http://joesufos.informantnews.com/ufo/brazmute.html

Here, you will find shocking photos and an artical on a human mutalation.


WARNING! THE IMAGES ON THIS LINK ARE EXTREMLY GRAPHIC AND DISTURBING! VIEW AT OWN RISK!


I find this to be very disturbing..... I am at a loss for words.

Is it the body that was found in the dessert?, the wounds on that didnt seem to accurate or advanced.

The last time i looked at those pictures i was scarred for life, couldn't eat for weeks.

When he says disturbing, he means it. The pictures are of a very "Dead" man, with his face torn off and mulilations across his body. I mention this because "Multilation" could mean just an in-grown toenail normally.

This is not an image for youngsters, I would moderate it, however it should really be viewer discression.

As for the actual subject... Theory suggested that previous animal mutilations that were supposedly the work of a "Chupacabra" were more likely to be the work of drug cartels making locals superstitious of drug grounds since animal mutilations didn't cause that much concern policewise.

However the image of the man with his face torn off would draw too many police to the scene to be used in a way of superstition, however it is possible that he was either a torture victim of either Rebels or Drug cartels, or had a servere wound and was attempting to get out of the reserve. (Like a gunshot to the arm)

It's possible that he then died there and the body was eaten/mutilated by animals tearing/eating the softer tissue areas. Not too much proof of UFO/Alien's.

[Edit]
Slight alteration to above other further thought, What if the Mulations are in fact caused by Blackmarket Plastic Surgens practicing their Dark arts for use in any forms of industry that involves criminals assuming other identites.

It could explain that the guy was potentially in an Operating theatre having his identity assumed before being dumped out in the wilderness.

There's only one word I can think of that describes my feelings about this . . .

. . . Fuck!

Yep.
Looks like a simple torture victim to me.

I don't see the big deal (as in why it must be aliens).
*shrugs*

I will never understand peoples complacency.

This is not a new happening, it was very reminiscent of the cattle mutalations.

There has been reports from abductee's seeing vats of human body parts, containers of deformed fetuses, reports stating the downed craft contained human body parts.

Why are people so complacent? Do they think there is a live amptuee to match up with those body parts?

Thousands and thousands of missing person, still not found. Does your complacency tell you these missing persons (children, runaways, babies etc.) are just walking around some large metropolis, living their lives and not showing up on government databases, not paying taxes etc.?

When will all this complacency end, when will people stop concerning themselves with daily menial tasks and start to pay attention to the things going on all around them?

As for the actual subject... Theory suggested that previous animal mutilations that were supposedly the work of a "Chupacabra" were more likely to be the work of drug cartels making locals superstitious of drug grounds since animal mutilations didn't cause that much concern policewise.

Sounds like an episode of Scooby Doo.

BobG,
Well people want a conspiracy, it's just sometimes the one they immediately point to isn't the correct one, therefore speculation is about "mixing it up".

And yes I guess it does seem like a ScoobyDoo plot, just need the menacing deranged "Human" to be unmasked and say:

"... and I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you pesky meddling kids".

**** why the ******* hell did i just look at those picture's again., damm my curiosity :mad:.

It does seem cause for concern though, i mean in all honesty, does it look like people of this earth did those things to this poor man?

I dont think so :confused:

I feel that most of you failed to read the artical before looking at the pictures themselfs.

How can someones entire organs be sucked out thur small holes?
Why the the amount of blood limited around the wounds?
Why would any human do this? And if he was a torture victem, what would be the point of sucking out his organs, removing parts of the ear and remove parts of the skin on the face.... this man would be long dead after anyone of these procedures.... thus he could of no longer be tortured as he would be DEAD....
And I am quite certain that Brazil does not have such precision tools to do such a cruel thing.


Quote from the artical: "The initial police report, however, was not extraordinary in nature except for the recognition that the body, although extremely mutilated, had not met with unusual violence; that is, there were no signs of struggle or the application of bondage of any kind."

Quote 2: "Encarnacion Garcia received copies of seven photos. I have included the five most revealing ones here with a description and commentary. The work of the perpetrators of this atrocity: the kinds of cuts made, the precision of the cuts, the removal of whole internal organs through small apertures, the lack of bleeding, the failure of the body to smell or decompose rapidly - all these are hallmarks of UFO-related animal mutilations. These peculiarities would seem to rule out Satanists, revenge- seekers or casual mutilators and go beyond even the capacities of a modern Jack the Ripper. "

It is quite the odd case indeed. Since we still do not what exactly what cuases cattle mutalations, this case falls into the very same catagory. But whatever is cuasing it, it just doesn't seem "of this world".

I guess that rules out torture then, this is VERY disturbing, with all the evidance people have regarding cattle mutilations, surely if everyone put there heads together this could be solved.

You people do not seem to remember that South America has been home to some very greusome past experiences that are of human origin.

http://www.geocities.com/~virtualtruth/condor.htm
Okay this is a bit conspiracised however there were thousands of people executed and disappearing.

That link proves nothing. Poeple vanish off the face off the earth all the time for starters. (not literally of course)

This "operation condor" lacks information concerning human mutaltion. I fail to see what it has to do with the subject at hand....

People vanish all the time... but to find such a thing as a mutalated human body that has the same evidence linked with cattle and other bizarre animal mutalations.........

Besides... this so called "operation condor" is set in the 1970.... the case we are talking about is quite recent. If you want someone to disappear off the face of the earth, you do not leave thier body lying in the middle of no where.


Assassinations and Bizzare Unexplainable Mutalations are 2 differnt things.

As I mentioned I can't suggest "Operation Condor" is what I believe, but I have seen video footage of ruined buildings that are filled with Skulls from those that "disappeared".

If covert cartels can cut the heads from people as apart of a method of making them disappear they sure as heck could torture someone or mutilate them. Heck the body could have been ejected from an aircraft and it could have been mutilated from the fall through the tree branches.

However all should note, without First person reports it's anyones guess, as apposed to the third party reports we always tend to see on these sites that are usually writeups of what someone told them, who was told by someone else.

A fall from any air craft would not produce such "injurys" to the body as seen in the photos... Plus, bones would be crushed, which was not mentioned in the artical.

Have you even taken the time to read the words on the link Stryderunknown? You seem to want to turn this into a missing person thread rather than Human related UFO mutalations.

It seems that these photos alone are UNEDITED or fake (but you never know). What would one have to gain by saying that a man with missing organs, ears and muscle tissue was found in Brazil? Besides the only fake photos at the moment we have to worry about is alein autopsies, inwhich hundreds of movie studios have proved that they can easily fake them. This is however, the first case I personaly know of, of human mutalation.

But I bet within the next few years, more human mutaltion cases will pop up. And again like any UFO or Alien related tibit, 99% of them will be fakes or hoaxs.

Those pictures are hot.

Human related UFO mutalations
Haha, ufo mutilations.

The whole "ufo" angle relies on animal mutilations being ufo related. Throughout the article thats the only tie that is made "this is very similar to what has been seen in animal mutilations" like "everyone knows its aliens that mutilate animals".
They can't use the similarity between this mutilation and the animal mutilations as evidence that aliens did it, thats so idiotic. If we already accepted aliens mutilated the animals we'd be a pretty easy sell obviously. It wouldn't be a stretch at all.
As if anyone's going to be at home thinking "well obviously aliens mutilated those cows, but I think its a bit far fetched to suggest aliens mutilated this guy *snort* I mean really". This "article"(and I don't even like calling it that) reads as if that is its target audience, people who fully accept aliens mutilated animals but need convincing that they also mutilated this man.
Its mind numbingly retarded. No such audience would exist.

That said, it could have been aliens, how the fuck would I know? Doesn't change the fact that the article is really stupid though.

well, cow mutalations have been reported since the 60s, no modern technology on earth could of done such things to thoes cows back then. And the same is ALMOST true today.

