your white paleskin ancestors? You have none,nothing.You sit here and try to use that bullshit ITS YOUR OPINION crap against known facts.There is a difference between fact and opinion.

It is an opinion that an apple taste good.

It is a fact that an Apple contains Polyphenol Antioxidants that protects you from heart disease.


It is an opinion that the egyptians are nice people.

It is a fact that your paleskin ancestors totally stole Ancient Egyptian creations without crediting them and using them for there own creation,there own indications or meanings.That fact has been proven by many paleskins themselves who do not live in the lands of delusional la la COLORBLINDNESS as if we are in some perfect world.


I need to show you facts Whitey has killed millions of Africans? WOW,Why would i even bother to show you proof to something you know damn well is the case.You dont live in america or this planet if you need proof that white men and women were not responsible for the death of millions of African slaves over the course of 4-500 years.:rolleyes:

Let us take a trip to my hometown of Washington,D.C and examine Americas Washington Monument.

http://www.dailyventure.com/300x400/dc_washingtonMonument_01.jpg



Now lets us Disapparate to the great land of My ancestors Egypt.

(Voldemort uses wand to disapparate he and his class to Egypt)
http://www.antique-collectable-clock.com/image-files/egyptian_obelisk.jpg


Looks familiar?


STOLEN STOLEN STOLEN!!!!!!!

http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/products/S000140.jpg

What is this? The Obelisk A.K.A The Washington Monument with the eyes of Horus A.k.A the eye of George Washington?


STOLEN STOLEN STOLEN!!!!!

NOW GET MAD,,,ANGRY,CLAIM ITS A LIE,A RESULT OF LIBERAL TEACHING.

YET YOU WILL NEVEEEEEEEER PROVE ME WRONG


EVVVVVVVVVER!

BECAUSE YOU CANT


TRUTH*WAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I bet you will never ever discredit these facts.

This is why the Reverend Wright says GODAYUM AMERICA!.

And where is your "evidence" showing the US gov't invented HIV is a fact?

Dont you dare try to make my statements come off as opinion.These are facts,FACTS,FACTS,FACTSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

FACTS you will never discredit.Where is your links,facts,references to discredit my claims,my picture comparisons of the stolen egyptian legacy by your white paleskin ancestors? You have none,nothing.You sit here and try to use that bullshit ITS YOUR OPINION crap against known facts.There is a difference between fact and opinion.

It is an opinion that an apple taste good.

It is a fact that an Apple contains Polyphenol Antioxidants that protects you from heart disease.


It is an opinion that the egyptians are nice people.

It is a fact that your paleskin ancestors totally stole Ancient Egyptian creations without crediting them and using them for there own creation,there own indications or meanings.That fact has been proven by many paleskins themselves who do not live in the lands of delusional la la COLORBLINDNESS as if we are in some perfect world.


I need to show you facts Whitey has killed millions of Africans? WOW,Why would i even bother to show you proof to something you know damn well is the case.You dont live in america or this planet if you need proof that white men and women were not responsible for the death of millions of African slaves over the course of 4-500 years.:rolleyes:

Sigh,

Nothing but more pointless ravings.

I have no arguments with the fact that various (several!) civilizations have borrowed/stolen/whatever from other that came before them. That has nothing to do with the things at hand.

No, I have nothing that I have to prove. It was YOU that made the claims about the millions killed so it's up to YOU to substantiate YOUR claims. Apparently you are all mouth and no substance since you have yet to cite a single source to support you.

Now lets us Disapparate to the great land of My ancestors Egypt.


Err... your ancestors came from an area of (West) Africa now part of the nations of Ghana, Nigeria, Angola, Congo, Cameroon, etc... in short, nowhere near Egypt.

You didn't even know that?

Sigh,

Nothing but more pointless ravings.

I have no arguments with the fact that various (several!) civilizations have borrowed/stolen/whatever from other that came before them. That has nothing to do with the things at hand.

No, I have nothing that I have to prove. It was YOU that made the claims about the millions killed so it's up to YOU to substantiate YOUR claims. Apparently you are all mouth and no substance since you have yet to cite a single source to support you.



I have no arguments with the fact that various (several!) civilizations have borrowed


HAHAHAHHAHAHA

HAHAHHAHAHA

BARROWED???

HAHAHAHHAA
\
FALLS ON THE FLOOR.

UMMM EXCUSE ME NATIVE AMERICAN DEAR,I AM GOING TO BARROW YOUR LEGACY AND YOUR CREATION FOR MY OWN USE AND THEN RETURN IT TO YOU. NO NO NO! THERES NEVERMIND ME ASKING COULD I BARROW YOUR CREATIONS,I AM JUST GOING TO SAVE YOU THE TIME AND ENERGY OF GIVING IT TO ME AND JUST TAKE IT AND RETURN IT BACK TO YOU AFTER A GOOD 4-500 YEARS

HAHHAHAHA.


