We know he had method, motive and opportunity...but then, so did dozens of other groups hostile to the US.

A day or so after, he said he DIDN'T have anything to do with it, that the CIA was lying...and THEN he takes credit?

These 19 or so Saudi hijackers - how did we know they even EXISTED? If they did, how do we know they worked for Osama? That they did NOT work for indirectly for Bush?

Sorry...I smell a rat.


Jaybee.

Why would Osama take credit for something he didn't do when it has resulted in him having to go into hiding, and having his safe-heaven in Afghanistan wiped out?

And I never heard Osama deny responsibility for 9/11. In fact, I distinctly remember a video where he brags about it, expresses shock and amusement that the planes where able to take down the towers, something he had not planned.

Jaybe, the rat you smell is called doubt, and is quite common. Most people would never plan something like 9-11 at all so we find it hard to believe someone is proud of it. We think it is too convienent and and possibly contrived. We ignore the evidence set before us and instead look for the stuff we can't find. The problem is out doubts are unfounded, we find nothing that supports them, but cling to them anyway as the truth is just too convienent.

By we I mean people in general

We know he had method, motive and opportunity...but then, so did dozens of other groups hostile to the US.

A day or so after, he said he DIDN'T have anything to do with it, that the CIA was lying...and THEN he takes credit?

These 19 or so Saudi hijackers - how did we know they even EXISTED? If they did, how do we know they worked for Osama? That they did NOT work for indirectly for Bush?

Sorry...I smell a rat.


Jaybee.
It is fairly obvious the CIA working in conjunction with Saudi intelligence formulated this event . The CIA on behalf of its plutocratic/corporate masters needed to manufacture public consent for an imperial war in the mideast to retain US corporate control of oil distribution . The Saudis gave the dupes to prosecute the attacks and the CIA in the US protected this group from outside interference .

Al Qaeda was then blamed for the attacks and a series of forged tapes appeared reinforcing this . And suspiciously Bin Laden has never been caught although he is in Afghanistan with US troops their . The last time America did something like this was Pearl Harbour , the US had broken all Japanese Naval/Military and diplomatic codes a year before . The US wanted to get into this war of imperial conquest badly .

It is fairly obvious the CIA working in conjunction with Saudi intelligence formulated this event . The CIA on behalf of its plutocratic/corporate masters needed to manufacture public consent for an imperial war in the mideast to retain US corporate control of oil distribution . The Saudis gave the dupes to prosecute the attacks and the CIA in the US protected this group from outside interference .

Al Qaeda was then blamed for the attacks and a series of forged tapes appeared reinforcing this . And suspiciously Bin Laden has never been caught although he is in Afghanistan with US troops their . The last time America did something like this was Pearl Harbour , the US had broken all Japanese Naval/Military and diplomatic codes a year before . The US wanted to get into this war of imperial conquest badly .

Your proof?

I think they had found a passport near WTC.

Jaybe, the rat you smell is called doubt, and is quite common. Most people would never plan something like 9-11 at all so we find it hard to believe someone is proud of it. We think it is too convienent and and possibly contrived. We ignore the evidence set before us and instead look for the stuff we can't find. The problem is out doubts are unfounded, we find nothing that supports them, but cling to them anyway as the truth is just too convienent.

By we I mean people in general

Yes, I got the 'we' part, and I'm glad I'm not part of that particular 'we'.

I don't doubt the truth for being convenient - actually, the truth ISN'T that convenient; I doubt it because it's so hard to believe. Scenario; it's July, 2000. You're on a flight and decide to go and see the pilots cabin. You get out of your seat, and stroll towards the front of the plane. How far do you think you'd have gotten being challenged or meeting a locked door?

I'm supposed to believe that, after all the hassle over plane hijackings in the 80's/90's, a bunch of guys armed only with knives FORCED their way into 3 locked cockpits? How did they gain entry, wait until one of the pilots had to go pee and grab the door as he opened it? Gee, why didn't I think of that? AND The pilots don't have internal CCTV to monitor the passengers?

I know it's a long shot for a forum full of unemployed, students and housewives, but are there any commercial pilots here who could shed some light?

Before 9-11, it was typical for aircrew to comply with the demands of hijackers, with the goal of safely landing the aircraft and negotiating hostage release. Post 9-11, the entire paradigm has changed, including likely passenger responses. As a result, hijacking as we knew it before 9-11 is probably over- even without locked, reinforced cockpit doors, etc: Today hijackers face far less co-operateive victims throughout the aircraft.

On a separate note, as a Commercial pilot I have from shortly after the event had the strong suspicion that the terrorist aviators of 9-11 were trained in the Royal Saudi Air Force, but that this angle is repressed.

The 3-for-3 attack runs that were flown far surpassed the abilities of below-average civilian-trained light aircraft pilots (as we are told these Saudi pilots were). Those runs into the WTC and Pentagon seem far more likely to have been flown by pilots trained and proficient (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=30590) in low-level, high-speed weapons delivery.

How do we KNOW Osama planned 9-11?
Because he did.

Your proof?
What do you want signed Affadavits from members of the CIA ?
Ask me a series of questions you would like answered and I will provide you what I can .

What do you want signed Affadavits from members of the CIA ?
Ask me a series of questions you would like answered and I will provide you what I can .

No, give me what proof you have, this is not question and answer thius is you making a claim. You have to proove your claim, as it is counter to what most sane people know.

Um, because he claimed responsibility?
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/10/29/binladen_message041029.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html

Actually, it was Khalid Shaikh Mohammed that planned it.

Before 9-11, it was typical for aircrew to comply with the demands of hijackers, with the goal of safely landing the aircraft and negotiating hostage release. Post 9-11, the entire paradigm has changed, including likely passenger responses. As a result, hijacking as we knew it before 9-11 is probably over- even without locked, reinforced cockpit doors, etc: Today hijackers face far less co-operateive victims throughout the aircraft.

On a separate note, as a Commercial pilot I have from shortly after the event had the strong suspicion that the terrorist aviators of 9-11 were trained in the Royal Saudi Air Force, but that this angle is repressed.