I do not accept something just becuase some source tells me it is aliens....
BTW you seem to of quoted me wrong, I was actully trying to say "Mutalation cuased by aliens."

You must of known what I ment, but you seem to of wanted to post a post in attemp to foolishy steer the conversation from any thruth what-so-ever.

FYI: no audience exists becuase poeple like you refuse to open your mind for once in a life time.

I mean no audience who believes in aliens mutilating cows would have trouble believing in aliens mutilating a brazillian.
The article relies on the assumption that everyone accepts that aliens mutilate cows, but some might not accept they mutilated this man, which is why it's amateurish and stupid.
People either believe aliens come to earth and mutilate things or not.

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2004/10/81910.php

please take the warning seriously.

That stiff shows the usual signs of having bezn eaten by insect larvae etc. Flies lay eggs in orifices, and the soft tissue around the orifices rots, so the eyes, nose, mouth ears, and anus are always degraded. Any wounds will also suffer the same, so we may also see similar degradation of tissue elsewhere, unless we expected the victim to have died of a heart attack, or some other non-traumatic cause.

The organs would be eaten away by the maggots that grow from the insect larave, this is why seemingly large organs get out through small holes, they go out piece by piece, as young flies.

Jesus, you people who think aliens did this must live sheltered lives. You should get out more, and experience some real life, rather than guessing how you think things should be, and making wild assumptions when the world doesn't look right, in the view that you have of it, from your armchair, to your window.

Oh Goodness Phlogger, maybe we should call these maggots, intelligent surgically equipped maggots.
You are a real piece of work.
ROFLMAO

"body could have been ejected from an aircraft and it could have been mutilated from the fall through the tree branches."

I thought the body was found in the middle of the dessert?

Phlog, your explaination kind of reminds me when I moved a dead rat with a stick when younger, to see what I thought was it's intestines fall out... until the ball of pseudo-tract started wriggling. I agree that maggots will find the easiest way out of body, if a section is wrotting it's easier for them to chomp. (as well as into it).

Simply everybody that believes it's aliens believes "The equipment used is too advanced" however the reality is far different, barbarism has been round for centuries and it didn't need any guise of spaceage tools.

So the victims (including cattle) weren't grotted with a rope, however Cattle "Jump" when being herded and notibly can even push each other over the edge of ravines. They can get injured on their own attempting to leap a fence and then bleed to death through a severed artery.

(Btw, I'm only this morbid around Halloween)

Phlog, your explaination kind of reminds me when I moved a dead rat with a stick when younger, to see what I thought was it's intestines fall out... until the ball of pseudo-tract started wriggling. I agree that maggots will find the easiest way out of body, if a section is wrotting it's easier for them to chomp. (as well as into it).

Simply everybody that believes it's aliens believes "The equipment used is too advanced" however the reality is far different, barbarism has been round for centuries and it didn't need any guise of spaceage tools.

So the victims (including cattle) weren't grotted with a rope, however Cattle "Jump" when being herded and notibly can even push each other over the edge of ravines. They can get injured on their own attempting to leap a fence and then bleed to death through a severed artery.

(Btw, I'm only this morbid around Halloween)


So you are saying, cattle themselves are the cause of the "cattle mutilations" phenomina?

So you are saying, cattle themselves are the cause of the "cattle mutilations" phenomina?

It's natural causes, plain and simple. It just looks a bit weird, but then, nature is. Some animals just up and die. When they do, they start to rot, get infested with various creatures, and these are the results.

I'm sure there's a web site with the results of FBI experiments on this. People leave their body to medical science are sometimes left out in the open, so various effects can be measured in an attempt to determine time of death more accurately. This include predation, rotting, and infestation by maggots, all of which produce the images we see here. Go research, it's all there. And when I say that, I mean on reputable, not crank, web sites.

It's natural causes, plain and simple. It just looks a bit weird, but then, nature is. Some animals just up and die. When they do, they start to rot, get infested with various creatures, and these are the results.

I'm sure there's a web site with the results of FBI experiments on this. People leave their body to medical science are sometimes left out in the open, so various effects can be measured in an attempt to determine time of death more accurately. This include predation, rotting, and infestation by maggots, all of which produce the images we see here. Go research, it's all there. And when I say that, I mean on reputable, not crank, web sites.

Hmm....to be honest, ive not read to deeply into cattle mutilations, but a while ago i bought some back issues of "ufo magazine", and in them is ton's of articles and accounts of these incidents, so ill have a read of them toninight.

I highly doubt the cause of the injuries are "natrual" :p

Yes, cattles entire internal organs get eaten by maggots over night and eat thur BONE in perfect drill hole sizes.

All in one night....
I would love to meet these super maggots.

And if maggots ate this poor mans body, I am surprised on how selective they where about "WHAT THEY ATE".

So it looks like evidence of aliens to you merely because it is brutal and inhumane to do such a thing? Silly.

So it looks like evidence of aliens to you merely because it is brutal and inhumane to do such a thing? Silly.


The cattle that are mutilated arent hacked at with some weapon, they are found (often near ufo sightings) with PRECISE incisions and organ removal.

Yeah, humans are more than capable of mutilating stuff for a prank/hoax or even "just for a laugh", but something is doing these "mutilations" to these animmals, and i dont think the culprits are human!

Does that mean all mass genocide is done by aliens too? If that was the case why was everyone looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in the first place?

:rolleyes: Where is the relavence in that statement?

The relavence is simple, There are many human monsters out there why do we need to invent "alien" ones?

invent....? you can't invent something that already exist.

The 'precise' part is just a factoid reported by a crank magazine. Don't give it too much credence,

Also, the 'overnight' bit is spurious. Farmers don't inventory their livestock every day, uness they are milking cows, which would be missed as they are milked regularly. Cattle raised for meat production are allowed to roam, and not counted accurately every day. So, does the article specify what type of cow they were?

It's simple, there is evidence for this type of degradation happening naturally in humans and animals, but there is no evidence for aliens perfomaing the mutilation. So it's just a flight of fancy to leap to 'aliens did it', and shows a lack of understanding of the real world.

You are wrong, many of the cases that have been reported happen overnight, AFTER the farmers took count.

And are we to assume that a preditor did it? No, no bite or claw marks, and the lack of blood is a dead give-away.

Is some sick mind human doing it? Possible, but highly unlikely, considering this is a world wide phenomenion.

phlogistician, you are a fool, who doesn't know anything.

The 'precise' part is just a factoid reported by a crank magazine. Don't give it too much credence,

Also, the 'overnight' bit is spurious. Farmers don't inventory their livestock every day, uness they are milking cows, which would be missed as they are milked regularly. Cattle raised for meat production are allowed to roam, and not counted accurately every day. So, does the article specify what type of cow they were?

It's simple, there is evidence for this type of degradation happening naturally in humans and animals, but there is no evidence for aliens perfomaing the mutilation. So it's just a flight of fancy to leap to 'aliens did it', and shows a lack of understanding of the real world.


:eek: :rolleyes:

Incredible....

The 'precise' part is just a factoid reported by a crank magazine. Don't give it too much credence,

Also, the 'overnight' bit is spurious. Farmers don't inventory their livestock every day, uness they are milking cows, which would be missed as they are milked regularly. Cattle raised for meat production are allowed to roam, and not counted accurately every day. So, does the article specify what type of cow they were?

It's simple, there is evidence for this type of degradation happening naturally in humans and animals, but there is no evidence for aliens perfomaing the mutilation. So it's just a flight of fancy to leap to 'aliens did it', and shows a lack of understanding of the real world.

In England, farmers dont go not seeing there livestock for days, hence most mutilated cattle are found well within 24 hours.