Look nimkapoop!!! You cant barrow someones legacy,or creations.They stole the creations from egypt and did not credit them.It is one to take the creations of the africans and use them to create your own meaning with acknowledging you were influenced by the original creators of the symbols or sorts.It is quite another when you STEAL the creations and use them to create your own meanings and never credit the original creators.Learn the difference boy.That ultra connish ignorance is wayyyyyyy to high.




HAHAHHAHAHHAA


No, I have nothing that I have to prove. It was YOU that made the claims about the millions killed so it's up to YOU to substantiate YOUR claims. Apparently you are all mouth and no substance since you have yet to cite a single source to support you.


LMFAOOOOOOOO

YOU dont LIVE on this PLANET if you need PROOF that WHITE MEN were[b]RESPONSIBLE for the DEATH[/] of many [b]AFRICAN SLAVES.

My god you cannot possibly be this fucking ignorant.You would be jumped,beat up,stabbed,robbed or laughed at if you were in New York City and said this.The entire city would laugh at you.

Were you born in Jena,Louisiana? I always thought people like were all dead until i saw the mentalities of that town.I mean serious do you realllllly think i am unable to prove that your ancestors were responsible for the deaths of millions of african slaves?

OH WOW!.

Kadark if your reading this should i do it? Is it even worth it?

lol.

Err... your ancestors came from an area of (West) Africa now part of the nations of Ghana, Nigeria, Angola, Congo, Cameroon, etc... in short, nowhere near Egypt.

You didn't even know that?

:eek:LMFAOOOOOOO

HAHHAHAHHAA

FALLS BACK ON THE FLOOR.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW FOOLISH YOU SOUND.:(


First off you dont know were my ancestors come from so lets not assume based on what you think you know.Second if you truly fucking think just because someones ancestors are from a different part of Africa than Egypt they have no genetic relations to them you are either delusional,or just plain ole ignorant.WOW!.First off ignorant one,the Ancient Egyptians themselves traced there ancestry to other parts of africa.They were transplants who left there lands of other parts of Africa for areas that hosted much water,plant,animals and life.You are a whiteboy,and i am black.Your ancestors come europe,mine come Africa.Science has proven that every single human being is related to each other.We all including your white ass is the descendant of 1 African female.Science has traced a DNA strand in all humans of all races to a certain group in Black Africa.

GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER IGNORANT PALESKIN.

The Reverend Wright damns America due to this type of ignorance you carry.

Is that similar to the Reverend's ignorance about the origin of AIDS? Or do you actually believe the US gov't created that too?

HAHAHAHHAHAHA

HAHAHHAHAHA

BARROWED???

HAHAHAHHAA
\
FALLS ON THE FLOOR.

UMMM EXCUSE ME NATIVE AMERICAN DEAR,I AM GOING TO BARROW YOUR LEGACY AND YOUR CREATION FOR MY OWN USE AND THEN RETURN IT TO YOU. NO NO NO! THERES NEVERMIND ME ASKING COULD I BARROW YOUR CREATIONS,I AM JUST GOING TO SAVE YOU THE TIME AND ENERGY OF GIVING IT TO ME AND JUST TAKE IT AND RETURN IT BACK TO YOU AFTER A GOOD 4-500 YEARS

HAHHAHAHA.


Look nimkapoop!!! You cant barrow someones legacy,or creations.They stole the creations from egypt and did not credit them.It is one to take the creations of the africans and use them to create your own meaning with acknowledging you were influenced by the original creators of the symbols or sorts.It is quite another when you STEAL the creations and use them to create your own meanings and never credit the original creators.Learn the difference boy.That ultra connish ignorance is wayyyyyyy to high.



Calling me a nincompoop when you can't even spell a simple word like "borrowed" correctly??????? And I DID openly say "stole" - though you obviously chose to ignore it.

The only things you've actually proven here are your own ignorance, illiteracy, anger and racial hatred.

You've also shown yourself unworthy of carrying on a reasonable conversation. This world will become a far better place when both you and your hero Wright are long gone.

With that, I leave you to squirm in your own deluded anger and hope that you are forever as miserable because of it as you are now.

I also love the reverend. He is a good dancer. He hip-hoped quite well, and caused pretty decent damage to Obama.

What is there not to like?

Calling me a nincompoop when you can't even spell a simple word like "borrowed" correctly??????? And I DID openly say "stole" - though you obviously chose to ignore it.

The only things you've actually proven here are your own ignorance, illiteracy, anger and racial hatred.

You've also shown yourself unworthy of carrying on a reasonable conversation. This world will become a far better place when both you and your hero Wright are long gone.

With that, I leave you to squirm in your own deluded anger and hope that you are forever as miserable because of it as you are now.

The nerve of this idiot sitting up here speaking of ignorance,when you are taking a position asking proof that your punkass pale ancestors were responsible for the murder of millions of Africans.The irony.

