Hyperspace.

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Jaster Mereel, Sep 24, 2006.

  1. Jaster Mereel Hostis Humani Generis Registered Senior Member

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    I am a layman, so I probably won't understand many of your responses, but I was wondering if anyone who knows a great deal about this particular area of physics could tell me as much as they can, without forcing me to learn volumes of new material.

    I was thinking of a kind of hyperspace that would be useful for travel. A friend of mine suggested something (kind of) sounding like another dimension with spherical geometry instead of hyperbolic (which, he says, is the kind of geometry that the observable universe seems to have). Somehow, he says this would be useful for travel. Of course, the purpose of this Q&A was to come up with a (somewhat) useful and realistic method of functional FTL for a project we were working on, since neither of us believe that the social climate of the future will be conducive to very long, generational space travel, even one-way. He noted that, on an arbitrary realism scale from 1-100, Hyperspace occupied something around a 30, so it wasn't very realistic. Not even as much as, say, relativistic rocketry, but he still favors hyperspace for literary reasons.

    Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone can tell me as much as they can, in as close to layman's terms as possible. I would rather you told me yourself, though, since most links to this kind of information are either way over my head, or are completely useless, or based on pure science fiction. I have read some news articles about some NASA researchers studying possible hyperspace, so I know there is some serious theoretical work going into it.

    Thanks for your help.
     
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  3. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

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    I thought it was just science fiction myself (although you could look at probably-crank Heim Theory), but look forward to seeing what others say...
     
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  5. Jaster Mereel Hostis Humani Generis Registered Senior Member

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    After reading that article, it didn't sound like a "crank" theory, just a fringe one. True, it hasn't been peer-reviewed (I'm not sure why, since the article says that it makes many accurate predictions), but it still sounds mostly respectable, if not a little out there. A lot of the information was totally beyond me, though, and so I'd have to leave it to someone who knows what they are talking about to explain it.
     
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  7. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe I was a little harsh. I was thinking of other sources I've seen (the article is relatively pro Heim theory) which say it isn't even a 'theory' so much as one formula which could have been reverse engineered for all we know. At least, that's all that's been released so far. But no testable predictions.

    To be fair, I think the same has been said of string theory; that it's more a set of recipes than a scientific, falsifiable theory as yet.
     
  8. Vega Banned Banned

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    Burkhard Heim began to explore the hyperdrive propulsion concept in the 1950s as a spin-off from his attempts to heal the biggest divide in physics: the rift between quantum mechanics and Einstein's general theory of relativity.

    Well initially according to popular physics, moving through hyperspace would require a hyperdrive motor that would propel a craft through another dimension at enormous speeds. It could leave Earth at lunchtime and get to the moon in time for dinner. There's just one catch: the idea relies on an obscure and largely unrecognised kind of physics.

    Quantum theory describes the realm of the very small - atoms, electrons and elementary particles - while general relativity deals with gravity. The two theories are immensely successful in their separate spheres. The clash arises when it comes to describing the basic structure of space. In general relativity, space-time is an active, malleable fabric. It has four dimensions - three of space and one of time - that deform when masses are placed in them.

    In Einstein's formulation, the force of gravity is a result of the deformation of these dimensions. Quantum theory, on the other hand, demands that space is a fixed and passive stage, something simply there for particles to exist on. It also suggests that space itself must somehow be made up of discrete, quantum elements.

    Since general relativity and quantum theory are gigantic worlds unto themselves (and hardly on speaking terms with each other), it is not surprising that in order to unify these two theories as sub-theories of a larger theory physicists have envisaged many new consequences, chief among them being the hyperdimensional spacetime.
     
  9. Jaster Mereel Hostis Humani Generis Registered Senior Member

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    Well, while I already know about the rift between General Relativity and Quantum Physics, you seem to be a rather knowledgeable fellow. Could you explain Hyperspace theory to me a little bit? Also, in terms of realism, could you rate it on a scale from 1-100 (being that it's a matter of opinion, don't be shy). Thanks.
     
  10. Vega Banned Banned

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    Theoretically entering hyperspace would allow us to travel at limitless speeds. It is said by physicists that our universe is but one bubble in an ocean of universes surrounded by hyperspace where the laws of physics break down. Physicists beleive that we live in a multi-verse. Essentially if we can jump into hyperspace we can move faster then light.

    There are two theories of hyperspace, the first is jumping to a higher dimension where there is no light speed barrier, the second involves jumping to a higher dimension and use it as a short cut through our three spatial dimensions, much like the wormhole idea. It is generally thought that the first idea is simply a misinterpretation of the second, i.e. because of the short cut it seems like faster than light travel has been achieved

    The hyperspace is outside normal space, it shrinks distances, so say 100 metres becomes 1 metre. Although it might be better to adjust ratio dependant on gravity ie near a star 1:1, interstellar space 1:1000. This would stop people appearing to close to gravity wells and dying.

    The advantage of this hyperspace system is that it only compresses space, not time. This allows a ship to travel a vast distance in normal space, by travelling a much smaller distance in hyperspace. All travel happens in real time, so travelling takes as long as it takes.

    Range could be limited by either having 'capacitors' that charge or fuel. This would set a time limit on how long you can maintain a hyperspace field. They could also impliment a space version of the RAC or AA.

    I am afraid this will have to remain in the realm of science fiction for awhile until more extensive research is done. Even though the U.S government has recently shown interest in hyperspace research, it's still too early to measure the progress of the actual research on hyperspace along with its theories put together given how far we can stretch today's technology.

    I would currently rate it an optimistic 65...
     
  11. Jaster Mereel Hostis Humani Generis Registered Senior Member

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    A friend of mine actually talked about what hyperspace would be, theoretically. It sounds rather like the second explanation.

    Basically, what he said was that the observable universe has a hyperbolic geometry (i.e., it is finite, yet infinite in that you cannot determine exactly where it ends and where it begins), and that, if there were another dimension (almost another universe, but not quite) it may have a spherical geometry, where you could travel and travel, and eventually you would end up back where you started. He said that, in this manner, the distance in hyperspace would be much smaller than the distances in normal space, since the geometry of space itself would be different. It was way over my head. He's a physics major.

    p.s.- He rated it at around 30... he was definitely more skeptical.
     
  12. KneeltoErasmus Registered Senior Member

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    Theoretically, from the viewpoint of M-Theory, wouldn't moving in another dimension move you out of the membrane of the universe?

    I'd say unless we find out how to create a stable wormhole and fold space we're stuck with light speed as a max.
     
  13. Jaster Mereel Hostis Humani Generis Registered Senior Member

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    Light speed isn't even a max. You can't accelerate anything to that speed. Also, people seem to through around relativistic speeds in a very cavalier way, without seeming to recognize that producing enough energy to move at those kinds of speeds is enormously challenging to begin with. Hell, it's be a major feet of engineering just to accelerate to .05C, let alone .99C.
     
  14. KneeltoErasmus Registered Senior Member

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    I only say light speed is a max because of general relativity. It is possible, but may not ever be achieved by man.
     
  15. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

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    It is attainable for massless particles, e.g. light. Find a way to turn yourself into photons and your troubles are over.
     

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