The 3-for-3 attack runs that were flown far surpassed the abilities of below-average civilian-trained light aircraft pilots (as we are told these Saudi pilots were). Those runs into the WTC and Pentagon seem far more likely to have been flown by pilots trained and proficient (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=30590) in low-level, high-speed weapons delivery.

A THOUSAND "Thank you'"s !!!!

You don't know how awash with honour I am to finally talk get answers here from someone with actual real-life experience!

And that's a hell of a thought to process...

I don't think it would take much training to fly a plane into a stationary object. They are large vehicles, but it's landing and taking off that are difficult. Most pilots I know say that these kind of jets have very easy manners in the air.

BTW, how do we know anything on the news? How can we as individuals confirm anything that happens outside our own immediate experience?

No, give me what proof you have, this is not question and answer thius is you making a claim. You have to proove your claim, as it is counter to what most sane people know.
Well for starters this is about CIA foreknowledge .
CIA admits foreknowledge of 9-11 (http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI205A.html)
We had very, very good intelligence of the general structure and strategies of the al Qaeda terrorist organization. We knew and we warned that al Qaeda was planning a major strike. There need be no question about that.
A Timeline Surrounding September 11th (http://globalresearch.ca/articles/RUP112A.html)
On October 31, the French daily Le Figaro dropped a bombshell. While in a Dubai hospital receiving treatment for a chronic kidney infection last July, Osama bin Laden met with a top CIA official - presumably the Chief of Station. The meeting, held in bin Laden's private suite, took place at the American hospital in Dubai at a time when he was a wanted fugitive for the bombings of two U.S. embassies and this year's attack on the U.S.S. Cole. Bin Laden was eligible for execution according to a 2000 intelligence finding issued by President Bill Clinton before leaving office in January. Yet on July 14th he was allowed to leave Dubai on a private jet and there were no Navy fighters waiting to force him down.

Um, because he claimed responsibility?
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/10/29/binladen_message041029.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html

Actually, it was Khalid Shaikh Mohammed that planned it.
Um no your tape was a proven fake .
Fake Bin Laden Tapes (http://www.unknownnews.org/060214a-Barrett.html)
The CIA verified it as authentic and then got a rotten egg in the face when the world's foremost voice identification experts in Switzerland reported that "the message was recorded by an impostor."
But the only verified of Osama was here denying it .
Bin Laden: AUTHENTIC INTERVIEW (http://www.public-action.com/911/oblintrv.html)
"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.

America did it to themselves, I knew it as I watched it happen live on tv....

The plane, had it been unidentified and not where it should have been would been interecepted/shot down why wasn't it, why wasn't the second one? Why was it allowed to get so close. Emphasis being on 'allowed'.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-14.htm

quoted from above link:
F-14 Tomcat
The F-14 Tomcat is a supersonic, twin-engine, variable sweep wing, two-place fighter designed to attack and destroy enemy aircraft at night and in all weather conditions. The F-14 can track up to 24 targets simultaneously with its advanced weapons control system and attack six with Phoenix AIM-54A missiles while continuing to scan the airspace. Armament also includes a mix of other air intercept missiles, rockets and bombs.

The Grumman F-14, the world's premier air defense fighter, was designed to replace the F-4 Phantom II fighter (phased out in 1986). F-14s provided air cover for the joint strike on Libyan terrorist targets in 1986. The F-14A was introduced in the mid-1970s. The upgraded F-14A+ version, with new General Electric F-110 engines, now widespread throughout the fleet, is more than a match for enemy fighters in close-in, air combat.

The AWG-9 is a pulse-Doppler, multi-mode radar with a designed capability to track 24 targets at the same time while simultaneously devising and executing fire control solutions for 6 targets. Designed in the 1960's and one of the oldest air-to-air radar systems, the AWG-9 is still the most powerful and new software will increase its capabilities for the 21st century

While the F-14 continues to meet current operational commitments, the Navy has been working to improve those aircraft systems which are the highest readiness degraders; which include the radar transmitter, inertial navigation system, and radar antenna. "


I found this with a quick google, so may be completely unrelated system used in that particular scenario, I guess the actual defence system guys were having a tea break the time the planes idled into civilian air space. The government has plenty of systems for detecting and intercepting unidentified trespassers..where were they?

I see Brian has said it all already:
"It is fairly obvious the CIA working in conjunction with Saudi intelligence formulated this event . The CIA on behalf of its plutocratic/corporate masters needed to manufacture public consent for an imperial war in the mideast to retain US corporate control of oil distribution . The Saudis gave the dupes to prosecute the attacks and the CIA in the US protected this group from outside interference .

Al Qaeda was then blamed for the attacks and a series of forged tapes appeared reinforcing this . And suspiciously Bin Laden has never been caught although he is in Afghanistan with US troops their . The last time America did something like this was Pearl Harbour , the US had broken all Japanese Naval/Military and diplomatic codes a year before . The US wanted to get into this war of imperial conquest badly .

In case you want to know why America did it to themselves, why defense is the best excuse for attack of course.

also, the towers were targets of arab terrorists in the past.
precedence.

Well now , like Osama says , "Ima muslim I dun lie man"

End of story. I mean he wouldnt lie.


You people are a joke.

Well now , like Osama says , "Ima muslim I dun lie man"

End of story. I mean he wouldnt lie.


You people are a joke.

Well at least we DO KNOW BUSH lies :) He lied about weapons of mass destruction in IRAQ. Nuff said

also, the towers were targets of arab terrorists in the past.
precedence.

details?

No, give me what proof you have, this is not question and answer thius is you making a claim. You have to proove your claim, as it is counter to what most sane people know.

Most Sane people smell a rat. It's the insane ones who fall for the official story.

details?

Back in 92 or 93 was it ? when Clinton was Prez.
See back then it was Muslim terrorists -- not on 9-11 though... G.W. thought to himself, hmmmmmmm what can we do to start a war in Iraq ??? We got to secure their oil men!! hmmmmmm What can we do ??!!!
I know I know !!
Lets get Saudi Arabia to give us 20 or 30 patsies and we will pretend that they flew the planes into the WTC bringing them both down. Yeah thats it !! You see they did it in 92 so everyone will just think that they did it again!!