You been running your mouth too long and you have said nothing.You just stated that cultures""BORROW"other cultures creations,you idiot how do you borrow a fucking culture or things within in it.Furthermore when the hell are you going to give it back?.Sit down,hypocrisy isnt sweet,you speak that i am Ignorant.Yep,i am ignorant to to how a TV is made,just like your ignorant to the facts that your ancestors were likely responsible death of millions of African slaves(that being if you are white and playing ignorant but truly aware) Ignorant means unaware and uninformed.What am i unaware and uninformed regarding this debate? EXACTLY.I am chewing your ass apart and your response should be facts,links or references to prove America did not steal the symbols from Egypt and use them for the back of the Dollar Bill.You cant do it!,so instead you throw insults,criticisms,yet your argument is bland and you speak from thin air,Sit down.Ignorance is something every human being has,you ULTRA CONS spew insults and criticisms failing to realize the hypocrisy or ignorance to the full understanding of the term or label.Thats typical of ULTRA CONNISH behaviors.People with high intelligence(meaning the ability to apply and aquire knowledge) in these areas are not nearly this dimwitted.

Yeah, these people are stupid. LOL. Seriously though, i think Canada is an awesome place. Vodemort did you know they have free health care in CANADA? I am going there myself, i think you can walk right across the border too.

Is that similar to the Reverend's ignorance about the origin of AIDS? Or do you actually believe the US gov't created that too?

Oh no you will not sit here and take the position as if you know were Aids came from.First off the Reverends ignorance? Woman can you tell me the references the Reverend used to back up his claim the U.S government created Aids?(YOU BETTER NOT TAKE YOUR ASS TO GOOGLE EITHER,ADMIT YOU DONT KNOW) If not then what it is similar to is the ignorance you carry regarding the references Wright used which came from a PALESKIN(BTW)that the U.S government created Aids.So who the hell you to sit and talk about someones ignorance when you have an ignorance that the Reverend has intelligence regarding theories(many would argue facts) that point to the Government creating Aids.Its foolish to sit and become a hypocrite.Many argue now the Reverend does not have ignorance,he has intelligence regarding how Aids was created due to his ability to back his argument up with a study that still has yet to be discredited.:rolleyes:

Yeah, these people are stupid. LOL. Seriously though, i think Canada is an awesome place. Vodemort did you know they have free health care in CANADA? I am going there myself, i think you can walk right across the border too.

John im going to take your word on these people truly being stupid,because i cannot think you are not nearly as dimwitted as they are and ignorant of the facts i presented to them,such as the murder of Emmett Till,The stolen symbols of Egypt,or claims that White slave owners were not responsible for the deaths of millions of Africans over the course of 4-500 years.Yes i know they have free health care,they also have better sense of judgement than Americans.Canada is Obama territory just like 89 percent of the rest of the world.

I already said the Reverend was very smart BUT not everyone knows everything.

John im going to take your word on these people truly being stupid,because i cannot think you are not nearly as dimwitted as they are and ignorant of the facts i presented to them,such as the murder of Emmett Till...

You have to let things go. It was a different world then but seriously anger will only hurt you in the long run.

I already said the Reverend was very smart BUT not everyone knows everyting.

Of course,we all have ignorance.Truthfully i think the Reverend Wrights speech did not play negative on the intelligent individuals with logical thinking and good judgement basis,if it did it was usually anger that resulted from him placing Obamas chances at wooing white voters at jeopardy of not suceeding at all.However many blogs and many of his supporters including white people that are young and old have knowledge of how the media falsely portrays a man while developing there own judgement based off his speeches which politically are a horror show,yet in reality they see as simple down to earth personality and confidence at exposing the crooked actions of a country that allowed New Orleans low income individuals to drown in the floods.They see Revs tape and they go WOOOWWWW this man is a genuis,BOy the media had me fooled.However its without a doubt those ULTRA CONS may despise Obama even more.That being if his speech on denouncing him FINALLY did not play well with them.I know Americans are dumb,however thats only some Americans,many are quite aware and have there own sense of judgement,one that has good logic.

You have to let things go. It was a different world then but seriously anger will only hurt you in the long run.

LMFAOOO what makes you think i am being affected by this.Its angering to think about yes,but does it cause me to become bitter? NOPE.Because i am aware ignorance knows no better,even my own.

Oh no you will not sit here and take the position as if you know were Aids came from.First off the Reverends ignorance? Woman can you tell me the references the Reverend used to back up his claim the U.S government created Aids?(YOU BETTER NOT TAKE YOUR ASS TO GOOGLE EITHER,ADMIT YOU DONT KNOW) If not then what it is similar to is the ignorance you carry regarding the references Wright used which came from a PALESKIN(BTW)that the U.S government created Aids.So who the hell you to sit and talk about someones ignorance when you have an ignorance that the Reverend has intelligence regarding theories(many would argue facts) that point to the Government creating Aids.Its foolish to sit and become a hypocrite.Many argue now the Reverend does not have ignorance,he has intelligence regarding how Aids was created due to his ability to back his argument up with a study that still has yet to be discredited.:rolleyes:

Are you listening to yourself? You talk about all this evidence of yours proving that HIV was invented by the US government, about all this evidence that Wright has put together, and you still haven't demonstrated one bit of it. Put up, or shut up. All the Reverend has said so far is this:

“The government lied about the Tuskegee experiment. They purposely infected African American men with syphilis. Governments lie. The government lied about bombing Cambodia and Richard Nixon stood in front of the camera, ‘Let me make myself perfectly clear…’ Governments lie. The government lied about the drugs for arms Contra scheme orchestrated by Oliver North, and then the government pardoned all the perpetrators so they could get better jobs in the government. Governments lie. The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. Governments lie. The government lied about a connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein and a connection between 9.11.01 and Operation Iraqi Freedom. Governments lie.”