I was reading that a farmer had 500 sheep stolen, he only left them for 4 hours, he said it would have needed many heavy duty lorrys' to have done this, yet there were no tire tracks or anything! the only way they could have been stolen was from the air!.

Was also reading about whale/dolphin mutilations, most are fisherman etc, but there were a few strange cases!

Autopsy's carried out on these animmals RULE OUT!!!! predators being the cause, and also it rules out maniacs using crude tools to mutilate the cattle, im refering to the "mystery" cases, not cases where the culprit is a twisted man

Do you have a link to these sea creature mutalations? I would love to read it.

I just spent time sometime reading this: http://luvvy12.tripod.com/ufoaliensamongus/id6.html

Not the most accurate of tesimonys, but it was very interesting to read.

The article is in a magazine, ill scan it in tommorow and email it to you (or post it hear).

Very interesting link!

Here is a link for the skeptics, that gets right to the point.

http://www.geocities.com/igufon/ufo9.html

You should read this phlogistician.

Even if they were Ming the Merciless on his wedding day, i still dont think they would get the point :p

In England, farmers dont go not seeing there livestock for days, hence most mutilated cattle are found well within 24 hours.

Yes they do. I often go walking on the North Yorks Moors, where sheep are left to roam freely and graze. They ARE NOT counted daily. Cattle are often left alone for days at a time if they have grass to graze on. It's only milking cows that would be missed so quickly. Where do you get your ideas from? Not experience, obviously.

I was reading that a farmer had 500 sheep stolen, ... the only way they could have been stolen was from the air!.

Got a reputable source for this story?

Was also reading about whale/dolphin mutilations, most are fisherman etc, but there were a few strange cases!

Actually, most are not caused byfisherman, but natural causes again. Everything that lives in the sea, dies at some point. When larger animals, such as whales, and whale sharks die, occasionally, they'll rot, and wash ashore. The worst decay is always found around the orifices, and in particular, in whales and sharks, particularly around the gills, as this is a large area of opening. Predation by small fish, and sea birds striips the soft tissue, leaving a rotten, bloated, unrecognisble carcass, that looks more than a little disturbing. It's these carcasses that fuelled legends of sea monsters among the superstitious. Congratualtions, you have the same mindset as the 'here be dragons' types!

Autopsy's carried out on these animmals RULE OUT!!!! predators being the cause, and also it rules out maniacs using crude tools to mutilate the cattle, im refering to the "mystery" cases, not cases where the culprit is a twisted man

Natural causes also means heart attacks, disease, and illness, death doens't always have to be violent. Once maggots have eaten away the organs, there's not a lot left to autopsy, so original cause of death is difficult to determine. There is no reason to assume tha the lack of organs is what killed the animal however. The two events are disconnected.

Natural causes also means heart attacks, disease, and illness, death doens't always have to be violent. Once maggots have eaten away the organs, there's not a lot left to autopsy, so original cause of death is difficult to determine. There is no reason to assume tha the lack of organs is what killed the animal however. The two events are disconnected.


Have you even bothered to look at ANY OF THE LINKS in this thread so far. Your not getting the picture here phlogistician. Either crawl out of your hole for once, or go back in it and stay there for good.

If it says so on a ufo website then it must be true!!

That last site sounded like an interesting work of fiction. I am not being close minded, I am asking for more reputable evidence.

A link of my own
http://skepdic.com/cattle.html

As it has been said before, there are those ET's that you can trust with your kids and cows and there are those ET's that you cannot trust...period.

How can someones entire organs be sucked out thur small holes?I highly doubt the cause of the injuries are "natural"

Eh well looking past Phlogistician's description, I believe there was an incident involving a close cousin of the ebola virus. Although I'm not impling that it was done with this phage but what this virus can do is liquify a person's organs (including its brain) and that person would literally bleed their organs out of every opening in their body including the penis, anus, vagina, eyes, ears, mouth and even the pores on its skin. This is obviously a lethal virus and while it may not be the same situation as what this person in the link was exposed to, it is very possible to "suck" out someone's organs even WITHOUT techonology. For those of you who don't know, pores are much smaller than those "small holes" on that man's body.

Why the the amount of blood limited around the wounds?

Good question. My guess could be they were devoured (the pools of blood that is) by an animal or cleaned up by whomever could have murdered him (if this was a murder).

Why would any human do this?

Umm...why would any human kill another one? Why did Hitler do what he did to the Jews? Because humans are fucked up that's why (and yes I'm including myself).

this man would be long dead after anyone of these procedures.... thus he could of no longer be tortured as he would be DEAD....

Unless his ears and skins was ripped off before his organs were sucked out. As well he could be a victim of an example set up by some organization (the mob? lmao) to scare others. In this case they would want to mutilate him as much as possible whether or not he was already dead.

The initial police report, however, was not extraordinary in nature except for the recognition that the body, although extremely mutilated, had not met with unusual violence; that is, there were no signs of struggle or the application of bondage of any kind."

Simply could have been knocked out by force, or by drugs.

Yeah, humans are more than capable of mutilating stuff for a prank/hoax or even "just for a laugh", but something is doing these "mutilations" to these animmals, and i dont think the culprits are human!

You really are sheltered then aren't you?


Anyways to top it off for all of you who keep saying this can't be done by humans and that no humans could possibly pull off such mutilation. Well you'd really be surprised. I recommend looking up Emmett Till (surprised if you don't know who he is). Take a look at his picture when they found him dead, and don't forget that the killers did that to him with their bare hands. His own mother couldn't recognize him if it wasn't for the ring on his finger.

You know, you don't see this stuff on the news anymore because of people like you. Most cattle farmers don't even report these incidents anymore, because nothing can be done about it.

This has been going on for 200 years... this happens more than you think. Even top scientific minds cannot figure it out. And if they can't, then what makes you people think you can. Scientists has clearly ruled out that these cow are mutilated in such a way that no human, or natural predator found on this earth (or virus or maggots) could of done this.

Modern Science cannot figure this out, at least the science that governments are hiding from us. Still doesn't explain that this has been going on for 200 years.
To quote Votorx a few times:

Simply could have been knocked out by force, or by drugs. <----- "although extremely mutilated, had not met with unusual violence"

Good question. My guess could be they were devoured (the pools of blood that is) by an animal or cleaned up by whomever could have murdered him (if this was a murder). <----- No animal tracks, no human foot prints, and I'd like to see you clean up that much blood in dirt or sand and leave no trace. Animals won't even go near these corpses, flies refuse to land on them.

For those of you who don't know, pores are much smaller than those "small holes" on that man's body. <-------- Really Dr Watson! I had No IDEA. No virus of any kind, has been know to jump around the world killing cattle and other critters, over night, by boring selected holes into the bone... and somehow make every oragan and drop of blood VANISH off the face of the earth. You know I not some nut who belives everything out there, I've done more real research on this than I possibly can. The next best thing would be going out to a see a actual mutalited cow.

http://www.crystalinks.com/animal_mutilation.html
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/catmute.html
http://www.stormpages.com/brainstrain/mutilation.html
http://www.ob1.com/fyfecow.html
http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/ufoanim.htm

And even reports in my own province of Alberta: http://www.ufobc.ca/Fern/cattlereports.htm
This link has some amazing pictures and personal reports.

This next link has nothing to do with cattle mutalitions, but it shows alot of News Paper Clippings converted to text: http://www.ufobc.ca/Reports/Collection/index.htm

Modern Science has pretty much figured out it's sicko humans doing it and therefore don't waste their time contemplating about sicko aliens.

Namely why should a scientists bother researching something that has already had multiple research groups and government organisations look into that have come up with the usual result of "natural causes". Admittedly I suppose it must seem to some observers that the governments "Must" be lieing to come up with a "Natural Cause" sentiment when a local police/sheriff departments autopsy suggests something else, however who has the better lab to test for results???