MAHUAHUHUABAUAHAUHAUAHUAHAUHAUHAUHAUHA!!!!

Well now , like Osama says , "Ima muslim I dun lie man"

End of story. I mean he wouldnt lie.


You people are a joke.

Tell me Oli, what "proof" do you have that this attack was carried out by Bin Laden?

Well considering that no person is completely sane, I guess that fits.

Well considering that no person is completely sane, I guess that fits.
Speaking of insane people , you arent ignoring this on purpose are you ?
I would like an answer .
No, give me what proof you have, this is not question and answer thius is you making a claim. You have to proove your claim, as it is counter to what most sane people know.
Well for starters this is about CIA foreknowledge .
CIA admits foreknowledge of 9-11 (http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI205A.html)
We had very, very good intelligence of the general structure and strategies of the al Qaeda terrorist organization. We knew and we warned that al Qaeda was planning a major strike. There need be no question about that.
A Timeline Surrounding September 11th (http://globalresearch.ca/articles/RUP112A.html)
On October 31, the French daily Le Figaro dropped a bombshell. While in a Dubai hospital receiving treatment for a chronic kidney infection last July, Osama bin Laden met with a top CIA official - presumably the Chief of Station. The meeting, held in bin Laden's private suite, took place at the American hospital in Dubai at a time when he was a wanted fugitive for the bombings of two U.S. embassies and this year's attack on the U.S.S. Cole. Bin Laden was eligible for execution according to a 2000 intelligence finding issued by President Bill Clinton before leaving office in January. Yet on July 14th he was allowed to leave Dubai on a private jet and there were no Navy fighters waiting to force him down.

Um no your tape was a proven fake .

But the only verified of Osama was here denying it .
How do you know those websites aren't fake? Doesn't it all come down to "who do you trust?".

How do you know those websites aren't fake? Doesn't it all come down to "who do you trust?".

No, it's a case of who I distrust the least.

Jaybee.

No, it's a case of who I distrust the least.

Jaybee.
and spidergoat et al, you people dont seem
to have really focused vision/blinkered. you dont seem to be open to dots connecting.....? how clues fit togther. most strange
for instance have already put in hralie Sheen tread how i found out today that 9-11 Commission chair-Thomas Kean-has business links with Osama's brote-in-law.....?

details?
the blind sheik is in prison right now because he planned the failed wtc bombings in the 90's, if im not mistaken.

How do you know those websites aren't fake? Doesn't it all come down to "who do you trust?".
The tape is fake deal with it , and the blogsite is where I got the story from because if you want to read it at the Detroit newspaper it is at you have to register . In fact there is no evidence Al-Qaeda actually exists as Osama Bin Laden has never used that term .

The tape is fake deal with it , and the blogsite is where I got the story from because if you want to read it at the Detroit newspaper it is at you have to register . In fact there is no evidence Al-Qaeda actually exists as Osama Bin Laden has never used that term .


The tape is real, deal with it...

See how that works? Now, where's your evidence the tape is fake?

The tape is real, deal with it...

See how that works? Now, where's your evidence the tape is fake?

It's circumstantial. You have no proof that the tape is real, unless you have inside info.

Jaybee.

The tape is real, deal with it...

See how that works? Now, where's your evidence the tape is fake?
what i am noticing about you people who fail to see anything untoward with the OFFICIAL story(S) is this: you just come to these discussions wit stuff like:



'ohhh no it isn't!'....as thugh that is enough or something...haha d'ya get me?
probably NOT

You would probably find, Duendy, that if you concentrated on gaining at least an average literacy level and spoke coherantly, more might "get you". Presuming they had the time to actually read through and try to understand it. It is an effort, after all.

There are very few who are willing to say straight out that the USA has absolutely nothing to hide in the 9/11 saga. However, taking an extra step and following on the bandwagon of a illiterate nutcase (yes, that is you) is certainly not a rational choice to make.

Brian Foley has now come forward saying that Osama Bin Laden has never publically admitted that Al-Quaeda exists. That it is quite possible it never has existed, and that he has proof of this. I can't help but be reminded of David Irving.

Let me put it this way.
If there are hidden agendas concerned with 9/11 that the authortities are covering up, Duendy, Cool Skill, and Brian Fooly and the like are quite possibly better red herrings than anything they could have thought up themselves. What better cover could they have?
An illiterate hippie, and tin-hat wearing Australian who thinks his own country has no culture because it has never produced a Samuel Clemens, and a wannabe actor who has decided never to get a job because sitting on welfare is a way of taking down the system from within.

Heh. You do sound like a " mismatched buddies vs the authorities" type of movie. You know, the ones where the authorities are all incompetant clowns and you three, despite your... obvious handicaps, manage to bumble your way to victory through the support of the smart and extremely good looking blonde newspaper reporter (who naturally falls in love with Brian after seeing the real man hidden within the paranoid), amid many humourous and whacky adventures. You know, the type of movie where we're all supposed to feel good at the end because of your triumph over incredible odds and your indomitable spirit (and showing the authorities falling down a staircase or two never goes astray).
Good luck though.




...
(Ad hominem is SO much fun!)

You would probably find, Duendy, that if you concentrated on gaining at least an average literacy level and spoke coherantly, more might "get you". Presuming they had the time to actually read through and try to understand it. It is an effort, after all.

There are very few who are willing to say straight out that the USA has absolutely nothing to hide in the 9/11 saga. However, taking an extra step and following on the bandwagon of a illiterate nutcase (yes, that is you) is certainly not a rational choice to make.

Brian Foley has now come forward saying that Osama Bin Laden has never publically admitted that Al-Quaeda exists. That it is quite possible it never has existed, and that he has proof of this. I can't help but be reminded of David Irving.

Let me put it this way.
If there are hidden agendas concerned with 9/11 that the authortities are covering up, Duendy, Cool Skill, and Brian Fooly and the like are quite possibly better red herrings than anything they could have thought up themselves. What better cover could they have?
An illiterate hippie, and tin-hat wearing Australian who thinks his own country has no culture because it has never produced a Samuel Clemens, and a wannabe actor who has decided never to get a job because sitting on welfare is a way of taking down the system from within.

