It has long occurred to me that some of the most hypocritical, judgemental, and maniacal behavior that humans are capable of is often done in the name of some god. Here we are in the year 2003, and our world is embroiled war, racism, and hatred, again (still). As it has been since the Crusades, The Inquisition, and the witch trials, religion is in the middle of today's atrocities. Is the human race ever going to grow up?

I understand that death is hard to accept. It would be great to meet some supernatural entity who could promise eternal life and thwart death itself (OK, not for me, really, but I can understand why other people would want that). But at what cost, this life lived for an afterlife? It seems that religion itself promotes racism. After all, if I'm praying to my god, and you're praying to a different god, there is an implication that someone has it wrong. Great! The war is built right in!

Why do we continue to tolerate people who want to tell us that we are all bad people, inherently evil, and doomed to burn for eternity? Talk about your depressing companions!

Wouldn't the world be a much better place if religion just went away? Imagine! People would have to do the right thing for the right reason! People would have to be moral because they understood why, not just because an invisible mean guy will light them on fire.

Am I the only person who sees how destructive and pedestrian religion really is for our planet? Am I the only person choking to death on the fumes of religious laws, religious money, religious politics, and religious fervor? Is there anything anyone is doing to remedy humanity's worst ailment?

A philosopher is not allowed a religion. :)
Religion provides society with some basic values and ethics.
Not all religions say that man is inherently evil.
However, I understand what you are saying and I agree with you to a certain extent.

Somewhere between stabbing yourself in the hand with a shiv, and initiating a nuclear holocaust, lays religion.

Originally posted by filibuster
Is there anything anyone is doing to remedy humanity's worst ailment?

Yes. People like the writers Laurence Gardner, Michael Baigent, Ian Wilson and David Campbell. The Website on Rennes-le-Chateau.com offers many forums that try to dispel the myths of Jesus, and generally, all the myths of Xianity. Its an interesting website that focuses on the genealogy of Jesus' descendants and the lies told for centuries by the Roman Catholic Church to cover up the truth. I believe that the truth will come out in our lifetime. It is making great progress now as more lies are becoming uncovered. There's just too many educated people out there who are questioning Xianity and the Church. Also, historians and biographers are chronicaling the ancient history of Egypt on the Discovery and History Channels. The original Hebrews were Egyptians living in Egypt called the Tribe of Hibiru. So many of the names in the Bible like Mary, Martha, Joseph, Josephus, Jesus, Lazarus, etc. were all Egyptian titles, not Hebrew names! So, yes, there are lots of knowledgeable people out there trying to remedy humanity's worst ailment. I also believe those of us on this website who comment or refer to what other such groups are doing play a great part in this endeavor. More power to us all! The truth WILL set us FREE!

Religion is interesting in the least. Is in beneficial? I'm not sure. You are right with the points you made, but I have met a lot of religious people whom I envy. I wish I could just rock in a chair on the porch and be totally sure of what is to come. I wish I could feel at peace with my eyes closed all alone talking to "God" (I love putting God in quotation marks). I wish I could do that, but I'm glad I can't in a way.

I can see how religion came to be. It has always filled the gaps in our understanding. With each passing year I feel like we understand more and more as a race, but that does not mean that the average person even understands what an atom is. Religions still fills the gap that will never go away. That gap is called ignorance. Many people don't want to learn about the world around them or understand the universe. They are happy with mystical books from thousands of years ago, or with their own made up version of what they want religion to be.

It all comes back to my theory that "Heaven" (hee hee) is packed with people in that 80 and below IQ range. There are some exceptions, but that is who is there no matter which religion is correct.

I think it is plain to see that atheism is on the rise. It seems like younger people either don't care to think about religion or don't believe. Then again, maybe that is just what we young people do is question...

Why wouldn't a young person question everything???

It's clear that the old people have done a really great job! The world is in wonderful shape. The country is a shining beacon of hope. History reads like an inspirational novel. Obviously, the way things have been done for the last 2000 years is working wonderfully. We are all born into a beautiful world, where we can look to the status quo and our leaders for shining examples of all conduct.

If I were young, I'd be totally hopeful, optomistic, and inspired by this world.

Aren't you?

Originally posted by filibuster
Why wouldn't a young person question everything???

It's clear that the old people have done a really great job! The world is in wonderful shape. The country is a shining beacon of hope. History reads like an inspirational novel. Obviously, the way things have been done for the last 2000 years is working wonderfully. We are all born into a beautiful world, where we can look to the status quo and our leaders for shining examples of all conduct.

If I were young, I'd be totally hopeful, optomistic, and inspired by this world.

Aren't you?
*Sniff* *Sniff* I smell sarcasm. If not then you should bottle and sell that optomism. I don't think everyone shares your opinion. There have been some large wars in our past that never seem to have a break between them. We are destroying the environment and multiplying like bunnies in a world that is too crowded in all the good places to live already.

History books may read like an inspiration novel in parts, but history does not.

OK

I don't mean to be rude, ectro, but how high are you right now?

Yes, that was sarcastic. Our leaders are not leaders at all. Their example is deplorable. I try to avoid hitting people over the head with rhetoric, but since you asked:

Naked aggression and brute force are the most respected ideas of the 21st century.

Humankind is so far from realizing its potential that we may actually be guilty of atavism. Time, after all, is a measurable factor, and we seem to be immune to it (thanks to religion, I think)

We are sexually repressed and immature, emotionally retarded and abusive, inherently dependent and fearful, and spiritually......ignorant.

If I remove my clothes and hug the Earth in gratitude, I will go to the asylum.

If I remove my humanity and begin using my intellect to manipulate and exploit my fellow man at every turn afforded, I will go to "the top".

We are so fucked, it isn't funny.

Originally posted by filibuster
OK

I don't mean to be rude, ectro, but how high are you right now?

Yes, that was sarcastic.
It's hard to tell. Some people actually like the world they live in. I for one agree with society about the naked field hugging though.

We as a race are still young and change is happening faster than ever. There is no getting past the fact that we are animals though. There will always be a form of violence and someone will always be exploited no matter how far we advance. After all, if there was no one stepping on the little guy movies would suck. How would Lifetime get any viewers? :D

I think exploitation is blown out of purportion. If I can sell my designer waffles for a 5000% markup I am not exploiting anything but consumer idiocy. Sure there are better examples, but most of the time these things are harmless.