Blah blah blah.

Oh, and I am sure the USA government is going to tell you what they really know when it comes to outside threats.

Natural Cuases is a buncha lies. Havn't you been paying ANY ATTENTION?
Did you even bother to check out one little link?

I agree with Stryder's theory of drug cartel business and psycho humans.
I see no need for aliens there.
In the old ages if you couldn't understand something -> ACT OF GOD
nowadays it is -> ACT OF ALIENS
religious people... never change... :rolleyes:

Sorry, but human involment just does not fit. How many times do I have to repeat myself.

You poeple are clearly not looking into any of this, rather you are just making up excuses that attempt to debunk the truth.

It doesn't fit to you, but it fits to me and Stryder.
The truth is out there :m:

You both can come up with a million explainations, and I can repeat myself a million times. But there is more excuses that say Alien didn't do it, than excuses that they did. So clearly, poeple are refusing the truth.

You are just a Crazy Canuk and I am a reality error, Stryder is a nice example of a Cybernautic Hologram.
How do you think to who people will believe => you or us?
Of course you! Stupid world...

"Modern Science has pretty much figured out it's sicko humans doing it and therefore don't waste their time contemplating about sicko aliens."

Have they? :rolleyes:

Im really surprised at some of the suggestions and examples that have been put forward here by the skeptics.

A Canadian, ill scan the article in tommorow, sorry for the delay.

Did you scan that artical Star One? I am still reved to read it :D

Feel free to post it in here.

You know, you don't see this stuff on the news anymore because of people like you.
... or because it doesn't happen.

Most cattle farmers don't even report these incidents anymore, because nothing can be done about it.

Absolute rubbish. My uncle has thousands of sheep. If space aliens were coming down and cutting up his sheep believe me he would report it. He needs them to make a living.

Even top scientific minds cannot figure it out. And if they can't, then what makes you people think you can. Scientists has clearly ruled out that these cow are mutilated in such a way that no human, or natural predator found on this earth (or virus or maggots) could of done this.

What "top scientific minds" ?

Modern Science cannot figure this out, at least the science that governments are hiding from us. Still doesn't explain that this has been going on for 200 years.

Saying it over and over doesn't make it true. Modern science has figured it out, you just refuse to accept it. I guess it would make the world less interesting to you.

The official investigations done have found nothing mysterious happening. Oh wait, they must be in on it too. :rolleyes:

Natural Cuases is a buncha lies. Havn't you been paying ANY ATTENTION?
Did you even bother to check out one little link?

I have checked your links and they are all ufo/new age websites. Do you have one that is a bit more reputable? Some of us don't believe absolutely everything we read.

Absolute rubbish. My uncle has thousands of sheep. If space aliens were coming down and cutting up his sheep believe me he would report it. He needs them to make a living.

Clearly his sheep are not being adbucted eh? yes? My pet cats have not been abuducted, so.... whats a guy to do?

What "top scientific minds" ?
Poeple much smarter than you and me.

Saying it over and over doesn't make it true. Modern science has figured it out, you just refuse to accept it. I guess it would make the world less interesting to you.

The official investigations done have found nothing mysterious happening. Oh wait, they must be in on it too.
Modern science has not proved it was UFO or Aliens, but they have said OVER AND OVER again, this is not done by any know natural preaditor, and no evidence suggests it was or could of been done by a humans so far. There is a thing called autopsys, forensic science and even witness testimony that leans it away from any possible human factor.

All we get are poeple claiming "Oh, it is some mythological beast", "No, no, it must be a virus", "No, its just natural cuases of death and maggots and other scavangers cleanout selected areas of the organs in less than 24 hours". It seems that poeple want to deny the truth than to really accept it.

Official Investigations.... The US gov. denies the existance of area 51 and anything that goes on in there. Do you really think they are going to tell you anything about what they really know about our "out of town" visitors.

Clearly his sheep are not being adbucted eh? yes? My pet cats have not been abuducted, so.... whats a guy to do?

So you completely ignored my point.


Poeple much smarter than you and me.

So a ufo website says. I want to know who these people are.

Modern science has not proved it was UFO or Aliens, but they have said OVER AND OVER again, this is not done by any know natural preaditor, and no evidence suggests it was or could of been done by a humans so far. There is a thing called autopsys, forensic science and even witness testimony that leans it away from any possible human factor.

Who is "modern science"? The mutilations have been investigated and natural causes were found. Oh you must be referring to your ufo websites. Again, show me some credible evidence.


All we get are poeple claiming "Oh, it is some mythological beast", "No, no, it must be a virus", "No, its just natural cuases of death and maggots and other scavangers cleanout selected areas of the organs in less than 24 hours". It seems that poeple want to deny the truth than to really accept it.

Mythological beast? Who thinks it is a mythological beast?

Official Investigations.... The US gov. denies the existance of area 51 and anything that goes on in there. Do you really think they are going to tell you anything about what they really know about our "out of town" visitors.
Yes yes it's a big conspiracy. You are not after the truth you just want to reinforce the ufo fantasy.

http://www.parascope.com/articles/0597/mute2.htm

though i suppose he is in on the "cover up" *rolls eyes*

:-)

shaman_,
My resources are more than just internet websites. I have seen news reports, documentaries, and have read a few books.
I actually plan on contacting this man: http://www.ufobc.ca/Fern/cattlereports.htm ,as he is in the same area as me.

And just because your uncle has farm land and live-stock, does not mean his sheep are, or ever will, be abducted. My Dad, too, grew up on a cattle and pig ranch. He has never seen anything out of the ordinary. What does it mean? Nothing. As world wide as this phenomenon is, it does not mean you need to start hiding your live-stock in the basement of your home. Mutilations are normally localized, but still spread out over all over the world. There is no pattern really. I really just happens random. But most reported cases are becuase it happened 2-5 times on one farm. As far as the farmers who have had their live-stock mutilated, they clearly have not gone out of business due to it. There is still no reported case of an entire live-stock being mutilated except for one, which happened to 100's of chickens in one night, which was weird because no sounds where heard during the night, not even the farms guard dog made a sound the entire night. No signs of fright in the chickens either was observed, as feathers where not scattered all over the barn, which chicken tend to do when they are frightened.

The beast which I speak of is called the Chupacabra. Which most people claim is a sort of a cross between a kangaroo, a gargoyle, and the pop-culture conception of the alien "Grey." I personally have done no research on this so called beast. Nor do I care too for now.

Some people even claim that Bigfoot may be doing this too, which is false. As the Bigfoot type creatures are only spotted in wooded, unpopulated areas.

Well I relooked over the article and pictures but before I say what I need too...

A Canadian:

Still doesn't explain that this has been going on for 200 years.

People have believed in god and "miracles" have been happening much longer than these UFO incidents, why are you ruling out that this couldn't have been a divine example?

"although extremely mutilated, had not met with unusual violence"

According to the article they were referring to physical struggle and bondage. A head trauma is neither and would probably be very difficult to find in that mess, especially if parts of the brain was removed.

No animal tracks, no human foot prints, and I'd like to see you clean up that much blood in dirt or sand and leave no trace. Animals won't even go near these corpses, flies refuse to land on them

Well if this was done in the desert I have no doubt that these tracks could have been covered up by sand before the body was sound.

No virus of any kind, has been know to jump around the world killing cattle and other critters

Yes....they have...how do you think the Bubonic Plague started?

over night, by boring selected holes into the bone... and somehow make every oragan and drop of blood VANISH off the face of the earth

Did I say the virus could have done this? I just mentioning the fact that there are known viruses that can liquify organs that was it. Anyways with the possibility of chemical warfare an artificial virus could have done much worse and with a human participant the virus wouldn't have to drill those holes would they?