And for the most part, the statement is true. Everything about the lying with the Turkegee experiment, lying about the Iraq war, that's true. But there is no evidence supporting that the US invented HIV! You talk of all these references that Wright has, that he used, what are they? They're nowhere to be found! Why? Because they don't exist. Show me that they exist first and then we can have a legitimate conversation.

And again, please, learn to read. Nowhere did I ever say I know where AIDS came from. The only person claiming that so far is Reverend Wright, along with the rest of the HIV-came-from-the-government conspiracy theorists, and he still hasn't demonstrated any proof for it.

Many argue now the Reverend does not have ignorance,he has intelligence regarding how Aids was created due to his ability to back his argument up with a study that still has yet to be discredited

Go on, show me. Where is the study? What's it called?

Type in all caps. I hear that helps convince people of bullshit.

Go on, show me. Where is the study? What's it called?

He cannot because there is no such study. Therefore he appears to have turned tail and run away - as rightly he should.

Actually, I'm a little surprised this thread is still active. It should have been locked and he permanently banned. I've never seen such a strong example of bigotry and racial bias here before! If it was anti-Black, Jewish or whatever instead of Caucasian, he would have been blocked LONG ago!!!:bugeye::shrug:

I really don't want to take sides in this thread but would like to post some generic information on HIV and the origin of AIDS. I think that anyone who is truly interested in accurate information , who takes the time to read this simple compilation, cannot help but learn from the process.
I am sorry that this had to be my transformation from a lurker to a posting member but as a multi racial member of the USA population I am deeply frightened by direction things are going.
Respectfully,
Jonathan
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The origin of AIDS and HIV, and the first cases of AIDS
The origin of AIDS and HIV has puzzled scientists ever since the illness first came to light in the early 1980s. For over twenty years it has been the subject of fierce debate and the cause of countless arguments, with everything from a promiscuous flight attendant to a suspect vaccine programme being blamed. So what is the truth? Just where did AIDS come from?

The first recognised cases of AIDS occurred in the USA in the early 1980s (more about this period can be found on our history page). A number of gay men in New York and California suddenly began to develop rare opportunistic infections and cancers that seemed stubbornly resistant to any treatment. At this time, AIDS did not yet have a name, but it quickly became obvious that all the men were suffering from a common syndrome.

The discovery of HIV, the Human Immunodeficiency Virus, was made soon after. While some were initially resistant to acknowledge the connection (and indeed some remain so today), there is now clear evidence to prove that HIV causes AIDS. So, in order to find the source of AIDS, it is necessary to look for the origin of HIV, and find out How, When and Where HIV first began to cause disease in humans.

HOW?
What type of virus is HIV?
HIV is a lentivirus, and like all viruses of this type, it attacks the immune system. Lentiviruses are in turn part of a larger group of viruses known as retroviruses. The name 'lentivirus' literally means 'slow virus' because they take such a long time to produce any adverse effects in the body. They have been found in a number of different animals, including cats, sheep, horses and cattle. However, the most interesting lentivirus in terms of the investigation into the origins of HIV is the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus (SIV) that affects monkeys.

So did HIV come from an SIV?
It is now generally accepted that HIV is a descendant of a Simian Immunodeficiency Virus because certain strains of SIVs bear a very close resemblance to HIV-1 and HIV-2, the two types of HIV.

HIV-2 for example corresponds to SIVsm, a strain of the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus found in the sooty mangabey (also known as the White-collared monkey), which is indigenous to western Africa.

The more virulent, pandemic strain of HIV, namely HIV-1, was until recently more difficult to place. Until 1999, the closest counterpart that had been identified was SIVcpz, the SIV found in chimpanzees. However, this virus still had certain significant differences from HIV.

What happened in 1999?
In February 1999 a group of researchers from the University of Alabama1 announced that they had found a type of SIVcpz that was almost identical to HIV-1. This particular strain was identified in a frozen sample taken from a captive member of the sub-group of chimpanzees known as Pan troglodytes troglodytes (P. t. troglodytes), which were once common in west-central Africa.

The researchers (led by Paul Sharp of Nottingham University and Beatrice Hahn of the University of Alabama) made the discovery during the course of a 10-year long study into the origins of the virus. They claimed that this sample proved that chimpanzees were the source of HIV-1, and that the virus had at some point crossed species from chimps to humans.