Could you elaborate on Spiritually ignorant? I would like to know if I fall in to that category.

I don't want to assess any individual spirituality, indirectly or otherwise.

Your waffles aren't being sold to starving people, are they? In court, the concept of intent goes far. Any idiot can stick feathers on a mouse and sell it as a peacock. Exploitation involves the abuse of intuition, priveledged information, or faith. Exploitation involves being ahead of coincidence, taking advantage of an opportunity to do good by doing the opposite. Chasing an ambulance.

If there are any universal truths to be found amongst human pardigms, then spiritual ignorance would be an assault on those truths. Using a time machine to go back and kill Lao Tzu, or burning every copy of the Iliad in existence. Those would be acts of spiritual ignorance. I feel we do these things daily as a culture and a race. Killing every member of an undiscovered species, etc.

Yeah, things are great here.

There is something in the Abrahamic religions that resonates with that little spark of violence that is left over from our Neolithic ancestors. They lived in tribes of a couple of hundred people that they all more or less knew personally and could care about. Other tribes were competitors for resources. When resources got scarce or human reproduction got too prolific, the tribes would fight each other.

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam reinforce that feeling in us. They encourage us to see people outside our community as competitors rather than kinfolk. That community is usually the particular religion, but it is also often mixed up with nationality.

Violence seems to be a need in these religions. If peace breaks out and lasts too long, one of them will abruptly fragment into two factions which immediately start fighting against each other. Catholic against Protestant. Sunni against Shiite. Conservative against Reform (they're not killing each other yet but in Israel they're throwing rocks at people who drive their sick children to the hospital on the sabbath).

So the answer to "How harmful is religion," is "very," when you're talking about those that worship the god of Abraham.

I don't let the Hindus off lightly either. The caste system, throwing widows onto their husbands' funeral pyre, and they work up a good sweat trying to kill Muslims.

The "religions" that do the least harm are the ones that don't put a lot of emphasis on the supernatural and the worship of a supreme being. Buddhism, the Dao.

Violence is not in any of the law. Jesus said "love your neighbor as you love yourself". You are inaccuratly portraying a religion based on a few misguided actions.

You are inaccuratly portraying a religion based on a few misguided actions.

HA! I think it's the other way around, buddy. You're inaccurately portraying religion based on one misguided prophet! Wars are ALL OVER THE PLACE in the Bible, and the things your church(s) have done in the name of your god and Jesus and Muhammed are reprehensible and unforgivable. And they still go on today: The way homosexuals are treated, the way science is abused and raped by Intelligent Design advocates, Terrorism, the middle east crisis. And the thing in the middle east has been going on FOREVER. The bible takes place there, why don't you read it sometime?

And now, Christianity and Islam are in a Jihad. And as a result, Islam will be destroyed, mark my words, and it will costs millions of innocent lives on both sides. Thanks, religion.

JD

HA! I think it's the other way around, buddy. You're inaccurately portraying religion based on one misguided prophet! Wars are ALL OVER THE PLACE in the Bible, and the things your church(s) have done in the name of your god and Jesus and Muhammed

While the crusades were a horrible thing, they were based on revenge. Islamic warlords had taken over spain and parts of Eurpope including the Byzantine empire. And there was a mosque built on top of the grave of John the Apostle. The wars in the old testament are only to illustrate how we should fight Satan forces. Also as was promised in Micah
"He will settle disputes among the nations, among the great powers near and far. They will hammer their swords into ploughs and their spears into pruning-knives. Nations will never again go to war, never prepare for battle again. Everyone will live in peace among his own vineyards and fig trees, and no one will make him afraid. The Lord Almighty has promised this." Micah 4:3-4



are reprehensible and unforgivable.

There is no sin without God.


And they still go on today: The way homosexuals are treated, the way science is abused and raped by Intelligent Design advocates, Terrorism, the middle east crisis. And the thing in the middle east has been going on FOREVER. The bible takes place there, why don't you read it sometime?

Homosexuals are not treated in any way by the Catholic Church. Yes the homosexual act is a mortal sin, but the church does not treat homosexuals any different than they would tread adultry or porno dealers.


And now, Christianity and Islam are in a Jihad. And as a result, Islam will be destroyed, mark my words, and it will costs millions of innocent lives on both sides. Thanks, religion.

Christians did not declare Jihad and only a small part of islam reconizes the call to Jihad. Also the only christian nation I can think of is the vatican.

Is there anything anyone is doing to remedy humanity's worst ailment? I think religion is trying to do this!! I think religion is more than a fear of death. If there is more, then how can you close your eyes to it? I would say those who are not religious, become afraid of death, because there is nothing more!! Clinging to a beleif in one life only, is what causes havoc in the world, because these people then only want to grab as much of it as possible!!! Knowing there is much much more is what gives the world the grace and humility it deserves. I find nietzsche's future prediction strikingly accurate: Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market-place, and cried incessantly: "I am looking for God! I am looking for God!"
As many of those who did not believe in God were standing together there, he excited considerable laughter. Have you lost him, then? said one. Did he lose his way like a child? said another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? or emigrated? Thus they shouted and laughed. The madman sprang into their midst and pierced them with his glances.

"Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. We are his murderers. But how have we done this? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not perpetually falling? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is it not more and more night coming on all the time?

Without God to guide us, humanity has become more and more lost, and directionless, as everyday life, now, seems to show!

Originally posted by Mucker
Without God to guide us, humanity has become more and more lost, and directionless, as everyday life, now, seems to show!
You are right. When rulers instilling the fear of God in to their peasents and squashed science for hundreds of years in the dark ages everything was just great.

I think that meeting a person with morals that doesn't believe he will be punished by God if he does or doesn't do something says a lot about that person. A child needs a parent to keep them in line; an adult should not.

Maybe we are directionless, but then again maybe it just seems that way because we aren't going in the wrong direction anymore.

I truly envy people with a true belief in god because it is so simple. When it comes down to it though traditional religion is something that still lingers from our race's childhood.

Originally posted by okinrus
Jesus said "love your neighbor as you love yourself".
Jesus said "Eat Me! (http://www.nobeliefs.com/communion/communion.htm)"

Originally posted by Mystech
Somewhere between stabbing yourself in the hand with a shiv

Some religions make you do that.