Sorry, but human involment just does not fit. How many times do I have to repeat myself

Maybe if you don't want to keep repeating yourself you should give reasons why humans aren't involved.

Anyways about this Article, just wanted to point a few things out:

Looking at the photos you can deffinetly see the stomache and lower intestines were missing which has been supposedly sucked out through the belly button. Now according to a lot of you this is impossible to do with modern techology.
1. The most less likely way is it was done by an Alien
2. The second to less likely way was it was done by a Virus as I suggest, but I'm just gonna say the killer wasn't into bio-engineering.

Ok, so how could it have been done? The article pratically says it all people. Obviously ya'll left something out cause I would have sworn you said no technology today could suck out the person organs. Well your own UFO article says they can:

Quote from article: "In other words, internal organs were removed or sucked somehow through these small circular incisions. Why such a technique? Some doctors today are using a similar method to remove diseased tissue and organs from their human subjects"

Well then I guess we do have technology to do such a thing. Actually that's really it, Lmao, cause that's all ya'll gave us that would suggest alien acitivity.

After wards the article just goes on and on of how no human could do this because it just doesn't fit into human nature, anyone who has half a brain should realize that human nature is bizzare enough to do anything.

Boris:

I find that article to be a hell of alot more disturbing than the human mutalation article. That is pretty...weird...could that suggest a second coming? Everything in the bible is symbolic and with the weapons we have the world really will go up in flames... >.>

1. Animal and Insects refusing to go near the bodies have been quite well documented. Here is an example, when my cat kills a mouse and leaves it outside my front door, flies begin to scatter around and on it within easily 2 hours.... the corpses they find clearly have been there at least 24 hours, and no insect, predator or scavengers, will not even go within a foot of the mutilated body.

2. Seeing as the cases fall into the paranormal subject, people just simply disbelieve that it could have anything to do something that we just don't know enough about. If you look at history, they said the earth was flat and witches where the real deal, boy did we prove them wrong. The witch example was a bad one, but technology has GREATLY improved since then. You must not underestimate what we can do now.

3. Forensic science is more amazing then you think. If a man gets pushed off a cliff 5 seconds before he was actully killed, they can prove that he died from some other factor before the fall. Even if it just a broken neck, which clearly would happen if you fell off a cliff. You are not giving forensic science a chance here.

4. As for Humans doing it, If you read the links, you would know why. I refuse to repeat myself for the hundredth time, this also falls into the same category as forensic science.

5. I did not say I believed in "La Chupacabra", but it is a fact that some people believe this is the/a cause of the mutilations

QUOTE: “Even today we are discovering newer and more dangerous viruses. The virus I mentioned above was discovered not too long ago, thank god it didn't become an epidemic..

- Viruses mainly spread from host to host, if the VIRUS theory is true, then the entire live stock will die. Which does not happen.

QUOTE: 200 years huh... people have believed in god for way longer than that but it still hasn't been proven true.

- I am not here to discuss the existence of god, please do not bring this up again, I have ruined friendships because of this subject. People believe aliens had something to do with Egyptian pyramids, but we know it is not true. Ancient hieroglyphs show “UFO” type objects, but that does not mean that they had anything to do with building the pyramids themselves.

To quote myself: “No virus of any kind”

Clearly I ment, that any virus on earth that we know of, can do such things.
If a virus is in a body, even if all blood is drained, we will still be able to find such existence that it was there. And yet, we find no existance of any new viruses in these bodies.

Err well you got my post before I changed it but I'll answer anyways...

the corpses they find clearly have been there at least 24 hours, and no insect, predator or scavengers, will not even go within a foot of the mutilated body.

Point out where is sayd that.

You must not underestimate what we can do now.

Oh Im doing the exact opposite, which is why I'm suggesting with the technology we have today, we can achieve that kind of mutalation.

As for Humans doing it, If you read the links, you would know why. I refuse to repeat myself for the hundredth time, this also falls into the same category as forensic science.

I have read and still don't see how human's can't do it.

Viruses mainly spread from host to host, if the VIRUS theory is true, then the entire live stock will die. Which does not happen.

Oh of course not, epidemics usually don't. An ebola break out in Africa killed a suprisingly low percentage of the population, even with the large amount of contact which happens there.

I am not here to discuss the existence of god, please do not bring this up again

Neither am I, I'm just poining out that the 2 centuries of alien cases shouldn't be grounds of their existence.

Sorry I posted that without actually intending to keep it up there.

I am not here to discuss the existence of god, please do not bring this up again, I have ruined friendships because of this subject. People believe aliens had something to do with Egyptian pyramids, but we know it is not true. Ancient hieroglyphs show “UFO” type objects, but that does not mean that they had anything to do with building the pyramids themselves.
So.. you think that one belief is more credible than other, but you have zero evidence on each. It could be a madened spirit, it could be a loony alien or it could be a psycho human. It all depends on belief, doesn't it? So I say it was a mythological beast arisen from the ashes of time to claim its' victims. Prove me wrong if you can, but I see no difference among the belief in aliens killing cattle, or demons or strange earth creatures doing it.

Oh Im doing the exact opposite, which is why I'm suggesting with the technology we have today, we can achieve that kind of mutalation.


Now tell me, how can any human do this within a 45 minute to 24 hour time frame, without being noticed, without bothering the other animals around, without being in a special lab, and without leaving ANY TRACE WHATSO EVER that it was done by man?

What? Next you are going to tell me that people in helicopters, used a rope on this cow (or human, or whatever), to lift it to another area or into "the tiny helicopter", do an advanced medical procedure to remove pointless body parts and organs, remove all blood, including drain the entire capillarys bone dry. And then drop the corpse back into the field WITH OUT any noise or rope marks (or signs of abuse) done onto the animal? In the dark of night, where the dimmest light will be spotted and the slightest noise will be heard, by any know human made air craft. And above all, they managed to do this within a 45minute to 24 hour time period, a few feet, or a even a mile away from the house of the residents of the poeple who own the farm.

Amazing, that humans can do all this.
Makes you wonder why wars wage on for months and even years doesn't it?
We have all the technology to do THIS, but yet we still use crappy, loud planes only equipped with "smart bombs."

Please, Go On....!!!

Lets assume it is humans, it still does not explain the fact this is world wide.

Lets say it is the USA government, doing tests.
Why would the US gov. steal cattle and other critters, when they can easily breed their own for this. Why kill cattle in odd ways in the dark of night, only to add to the mystery that aliens are real. Why ruin the USA ecomony to do foolish testing, when they could just as easily breed their own animal to do such testing.

Please........

Your only other option is some magical beast on this earth, or some magical virus.

>>>> it still does not explain the fact this is world wide.

could you give one instance of cattle mutilations happening in australia? one that has been reported in a newspaper? one that has no earthly explanation.

Wait a sec Canadian I think you misunderstood why I mentioned my uncle. Perhaps I didn't explain the reference properly.
It was a response to this,

Most cattle farmers don't even report these incidents anymore, because nothing can be done about it.

My point was that if it happened they would report it. If a farmer thinks that anything other than natural causes was killing his sheep/cattle they do something about it. They don't sit back and think "oh it's probably them aliens again so I won't worry about it."

I have never taken the Chupacabra stories too seriously as the descriptions from the eyewitness accounts are often completely different. Either there are lots of monsters running around or you can't rely on testimonies as evidence. I think the latter...

People report cattle mutilations to the local police/sheriffs all the time and even the countries scientists. And seeing as how no know natural occurrence can be accountable, they decide to give up on even reporting anything, as they know it will lead no where as the cause of these mutilations.

Boris2, I will have links for you ASAP, but I am currently busy playing Star Craft online. :)

But I must remind you, sheep are more common in Australia than cattle are. And it is fact that it cattle that are the most common animal that is mutilated. Which is wierd...