Their final findings were published two years later in Nature magazine2. In this article, they concluded that wild chimps had been infected simultaneously with two different simian immunodeficiency viruses which had "viral sex" to form a third virus that could be passed on to other chimps and, more significantly, was capable of infecting humans and causing AIDS.

These two different viruses were traced back to a SIV that infected red-capped mangabeys and one found in greater spot-nosed monkeys. They believe that the hybridisation took place inside chimps that had become infected with both strains of SIV after they hunted and killed the two smaller species of monkey.

They also concluded that all three 'groups' of HIV-1 - namely Group M, N and O (see our strains and subtypes page for more information on these) - came from the SIV found in P. t. troglodytes, and that each group represented a separate crossover 'event' from chimps to humans.

How could HIV have crossed species?
It has been known for a long time that certain viruses can pass between species. Indeed, the very fact that chimpanzees obtained SIV from two other species of primate shows just how easily this crossover can occur. As animals ourselves, we are just as susceptible. When a viral transfer between animals and humans takes place, it is known as zoonosis.

Below are some of the most common theories about how this 'zoonosis' took place, and how SIV became HIV in humans:

The 'Hunter' Theory
The most commonly accepted theory is that of the 'hunter'. In this scenario, SIVcpz was transferred to humans as a result of chimps being killed and eaten or their blood getting into cuts or wounds on the hunter. Normally the hunter's body would have fought off SIV, but on a few occasions it adapted itself within its new human host and become HIV-1. The fact that there were several different early strains of HIV, each with a slightly different genetic make-up (the most common of which was HIV-1 group M), would support this theory: every time it passed from a chimpanzee to a man, it would have developed in a slightly different way within his body, and thus produced a slightly different strain.

An article published in The Lancet in 20043, also shows how retroviral transfer from primates to hunters is still occurring even today. In a sample of 1099 individuals in Cameroon , they discovered to ten (1%) were infected with SFV (Simian Foamy Virus), an illness which, like SIV, was previously thought only to infect primates. All these infections were believed to have been acquired through the butchering and consumption of monkey and ape meat. Discoveries such as this have led to calls for an outright ban on bushmeat hunting to prevent simian viruses being passed to humans.

The Oral Polio Vaccine (OPV) theory

Could production of the oral polio vaccine

have contributed to the spread of HIV?
Some other rather controversial theories have contended that HIV was transferred iatrogenically (i.e. via medical interventions). One particularly well-publicised idea is that polio vaccines played a role in the transfer.

In his book, The River, the journalist Edward Hooper suggests that HIV can be traced to the testing of an oral polio vaccine called Chat, given to about a million people in the Belgian Congo, Ruanda and Urundi in the late 1950s. To be reproduced, live polio vaccine needs to be cultivated in living tissue, and Hooper's belief is that Chat was grown in kidney cells taken from local chimps infected with SIVcmz. This, he claims, would have resulted in the contamination of the vaccine with chimp SIV, and a large number of people subsequently becoming infected with HIV-1.

Many people have contested Hooper's theories and insist that local chimps were not infected with a strain of SIVcmz that is closely linked to HIV. Furthermore, the oral administration of the vaccine would seem insufficient to cause infection in most people (SIV/HIV needs to get directly into the bloodstream to cause infection - the lining of the mouth and throat generally act as good barriers to the virus).4

In February 2000 the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia (one of the original manufacturers of the Chat vaccine) announced that it had discovered in its stores a phial of polio vaccine that had been used as part of the program. The vaccine was subsequently analysed and in April 2001 it was announced that no trace had been found of either HIV or chimpanzee SIV.5 A second analysis confirmed that only macaque monkey kidney cells, which cannot be infected with SIV or HIV, were used to make Chat.6 While this is just one phial of many, it means that the OPV theory remains unproven.

The fact that the OPV theory accounts for just one (group M) of several different groups of HIV also suggests that transferral must have happened in other ways too, as does the fact that HIV seems to have existed in humans before the vaccine trials were ever carried out. More about when HIV came into being can be found below.

The Contaminated Needle Theory
This is an extension of the original 'hunter' theory. In the 1950s, the use of disposable plastic syringes became commonplace around the world as a cheap, sterile way to administer medicines. However, to African healthcare professionals working on inoculation and other medical programmes, the huge quantities of syringes needed would have been very costly. It is therefore likely that one single syringe would have been used to inject multiple patients without any sterilisation in between. This would rapidly have transferred any viral particles (within a hunter's blood for example) from one person to another, creating huge potential for the virus to mutate and replicate in each new individual it entered, even if the SIV within the original person infected had not yet converted to HIV.

The Colonialism Theory
The colonialism or 'Heart of Darkness' theory, is one of the more recent theories to have entered into the debate. It is again based on the basic 'hunter' premise, but more thoroughly explains how this original infection could have led to an epidemic. It was first proposed in 2000 by Jim Moore, an American specialist in primate behaviour, who published his findings in the journal AIDS Research and Human Retroviruses.7

During the late 19th and early 20th century, much of Africa was ruled by colonial forces. In areas such as French Equatorial Africa and the Belgian Congo, colonial rule was particularly harsh and many Africans were forced into labour camps where sanitation was poor, food was scare and physical demands were extreme. These factors alone would have been sufficient to create poor health in anyone, so SIV could easily have infiltrated the labour force and taken advantage of their weakened immune systems to become HIV. A stray and perhaps sick chimpanzee with SIV would have made a welcome extra source of food for the workers.