Religion=Evil


God does not write anything down because if he did, a religion would form. God knows this to be evil, so he does not write.

Only lowly scribes pretending to 'hear' him do this. If you believe in a religion you are misguided.

If you support your religion by professing it's virtues(?), then you are guilty of it's fraud.

P.S. People who post here at their employers expense, without permission, are thieves.

While the crusades were a horrible thing, they were based on revenge. Islamic warlords had taken over spain and parts of Eurpope including the Byzantine empire. And there was a mosque built on top of the grave of John the Apostle

I don't see how everything you said couldn't be traced back to state-sanctioned holy wars. Building a mosque atop an apostle's grave justifies sending a nation to war? No person in their right mind would support this notion, unless they had been forced into believing in this religion.

Homosexuals are not treated in any way by the Catholic Church. Yes the homosexual act is a mortal sin, but the church does not treat homosexuals any different than they would tread adultry or porno dealers.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. There is nothing sinful about a homosexual act, pal. Homosexuals are born with that disposition, much in the same way some people have tendancies to prefer children sexually. It's not something someone just decides one day; same-sex attraction is as natural to a homosexual as opposite-sex attraction is to a heterosexual. You're born that way. I must admit, I like the way you tried to save yourself there, saying the homosexual "Act" is a mortal sin, as opposed to just being homosexual in itself. But you're backwards in your thinking there as well: Heterosexuals who take a vow of abstanence for life--or until marriage--do so out of free will and usually a strong bond with the god of their choosing. They don't ask that everyone else does it, nor do they condemn others for not following suit. This is usually why life-long abstanence is reserved for men of the cloth. To say a homosexual act is sinful, then you would be asking people of that persuasion to act like priests, and give up their right to choose for themselves. To expect every homosexual to supress that natural desire is oppresive and logically retarded.

Christians did not declare Jihad and only a small part of islam reconizes the call to Jihad. Also the only christian nation I can think of is the vatican.

Well, the good ol' USofA happens to have an extremely Christian President whom calls upon the power of god during every public address he gives, so I'd say my homeland is pretty much a Christian nation. Sugarcoat it all you want, but when your president calls the impending war against a muslim nation "The Crusades," then you know the separation of church and state has just gone out the window.

The wars in the old testament are only to illustrate how we should fight Satan forces.

And who made that distinction? Just another case of the bible being literal or figurative depending on which is more convienient at the time.

JD

Some religions make you do that

This is his living flesh and blood. It does not kill Jesus, therefore it's not cannibalism. The sacrament of the Eucharist goes way back before the council of Trent. The Eucharist is the main reason why I go to church

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-firstapology.html

"And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn. "

I don't see how everything you said couldn't be traced back to state-sanctioned holy wars. Building a mosque atop an apostle's grave justifies sending a nation to war? No person in their right mind would support this notion, unless they had been forced into believing in this religion.

No the main point I'm making is that the muslims attacked first. There was reasons beyond religious ones to crusade. You also have a narrow view. Suppose that Martin Luther was burnt alive. Well that's horrible but then the 100 year war may have never happened. The crusaders did exactly what the muslims did when they invaded constantinople.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. There is nothing sinful about a homosexual act, pal. Homosexuals are born with that disposition, much in the same way some people have tendancies to prefer children sexually.

You do not have evidence of this. Even if it were true it does not make it right. People have predispositions to violence, to adultry, drunkness, and to steal.


It's not something someone just decides one day; same-sex attraction is as natural to a homosexual as opposite-sex attraction is to a heterosexual. You're born that way.

I think some, very few, are born that way. Sexual tendancy may be a trait ingrained in someone when they are really young. As for yet there is no suitable genetic evidence to make the claim either way.


I must admit, I like the way you tried to save yourself there, saying the homosexual "Act" is a mortal sin, as opposed to just being homosexual in itself.

This is what the Church teaches concerning homosexuality. Having homosexual tendancies is not a sin but may may lead to sin.


But you're backwards in your thinking there as well: Heterosexuals who take a vow of abstanence for life--or until marriage--do so out of free will and usually a strong bond with the god of their choosing. They don't ask that everyone else does it, nor do they condemn others for not following suit.
This is usually why life-long abstanence is reserved for men of the cloth. To say a homosexual act is sinful, then you would be asking people of that persuasion to act like priests, and give up their right to choose for themselves. To expect every homosexual to supress that natural desire is oppresive and logically retarded.

I'm being careful not to condemn someone. I'm specifically talking about the homosexual act not the person commiting it.
You are asuming that I meant everyone who commits the homosexual act is guilty of a mortal sin. Perhaps some are not guilty. Not everyone who steals is guilty of stealing due some possible disorders. However we must put Christ before everything else including sex.


And who made that distinction? Just another case of the bible being literal or figurative depending on which is more convienient at the time.

Christ did. The old testament clearly shows the Holy Spirit, the ark of the convenant, killing the enemies of Israel. However from the beginning it was God's intent to make all of mankind serve Him. It was told to Abraham that all nations would find blessing in him.

Originally posted by JDawg
[B]Wars are ALL OVER THE PLACE in the Bible, and the things your church(s) have done in the name of your god and Jesus and Muhammed are reprehensible and unforgivable. And they still go on today:

No kidding JDawg. These religious people freak me out sometimes. I can't tell if it's their wiring or upbringing, but it's just so bizarre! I mean, they look just like humans, talk just like humans, but WTF? I don't mean to dehumanize anybody, but check this out:

I think religion is more than a fear of death. If there is more, then how can you close your eyes to it? I would say those who are not religious, become afraid of death, because there is nothing more!! Clinging to a beleif in one life only, is what causes havoc in the world

Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Is that what drives all religions? This is actually a direct reply to my rejection of an afterlife in an earlier post. The fact that this guy can assemble an arguement that a willful rejection of the afterlife will cause fear!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

It really freaks me out. It's like having a monkey read me King Lear! It's a bad acid trip! THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING.....oh, but it is. Every Sunday they wind him up and dance around wearing only immortality. "I need some god, Mildred,.....let's go watch a state of the union address!"