Do aliens know something about cows that we don't, or do they jusy prefer the taste more? *evil laugh*

But I will easily find you the same circumstances, in which of live stock of Australia are oddly mutilated.

Stay Intouch. :D

I think the point you keep missing Canadian is that your sources are unreliable. If everything on ufo websites were true then yes i agree it could not be done by humans/natural causes. Just because it's on a website doesn't mean its true.

The stories they tell on these sites and the supposed autopsies need to be verified. Also remember witness testimonies are not strong evidence at all.

You totally ignore official investigations done by qualified professionals yet instantly believe ufo sites where the evidence is not impressive. (A photo of a dead cow and a story to go with it.)

You have made statements like " top scientific minds cannot figure it out" and "Modern Science cannot figure this out" but you cannot show any evidence of this.

However, I am also interested in hearing some Australian examples. We are mainly a sheep nation but there is some cattle here.

Web links is all I can give for an example. It is not like I can tap into my brain and upload what I have seen from news reports and documentrys. :(

As for the Australian mutalations, I am having a lot of diffuculty finding anything on odd mutalition. Alot of UFO Reseach sites, but so far nothing on sheep or cattle mutalitions there.

Best I found, was 2 men found a dead kangaroo with a undetermind cuase of death and took it off the road, right before seeing a UFO. That really isn't nothing to go on.

I will keep looking later tonight, however.

Now tell me, how can any human do this within a 45 minute to 24 hour time frame, without being noticed, without bothering the other animals around, without being in a special lab, and without leaving ANY TRACE WHATSO EVER that it was done by man?
1. According to the article this whole act was done in at least 3 days, not a day as you just mention.

2. Within this interval of 72 hours one can take a body and do such procedures and put the body back into the middle of the dessert.

3. Don’t even suggest they need a specialized lab to remove the organs. A procedure that could have been done by the killer is called minimally invasive surgery that requires no more than several small tools for the incision and removal. Now if the killer wanted to remove the organ without damaging them then yes they might need some more evasive tools (a camera maybe) but even that can be done without a specialized lab.

4. If this was done in the desert I have no doubt sand would have blown over any tracks left by the man within the 3 days of the killing.

5. Now as for the cattle mutation, that is very ridiculous. You’re suggesting that the government has no reason for stealing cattle and that they can breed some of their own. Yet, those highly advanced aliens can’t? Lmao, come on. Lets say that they can’t for some reason, what suggests they need to dissect anything to get their information about the subject, or rather don’t you think they would have a better way of disposing the corpse after they were through? Or don’t you think they could deal with only few cattle rather than the thousands you’ve suggested, not even humans need that many test subject and we’re no where near as advanced as your aliens. Anyways, it would seem more likely for the government to steal the cattle or rather buy it from the farmers. It isn’t hurting the economy but rather helping it. Not too long ago there were agricultural surpluses and farmers were paid not to harvest crop and raise animals, so logically wouldn’t it be easier to get rid of these animals and use them as test subjects rather than paying millions of dollars to keep farmers from raising them? All corruption that’s still there in the government.

1. According to the article this whole act was done in at least 3 days, not a day as you just mention.

2. Within this interval of 72 hours one can take a body and do such procedures and put the body back into the middle of the dessert.

3. Don’t even suggest they need a specialized lab to remove the organs. A procedure that could have been done by the killer is called minimally invasive surgery that requires no more than several small tools for the incision and removal. Now if the killer wanted to remove the organ without damaging them then yes they might need some more evasive tools (a camera maybe) but even that can be done without a specialized lab.

4. If this was done in the desert I have no doubt sand would have blown over any tracks left by the man within the 3 days of the killing.



I was talking about cattle mutalitions for starters, if you actully took notice, you would of realized we stoped talking about the human mutalition case ages ago...

I am not even going to bother posting in this thread anymore. Why bother posting in Pseudoscience, if everyone is going to debunk every little detail. For once I would like to hear, "wow, that is amazing." Even the moderator here attempts to debunk everything....

Fine, it was humans ok.... satanic torture ceremonies or something right?

We have more evidence of UFOs and Mutalitions, yet threads on "the moon landing was fake" and "NASA faking Mars photos" seem to be more popular with you 'debunkies'.

I see there is no place for me here.

A_Canadian,
The reason for my responses to the posts is very simple, sometimes there are other reasons/methods to how something is done. If you can only see one, then obviously you're not looking hard enough.

The reason I suggest an alternative is because when these stories emerge on bulletinboards and websites, they don't undergo a "Peer review" scrutiny. Usually the "reports" find themselves placed there by people that have already generated an opinion and even include their own assumptions within the report, making most reports biased.

I'm in my own way trying to balance out what the reality is (or could be) as apposed to what one reporter "thinks" occured. Otherwise people might reference a thread from this forum on a particular topic as "completely credible" in the future when some inputs are clearly very questionable.

I don't attempt to pull your ideas/reports apart for a personal reason, but some things shouldn't be believed unless investigated by yourself and even then the person who investigates still has to deal with the scrutiny of what they know and have said as being the truth.

As for your place? Thats up to you, but I think your personal views on the topics should be different and should be capable of understanding other peoples differences of opinion. Otherwise we would all agree and where would the discussion be in that?

The only problems is you fail to accept any other possibility than alien involvement.

I accepted aliens once, when I was about 19-20. Then I had something occur that changed my opinion for life. Now I see them for what they are, absolute frauds. very elaborate ones I'll give you that, but frauds none the less.

If I told you all I had REAL PROOF of aliens and posted a photo, clearly, the majority of you all will easily try to contradict me.

Even if I saw it with my own eyes, even if the photo I got was clearly not falsed…

There will always be someone who denies it ever happened, it truly is pointless to post in sciforums.com concerning UFOs.

The debunkers and skeptics outweigh the believers… it is a lost cause.

Votorx, I accept other possibilities, but what these other have come up with, is truly ridiculous, if you are going to attempt to debunk something, at least show some intelligent reason as to why… instead of asking questions and such, that clearly have been asked already. I really hate repeating myself, yet you folks seem to want to ask the same questions over and over… Some of you even reply to the original post without even reading the whole thread or even looking at any of the links, though as stupid as most of these links may seems, it is amazing the time that people spent to make these web sites. True or not, something out there is unexplainable, yet no matter how hard someone can try, it is next to impossible to try and get them to think other wise. My time here is clearly wasted.

Why do you think that my version of a mythological beast is not possible? :(
Even if I saw it with my own eyes.
There will always be someone who denies it ever happened, it truly is pointless to post in sciforums.com concerning mythological beasts.
The debunkers and skeptics outweigh the believers… it is a lost cause.

If I told you all I had REAL PROOF of aliens and posted a photo, clearly, the majority of you all will easily try to contradict me..

People do tell us they have real proof. That 'proof' varies though, from the mundane, to the ridiculous. Some show evidence of anomolous radar trails, video, or pictures. Others however, offer much less compelling 'proof' and merely mumble gibberish and tell us they are pscyhically channelling aliens.

Being a scientist, I like quantities I can measure, and am a real fan of physical evidence. So far, there's no physical evidence, and what we can measure doesn't lead to a single explanantion.

On photos. The problem often here, is that all we are offered for the most part, are single pictures, often not that clear, and usually without context. Why we cannot get a series of pictures, which would give us an idea of flight path, in focus, to show us the shape of the craft, and with some landmarks or other landscape in scene, to give us idea of scale of the craft.

