I must admit, there are several facets to this story that range from amusing to being downright disturbing.

A parent in Tasmania (Australia) has complained about her 5 year old daughter being taught "sex education" in kindergarten. Now here is the amusing part of this story:

The parent, who did not want to be named, said her kindergarten child had come home and "said the word vagina".

"I was shocked," she said.

"They were taught what a penis and a vagina was, which I don't think they should in kinder.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23071533-2,00.html



My first thought upon reading this was basically 'come on lady!. It would appear the child's class had had a protective behaviour class in kindergarten, where children are taught about their bodies and about improper touching and when they should tell someone if someone has touched them inappropriately. Fair enough I thought. In that, they are correct, children should be taught about such things from a very young age. Her complaint stems, in part, from the fact the school had not sought the consent of the parents. And there she is correct. The school should have gotten the consent of the parents and even had them in the class during the lecture. Complaints had been received by the group holding the classes in various schools, that upon arriving at the schools, they had discovered that the schools had not received parental consent.

Ms Ritchie said she had also heard complaints from people delivering the course, who had turned up to a school in the North-West only to find parental consent had not been sought.

She said the children were part of a protective behaviours course.

The complaint parent said her six-year-old and nine-year-old children had all been put through the course.

"I never knew it was happening until they all came home and said," she said.

"I don't think they should do it at that age, maybe Grade 6 or Grade 7, not kinder and prep.

"But the principal said the Government said it was compulsory for kids to learn about their bodies at that age.

"They told me that it was Family Planning, they came in to talk to the kids about their bodies, who could touch them and who could not."


Aside from her shock that her daughter learnt that she had a vagina, she also appears to believe that children from year 7 onwards (eg in highschool) should be taught such things, but not any younger. But does she have a point? How young is too young? As a parent of a 2 year old and a 9 month old, I must admit I too am concerned about giving them the inappropriate touching talk. I have started with my 2 year old, especially since he started going to daycare 2 days a week (because lets face it, kids do need to play with other kids their own age). To that end, he knows what a penis is and after having explained that part of his anatomy to him, he did go through a stage of telling everyone that it was "wee wee that comes out of my willy".. it was apparently very funny to him.

This story does take a disturbing turn however. It would appear after the class had the talk about inappropriate touching and teaching them the names of their sexual organs, the little girl apparently had 2 male classmates stick their hands down her pants.

The parent said her child told her about the alleged assault when she put her to bed that night.

"That's when she told me that two boys in her class had put their hands down her pants, and she said she bashed them," the mother said.

"She said it happened in the dolly corner.

"There were three adults in the room and 16 kids and no one saw it. She said she did tell the teacher, but the teacher seems to think she did not tell."

Pembroke Labor MLC Allison Ritchie said the allegation would be investigated.
As a parent, I'll admit that my first line of thought upon reading those lines was basically.. 'is this really getting too far'.. Are we getting paranoid? After all, kids will be kids and there has always been that notion of 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours'. Should we be concerned that a 5 year old child put his hands down a classmate's pants after being taught about what is down there? But then I began to think about if she were my little girl, I would be disturbed that some boys had touched her inappropriately. Scratch that, I'd be mad as hell. Maybe I am paranoid. But then I think, they're just 5 years old. Am I really that paranoid?.. Is it inappropriate for 5 year olds to be curious? My rational mind says no, of course not. But my irrational 'fear the possible inappropriate behaviour towards my child' mind says yes, it could very well be.

I am curious as to how this would be investigated. And if the boys did indeed put their hands down her pants, what kind of punishment could be meted out to these kids. After all, after being taught about what is down there, 5 year olds are curious little buggers and will want to check. So is it inappropriate? Are kids just being kids when they look at a classmate's penis or vagina? Or are we now so fearful that we are becoming irrational?