I really wish I could make just one devout person understand (grok) that I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO DEATH! I'm not suicidal, but I'm also not delusional or stupid. What point in denying death? You might as well be afraid of your feet! Quick! Run away from them!

I'll tell you all one thing, if I'm wrong, and there is an afterlife, it's going to be hilarious! Because whoever comes to get my soul and direct it around is going to get the shit beaten out of them! If I can end my mortal life, then it stands to reason that I'll be able to end my afterlife, and I'll be one seriously suicidal maniac in the afterworld!

It's like coming home after a hard day's work only to realize that you've still got hours of work that you forgot you still need to do. Damn!

What do you mean, I'm not allowed to die? Bullshit. I'm in love with mortality. I accept my life AND my death. Fuck off, God.

Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Is that what drives all religions? This is actually a direct reply to my rejection of an afterlife in an earlier post. The fact that this guy can assemble an arguement that a willful rejection of the afterlife will cause fear!!

Fear of God means to be meak and humble. God is love.


What do you mean, I'm not allowed to die? Bullshit. I'm in love with mortality. I accept my life AND my death. Fuck off, God.

Well if you want to spend eternity without God that is your choice. God is loving and will do what you ask of him. Still I find nonexistance worse than being in hell.

I find nonexistance worse than being in hell.

Fear of nothing?????LOL! The whole point of hell is lost on you. It takes all kinds......

Fear of nothing?????LOL! The whole point of hell is lost on you. It takes all kinds......

Can you imagine nonexistance? Would you still would exist in the past? Maybe, but is that really you or is that just someone making choices you've already made before? Ok what's your point of hell?

Can you imagine nonexistance? It seems to me that you are the one who is incapable of imagining nonexistence, since you think it would be worse than hell. What a paradox you are. You invoke the word "humility", yet your greatest fear is nothingness. Ok what's your point of hell? The point of hell is fear, so for you, it would seem that death is "hell". No wonder you subscribe to religion. Set and match.

the main point I'm making is that the muslims attacked first. There was reasons beyond religious ones to crusade. You also have a narrow view. Suppose that Martin Luther was burnt alive. Well that's horrible but then the 100 year war may have never happened. The crusaders did exactly what the muslims did when they invaded constantinople

Let's talk about this, Okinrus. Your point here is that Christians only retaliated, right? And, in the case where you were the aggressor (Crusades) you claim the church was just doing what the muslims had done beforehand. Finally, you say that the burning at the stake of Martin Luther was bad, but without it, the 100 years way would never had happened, which was good.

Well, Okinrus, doing what the muslims had done doesn't make it right. It makes you just as bad. And even if there were reasons beyond religion for the crusades, it was religion that was tool used to muster the support for the cause. Without religion, no way would those disgusting crimes against humanity have happened. And in the case of Martin Luther and the 100 years war, the ends do not justify the means. If the US were to drop a nuke on Iraq right now, and kill a million civilians along with Saddam, the fact that Saddam was killed does not make what was done right.

You do not have evidence of this. Even if it were true it does not make it right. People have predispositions to violence, to adultry, drunkness, and to steal.

Ok, first of all, you have no evidence of god, but does that stop you from believing? Anyway, the difference between homosexual tendancies and the tendencies to steal, drink, adulterize and commit violent acts, is that homosexual acts don't hurt anyone. The family of a homosexual may be depressed for a time, but no lasting scars are left on a group or family. It is victimless, and therefore, completely different than the tendancies you listed above.

I'm specifically talking about the homosexual act not the person commiting it.

Ohhh, so now the sinner isn't really a sinner? The sin just ups and jumps into a host and commits itself? Hmm, that's a new one.

You are asuming that I meant everyone who commits the homosexual act is guilty of a mortal sin.

Yeah, you're right. Silly me, why in the world would I assume that?

Yes the homosexual act is a mortal sin,

Ohhhh, that's why. Becuase you said so! Look, buddy, get your shit together before you come up and bring an argument to me, OK? I'm not stupid, and I know what I'm talking about. I won't let you accuse me of something when you yourself made the comment. The fact is, you said the act of homosexuality is a mortal sin. Those are your words. Now, just out of convience, you backtrack, and come up with this complete nonsense about how the person committing the sin isn't bad; the sin is, and I'm not having it. Come correct with me, buddy.

Christ did. The old testament clearly shows the Holy Spirit, the ark of the convenant, killing the enemies of Israel.

But that wasn't my question. My question was "Who made the distinction between the wars being literal or figurative?" That comment does NOT answer my question. And just for your info, Christ wasn't around in the OT, moron.

And let's take that a step further: Earlier, you said that the wars were to teach man how to fight the forces of satan, yet, in this example, the holy spirit is killing the "Enemies of Israel." Excuse me, but since when does being an enemy of Israel make you a satanic force? I mean, Iraq was an enemy of Israel, but should we make the leap to calling them a force of satan? To me, it sounds like they attacked people who didn't believe in thier god, not satan's army.

JD

Originally posted by okinrus
Fear of God means to be meak and humble. God is love.

Fear of God is self-destructive. Fear of God is omni-destructive. To fear God is to fear yourself, your own survival in this world, and your entire understanding of your purpose in life. Why would your Creator want you to fear him? (Oh, because your God is a male God?). Creation is a positive force (otherwise we wouldn't be here). From the dawn of time we humans have feared predator animals, marauding barbarians, famines, inquisitions, diseases, various and sundry technologies that eliminated wo/man's livelihoods, wars of all kinds, religious zealots, and now nukes. Fearing God has nothing to do with it. Maybe for these reasons religions were created by man so he/we could garner help from a higher power than ourselves. But this defeats the purpose. To fear God is to fear ourselves which puts us in the weaker position. Love yourself and fear no one!

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
Fear of God is self-destructive.
I agree that fear is bad, but I think that when the Bible says fear it means respect. Fearing God is not the same as fear of heights or scorpions. Then again, both kinds of fear are equally good at screwing up a lot of fun things. ;)

Originally posted by Ectropic
I agree that fear is bad, but I think that when the Bible says fear it means respect. Fearing God is not the same as fear of heights or scorpions. Then again, both kinds of fear are equally good at screwing up a lot of fun things. ;)

Yeah, it's another one of those "mistranslations" (i.e. distortions of the truth)! In any event, to respect God is also to respect oneself and one's fellow human being. Just think, if we all did that, there would be no need for religions--we'd love one another as we love ourselves!