Video is never good quality either, is it, if you're honest. Strange lights in the sky captured on video, never seem to me that mobile, when they are filmed in context with other objects, buildings, or landscape. We usually only see motion, at high zoom, which we can attribute more to camera shake (my video camera has an x18 zoom, and holding that steady is pretty hard), and often defocussed, because the light source is so small, and so far away the auto-focus has trouble keeping up through the rapid zoom in, and we often end up with a fuzzy light source dancing around, or, if the camera is an older Sony camcorder, a lozenge shape, this being the defocussed shadow of the iris on the CCD.

So, if you did have good evidence, good picture, I'd love to see it. Don't say it won't sway us, we're scientists, and are prepared to change our mind in the face of good evidence. We just need more than a mumbling medium, or a false hypnotic memory to convince us.

A_Canadian,
You might think my skeptism means that I see from a skeptics viewpoint, however I have something I occasionally bring up in the forum that the only shred of evidence I have would be from getting a secondary Catscan to look at the alterations with the first that I had approx. a year ago.

The reason I had a scan, well it's a long and very unbelievable story since what it comprises of is to some as unbelievable as the alien encounters you mention. However to me it's been very real, very incapacitatingly real.

I have for the past 5-7 years had a team of individuals utilising hardware to generate a form of artificial telepathy on me. They have until this point remained 100% clandestine, they would not phone to explain their reasons, they would not stop to let me rest. To some such a suggestion of people working in shifts to watch/interact with a person over a radiological system would seem incomprehendisable.

They would suggest what I have been seeing/feeling/interacting with is nothing more than a mear dillusion and usually state the old Skeptics assertation of "seeking medical help". However the skeptics fail to understand that the Medical Profession can't help if they are being manipulated to misdiagnose based on the pseudo-generation of ailments and conditions. It's as if someone has taken the time to attempt to fill in the "exact textbook definitions" of a particular ailment in a question to have me "dealt with".

So IMHO such help is clearly not help, it would be like going to a doctor with a common cold and having them trying to remove an appendix to cure it.

As for the things I've seen, I've seen things that look solid that are manifested within my own brain through manipulation but I have also seen things that are manifested outside of my brain like Holograms that others could potentially see.
This is why to me things like Ghosts, Aliens and legendary old monsters are pretty much a "Scientific Possiblity" however what people should realise is they can not trust their first impressions because they can be manipulated to be an easy answer to coverup the truth (e.g. An Alien picture, might be stated to be an "Alien" but it might be hoaxed in an attempt to convince someone of "Aliens").

Throughout my time on this system I have seen areas of science in the press that have crossed into this region of Pseudo-Telepathy that aren't "black budget".

For instance the Robo-Rodent that was originally a cybernetic rat that could call through small holes that could help in saving people in fallen building scenarios.
The usage of sexual arousement in the rodent to making them complacent with an operator "handling them".

A different story involved a scientist that developed a kind of dish that emitted waveformations that could interact with the brain. His usage was playing waterfalls and soothing music, or hiding in the shadows to say "Boo" to his collegues.

More recently was the usage of Rodent brain cells in Neural-Networking were the cells themselves became apart of the network to process data.

(each of these stories I'm sure could have a link found to them since they are a little old now)

I mention these stories because singularly they are each a preportion to a puzzle, a Public understanding of how such "Non-Public" projects can be done in the backgrounds. I am still attempting to talk the people around that are doing this project to me into outputting a Public Admittal and change in their policy of business, however it's difficult to change things that seem set in stone to them.

The only thing I can suggest to them and others like them, is that their system that they follow now is an old and inadequate system. One that people cling to because they are scared of change. However as I've mentioned before the world as we know it has been opened to a faster rate of change thanks to the internet, and if society is going to have to cope with the same trend of change like Hardware and Software techniques have been over the past decade, then the systems they follow now should be scrapped, because they will not be able to cope with such significant alterations.

As for more on the mutilation front:
A film I was watching suggested that there are potentially "Escaped Convicts" that hide out in forests and remote places from the law. Anyone stepping into their territory potentially puts them at risk of being killed for what ever money/clothing/food they have and the way they are killed could be dependant upon the convicts original criminal past. (for instance a Serial murder etc)

http://www.presidentialufo.com/newpage2.htm

Flying Deers, How Cool. :D

Lmao, maybe santa clause does exist :bugeye:

in an infinite multiverse he does exist

well it's a long and very unbelievable story

You are right there.

And you suffering hallucinations etc explains a lot.

Phlogistician, why not bring evidence that it doesn't exist to the table.

I know why you commented is purely because of the contents of that one line, as any forms of written output explaining about what has happened might seem written with "being read" in mind. (Namely the particular way descriptions of characterisations are formed).

This is one of the main reasons why I had been rethinking about my ordeal in the sense that persons like you "Sheep" shouldn't know about such equipment, because you would only make a mockery of those used or abuse the usage yourselves.

However those abused suffer tortures as bad if not worse than those groomed by paedophiles when young, so please realise that you should not mock.

I'll ask you a simple question that should an answer be concluded would be proof enough of existance:

Can the current level of Technology generate a Cybernetic system that interacts with the human mind through some means of Artificial Telepathy?

I know that it can from the examples I mentioned in the previous post, but how about you?

Did any of you see "The Village?" I love that movie because it shows just how much a group of leaders in society can do to the minds of the people. Coincidently, the movie did involve mutilated animals and even a human victim; and it was all the idea of the leaders of that society. Muahaha.

Just as you say that some things you saw were fake, I can say all things that you saw were fake, or at least most of them; I can also say that the things you saw, those fake ones, were or were not induced by aliens. Well? It is fun to think this way but one can't function in a healthy manner with a state of mind like that. Stryder, can you provide any reasons why you believe things you saw were illusions, besides the mere possibility of such a thing? More like, was there something you saw and others said there was no such thing?

I'll ask you a simple question that should an answer be concluded would be proof enough of existance:

Can the current level of Technology generate a Cybernetic system that interacts with the human mind through some means of Artificial Telepathy?



No.

I know you believe such technology exists, but that belief is part of your delusion. Without extensive implants, the considerable number of neurons that would be needed to be stimulated to produce a coherent and controlled hallucination could just not be targeted.

You say you've had a CAT scan, more than one, did they find any implants in your brain? Any receiving devices?

Or, do you think it's possible to target thousands of neurons in a moving target, and remotely pump information into them? Of course you do, stupid question, but what other applications does this technology have, and why don't we see it applied elsewhere? That's major hardware, should it exist. If it were being trialled, why would 'they' pick you? Picking on random people isn't the way science is done, is it? Of course, if you mention some covert operation, that is leading towards paranoia, which is also a symptom often associated with your other symptoms.

I'm not denying that you have very realistic experiences, like I'm not denying that the girl I knew that said she was assaulted nightly by demons didn't. I do doubt that either of you have found the correct source of your torment, however.

Phlog,
There was a discussion on how to generate a "Super Neuron" by Dr Penrose some time back I believe. It involved the destruction of multiple cells membrane as a singular cells, the membrane would then regrow around all the cells nuclei's, making a multinuclei'd single cell.

It was suggested that interaction with such a supercell would be easier to work with than normal braincells that originally people had problems braking communication past the Bloodbrain barrier, where the flow of the blood generated electromagnetic interference in reception.

So it in all it was suggested that there was a way to develop a method without the use of implants.

As for why should they pick me?
Why should they pick anybody???

Quite simply it could be any reason, perhaps I jumped a queue in a supermarket, or happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm not suggesting they picked me to glorify my existance, if it was up to me I would have prefered them to pick someone else if of course I could live in the knowledge that some other poor guy is getting harassed by them.

In certain respects I hate the fact that such people have picked me, however I thank the chance to stop them hurting other people with the equipment, perhaps tieing their equipment up is actually a blessing Phlog, otherwise you might be on here.