Its irrational. The boys did do something wrong, but that amounts to a severe talking to, (maybe tell their parents to do that) Not any form of disciplinary action.
Some parents tell their kids earlier than others, and the kids that don't know are bound to find it out earlier from them. I'd rather have a child taught by a teacher than another student.
However, kindergarten does seem a bit early. maybe wait till year 3. But definitely teach it in 6/7.

well human society is going by rules of society and not what is best biologically...for example allowance of gay/lesbians to exist, healing of sick who have gene problems and allowing them to reproduce, not allowing sex in some countries with girls who are well mature of their body, as well as other problems...

I doesn't matter whether they teach it or not kids still do that all of the time because they are never allowed to see it so they may not entirely believe that its true. Just like when you tell not to touch the stove, and they don't believe you when you tell them its hot so they touch it anyway and burn themselves. Every body learns best by experience and exploration. Touching each other is what kids do, but if it made the little girl uncomfortable she should know that its okay to tell someone so that it doesn't happen again. Kids should know if they have a penis or vagina before they are 11 years old. Please. Oh and always teach the appropriate word to small children first and nicknames after they have grasped an understanding of the body part. Nicknames taught to soon can lead to some very embarrassing situations...VERY EMBARRASSING.

Okay, to be honest, it's not the most relevant thing on the planet. But it's the first thing that came to mind as I read through the topic, and it won't leave me alone.

Of course, neither is it wholly irrelevant. There's some aspect of a flip-side involved. After all, sex-ed could be this puerile:

Do you always find yourself tongue-tied when rapists are around? Me too! Annoying. Luckily, while waiting for a friend to finish urinating at a scenic I-90 rest stop, I overheard a vanload of pre-teen girls chant the following ditty:
No! Don’t touch me there!
That is my no-no square!
I ain’t got no action there!
R - A - P - E
Rape!
Get away from me!
Because nothing deters a rapist like a darling mnemonic device. Keep this one handy, ladies! Your no-no square will thank you!

(West (http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/12/happy_friday_dont_get_raped))

I want to know what my kids are being taught. If they are taught Sex Ed I want to know. I'm very particular about what a Sex Ed class teaches them. When they start teaching it a schedule comes home of what they will be covering each week. If you want your child to sit out a certain week, they can.

I dissagree compleatly with orleander

I think sex ed should be MORE compulsery than subjects like maths and english. The last thing we want is America where the only form of sex Ed a kid learns is "abstanace"

Parents should have no say in wether sex ED is taught, in fact i am almost tempted to suggest that MORE classes be given to kids whos parents refuse. There is no other area of curiculam where the parents get a say and nore should there be

As an example i know a 16 year old girl who when i met her had no idea about sex. She thought that kissing got you pregnant, that as long as a guy pulled out she was safe from pregnancy, had no idea what the morning after pill was. She has had 5 sexual partners in the last 2 years and she has NEVER used a condom or any form of protection. This includes for the guy she just met and screwed.

Put it this way Bell. Say there is a kid in the class who IS being abused by there parent. That parent gets a permission form to sign on a lecture (or whatever you want to call it) on sexual abuses. What do you think that parent is going to do? you think they will let that child take the class? HELL NO

Of all the topics taught at school sex ED is the MOST important

I dissagree compleatly with orleander

I think sex ed should be MORE compulsery than subjects like maths and english. The last thing we want is America where the only form of sex Ed a kid learns is "abstanace"

Parents should have no say in wether sex ED is taught, in fact i am almost tempted to suggest that MORE classes be given to kids whos parents refuse. There is no other area of curiculam where the parents get a say and nore should there be

As an example i know a 16 year old girl who when i met her had no idea about sex. She thought that kissing got you pregnant, that as long as a guy pulled out she was safe from pregnancy, had no idea what the morning after pill was. She has had 5 sexual partners in the last 2 years and she has NEVER used a condom or any form of protection. This includes for the guy she just met and screwed.

Put it this way Bell. Say there is a kid in the class who IS being abused by there parent. That parent gets a permission form to sign on a lecture (or whatever you want to call it) on sexual abuses. What do you think that parent is going to do? you think they will let that child take the class? HELL NO

Of all the topics taught at school sex ED is the MOST important

I believe it is, but the question was , when is it too young, I am reminded of the south park episode, where they start teaching pre schoolers about sexual positions...