Heh. You do sound like a " mismatched buddies vs the authorities" type of movie. You know, the ones where the authorities are all incompetant clowns and you three, despite your... obvious handicaps, manage to bumble your way to victory through the support of the smart and extremely good looking blonde newspaper reporter (who naturally falls in love with Brian after seeing the real man hidden within the paranoid), amid many humourous and whacky adventures. You know, the type of movie where we're all supposed to feel good at the end because of your triumph over incredible odds and your indomitable spirit (and showing the authorities falling down a staircase or two never goes astray).
Good luck though.




...
(Ad hominem is SO much fun!)

whereas all your arguments on the other hand are well reasoned and valid...

if the above is anything to go by and I haven't read anything else you've written then what you are saying is that ....you have NOTHING to say.

Unless you call sitting on your arse taking personal pot shots at individuals who differ in view or method of expressing that view to yours, as something to say?

Nope, you have done yourself a diservice, set yourself up as time waster.

whereas all your arguments on the other hand are well reasoned and valid...

if the above is anything to go by and I haven't read anything else you've written then what you are saying is that ....you have NOTHING to say.

Unless you call sitting on your arse taking personal pot shots at individuals who differ in view or method of expressing that view to yours, as something to say?

Nope, you have done yourself a diservice, set yourself up as time waster.

Unless harelequin you are masquerading, your literary style reminds me of someone, pity as that someone was someone to be admired. 'O'

"I am not the first person to be imprisoned for my faith, nor will I be the last." -Sheikh Omar AbdurRahman

Sheikh Omer Abderrahmane, is an elderly Egyptian cleric imprisoned in 1995 under sedition laws last used during the American civil war. Convicted of wishing to blow up the world trade centre and overthrowing Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, the Sheikh is now serving several life sentences in Springfield Prison, Missouri. The Sheikh’s alleged crimes were not even for conspiracy, but for simply having the desire. His lawyer, a former US attorney general Ramsey Clark, has since his client's internment been denied access to his client, and recently wrote to the current attorney general Janet Reno claiming that there was an attempt by the prison authorities to kill the Sheikh. This comes in the wake of repeated abuse and humiliation by guards, who strip searched and internally examined the Sheikh before and after each visit he received. The Sheikh is 59 years old, is blind and suffers from diabetes and a number of other complaints, some of which are life threatening. He has consistently been refused a translator (he does not speak English), and since March 1997 has been kept in solitary confinement in dark and filthy conditions. Clark states in his letter, 'It would be difficult to devise a crueller plan to kill him.'

The Sheikh has always denied that he ever wanted or plotted to blow up sites in the US, but admits that as a Muslim and a believer in universal justice he would like to see the oppressive regime of Hosni Mubarak overturned.

www.aliasoft.com/themes/rahman.html

Also Ladn is innocent, he denied the accusation many times. the only tape where he 'admittted' the charge for blowing the buildings was in a tape captured by American soldiers inside a cave in Thura Bura Mountains. Many scholars have deemed that tape as fradulent.

This situation is identical of Reichstag bombing which Hitler used to support genocide of innocent Jews, Pearl Harbor attacks which gave public support to war with Japan and internment camps for innocent Japanese.

The 9/11 attacks were used by the government to increase support for a war on the Islamic world which is in full swing now. Muslims are under attack physically, phychologically, and culturally from all directions by the West lead by the US and its allies.

Peace.

This situation is identical of Reichstag bombing which Hitler used to support genocide of innocent Jews, Pearl Harbor attacks which gave public support to war with Japan and internment camps for innocent Japanese.

The 9/11 attacks were used by the government to increase support for a war on the Islamic world which is in full swing now. Muslims are under attack physically, phychologically, and culturally from all directions by the West lead by the US and its allies.

Peace.

Agreed

Have faith though Diamond Heart, most of the people I speak to are aware that America is waging war for oil and other reasons! We peasants just aren't the ones controlling the media are we?

if the above is anything to go by and I haven't read anything else you've written then what you are saying is that ....you have NOTHING to say.
Well that's simply stupid.
If I read only "Captain Corelli's Mandolin" and ignored all of Louis De Bernieres' books on account of that fact that I didn't like that one, I would have missed quite an amount of entertaining reading.

Now if I'd said "nothing" you would have seen one of two things.
1. A blank page.
2. The word "nothing", and nothing else.
Clearly, I wrote neither, opting instead for ad hominem attacks on those who truly, truly deserve little else. along with the point that their theories and methods of presentation were probably doing more for any official coverup than the coverup itself was.

Unless you call sitting on your arse taking personal pot shots at individuals who differ in view or method of expressing that view to yours, as something to say?
I'm not singling out individuals because they have opinions differing from mine.
I'm singling out absolute morons who, if you're anything to go by, personify one of the more ridiculous ideas in internet argument these days - that everyone has something to say and should be listened to, regardless of who they are (and whether or not they can spell).
Now, I actually had a social experiment in mind when I wrote that.
I how many people would attack me and justify Duendy (and ilk), not because of what I said or have done in the past but out of sympathy.
I have my answer. You'd rather illiterate fools posted, than those pointing them out as being such. Something more to laugh at.

Nope, you have done yourself a diservice, set yourself up as time waster.
If I have wasted your time, I'm terribly... unconcerned. I have not wasted mine, and I would only have done myself a disservice if your opinion, and that of those like you, was valuable to me.

You would probably find, Duendy, that if you concentrated on gaining at least an average literacy level and spoke coherantly, more might "get you". Presuming they had the time to actually read through and try to understand it. It is an effort, after all.

me)))look you dick--whose only been around 112 posts, i have mor savvy how here opreates tan you, right? ands i know that dicks like yo who have nurthin to contribute and cannot form an argument always go on about someone's literacy. well idiot, links etc i have forewarded to here and other places are not typoed ...yet, clown, people STILL refuse to see. do you understand?....doubt it!