Medicine Woman

In any event, to respect God is also to respect oneself and one's fellow human being. Just think, if we all did that, there would be no need for religions--we'd love one another as we love ourselves!

Or, we could forget about gods and religion altogether and love one another. In that way, we could serve ourselves and our fellow man rather then serving gods.

Originally posted by (Q)
Medicine Woman

In any event, to respect God is also to respect oneself and one's fellow human being. Just think, if we all did that, there would be no need for religions--we'd love one another as we love ourselves!

Or, we could forget about gods and religion altogether and love one another. In that way, we could serve ourselves and our fellow man rather then serving gods.

That, my friend, is the whole point of our existence!

Is it bad that I don't love another human automatically? In fact I kind of loathe most of the people I meet at first. I do love humanity as a whole though and I would do anything to preserve it.

Originally posted by Ectropic
Is it bad that I don't love another human automatically? In fact I kind of loathe most of the people I meet at first. I do love humanity as a whole though and I would do anything to preserve it.

No, it isn't bad that you you don't love another human being automatically. Your desire to preserve humanity is our human nature and our bioevolutionary quest for survival of the fittest--our most basic human instinct. You do love humanity as a whole as I believe most humans do to some extent, because we were created for the good of all living. There are some people, however, who have a basic hatred for other creations: humans, animals, plants, etc. Fortunately, we have discovered some really good medication for these people.

Amma liking this Medecinewoman ...Alot.:)

Medicine woman

That, my friend, is the whole point of our existence!

Really? Then why do religious wars exist?

There are some people, however, who have a basic hatred for other creations: humans, animals, plants, etc. Fortunately, we have discovered some really good medication for these people.

That makes no sense. First you say it is the whole point of our existence and then you say some people require medication. You’ve just contradicted yourself.

Originally posted by (Q)
Medicine woman

That, my friend, is the whole point of our existence!

Really? Then why do religious wars exist?

There are some people, however, who have a basic hatred for other creations: humans, animals, plants, etc. Fortunately, we have discovered some really good medication for these people.

That makes no sense. First you say it is the whole point of our existence and then you say some people require medication. You’ve just contradicted yourself.

No, this was not a contradiction. I was trying to be humorous. Being one with the human race and nature is what I call God. There are people out there who are filled with hatred even though they, too, are the creation of God. They don't see that, though. Free will does get in the way of one's relationship with oneself and one's God just as religion gets in the way. Fortunately, for some people who are so negative and hateful or spiritually lost, wonderful medications have been discovered by the intelligence given to the human race. I didn't mean using medication as some sort of 'control.' I meant it in a purely medical sense. There are a lot of 'unhappy' human beings out there who are searching for the meaning of their existence. Sometimes they have a medical condition that changes their outlook to a more positive one--then, and only then, can their minds be free from stress and worry perpetuating negativity that will eventually devour one's soul. Sometimes people look at the wrong thing to make themselves 'happy'--drugs, alcohol, sex, murder, perversion, etc. They are hopeless because their despair rules them. That's all I'm saying.

Medicine Woman

Being one with the human race and nature is what I call God

I agree – we are a product of nature, and not some supernatural omnipotent being. But rather then calling nature a god, why not just call it "nature?"

Fortunately, for some people who are so negative and hateful or spiritually lost, wonderful medications have been discovered by the intelligence given to the human race.

With this I somewhat don’t agree. There is no need for spirituality and there is certainly no link to negativity and hatefulness. One can very easily lead a happy and fulfilling life without spirituality.

There are a lot of 'unhappy' human beings out there who are searching for the meaning of their existence.

And there are a lot of happy people out there who do not dwell on the meaning of the their existence because they know their time here on Earth is short. I think that searching for a meaning to existence would make one unhappy.

Well, Okinrus, doing what the muslims had done doesn't make it right. It makes you just as bad. And even if there were reasons beyond religion for the crusades, it was religion that was tool used to muster the support for the cause. Without religion, no way would those disgusting crimes against humanity have happened. And in the case of Martin Luther and the 100 years war, the ends do not justify the means. If the US were to drop a nuke on Iraq right now, and kill a million civilians along with Saddam, the fact that Saddam was killed does not make what was done right.

There were more secular reasons for the crusades than the war Bush just fought. If the crusades were really a religious war than the participants would have spent more time trying to convert than looting the cities. Also not all crusades were bad. I'm sure you agree with the crusades against the albigensians. Perhaps Clover united Europe allowing economic and social improvement. But you are only looking at the negative, a few people being killed.


Ok, first of all, you have no evidence of god, but does that stop you from believing? Anyway, the difference between homosexual tendancies and the tendencies to steal, drink, adulterize and commit violent acts, is that homosexual acts don't hurt anyone. The family of a homosexual may be depressed for a time, but no lasting scars are left on a group or family. It is victimless, and therefore, completely different than the tendancies you listed above.

You are unwilling to look at the larger implications on its affects on society. Using your logic nither does premarital sex.


The fact is, you said the act of homosexuality is a mortal sin. Those are your words. Now, just out of convience, you backtrack, and come up with this complete nonsense about how the person committing the sin isn't bad; the sin is, and I'm not having it. Come correct with me, buddy.

I'm trying to be clear that even in simple cases it may be difficult to know if that person commits a mortal sin, veniel sin, or just cannot be held responsible. Your probably not aware that to be a mortal sin some prerequisites must be met.


But that wasn't my question. My question was "Who made the distinction between the wars being literal or figurative?" That comment does NOT answer my question. And just for your info, Christ wasn't around in the OT, moron.

No the wars are literal and did happen. However the meaning is that God destroys evil. There's no general commandment that says "Be violent and start lots of wars."
Isaiah 9:5 "For a child is born to us, a son is given us; upon his shoulder dominion rests. They name him Wonder-Counselor, God-Hero, Father-forever, Prince of Peace."

I am really enjoying this! This is the first thread I ever started, and it's really blossomed and gone on without becoming a total digression. Neato!

Recently, JDawg and ectropic have been deliberating the difference between vengence, righteousness, and poor behavior, while Medicine Woman has been making metaphysical assertions about the nature of love and human existence as it applies to the perception of self, others, and God.