There is no age that is too young as long as the content is able to be understood. There is no magical age at which a child is at risk. They used to teach stranger danger until it was realised that most pedifiles are known to the child. there is no point teaching 16 year olds how to protect themselves from pedifiles, that need to be taught YOUNG as well as who the child can go to (ie a teacher, police officer, medical worker, polition, lawyer ect)

then you have conservative parents banging on the door, ordering you to stop all sex ed until they're 21...

thats why i belive in a system where things like this are decided between the education department, the child wealfare departments and the health department.

I dont belive parents should have ANY input, but they are welcome to knock on doors and be ignored

When it comes to Sex Ed...the sooner the better!

But schools teach a bunch of technical garbage compared to the study of tantra. I think that technical stuff is good at an early age, but the Tantra should probobly wait until High School.

At such an early age...keep it to the technical stuff. They don't need to know how to have a 8 hour orgasm or too much about what an orgasm is- but they should know about their bodies as soon as possible. That other stuff should come later!!!

8-10 hour long Orgasms can really expand your consciousness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8-10 hour long Orgasms

Holy Shit.
Thats all I'm gonna say.

8-10 hour long Orgasms

What's the point, just to see who can last the longest?:shrug:

I dissagree compleatly with orleander....

and what part of what I said do you disagree with? :shrug: My wanting to know what they are taught?

Please ignore the sick freak

nope i dont care if you want to know what they are taught, I dissagree that you have any right to remove the child from the class if you dont LIKE what is being taught.

They teach my kid that homosexuality is unnatural, I'm removing them from class.
Some parents feel the opposite.

Here its Sex Education, they teach about sex. Its not Health and Biology class where they teach about the body. They teach how to protect yourself against AIDS and homosexuality comes up. Abstinance comes up. These topics are moral issues.

Orleander so? Thats what it should be,

You start young with stranger danger and protecting yourself from harm and basic A&P
as it goes through it works through issus such as homosexuality and homophobia, STD's, etc

Thats as it should be and you dont have the right to stop your child learning about them.
If parents refuse to teach there kids enough to protect themselves from AID's STD's and unwanted pregnancy as well as what the hell sex is the state MUST.

Look up sHine
http://www.shinesa.org.au/

For starters this is a public health issue and the state has a strong responcability when it comes to public health

Edit to add: to be fair i dont live in a country where the religious right has infected goverment departments

The teach the wrong thngs in sex ed. It is basically useless.

would you like to qualify your statement?
For starters who are THEY?
Secondly where are you?
Thirdly what did they teach?

They teach my kid that homosexuality is unnatural, I'm removing them from class.
Some parents feel the opposite......

Orleander so? Thats what it should be,.....

WHAT! That's how it should be?! They should teach that homosexuality is unnatural?

Well they (education boards etc.) teach the mechanics of sex which is something i never needed to be taught. At least that can be taught in 10-15 minutes and it has no value unless you want to become a doctor. It is the psychological aspect that needs to be taught because most do not learn this until later in life and by that time it is too late.

Rape\Date Rape
Teen Pregnancy
Confusion

The numbers dont lie.

I remember little from my own sex ed classes except that the teacher would sit on a desk in front of the class and had really nice legs but that was all i really paid attention to.

So basically they teach kids how to use equipment and then bombard them with sexual imagery in the media...very effective:rolleyes:

Hell no, im sorry i missread your post the first time.
To be perfectly honest i dont know what to say. I am not in favor of parents choseing whether to let there kids learn sex ed because i dont think the religious nuts should be able to keep that knowlage from there children but when the religious right has infected the whole system i dont know what you do. I would say you will just have to teach that yourself. Maybe you should let your kids go and see how nutty the religious right is (after you talk to them first)

... i dont think the religious nuts should be able to keep that knowlage from there children but when the religious right has infected the whole system i dont know what you do. I would say you will just have to teach that yourself. Maybe you should let your kids go and see how nutty the religious right is (after you talk to them first)


What knowledge? Do you teach a 5 year old how to do a root canal?