There are very few who are willing to say straight out that the USA has absolutely nothing to hide in the 9/11 saga. However, taking an extra step and following on the bandwagon of a illiterate nutcase (yes, that is you) is certainly not a rational choice to make.

me)))))'an' illiterate nutcase, idiot!

Brian Foley has now come forward saying that Osama Bin Laden has never publically admitted that Al-Quaeda exists. That it is quite possible it never has existed, and that he has proof of this. I can't help but be reminded of David Irving.

me))))yeah you would make a complete stupid analogy like that....cause ya thick!

Let me put it this way.
If there are hidden agendas concerned with 9/11 that the authortities are covering up, Duendy, Cool Skill, and Brian Fooly and the like are quite possibly better red herrings than anything they could have thought up themselves. What better cover could they have?
An illiterate hippie, and tin-hat wearing Australian who thinks his own country has no culture because it has never produced a Samuel Clemens, and a wannabe actor who has decided never to get a job because sitting on welfare is a way of taking down the system from within.

me)))))and an idiot like you giving character references. makes ye fink dun it?

Heh. You do sound like a " mismatched buddies vs the authorities" type of movie. You know, the ones where the authorities are all incompetant clowns and you three, despite your... obvious handicaps, manage to bumble your way to victory through the support of the smart and extremely good looking blonde newspaper reporter (who naturally falls in love with Brian after seeing the real man hidden within the paranoid), amid many humourous and whacky adventures. You know, the type of movie where we're all supposed to feel good at the end because of your triumph over incredible odds and your indomitable spirit (and showing the authorities falling down a staircase or two never goes astray).
Good luck though.




...
(Ad hominem is SO much fun!)
mightbe for someone who can carry it off in humourous way. your shit is justplain sad and UNfunny

what i am noticing about you people who fail to see anything untoward with the OFFICIAL story(S) is this: you just come to these discussions wit stuff like:



'ohhh no it isn't!'....as thugh that is enough or something...haha d'ya get me?
probably NOT


Actually, duendy, it's the other way around. The tape is fake deal with it

Yes, that is one of your fellow conspiracy wacks. His argument is so convincing, it's no wonder you've fallen for it. I saw in another thread that you're from the UK, duendy. I must say, you're giving the British a really bad image, both with your fanaticism and your inability to spell or use proper grammar. :m:

It's circumstantial. You have no proof that the tape is real, unless you have inside info.

Jaybee.


And you have no proof it is fake, in fact you have yet to provide any reasonable doubt whatsoever of it's authenticity. So, I would be correct in claiming that the tape is real. After all, video evidence is quite compelling, more so then the word of an anonymous, anti-American, conspiracy jockey, no?

Well that's simply stupid.
If I read only "Captain Corelli's Mandolin" and ignored all of Louis De Bernieres' books on account of that fact that I didn't like that one, I would have missed quite an amount of entertaining reading.

Now if I'd said "nothing" you would have seen one of two things.
1. A blank page.
2. The word "nothing", and nothing else.
Clearly, I wrote neither, opting instead for ad hominem attacks on those who truly, truly deserve little else. along with the point that their theories and methods of presentation were probably doing more for any official coverup than the coverup itself was.


I'm not singling out individuals because they have opinions differing from mine.
I'm singling out absolute morons who, if you're anything to go by, personify one of the more ridiculous ideas in internet argument these days - that everyone has something to say and should be listened to, regardless of who they are (and whether or not they can spell).
Now, I actually had a social experiment in mind when I wrote that.
I how many people would attack me and justify Duendy (and ilk), not because of what I said or have done in the past but out of sympathy.
I have my answer. You'd rather illiterate fools posted, than those pointing them out as being such. Something more to laugh at.


If I have wasted your time, I'm terribly... unconcerned. I have not wasted mine, and I would only have done myself a disservice if your opinion, and that of those like you, was valuable to me.

once again you have NOTHING to contribute to the thread, being literate is unhelpful if at the end of the day all you write is meaningless crap.

Meanwhile my opinion was valuable to you, because you took such care in your reply. Compare the length of yours to mine...and see who values whom the least, have a nice day :)

Actually, duendy, it's the other way around.

me)))oh yeahhhh? what?

Yes, that is one of your fellow conspiracy wacks. His argument is so convincing, it's no wonder you've fallen for it.

me)))its quite simple quackmoon. HE PRESENTS sources/evidence that explain......do you understand....? They have details....links for further exploration. stuff like that. the likes you you arrogant no-marks bring nuthin but empty words and insult.

I saw in another thread that you're from the UK, duendy. I must say, you're giving the British a really bad image, both with your fanaticism and your inability to spell or use proper grammar. :m:
hahahaha....oh yeah, i am real representative of Blighty. here i sit draped in the Union Jack, wit pic of olfd Queenie on the wall......youuuu plonker you..hahaah

once again you have NOTHING to contribute to the thread, being literate is unhelpful if at the end of the day all you write is meaningless crap.

Meanwhile my opinion was valuable to you, because you took such care in your reply. Compare the length of yours to mine...and see who values whom the least, have a nice day :)

1. Meaningless crap from a literate poster, or
2. Meaningless crap from an illiterate poster.

I'll take #1, please. :m:

hahahaha....oh yeah, i am real representative of Blighty. here i sit draped in the Union Jack, wit pic of olfd Queenie on the wall......youuuu plonker you..hahaah

I like how you write responses inside the quote box, cute. Sadly, they are about as useful as the dirt under my shoe. Keep posting the conspiracies though, they entertain me. ;)

I like how you write responses inside the quote box, cute. Sadly, they are about as useful as the dirt under my shoe. Keep posting the conspiracies though, they entertain me. ;)
hey yu callous indifferent unintelligent person who goes on and on and is concerned more with silly text displays than human lives and justice. i am not fukin here to entertain the likes of you

i am not fukin here to entertain the likes of you

No? Well, you're certainly doing a wonderful job for someone who isn't trying.

No? Well, you're certainly doing a wonderful job for someone who isn't trying.

RIGHT. clear. Now mr quarkmoon. what have you to say about the subject of this thread? out or nowt?