In Medicine's Woman's comments lie the seeds of my original impetus to pose the question.

The harm religion does, IMHO, is that it gives false hope, false logic, and false status to people who really need to fall flat on their face, spiritually. Instead of seeing the truth and beauty of existence and all its possibilities, these devout are doomed to spend their lives in persecution and fear. Any person who will accept the bible as true must be spiritually.. (insert euphamism). The bible is so angry, so hateful, so violent, and so judgemental AGAINST human beings that it must be dismissed in order for spirituality to begin. There is so much to experience in the secular realities of human tolerance, forgiveness, understanding, and loss.....and it takes a lifetime to learn just a little of it. THERE ARE REAL REASONS FOR DOING BEAUTIFUL THINGS EVERY DAY!!!! Unfortunately, fear and memorization aren't the reasons. The bible offers none of them. "Thou shalt not" is no different than "Just say No". Ultimatums and one-dimensional reasons are NOT explanations. The bible is incapable of teaching anyone anything meaningful, because it dismisses the worthiness of the individual COMPLETELY.

Who florishes in that environment? No wonder the devout are so exasperating to talk to. Their spiritual life has not yet begun! They have accepted a universe that judges them, threatens them, and encourages them to hate themselves, their actions, and the actions of others. YIKES! So OF COURSE we keep fighting wars. Of course force and brutality are the pinnacles of human acheivement in the 21st century, the most respected form of energy. Automation across the board.

Just look what people are reading every Sunday. When they fall to their knees, how do they feel? Why are they kneeling in the first place? Humility? Humility is tolerance, not damnation. They kneel in fear and nepotism. "You can treat me like shit, just don't damn me!"

I honestly believe that religion is to humanity what a meteor was to the dinosaurs. It's our Achilles heel, our fatal flaw. Look around, tell me I'm wrong. Godloving warmongers knocking on my door in support of.....whatever their told. I just hope the cockroaches find a way to love and accept one another in 3003.

bible is so angry, so hateful, so violent, and so judgemental AGAINST human beings that it must be dismissed in order for spirituality to begin.

Have you even read the bible? Jesus' final commandment is "love your brother as I have loved you." Aren't you judging religious people? A bit judgemental for a hypocrit.


THERE ARE REAL REASONS FOR DOING BEAUTIFUL THINGS EVERY DAY!!!!

Here's your chance. Explain why I should give to the poor?

Here's your chance. Explain why I should give to the poor?

Are you saying that you only give to the poor becuase it says so in the Bible? Because I give to the poor to help the poor. Damn, dude...it hadn't been that obvious until now, but you are really a person who needs something in return for doing right. Maybe that's why the Bible was written the way it was...because the authors were afraid that without some sort of damnation for not doing good, and some sort of reward for doing right, humans would simply not do right!

A very interesting twist in the personal biography of Okinrus.

JD

What about the problem that you will never be able to give enough to help the poor? Sure, "you can't change the world but you can make a dent" and so on... it's all true. But ultimately you are not reaching the starving people in Sudan, or the millions of victims of the Congolese war. You can give someone fish, you can even help people fish for themselves, but you can't provide them with fish if the factor that makes the rubber tires for your car have made them inedible, and overfishing has made them extinct. When you go to Somalia on a UN truck filled with food, and you look into those starving eyes, you'll they are looking for hope, not just food. You can do beautiful things and dance among the flowers all you want, it is a false spirituality.

I once gave a man food, and he came back asking for money, I gave him money and he came back for more, I gave him more, and when he came back again, I realized that he was looking for hope... and that he had become dependant on me for hope. When I die, his hope for any more will die with me.

On my own, I am just a drop in the bucket, one among millions of well-meaning people since time began... but if if I can give them the same hope I have, of living water that does not dry up even when I'm dying of thirst.

John 4
13Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

Religions have definately murdered in millions over the milennia.

Romans harrassed and kille din thousands of early Christians due to their faith.

Islam has consumed most of N. Africa an the Middle east, as well as a sizeable portion of Asia, and has killed and enslaved millions of humans of different beliefs. There have been numerous pogroms of Christians in Turkey during the thousand year long Islamic occupation of the country, and today a minority og ~1% coptian and orthodox Christians remain.

During the dark ages, non-moslems in islamic occupied states had to pay taxes to keep their own faith to themselves, and often had to give their children to military brothels, as well.

The Christian crusades are seen as a atrocity by many, but in fact, they were a reaction to the Islamic occupation of what is now Israel and Turkey.

http://www.mrdowling.com/606islam.html

The inquisition (in response to the Luterian and Calvinian reformation) and with burnings (etc) were much worse than the crusades.

While chistianity today has moderated since the inquisitions in the middle ages, the catholic church is responsible for ~1e9 people worldwide finding it unwishful for use of contraception (condoms) per popal decree.

But I dont think that you have to have a deity to be religious - believe in an absolute system of morality or such can be just as religious. My best example is the former USSR and other communist states. The interesting thing is that traditional religious practice was outlawed in the Sovet Union (St Basils Cathedral in Moscow - a beautiful piece of architecture, by the way) was closed and came close twice to demolition during the Stalin years.

Anyway, my point is that in the USSR and most other communist regimes, traditional religious practice is outlawed and replaced with what is essentially Communist religious practise, with the Icons of Marx, Engels and Lenin - and some madmen even "worship" Stalin, the worst mass murderer in human history.

In short, this modern abomination of an ideology, has cost in excess of 180 million people their lives over the past century. Not even Christianity and Islam together can top that.

My 2 cents.

Are you saying that you only give to the poor becuase it says so in the Bible? Because I give to the poor to help the poor. Damn, dude...it hadn't been that obvious until now, but you are really a person who needs something in return for doing right. Maybe that's why the Bible was written the way it was...because the authors were afraid that without some sort of damnation for not doing good, and some sort of reward for doing right, humans would simply not do right!

No, I didn't even say that I give to the poor. You will have to answer why you help the poor. I don't see any rational reason to help the poor. In fact it would only make me poorer and throw a wrench in natural evolution.

okinrus,

How does helping the poor make you poorer?

Originally posted by EvilPoet
okinrus,

How does helping the poor make you poorer?