John99
we learned starting in primary school (and its years since i did this so i may miss some stuff)

How to say no
stranger danger
Rape and sexual assult
A&P
different methods of conctrceptive (NEVER use that copper wire, thats evil)
choices for unwanted pregnancy
Homosexuality and Homophobia

Edit to add i suggest you have a look at the ciriculam on the sHine page i posted

They don't need to know how to have a 8 hour orgasm or too much about what an orgasm is- but they should know about their bodies as soon as possible. That other stuff should come later!!!

You know, I think specific pleasure-enhancement techniques are one aspect of sexuality that should definitely be kept out of the hands of the public-education bureaucracy. These people have a hard enough time teaching basic math and writing skills without screwing up. They can't seem to put together a decent history education.

Certainly, the details of technique should come later, like when people are old enough to go out and read a proper book on the subject.

thats why i belive in a system where things like this are decided between the education department, the child wealfare departments and the health department.

I dont belive parents should have ANY input, but they are welcome to knock on doors and be ignored

Are you a parent, Asguard?

As a parent I am the final arbiter of what my young children should and should not be exposed to. As a former elementary school teacher I did not feel it was my place to be in loco parentis on such a personal matter as sex education of the very young. When children are very young, ie. below the age of seven or eight it is the responsibility of the parents to decide just how much sex education they will receive, not of the state.

"I dont belive parents should have ANY input, but they are welcome to knock on doors and be ignored."

I find this statement to be particularly ludicrus. Perhaps we should extend that to, the parents should have no say in what their children eat, who their children play with, what their children watch on television, what books they read, whether they go to church or not.

Just where do you see the rights of the parents ending and being superceded by the state?

"rights of the parents"

No i am not a parent yet (hopefully in the next couple of years i will be)
Your assumption is wrong however
parents dont have rights they have responcabilities
The responcability to send there kids to school for example which if not followed will force the state to remove your child and\or santion you
the responcability to feed and cloths your child
the responcability to love your child

ect

I am training to work in the health care field and you know what? we see more kids of right wing christians with unwanted pregancy's than we do non christan familys

I dont know what countrie you live in but Australia puts the rights of the parent WAY below the rights of the child

...Your assumption is wrong however
parents dont have rights they have responcabilities....

LOL, the parents have rights. Its their tax dollars that pay for the schools. It was parents that put a stop to this. Should they have minded their own business and let the schools do what they have always done?

The Harnett County School (http://www.dunndailyrecord.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=91678&TM=58017.65)system, under pressure from a national civil rights group, has halted the long-standing tradition of allowing the Gideon organization to distribute Bibles to elementary students.

Harnett County Superintendent of Schools Dan Honeycutt said his system had little choice but to stop handing out Bibles to young students.

"The American Civil Liberties Union contacted us and said it was a violation of Constitutional rights," Mr. Honeycutt said. "They asked us to stop handing out the Bibles

If their child has to sit through a sex ed class that they don't morally think is right, then my child should have to take a Bible, which I don't think is morally right. My beliefs are not their beliefs and vice-versa.

Why does it bother you so much? :shrug:

because i know girls who have ended up pregnant because they didn't know what sex was. I have known guys who have prayed upon that lack of knowledge and claimed that the withdrawal method stops pregnancy. One girl in paticular came from a very far of right christan group, she was pregnant at 13, she had an abortion but had another kid at 14. She is now a drug adict, her family wont talk to her and she is trying to raise a kid. Why? in a country like Australia is that happerning?

Also i see the amount of cases of adults who were abused as children by the people they trusted INCLUDING parents. The younger these kids can be taught to protect themselves the better. If that offends some "parents" moral belifes thats just to bad, especially if the parents are the ones doing the abusing.

School should never be a proxy parent.