RIGHT. clear. Now mr quarkmoon. what have you to say about the subject of this thread? out or nowt?

Oh, back on topic now? I've already posted a video of Osama gloating about the attacks. What more is needed?

mightbe for someone who can carry it off in humourous way. your shit is justplain sad and UNfunny
The fact that I find you amusing is no particular reason to try to be funny myself now, is it?
In other words, your point is that anyone at all is allowed to call you a fool - as long as they're being amusing about it in the process.

I almost missed the rest. Didn't realise you'd embedded your main reply in the quote, at first. But here we are.

me)))look you dick--whose only been around 112 posts, i have mor savvy how here opreates tan you, right?
Ah, here we are back at the assumption that volume of words or posts is directly proportional to intelligence and/or correctness of argument - or, at the very least, infers authority. Do you know something which I'll admit with a certain sad amusement?
Judging by the response to your posts and others like you....you might be right.

I have actually been floating around this place in several guises (nick depending on mood) for quite a few years now. Therefore, if your argument is correct - I know more about everything than you do because I've been here longer. Now... see how utterly silly that is?

And judging by the quality (or lack thereof) in your posts, I'd say anyone with a single digit post count would know a little more of forum dynamics than you do. 6000 posts of random bullshit from an illiterate fool does not constitute intelligence, and certainly not quality. Don't make excuses, duendy. You're illiterate. Do not try to cover that fact by telling yourself I'm pointing it out to cover for my own shortcomings. I'm pointing out the fact that you're illiterate because you're illiterate. In addition, I find your continual excuses, and your squirming, amusing and disgusting at the same time. Anyone with a modicum of character would certainly attempt to do something about it. At the very least, run a post through a spellchecker. That at least, you could do something about. Your grammar, unfortunately, is quite unrecoverable without several years of corrective schooling.


ands i know that dicks like yo who have nurthin to contribute and cannot form an argument always go on about someone's literacy.
I have little to contribute as far as you're concerned, that much is true. It would, you see, be a waste of time - if I was here in some vain hope that you'll suddenly become intelligent, insightful and learn anything from what anyone else has to say who doesn't agree with you.
However, I am not here for that reason. Whatever gave you the idea that I consider you anything other than a source of amusement and scorn?
Now.. on to your next question (or assumption, as the case may be). Why do I bother to continually point it out when I see it? Why not just leave you alone in your little foolish world?
Because I enjoy it, of course. It gives me pleasure to deride you.

well idiot, links etc i have forewarded to here and other places are not typoed ...yet, clown, people STILL refuse to see. do you understand?....doubt it!
I've even taken the time to read one or two. What makes you think that because you took the time to spell them right (copy and paste, hmmm?) makes them legit?
They're not. People don't refuse to see, duendy. They quite honestly think you're a fool. I do too. Stop making excuses for it.

me)))))'an' illiterate nutcase, idiot!
An illiterate nutcase, yes. Perhaps you were repeating the thought in the hopes you might make sense of it? Oh wait. I missed an "n". Silly me, typing things at work while I'm in a hurry. How long did it take you to find it? Did you enlist someone to help? Heh. You must have looked so hard. And I can just feel that little burst of triumph, when you did. Oh, the joy of that discovery!
How utterly delicious.

me))))yeah you would make a complete stupid analogy like that....cause ya thick!
And yo mama's a ho.
Is that it? All you have? How utterly disappointing. Here I am spending a long while deciphering your post in an attempt to find something to indicate the illiteracy is a disguise for a great mind... and I find you using playground insults when you're lost for words (or those little seemingly random combinations of characters you insist pass for words). How utterly disappointing. But not entirely unexpected.

and an idiot like you giving character references. makes ye fink dun it?
I'm certainly not giving character references - I'm making fun of you. There is a difference, you know.
By your standards, I'm sure that does make me ... a fink.
I have to admit - anything which makes you "fink" would be something entirely unusual - and rather rare.

Didn't he admit to it?

Didn't he admit to it?

Yes.

then how would we not know???

"In fact there is no evidence Al-Qaeda actually exists as Osama Bin Laden has never used that term ."

Come now Brian. This is plain stupid. Just because Osama doesnt call it 'Al-Qaeda' doesnt mean what we call 'Al-Qaeda' doesnt exist. That is like saying the 'Mob' doesnt exist because those involved in it call it the 'Mafia' or 'Family'.

I guess gasoline doesnt exist either since those in England and Europe call it Petrol.

once again you have NOTHING to contribute to the thread, being literate is unhelpful if at the end of the day all you write is meaningless crap.

Meanwhile my opinion was valuable to you, because you took such care in your reply. Compare the length of yours to mine...and see who values whom the least, have a nice day :)

Oh, I've had a terrible day. Simply awful. I do thank you for the sentiment, though. And for the record, I am giving this thread every bit of attention that it deserves.

I just thought I'd point out that it was in fact you who first responded to me, when I had at that time not addressed you at all.

So that particular argument, transparent as it is (but certainly worthy of the level of psychological one upmanship played here, on average), suddenly makes you take on a remarkable resemblence to the Hindenburg a few seconds before a passenger remarked "Is it just me, or is it getting warm in here..."

then how would we not know???

I don't know, ask Brian Foley or Jaybee. I'm sure they will come up with something.

Hey Harlequin, srry you've had a lousy day and sorry i'veproabably added to it. i have had a lovely day so i feels fo ya.
butttttt, i will en wit a sting. you are cruel and condescending to the illiterate andddddd PREliterate peoples of the world

I'm cruel and condescending to the illiterate peoples of the world? Why yes, I am, those born in the richer nations who have no excuse for it. It's fun when they consider themselves intelligent and clearly, they are not.
Face it. You had all the advantages others in the world never had, and you threw it all away and still somehow consider yourself intelligent. It's disgusting. And you had a wonderful day? I'm not surprised. They do say that ignorance is bliss.

I have no idea what "preliterate" is meant to mean, in your context. Are you saying you're going to learn, you just haven't gotten around to it yet? That one day you'll become a Rhodes scholar or something?

As for you trying to "sting" me... good lord, Duendy. That's a little like a five year old thinking he could beat me in a fight. All one can do in return is stare in utter amusement.