My belief is this: When you see a person on the street with a sign that says "will work for food," I think we all know that he's hungry for booze--at least that's the way it is here in the big city of Houston, TX. They're on every street corner. Yet--even though I know they will use my gift of a dollar or two to go buy alcohol, and even though this is enabling their addiction, and all--the act of 'giving' is spiritually healing. When I act by giving alms, regardless of how the alms would be used (to concern oneself with how alms are used would be judgmental), this act of kindness reflects on my own soul and helps to build it. It is better to give than to receive. 'Giv'ing is like for'give'ness. We all need to give and receive forgiveness in this world. It brings God nearer to you (i.e. it builds the God-Spirit within you). You will receive so much more than what you give. Receiving is a one-way street. Giving circles the block and comes back.

Here's your chance. Explain why I should give to the poor?

There are many kinds of poverty, and we all suffer from at least one of them. I'm tired of picking on you, Okinrus, so I won't explain the impoverished mindset that your question betrays in you. Medicine Woman nails it. The reason to alleviate anyone else's poverty is purely selfish : it feels good. There are other, more devious motives for philanthropy, but as I see it, when the expected return is anything more than a good feeling, that's not charity, that's manipulation. Charity is like a drug: it's there when you need it. We all walk by suffering every day, but when we need a lift, we can stop and help. BTW Med. Woman, try buying them a burger or a burrito next time. They won't refuse it. All that protein and vitamins just might give them their first moment of clarity in a while, and that could lead to.....

Personally, I'm on a crusade to rid the world of sexual poverty;) :o :p

I don't see any rational reason to help the poor. In fact it would only make me poorer and throw a wrench in natural evolution.

Ahhhh....the fruits of a life lived on the knees. What beautiful music it makes!

Originally posted by filibuster

BTW Med. Woman, try buying them a burger or a burrito next time. They won't refuse it. All that protein and vitamins just might give them their first moment of clarity in a while, and that could lead to.....


filibuster, once I was on my way home going through the city where there was a homeless person looking in trash cans for what I thought was something to eat. It was the holiday season, and I had a tray of food left over from a Xmas party at work. When I saw him foraging through the trash, I offered him this large platter of food that he could have shared with his homeless buddies. The guy took the platter and dumped it into the trash can without eating anything! It was almost as if he didn't even know what to do with it! There are so many people around here literally at every street corner with signs that say "will work for food." Yet, all of them seem to be quite well-fed! I find it hard to give to some beggars on the street when they have their ears plugged with CD players! But I try not to judge anyone. The act of giving unconditionally is healing.

I find it hard to give to some beggars on the street when they have their ears plugged with CD players! But I try not to judge anyone. The act of giving unconditionally is healing.

I understand two things here. First, that person hurt your feelings by taking your platter. It was a mistake to give him a platter. Whoppers are wrapped in useless paper. Second, you yourself are caught up in the accumulation of material things, as am I, and so you begrudge a beggar a frivilous item like a personal CD player. Instead, be grateful to him for being willing to live the way he does. Would you really prefer a world where everyone had an apartment and a computer? He's shattering paradigms in his own time.

Originally posted by filibuster
I understand two things here. First, that person hurt your feelings by taking your platter. It was a mistake to give him a platter. Whoppers are wrapped in useless paper. Second, you yourself are caught up in the accumulation of material things, as am I, and so you begrudge a beggar a frivilous item like a personal CD player. Instead, be grateful to him for being willing to live the way he does. Would you really prefer a world where everyone had an apartment and a computer? He's shattering paradigms in his own time.

No, that person did not hurt my 'feelings.' It was a disposable platter that I didn't even care about. I was more 'hurt' that he didn't want the food! I was 'hurt' too, that other homeless people couldn't benefit from my gift. I'm not really a materialistic person by nature, but I don't begrudge anyone for their material possessions. I made this comment because some people beg for 'food' even though their priorities (or needs) seem to be backward. If anyone told me they were hungry, I would feed them or see that they were fed. If I give them money and they go out and buy a pack of cigarettes, it is not for me to judge what they do with the money. My concern for the homeless person who tossed the platter of food was that at the stage of substance abuse that this man was in, food wasn't what was desired--his only desire was for more substance. As a person who cares about the human race, the 'hurt' I felt was when I grieved for him.

Originally posted by JDawg
There is nothing sinful about a homosexual act, pal. Homosexuals are born with that disposition, much in the same way some people have tendancies to prefer children sexually. It's not something someone just decides one day; same-sex attraction is as natural to a homosexual as opposite-sex attraction is to a heterosexual. You're born that way. I must admit, I like the way you tried to save yourself there, saying the homosexual "Act" is a mortal sin, as opposed to just being homosexual in itself. But you're backwards in your thinking there as well: Heterosexuals who take a vow of abstanence for life--or until marriage--do so out of free will and usually a strong bond with the god of their choosing. They don't ask that everyone else does it, nor do they condemn others for not following suit. This is usually why life-long abstanence is reserved for men of the cloth. To say a homosexual act is sinful, then you would be asking people of that persuasion to act like priests, and give up their right to choose for themselves. To expect every homosexual to supress that natural desire is oppresive and logically retarded.
JD

Abraham Maslow developed what he called A Hierarchy of Needs.
The human being has certain needs in descending order of the need:

First, we need air. Without air, only for a short period of time, we would die.

Second, we need water. We can live about 3 days without water.

Third, we need food. We can live a couple of weeks without food.

Fourth, we need sex. When sex is repressed (i.e. celibacy, etc.), it will reemerge in the form of a perversion (i.e. molestation by Catholic priests, etc.). This has NOTHING to do with whom we're naturally attracted to! Every human being has sexual needs. God created us as sexual beings, with both male and female hormones, and who we are attracted to is a natural part of that sexuality. Sex in and of itself is healthy, physically and spiritually. People live longer when they have an active sex life. An active sex life relieves stress in one's life, builds the immune system, releases endorphins and oxytocin in the brain which gives one an overall good feeling. In men with active sex lives, there is less prostatitis and prostate cancer! What is sexually attractive to consenting adults in private when they enjoy each other's bodies should not be judged by anyone. Sex enriches the soul.