Moore also believes that many of the labourers would have been inoculated with unsterile needles against diseases such as smallpox (to keep them alive and working), and that many of the camps actively employed prostitutes to keep the workers happy, creating numerous possibilities for onward transmission. A large number of labourers would have died before they even developed the first symptoms of AIDS, and those that did get sick would not have stood out as any different in an already disease-ridden population. Even if they had been identified, all evidence (including medical records) that the camps existed was destroyed to cover up the fact that a staggering 50% of the local population were wiped out there.

One final factor Moore uses to support his theory, is the fact that the labour camps were set up around the time that HIV was first believed to have passed into humans - the early part of the 20th century.

The Conspiracy Theory
Some say that HIV is a 'conspiracy theory' or that it is 'man-made'. A recent survey carried out in the US for example, identified a significant number of African Americans who believe HIV was manufactured as part of a biological warfare programme, designed to wipe out large numbers of black and homosexual people.8 Many say this was done under the auspices of the US federal 'Special Cancer Virus Program' (SCVP), possibly with the help of the CIA. Linked in to this theory is the belief that the virus was spread (either deliberately or inadvertently) to thousands of people all over the world through the smallpox inoculation programme, or to gay men through Hepatitis B vaccine trials. While none of these theories can be definitively disproved, the evidence given to back them up is usually based upon supposition and speculation, and ignores the clear link between SIV and HIV or the fact that the virus has been identified in people as far back as 1959.

WHEN?
During the last few years it has become possible not only to determine whether HIV is present in a blood or plasma sample, but also to determine the particular subtype of the virus. Studying the subtype of virus of some of the earliest known instances of HIV infection can help to provide clues about the time it first appeared in humans and its subsequent evolution.

Three of the earliest known instances of HIV infection are as follows:

A plasma sample taken in 1959 from an adult male living in what is now the Democratic Republic of Congo.9
HIV found in tissue samples from an American teenager who died in St. Louis in 1969.10
HIV found in tissue samples from a Norwegian sailor who died around 1976.11
A 1998 analysis of the plasma sample from 1959 has suggested that HIV-1 was introduced into humans around the 1940s or the early 1950s; much earlier than previously thought. Other scientists have dated the sample to an even earlier period - perhaps as far back as the end of the 19th century.

In January 2000, the results of a new study presented at the 7th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections, suggested that the first case of HIV-1 infection occurred around 1930 in West Africa . The study was carried out by Dr Bette Korber of the Los Alamos National Laboratory. The estimate of 1930 (which has a 15 year margin of error) was based on a complex computer model of HIV's evolution. If accurate, it means that HIV was in existence before many scenarios (such as the OPV and conspiracy theories) suggest.

What about HIV-2? When did that get passed to humans?
Until recently, the origins of the HIV-2 virus had remained relatively unexplored. HIV-2 is thought to come from the SIV in Sooty Mangabeys rather than chimpanzees, but the crossover to humans is believed to have happened in a similar way (i.e. through the butchering and consumption of monkey meat). It is far rarer, significantly less infectious and progresses more slowly to AIDS than HIV-1. As a result, it infects far fewer people, and is mainly confined to a few countries in West Africa.

In May 2003, a group of Belgian researchers led by Dr. Anne-Mieke Vandamme, published a report12 in Proceedings of the National Academy of Science. By analysing samples of the two different subtypes of HIV-2 (A and B) taken from infected individuals and SIV samples taken from sooty mangabeys, Dr Vannedamme concluded that subtype A had passed into humans around 1940 and subtype B in 1945 (plus or minus 16 years or so). Her team of researchers also discovered that the virus had originated in Guinea-Bissau and that its spread was most likely precipitated by the independence war that took place in the country between 1963 and 1974 (Guinea-Bissau is a former Portuguese colony). Her theory was backed up by the fact that the first European cases of HIV-2 were discovered among Portuguese veterans of the war, many of whom had received blood transfusions or unsterile injections following injury, or had possibly had relationships with local women.

WHERE?
The question of exactly where the transfer of HIV to humans took place, and where the 'epidemic' officially first developed has always been controversial. Some have suggested that it is dangerous to even try to find out, as AIDS has frequently been blamed on an innocent person or group of individuals in the past. However, scientists remain keen to find the true origin of HIV, as most agree it is important to understand the virus and its epidemiology in order to fight it.