Schools are not kids parents, but sex ed should be mandatory in at least junior high. And parents should have no say. At my kids school they have alcohol and drug lectures all the time at elementary schools (D.A.R.E) and red ribbon week and they never ask the parents permission if they think their child should be hearing about things like that and similar to drugs and alcohol, sex can effect a child's life just the same and sex ed is more important because your kid may choose whether to give alcohol or other drugs a try or not, but unless they become a nun or priest right out of high school they are going to have sex one day and with all the ignorant adults I see something needs to be done.

Parents should ALWAYS have a say. If my kids school taught creationism, I damn well better have a say in whether or not they are taught it. If the sex ed class teaches that homosexuality is a mental illness, I better have a say in that as well.

They would not teach creationism because it is not considered a science. at least here in California and homosexuality is just described not judged. I sat in on both my son's and daughter's class, so I could hear what they were but I guess things are different in other parts of the US or wherever. Parents no longer have a say if their school teaches evolution. Its important for parents to teach their kids what they believe and what their moral standards are, but ultimately its up to the kid to decide what they want to believe.

....at least here in California and homosexuality is just described not judged. I sat in on both my son's and daughter's class, so I could hear what they were but I guess things are different in other parts of the US or wherever.....

why did you sit in? What if homosexuality wasn't just described but judged?

Orleander i have been thinking about your point and comparing the US system to the Australian one

In australia the states decide the ciruluam although there is a lot of cross hashing in our system than in yours (actually there is a push for a national curiculam)

I think the main problem with the US system is that the religious right has already infected it. Creation is not science and was NEVER taught at any Australian school i know of, some religious schools may chose to mention it but it would go against the ciriculam to teach it rather than evolution (they would lose there licence to teach at all if they did)

The same goes for Sex ED. Its set by the department of education with advice from the health department, AMA ect rather than religious groups. That is why i belive it should be compulsery because its been set by the right people, ie those who work in the area rather than people who have an ajender to push

One difference between the US and Australia seems to be that as a general rule we can trust our goverment departments to act in a way that benifits sociaty as a whole. Maybe you should move countries

Sometimes I feel out of place when the kids at the daycare center ask me questions about sex. Its my job to teach them but at the same time I not sure what is okay to tell them and what isn't. One time a little boy told me that his friend said that a baby came from a mother's vagina and was never in her stomach. He is only four but I told him that he should ask his mother and he got mad at me. So I told his mother about what he had asked and she got mad at me and told me I was running some sort of sick establishment and she pulled him out for a week. I guess the news got around and another boy asked the same question so I told him it was true and then he was satisfied and his parents never said anything. What should i do in cases like that?

there is a really good book called "where do babies come from", its a piture book (cant rember the author) my parents bought it when i was quite young and put it on the book shelf. They told us to read it when we wanted to and to ask them any questions we had. As for questions like that in daycare why dont you get in touch with the Department of Education and see what they sugest?

I went to a christian elementary school and when they talked about Mary Magdelene(sp?) and we would ask what a prostitute was and they would say it meant that she sold her body and we all that she was selling her organs to people.:roflmao: and we couldn't figure out why everyone wanted to stone her. I thought organ donors were all bad people and that they to hell for quite a few years after that. :D

there is a really good book called "where do babies come from", its a piture book (cant rember the author) my parents bought it when i was quite young and put it on the book shelf. They told us to read it when we wanted to and to ask them any questions we had. As for questions like that in daycare why dont you get in touch with the Department of Education and see what they sugest?

OT: Asguard, i love the way you write. Its very natural.

im still trying to work out if that was a compliment or sarcastic
and what does "OT:" mean?

if parenting were left up to parents, we would be majorly fucked
there should be standards.
scientific not emotional.
consistency in ethics rather than inspired adhoccery

long live the state

i say!
whats cookin, chef?

lordy lord
so far from grace are we
lord have mercy!

"it takes a village..." I think children learn best when they are exposed to a lot of things, the good and the bad. People forget that kids can have opinions too. Especially when their parents aren't around. When hurricane Katrina happened the parents did not want us to discuss anything with their kids, but the kids talked about it anyway and some of the things they said really amazed us. "From the mouth of babes" :)

Children are often the kindest, and the most cruel of any civilization.