Funny funny stuff.

I'm cruel and condescending to the illiterate peoples of the world? Why yes, I am, those born in the richer nations who have no excuse for it. It's fun when they consider themselves intelligent and clearly, they are not.
Face it. You had all the advantages others in the world never had, and you threw it all away and still somehow consider yourself intelligent. It's disgusting. And you had a wonderful day? I'm not surprised. They do say that ignorance is bliss.

I have no idea what "preliterate" is meant to mean, in your context. Are you saying you're going to learn, you just haven't gotten around to it yet? That one day you'll become a Rhodes scholar or something?

As for you trying to "sting" me... good lord, Duendy. That's a little like a five year old thinking he could beat me in a fight. All one can do in return is stare in utter amusement.
you are so far up your smelly arse turds are stikin outta yer ears

Its funny how people who vote for Bush just cant answer simple questions about WTC collapse

hey yu callous indifferent unintelligent person who goes on and on and is concerned more with silly text displays than human lives and justice. i am not fukin here to entertain the likes of you

greate Point , this shows How super smart these people are

"In fact there is no evidence Al-Qaeda actually exists as Osama Bin Laden has never used that term ."

Come now Brian. This is plain stupid. Just because Osama doesnt call it 'Al-Qaeda' doesnt mean what we call 'Al-Qaeda' doesnt exist. That is like saying the 'Mob' doesnt exist because those involved in it call it the 'Mafia' or 'Family'.

I guess gasoline doesnt exist either since those in England and Europe call it Petrol.

Bin laden may not be alive either, No wonder they cant catch him

Remember this American commision report ? Remember when it finally was finished and had given its recommendations not one US institution , US Government dept not even an individual has been named as a culprit for responsibility for the incompetence ! Here the commission criticizes ( not blames ) 2 govt administrations for not recoginising the threat posed .
The Sept. 11 commission on Thursday criticized both the Bush and Clinton administrations for failing to fully grasp or effectively combat the threat posed by al Qaeda and recommended a radical shake-up of U.S. intelligence to meet future dangers. The final report issued unanimously by the 10-member commission pointed to "deep institutional failings" and missed opportunities to thwart the hijackings by al Qaeda operatives, which killed almost 3,000 people in 2001.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&s (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=5751908) toryID=5751908
The same day the commission released its findings the CIA defends itself on this charge , so why didn’t the commission grill the govt to explain why it ignored these repeated warnings from the most important institution in America the CIA ?
The CIA defended itself against criticism in the Sept. 11 commission report released on Thursday and said it had repeatedly warned of the possibility of terrorists using hijacked planes before the 2001 attacks.
"CIA regularly reported on threats to civil aviation including hijacking," a senior CIA official said. http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&s (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=5750407) toryID=5750407
This is a serious accusation in what amounts to a serious act of dereliction of duty on the side of the CIA and FBI !
The report listed 10 missed opportunities by the CIA and the FBI, four in August 2001, to interpret or share information that could have helped them penetrate the Sept. 11 plot to attack the World Trade Center and Pentagon.
Below the CIA claim in no uncertain terms the gravity of the threat and clearly this could have been acted on ! Yet no individual from the Federal Aviation Administration has been idicted for official incompetence .
The CIA official, however, said the spy agency in 1999 had provided the Federal Aviation Administration with language to use in briefing U.S. airline officials that read: "Osama bin Laden remains interested in targeting U.S. interests including on U.S. territory. He is well prepared to consider kidnappings and hijackings as well as bombings."
"All of those warnings plus other intelligence reports of a similar nature through that period were provided in time to do something about it. It wasn't too late. The industry could have taken countermeasures and so forth. So we were on time and on target with that," the official said.
President Dunce says he had "no inkling that terrorists were about to attack our country," !
President Bush, who on Wednesday said he had had "no inkling that terrorists were about to attack our country," called the report "solid and sound" and promised to study its recommendations, many of which he described as common sense and constructive.
Okay so why wasn’t this nincompoop dragged before the commission to explain this !
The commission report included two highly secret President's Daily Brief reports, that usually only a select group of high-level government officials ever see.
One, dated Aug. 6, 2001, about a month before the Sept. 11 attacks, prepared for President Bush was titled "Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US."
The other, dated Dec. 4, 1998, to former President Bill Clinton, was titled "Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks."
This assertion here fully explains what this rubbish commission report is .
"The assertions in this report represent a triumph of theory over fact," the official said.
And once again the guilty walk free , and again CIA foreknowledge is glaringly obvious .

Brian, Republicans control all the committees.

Brian, Republicans control all the committees.
And ?????
What are you somehow saying Democrats and their policies are diametrically different from the Republicans ?
Christ you must be gullible if you believe that .

dont pretend that you know anything about politics in america, retard.

please ban brian foley.

greate Point , this shows How super smart these people are

Great point is it?
The world is overpopulated, species are dying off at a rate nobody has yet really calculated, humans are starving all over the world because there are too fucking many of them, fossils fuels are being used at a rate of knots, the planet is groaning under the weight of all this - and yet you still hold human life "greater" than everything else.

You idiots will still be crying over the value of human life after everthing else is dead and you live in a fucking one room apartment with your whole family, unable to eat anything but recycled foods.
But don't worry - you'll be dead in your grave, smiling all the way because you lived "valuing" human life - and its the generations following yours which will have to deal with your utter incompetence.

Great point, indeed. Fucking brainwashing is closer to the truth. Still - it's a little too much to expect these illiterate idiots actually think outside their warped ideals once in a while and comprehend the long-term results of their stupidity.

Great point is it?
The world is overpopulated, species are dying off at a rate nobody has yet really calculated, humans are starving all over the world because there are too fucking many of them, fossils fuels are being used at a rate of knots, the planet is groaning under the weight of all this - and yet you still hold human life "greater" than everything else.....

Thats what happens when Tax money is not used where its required

Tax Money?
Tax Money??!?!?

.... Good grief.

And once again the guilty walk free , and again CIA foreknowledge is glaringly obvious .