So did it definitely come from Africa?
Given the evidence we have already looked at, it seems highly likely that Africa was indeed the continent where the transfer of HIV to humans first occurred (monkeys from Asia and South America have never been found to have SIVs that could cause HIV in humans). In May 2006, the same group of researchers who first identified the Pan troglodytes troglodytes strain of SIVcpz, announced that they had narrowed down the location of this particular strain to wild chimpanzees found in the forests of Southern Cameroon13. By analysing 599 samples of chimp droppings (P. T. troglodytes are a highly endangered and thus protected species that cannot be killed or captured for testing), the researchers were able to obtain 34 specimens that reacted to a standard HIV DNA test, 12 of which gave results that were virtually indistinguishable from the reactions created by human HIV. The researchers therefore concluded that the chimpanzees found in this area were highly likely the origin of both the pandemic Group M of HIV-1 and of the far rarer Group N. The exact origins of Group O however remain unknown.

HIV Group N principally affects people living in South-central Cameroon, so it is not difficult to see how this outbreak started. Group M, the group that has caused the worldwide pandemic, was however first identified in Kinshasa, in the Democratic Republic of Congo. It is not entirely clear how it transferred from Cameroon to Kinshasa, but the most likely explanation is that an infected individual travelled south down the Sangha river that runs through Southern Cameroon to the River Congo and then on to Kinshasa, where the Group M epidemic probably began.

Just as we do not know exactly who spread the virus from Cameroon to Kinshasa, how the virus spread from Africa to America is also not entirely clear. However, recent evidence suggests that the virus may have arrived via the Caribbean island of Haiti.

Why is Haiti significant?
The AIDS epidemic in Haiti first came to light in the early 1980s, at around the same time that cases in the USA were being uncovered. Following the discovery of a number of Haitians with Kaposi's Sarcoma and other AIDS-related conditions, medical journals and books began to claim that AIDS had come from Haiti, and that Haitians were responsible for the AIDS epidemic in the United States.

These claims, which were often founded on dubious evidence, fuelled pre-existing racism in the US and many Haitians suffered severe discrimination and stigmatisation as a result. A large number of Haitian immigrants living in the US lost their jobs and were evicted from their homes as Haitians were added to homosexuals, haemophiliacs and heroin users to make the 'Four-H Club' of groups at high risk of AIDS.14

The emotionally-charged culture of blame and prejudice that surrounded HIV and AIDS in the early years meant that it soon became politically difficult to present epidemiological findings in a neutral and objective way. For many years the link between Haiti and the US epidemic was therefore dropped as a subject.

In March 2007 however, it returned to the public eye at the Fourteenth Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections (CROI) in Los Angeles. A group of international scientists presented data based on complex genetic analysis of 122 early samples of HIV-1, group M, subtype B (the most common strain found in the USA and in Haiti) showing that the strain had probably been brought to Haiti from Africa by a single person in around 1966; a time when many Haitians would have been returning from working in the Congo.15

Genetic analysis then showed that subtype B spread slowly from person to person on the island, before being transferred to the US, again probably by a single individual, at some point between 1969 and 1972. A paper published in October 2007 by Worobey and colleagues gave a 99.7% certainty that HIV subtype B originated in Haiti before passing to the US.16

It is possible that HIV had entered the US several times before subtype B took a firm hold (which would explain the infection of the St. Louis teenager in the early to mid-1960s), but it was the late 1960s / early 1970s transfer that is believed to be responsible for the widespread epidemic seen in the US today. Once the virus had established itself in the gay community, in would have spread fairly rapidly (anal intercourse carries a very high transmission risk), with transmission occurring within and between the US and Haiti, and internationally, until the original route taken by the virus was largely obscured.

Dr Michael Worobey, lead researcher in the study, claimed that his data was not intended to place any blame on Haiti, or on Central Africans, and stressed that none of the people who first transmitted HIV would have been aware they were infected. His work still received strong protests from one Haitian delegate at the CROI conference however, demonstrating the extent to which tracing HIV’s origins remains a politically sensitive exercise.

What caused the epidemic to spread so suddenly?
There are a number of factors that may have contributed to the sudden spread of HIV, most of which occurred in the latter half of the twentieth century.

Travel

International travel has undoubtedly played

a major role in the spread of HIV.
Both national and international travel undoubtedly had a major role in the initial spread of HIV. In the US, international travel by young men making the most of the gay sexual revolution of the late 70s and early 80s would certainly have played a large part in taking the virus worldwide. In Africa, the virus would probably have been spread along truck routes and between towns and cities within the continent itself. However, it is quite conceivable that some of the early outbreaks in African nations were not started by Africans infected with the 'original' virus at all, but by people visiting from overseas where the epidemic had been growing too. The process of transmission in a global pandemic is simply too complex to blame on any one group or individual.

Much was made in the early years of the epidemic of a so-called 'Patient Zero' who was the basis of a complex "transmission scenario" compiled by Dr. William Darrow and colleagues at the Centre for Disease Control in the US. This epidemiological study showed how 'Patient O' (mistakenly identified in the press as 'Patient Zero') had given HIV to multiple partners, who then in turn transmitted it to others and rapidly spread the virus to locations all over the world. A journalist, Randy Shilts, subsequently wrote an book17 based on Darrow's findings, which named Patient Zero as a gay Canadian flight attendant called Gaetan Dugas. For several years, Dugas was vilified as a 'mass spreader' of HIV and the original source of the HIV epidemic among gay men. However, four years after the publication of Shilts' article, Dr. Darrow repudiated his study, admitting its methods were flawed and that Shilts' had misrepresented its conclusions.