I think sex ed should be MORE compulsery than subjects like maths and english. The last thing we want is America where the only form of sex Ed a kid learns is "abstanace"

As if students today aren't bad enough at maths and sciences, you want to lower focus on these topics for sex ed? What's wrong with teaching abstinence? Does it make you mad that it's the only foolproof method against STDs and unwanted teen pregnancies?

Parents should have no say in wether sex ED is taught, in fact i am almost tempted to suggest that MORE classes be given to kids whos parents refuse. There is no other area of curiculam where the parents get a say and nore should there be

As long as the parents pay for and look after their kids, they have full say in their matter. If a child is sucking off his or her parents' teet, then the parents are naturally to have authority over them. What kids are being taught is knowledge that all parents should be informed about, and should have the option to filter. Not everyone wants their five-year old son, whose balls have not yet dropped, to learn about how to put a condom on properly.

As an example i know a 16 year old girl who when i met her had no idea about sex. She thought that kissing got you pregnant, that as long as a guy pulled out she was safe from pregnancy, had no idea what the morning after pill was. She has had 5 sexual partners in the last 2 years and she has NEVER used a condom or any form of protection. This includes for the guy she just met and screwed.

All things in balance, man. While I oppose teaching kids who should be playing with toys and barbies sex education, I also oppose not teaching them anything at all. What's wrong with, say, grade 6/7? Don't children naturally ascend to puberty around this time, anyway? The timing only seems logical to me.

Of all the topics taught at school sex ED is the MOST important

Yes, all of our great advances in civilization have been due largely in part to safer sex methods. :rolleyes:

So kids are there parents property?

So if you abuse your kid no one should procicute you because they are your right?

WRONG.

If you dont want to teach them about maths, well they are yours to do with as you please

WRONG

sociaty sets standards on parenting and i fully surport it that SOCIATY belives kids should know more than the bare minium some parents want to "teach" there kids
If it helps to stop pedifiles from harming the kids wether those happen to be the parents or not i fully surport it.

(i apologise if this comes out slightly incoherant, my partner is away so i am slightly drunk:))

What the fuck are you talking about?

Firstly.. This is not about "sex ed" really, but whether the school should have sought the consent of the parents before teaching the children about inappropriate touching and behaviour.. as in who can touch where and who cannot, etc.

Asguard

Your assumption is wrong however
parents dont have rights they have responcabilities
Asguard, as a parent, I can assure you, I do have rights (and responsibilities) over what my son is taught and what he participates in at kinder.

There are some things that the school needs the consent of the parents before proceeding. It is the rights of parents to know what their children are being taught in schools. You also have to remember that this class did not take place in a school but in a kindergarten.

because i know girls who have ended up pregnant because they didn't know what sex was. I have known guys who have prayed upon that lack of knowledge and claimed that the withdrawal method stops pregnancy. One girl in paticular came from a very far of right christan group, she was pregnant at 13, she had an abortion but had another kid at 14. She is now a drug adict, her family wont talk to her and she is trying to raise a kid. Why? in a country like Australia is that happerning?
We are not talking about sexually active teenagers, but 5 year olds in a kindergarten. I can assure you, no 5 year old would be able to fully comprehend sex and its dangers, be it STD's or pregnancy. Do you think a 5 year old should be taught about sex? Personally I don't. I'd rather my child remain as innocent as long as possible. That does not mean to say I would not teach them about inappropriate touching and when to tell someone. But I would want to teach my child that first, not send him off to kinder and then have complete strangers do it for me. As a parent, it is my right and my responsibility to teach my infant that.

Also i see the amount of cases of adults who were abused as children by the people they trusted INCLUDING parents. The younger these kids can be taught to protect themselves the better. If that offends some "parents" moral belifes thats just to bad, especially if the parents are the ones doing the abusing.
It doesn't matter. The parents should still have given their consent before their children were made to undertake that class. It is not up to the school to discuss sex with other people's 5 year olds. The group that runs these courses have also complained that many schools had failed to seek parental consent as well. It doesn't bother me that the school teaches that subject. It bothers me that the parents were completely unaware of it in the first place.