Medicine Woman nails it. The reason to alleviate anyone else's poverty is purely selfish : it feels good. There are other, more devious motives for philanthropy, but as I see it, when the expected return is anything more than a good feeling, that's not charity, that's manipulation. Charity is like a drug: it's there when you need it. We all walk by suffering every day, but when we need a lift, we can stop and help. BTW Med. Woman, try buying them a burger or a burrito next time. They won't refuse it. All that protein and vitamins just might give them their first moment of clarity in a while, and that could lead to.....

Ok that's seem similar to God. "The reason to believe in God is purely selfish: it feels good". Perhaps it may be necessary to give to imaginary friends to produce the same feeling. Both are just as absurd, but your logic rejects only one.

I just assumed it was the platter because he threw away the food in the first place. Now, if you actually communicated with the guy, and he told you he wanted the food, then threw it away, he was just being an angry asshole. Maybe he really needed to hurt someone. I guess you gave him something he wanted after all.

I'm glad your charitable, secular, and tolerant. It's a great package to have.

I agree – we are a product of nature, and not some supernatural omnipotent being. But rather then calling nature a god, why not just call it "nature?"

There are a lot of people out there in a dubious relationship of convenience with some God, but also aware of other realities and not dismissive of them. Maybe the best way to rid of the G word in the long run is to use it when one of these people is trying to place new ideas into their heirarchy.

Okinrus, you are amazing. First you invoke humility that must not be allowed end, then you preach the evolutionary value of uncharitable behavior, and now

Perhaps it may be necessary to give to imaginary friends to produce the same feeling. Both are just as absurd, but your logic rejects only one.

Imaginary friend! Bwahahahaha. You are either one very silly, clever, and coy devil's advocate, or you love the taste of your toes. Which is it?

I think I'm on to you. Your a man of God but you fear nothingness more than hell itsellf, believe in evolution, practice miserly behavior, and spurn anyone with imaginary friends. Got it.

You also cannot tell the differnence between a 99 cent burger and your ability to perceive reality.

Both are just as absurd, but your logic rejects only one.

Since giving either one away for personal pleasure is equally absurd in your eyes.

Imaginary friend! Bwahahahaha. You are either one very silly, clever, and coy devil's advocate, or you love the taste of your toes. Which is it?

I have eaten with Satan. Yes, he likes to cast lots on your garments and divide your clothing. That's the real reason why M*W is wrong about sex.


I think I'm on to you. Your a man of God but you fear nothingness more than hell itsellf, believe in evolution, practice miserly behavior, and spurn anyone with imaginary friends. Got it.

Have you heard of the force of nothingness? http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=3248 This same force of nothingness is what is really causing the Universe to expand. Yes I believe in evolution in so far as our physical body was created. I didn't say I was miserly, only that it is irrational to give to the poor. When did I spurn anyone believing in imaginary friends? I have spoken to a few but haven't really had a full conversation.

Originally posted by okinrus
I have eaten with Satan. Yes, he likes to cast lots on your garments and divide your clothing. That's the real reason why M*W is wrong about sex.

So you are saying here that the Devil makes them (homosexuals) do it? Right? Sorry, but I don't understand what the hell you're trying to say. I notice there have been some comments directed to you, okinrus, saying that you rely far too heavily on Biblical scripture and you have no imagination to make comments on your own. Well, I see you have tried to say something original here, but from what I've read that you've posted tells me that you are a brainwashed geek who is sexually repressed and may be sexually perverted. There will come a time in our bioevolution when heterosexuality will be perverse. If sex is so bad, why did God and/or evolution make us sexual beings?

So you are saying here that the Devil makes them (homosexuals) do it? Right? Sorry, but I don't understand what the hell you're trying to say.

I'm not sure where you get the impression that I'm condemning people. I ate easter dinner with two homosexuals. Two very nice people. It just happens that I consider homosexuality a sin along with many other things.


I notice there have been some comments directed to you, okinrus, saying that you rely far too heavily on Biblical scripture and you have no imagination to make comments on your own.

Mozart had plenty of imagination while only using a few notes. Usually I won't use bibical scripture unless if I think that it's a generally held belief.


Well, I see you have tried to say something original here, but from what I've read that you've posted tells me that you are a brainwashed geek who is sexually repressed
and may be sexually perverted. There will come a time in our bioevolution when heterosexuality will be perverse.

No, I'm just far removed from your society of false light. There is no possibility that I could ever relate with you woman anyways.


If sex is so bad, why did God and/or evolution make us sexual beings?

Where did I say that sex was bad?

I have said this before, but even if it is selfish it says a lot more about an atheist when he gives to the poor than it says about "Good God Fearing Fold".

I only give money to bums that do something for me. One time I was hanging around outside my office building by myself at lunch. I started a conversation with a man who was there and obviously homeless. He suggested some books (Which I never jotted down so I can't remember them now) and told me some stories about his life. I bummed him a couple of cigarettes, and when I had to go in I walked inside with him and bought him lunch and thanked him. Another time I asked a hobo to dance or something if he wanted to earn some of my money. He did some sort of drunken jig so I payed up.

No one gives me money for the asking. Why should a guy who is drunk all day deserve my money for nothing? Don't tell me I should feel sorry for him because he likes the sauce either.

I do donate to a few charities every year though, and I take part in the little charity drives at work when they come around (Easter baskets for kids in battered women's shelters, can drives...) But it feels wrong to give away something for nothing.

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
Fourth, we need sex. When sex is repressed (i.e. celibacy, etc.), it will reemerge in the form of a perversion (i.e. molestation by Catholic priests, etc.). This has NOTHING to do with whom we're naturally attracted to! Every human being has sexual needs. God created us as sexual beings, with both male and female hormones, and who we are attracted to is a natural part of that sexuality. Sex in and of itself is healthy, physically and spiritually. People live longer when they have an active sex life. An active sex life relieves stress in one's life, builds the immune system, releases endorphins and oxytocin in the brain which gives one an overall good feeling. In men with active sex lives, there is less prostatitis and prostate cancer! What is sexually attractive to consenting adults in private when they enjoy each other's bodies should not be judged by anyone. Sex enriches the soul.
Could you email all of this directly to my girlfriend? Maybe I should get the health benefits tattooed on my arm so I remember them when ther eis no blood in my brain...