While Gaetan Dugas was a real person who did eventually die of AIDS, the Patient Zero story was not much more than myth and scaremongering. HIV in the US was to a large degree initially spread by gay men, but this occurred on a huge scale over many years, probably a long time before Dugas even began to travel.

The Blood Industry
As blood transfusions became a routine part of medical practice, an industry to meet this increased demand for blood began to develop rapidly. In some countries such as the USA , donors were paid to give blood, a policy that often attracted those most desperate for cash; among them intravenous drug users. In the early stages of the epidemic, doctors were unaware of how easily HIV could be spread and blood donations remained unscreened. This blood was then sent worldwide, and unfortunately most people who received infected donations went on to become HIV positive themselves.

In the late 1960's haemophiliacs also began to benefit from the blood clotting properties of a product called Factor VIII. However, to produce this coagulant, blood from hundreds of individual donors had to be pooled. This meant that a single donation of HIV+ blood could contaminate a huge batch of Factor VIII. This put thousands of haemophiliacs all over the world at risk of HIV, and many subsequently became infected with the virus.

Drug Use
The 1970s saw an increase in the availability of heroin following the Vietnam War and other conflicts in the Middle East , which helped stimulate a growth in intravenous drug use. This increased availability and together with the development of disposable plastic syringes and the establishment of 'shooting galleries' where people could buy drugs and rent equipment, provided another route through which the virus could be passed on.

CONCLUSIONS
It is likely that we will never know who the first person was to be infected with HIV, or exactly how it spread from that initial person. Scientists investigating the possibilities often become very attached to their individual 'pet' theories and insist that theirs is the only true answer, but the spread of AIDS could quite conceivably have been induced by a combination of many different events. Whether through injections, travel, wars, colonial practices or genetic engineering, the realities of the 20th Century have undoubtedly had a major role to play. Nevertheless, perhaps a more pressing concern for scientists today should not be how the AIDS epidemic originated, but how those it affects can be treated, how the further the spread of HIV can be prevented and how the world can change to ensure a similar pandemic never occurs again.

back to top
What's this? WHERE NEXT ? AVERT.org has more about:
The worldwide AIDS epidemic
The history of HIV and AIDS
Types, groups and subtypes of HIV
Evidence that HIV causes AIDS
Original page written by Annabel Kanabus & Sarah Allen. Updated by Bonita de Boer

References
Gao, F; Bailes, E; Robertson, DL; Chen, Y; et al. (1999) "Origin of HIV-1 in the chimpanzee Pan troglodytes troglodytes." Nature, Vol. 397, p. 436-44
Bailes et al. (2003) "Hybrid Origin of SIV in Chimpanzees", Science, Vol. 300, p. 1713
Wolfe, ND; Switzer, WM; Carr, JK; et al. (20 March 2004) "Naturally acquired simian retrovirus infections in Central African Hunters." The Lancet, Vol. 363, p. 932
Cohen, John (October 2000) "The Hunt for the Origin of AIDS" The Atlantic, Vol. 286 No. 4, p. 88-104
Blancou, P. et al. (2001) "Polio vaccine samples not linked to AIDS" Nature, Vol. 410, p. 1045-1046
Berry, N. et al. (2001) "Vaccine safety: Analysis of oral polio vaccine CHAT stocks." Nature, Vol. 410, p. 1046-1047
Chitnis, A.; Rawls, D. & Moore, J. (January 2000) "Origin of HIV Type 1 in Colonial French Equatorial Africa?" AIDS Research and Human Retroviruses, Vol. 16 No. 1, p. 5-8
Fears, D. (25 January 2005) "Study: Many Blacks Cite AIDS Conspiracy", The Washington Post.
Zhu, Tuofu, Korber & Nahinias. "An African HIV-1 Sequence from 1959 and Implications for the Origin of the Epidemic" Nature, 1998: 391: p. 594-597
KOLATA, Gina (28 October 1987) "Boy's 1969 death suggests AIDS invaded U.S. several times" New York Times
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Hello?
Did anyone take the time ?
Jonathan

I am sorry to inform you, but you have been rejected by the Sciforum community.

Please try again in another 6 months...

Hello?
Did anyone take the time ?
Jonathan

I certainly did. That was very good information - thank you for posting it.

Note that it shows just what a crackpot Wright is. He's no brain, nothing but mouth.

Thank you Read,
I hope that other members will consider basic biological method and information when reviewing my post.
I think Mr wright is not as much a crackpot as he is a very clear illustration of what is one of the biggest threats to modern civilisation as a whole.
Racial bigotry , avarace and greed will doom the populace on this planet and until we address