Parental consent is needed for everything in regards to schools. If a child has a headache, a school is not even allowed to give it paracetamol without parental consent.

The same goes for Sex ED. Its set by the department of education with advice from the health department, AMA ect rather than religious groups. That is why i belive it should be compulsery because its been set by the right people, ie those who work in the area rather than people who have an ajender to push
As far as I am aware, sex education is basically in year 7 in Australian schools. The push in Tasmania, and elsewhere, is for sexual predator awareness and to help keep children safe from inappropriate touching, etc. I'm sorry, but if my son's kinder did the same thing and did not ask for my consent, I'd be angry as well. Firstly, I think parents should also be made to attend the class with their children and most of all, parents should have been given the right to consent to it. Even the Government group that runs the classes want the parents to consent to it.

(first has i have done in every responce i have made i would like to apoligise if i seem a little incoherant)

"Parental consent is needed for everything in regards to schools. If a child has a headache, a school is not even allowed to give it paracetamol without parental consent. "

im sorry but this is for a compleatly DIFFERNT reason bell ie allergys

As for inapropriate touching ect i dont have a problem if the parents want to sit in, prepare the child whatever they feel they have to do to feel couftable. BUT if i was the teacher and you refused to give concent i would be watching your child VERY closly for signes of sexual abuse. The Australian goverment has already shown that it doesnt really give a toss about "parents rights" its parents responcibilities it cares about. Look at the NT if you dont belive me

As for inapropriate touching ect i dont have a problem if the parents want to sit in, prepare the child whatever they feel they have to do to feel couftable. BUT if i was the teacher and you refused to give concent i would be watching your child VERY closly for signes of sexual abuse. The Australian goverment has already shown that it doesnt really give a toss about "parents rights" its parents responcibilities it cares about. Look at the NT if you dont belive me

You are approaching this as though abuse is already an issue. Parents do have a right to consent to extra-curricular activities their children may be subject to. It is their right. This class was not the norm in this Tasmanian kindergarten. It was an extra-curricular activity, whereby the child's normal day to day activity has been stopped and she has been made to sit in that class. As far as I am concerned, any extra-curricular activity that goes on in my son's kindergarten, I am well within my rights to demand I consent to it. Hell, even they demand I consent to it. An animal handler comes to the kinder for a couple of hours and I need to give consent for my son to attend the session with his classmates. That's how it goes.

The Government does not have the right to do whatever it wants to or with our children. If there is abuse or they suspect abuse, the children's right to safety will take precedence while an investigation takes place. If a parent fails in his/her responsibility in protecting and caring for their child, then their rights are virtually suspended and they are denied the right to the custody of their child. You need to approach this from a standpoint where there is no abuse and where a parent has been kept out of the loop in regards to her 5 year old's education, resulting in her child being taught about sex without her knowledge. She now has to deal with the fact that her daughter's classmates then went on to inappropriately touch her daughter and the teachers did nothing about it when her daughter reported it. If that were my daughter, damn right I'd be angry and be demanding explanations left, right and center. I have a right to know what goes on in my son's school while he is there.

Mod Hat — Plagiarism and Sources

Better late than never, I suppose. I have struck a post from this topic for violating Sciforums' (rudimentary) plagiarism rules.

Members are reminded that, in reproducing text from other sources, they undertake the obligation to properly cite their source. Failure to observe the rule will result at least in the deletion of the post. Serial offenders are subject to stronger administrative sanction, including temporary and even permanent banning.

The rule at hand:

7. Cutting and pasting / plagiarism

B. Plagiarism
Plagiarism consists of copying another person's writings and passing them off as your own. If you post something somebody else has written, you must name the author, and preferably also reference the source. Posts which include material from elsewhere that is not properly acknowledged will be deleted.

(Forum Rules, Regulations, and Recommendations (http://www.sciforums.com/announcement.php?f=36))