Btw, CAT Scans are supposedly not the best scans for finding out about whats in a persons head. Apparently some things just don't show up, however I haven't actually got a response for anything being found since I was palmed off by one of those Receptionists doctors have that gave me the "You don't need to bother the doctor for your result, they said it was 'Okay'". I could never work out if that was "You are Okay" or "It's Okay they got the result", I'll find out eventually though.

Phlog,
There was a discussion on how to generate a "Super Neuron" by Dr Penrose

Ah, quantum effects in cognition. Yes, I'm aware of some of these theories, I nearly mentioned it yesterday, wrt the complexity of control.

OK, you are familiar with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, yes?

To control a mind, first you make a mathematical model of how it works. the creation of that model requires the brain to be measured, as the model is mathematical. It _must_ be a mathematical model, if we are to be able to use it for predictions. A model involving quantum effects cannot be used for prediction, therefore the validity of the model cannot be proven.(thanks to Chaos theory and Heisenberg, you can't accurately record quantum states, and any slight variation now, could mean a large deviation later.)

If you _could_ make a model somehow, gathering the data required here is an immense task, it would require SQID measurements of the source first, and then have to somehow account for braincells dying naturally, and synaptic re-routing. This model would have to be more than a logical model, it would also have to model the very biology of the brain. So onto control. Say we have a solid model of a brain, we can now predict what it can do, so we can give it stimuli, and predict how it will react, to create our control software.

We then need to be able to calibrate our machine, and software, and do all this remotely. This would require the proposed 'entangled particles' to use data teleportation. Again, data transfer would have to be near instantaneous, and massively in parallel, as again, Chaos rules, and delayed data means an inaccurate model.

So, we now have a perfect model of your brain. We have entangled particles at each synapse to measure the quantum state to feed into our model. We can manipulate our model, and now what data to send back to control. We can perhaps use the entangled particles to control transmission at the synapses, but we still have to control brain chemistry some how, it's not all quantum, but physical, and chemical too.

So, for you to really be the target of brain manipulation, some of the biggest
tasks and problems in physics need to be solved. Heisenberg circumvented. Chaos turned to order. Quantum teleportation made to work on a fairly massive scale, and computers to run it all that are really, really fast. (Quantum computers, realistically).

All this technology, to mess with your mind? Does that sound remotely feasible? It's no more feasible than the hypothesis of Jocariah who thinks he's a genetically altered hybrid for alien communication. You both suffer the same delusion, but interpret it different ways.


Btw, CAT Scans are supposedly not the best scans for finding out about whats in a persons head. Apparently some things just don't show up,

... and that's the best system there is available for imaging your brain, and it fails to see some things at the physical level. Now extrapolate the cost of making a machine that can capture all the data required at a quantum resolution, and honestly think, are 'they' going to point it at you, or George W?

Firstly Phlog your wrong for a few things.

Chaos can be order if look at over a small distance. For instance if you were to drive someone down a road with many turn-offs and you could randomly decide which one to take, the person in the seat next to you can view a form of order through the process of deduction. Namely every turn-off you pass you didn't take, and the turn-off they focus on is the next one in the road not the one right up the end.

Heisenberg's Principle of Uncertainty only works when your dealing with Single Universes, when your dealing with Multiworlds, the original uncertainty becomes a defined predestined universal constant, it's no longer chaotic, however Observation theory does declare that it could have chaotic factors when viewing somethings destiny so.

As soon as Multiworlds are brought into the equation it also deals with the complexities of modelling the brain, afterall if spacial folding is occuring to view predestined algorythms then obviously routing information around a brain would be possible to.
(Spacial folding would be what you assign as quantum teleportation. Heres a question for you, when the Australians teleported a particle across the room... Was the particle they received the "SAME" particle, or one from another universe?)

Admittedly the science would be an advanced one, but above all plausible (and not through paranoia).

Heres something I theorised on previously with Multiworlds:
Lets say you have a remote controlled car with a minicam mount and it's held by a computerised arm, which works on the same basis of Schrodingers Cat in the sense that exists as a multiworlds equipment setup.

In one universe the arm remains static, the Radio controller is within range of the car so that it can increase the cars speed, turn etc.
In the other universe the car is released by the arm so that it can run along the ground.

The theory here is that "IF" the information obtained from the universe with the arm still clenched for the movement of the car transfers to the universe where it's been released, the Radio signal to control the car has "Unlimited range" as aposed to it's original range. The only limitation on the car would be that of it's batteries.

The suggested theory above would cover some of the factors from EPR, the understanding that a short ordered communication between the car and the controller in one universe is heard by the car miles from that spacial position in the other universe.

It could be preposed that the same method could be used for the insertation of a SQID implant which wouldn't have any solidity to it as it would be percievably "dark matter", just electromagnetic backgrounding of the implants duality state.

However I'm sure you'll think this all scifi, this is one of the main reasons that such theory/experiment was really being saved for something real like a Uni course.

Stryder, there is ONE Universe. Check out the discussion that took place elsewhere. The very definition of Universe states clearly what it is. There is nothing more.

And yes, the rest reads like bad sci-fi. You are inventing things to excuse the difficulties in your hypothesis. Well, Occam's razor has to come into play here.

Oh, by the way, Heisenberg Uncertainty principle would apply in any space that is coupled to ours. Anyone who knows quantum mechanics knows that there can never be a dislocation in a wave form, edge parameters always have to match up. So if anything could travel from one part of space (say, in the part of the Universe that you count as being in a different Universe), a particle, photon, or whatever, just can't go and shed a dimension, or property crossing some arbitrary line. If Heisenberg applies anywhere (which it does) it applies everywhere.

Wouldn't it be simpler to create hallucinations by attaching a 'receiver' to
the optic nerve? Kind of like to interact or interfer with the signals from
the eye itself?

Phlogistician,
Heisenbergs Principle of Uncertainty still follows Relativity. For instance for a "Parallel" to exist it requires a "Paradox", a Paradox is usually formed when one percieved "Destined" occurance is purposely altered to no longer be the percieved occurance. (i.e. turning right at a junction instead of heading left which is the route that would have been taken)

Such a deviation however requires FTL communication which Einstein did not rule out (he only ruled out FTL transversement of Mass because of his renound equation.)

This basically means that if you have two universes with two different occurances occuring at either the "same time" or with FTL communication those occurances could actually be staggered in reverse (the direction you chose to be the paradox occurs first before taking the direction you would of originally taken ["Skipping Record"]).

Since universes are not just born of a paradox but exist from the beginning of the universe to the point the paradox arises, where it "junctions" to it. It suggests that multiple timelines can be staggered, because of their staggering and the method of "Junctioning" it's hypothesised that from one universe a universal constant that would seem Chaotic in nature (for instance a meteor crashing into the earth) could actually be viewed from another universe "before" it actually occurs in that universe it's viewed from.

There is alot more to it, however it's hardly mutiliation material and it's difficult to explain but then again if it was that simple the universe just wouldn't work.

As for the generation of the hallucination, It is possible to generate holographic matrices from antenna arrays to create a "vision". It's even possible to see the parallel universe that are created can have some visual effects. (For instance someone moves an object creating a parallel in a lab, in both universe the whole universe is pretty much the same apart from this displaced object. However the scientist that moves the object is now also potentially out of sync with themselves, they could leave work 5 minutes early in one universe and suddenly displace a bunch of people in traffic. Before you know it the "Butterfly effect" caused by such a paradox is now filtering it's way through everybodies interaction on the road, in the street "on the internet". If a person is displaced and you were not, you were still bound to both universes in a multiworlds state, you would see the person in one frame of reference [one universe] and potentially see their "Doppleganger" from the other universe at a later point in spooky circumstances.)

However all this again isn't related to the original mutiliation thread and I would prefer to state that this thread should stay on track, instead of the Craterchains one.