So your argument that the CIA are responsible is based on the fact that the CIA were criticized for not thinking of the attack earlier?

By the same token then, if you can't now predict which word I am thinking of to describe your argument, should I then assume that you have pre-existing knowledge of which word I'm going to use?

Geoff

Great point is it?
You idiots will still be crying over the value of human life after everthing else is dead and you live in a fucking one room apartment with your whole family, unable to eat anything but recycled foods.


Soylent Green is made of people.

America is being over run by fascists, and you recall what Hitler did to get the Germans angry at the British? As I recall, Hitler bombed some things which belonged to Germany, and he said that the British were to blame... sadly I don't recall the source for this bit of info.

It's circumstantial. You have no proof that the tape is real, unless you have inside info.

Jaybee.

So apparently you DON'T see how it works, and likely BF doesn't either.

Funny.

I'll spell it out for you.

It would take "inside info" to establish the credibility of the tape either way. Obviously QM's point was that BF is arguing from authority, as in he is infallable and his judgement of the tape must be accepted. We must, as BF puts it "deal with it", as in that he is obviously correct as he sees it.

That he claims others should "deal with it" is as credible as a claim to the opposite.

Der duh.

Its funny how people who vote for Bush just cant answer simple questions about WTC collapse

That's kind of a stupid thing to say, if you reflect on it for a moment... don' t you think?

It really doesn't appear that anyone in this thread is interested in discussing what really happened, but rather... they are more interested in forcing everyone to think they are smart and cool, and obviously THEY know for sure what happened and if you don't believe them you're a guv'ment stooge planting disinformation to keep the public ignorant and controlled.

Assheads.

So apparently you DON'T see how it works, and likely BF doesn't either.

Funny.

I'll spell it out for you.

It would take "inside info" to establish the credibility of the tape either way. Obviously QM's point was that BF is arguing from authority, as in he is infallable and his judgement of the tape must be accepted. We must, as BF puts it "deal with it", as in that he is obviously correct as he sees it.

That he claims others should "deal with it" is as credible as a claim to the opposite.

Der duh.

Wes, as Mr. Burns so succinctly put it when Nelson punched Martin in the stomach, thereby ending his act:

"Thankyou - next!"

Geoff

It really doesn't appear that anyone in this thread is interested in discussing what really happened, but rather... they are more interested in forcing everyone to think they are smart and cool, and obviously THEY know for sure what happened and if you don't believe them you're a guv'ment stooge planting disinformation to keep the public ignorant and controlled.

Assheads.

To answer your previous post, I've made the point I wanted to make in my thread title; HOW do we know?

We don't. The only difference here is that the spin does NOT match the likeliest reality of the situation.

If Bush can illegally wiretap your home AND get away with it, he damn well can lie about what the fuck happened on 9-11.


Jaybee.

I agree that we don't. We can only speculate. Bush is not the only one who can lie about it, and there are plenty of people more than ready to speculate wildly and claim their speculation as factual, as is evidenced in this thread.

So how do we know?

Like you said, we don't...

What is the point here then, eh?

How do we KNOW anything?

Since I'm smart and cool, and because I know that I know things, I'll unapologetically step right up to the plate again.

Here's what's true of the most common knowledge: All 9-11 hijackers were muslim fanatic revolutionaries. The WTC and Pentagon collapses were the result of their actions. 9-11 could have been prevented by American officials, but only with a functional intelligence chain. If these statements cause you confusion, I may not help you understand, because you are likely an exeedingly ignorant or sheltered person, and difficult to educate.

One lesson not being learned by the USA as a whole: We have a dysfunctional intel chain, because our decision-makers place a higher priority on their agendas than they do on realities of the rest of the world.

As in Iran in the 1970s, we have heavily vested ourselves into the Saudi mafia. We have even more heavily vested ourselves into enabling zionism. This duality is utterly incompatible with processing and reacting to events in the mideast. Personnel who are not steadfast in supporting friendly Arab monarchies and ethnicly-cleansed Israel are not listened to, even as these are the only personnel who can feel the pulse of the Arab world. Even if we had enough Arabic linguists in our intel and diplomatic services, they would all be worthless unless they could set aside allegiance to Saudi royals and zionists, for allegiance to purely American national interests.

The perpetrators of the 9-11 disaster are Arabian revolutionaries. They are not dependent on Osama Bin Laden or the original Al-Qaeda. Their goal was to upend the status quo of the mideast. They have been successful beyond their expectations. They have been spending the last 3 years or so re-configuring accordingly.

Iraq is in civil war. US troops have no leverage in a zipper-effect that is going to henceforth propagate Southward into the shia-majority (but Sunna-administered) Eastern Province and Gulf States. Translation for Americans: Lebanese Civil War + Iranian Revolution + 1973 Oil Crisis simultaneously.

Why? Some smart people have elucidated how to push the right buttons to upset the mideast applecart like we haven't seen since the Arab-Israeli wars. The only clear loser (winners still unclear) will be the United States. To the perpetrators, the victors are irrelevant- Their immediate objective is to re-shuffle the deck.

That's more than enough for those less smart and cool than me (Wes) to chew on, so let's review, from the perspective of the thread title:

How do we know OBL planned 9-11?

We don't, he may not have, and it doesn't matter because he's dead anyway. There are much bigger fish right now eating our breakfast, because most of America, including the neocons, haven't the slightest clue what we are dealing with.

Yet getting the picture is not complicated: Learn the general history of the Mideast for only the last 50 years- Learn the general present situation of the Mideast regarding political ferment and emerging markets- Cultivate some informed empathy. While holding onto that empathy, review history and current events, from the viewpoint of an average Arab.

You didn't plan 9-11, but you will dance on America's imperial grave- With millions of your brothers and sisters- With billions of Euros, and trillions of Yuan to enhance the party. Nothing to lose, everything to gain.

But this leaves Americans with everything to lose, and nothing to gain. Stay the Course: Osama's backers and successors will thank you.

Being from the Middle East myself, I agree that you have a very good point. America needs to understand the reasons why there is so much anxiety and distrust for their government in the Muslim world.

If they feel it is not going to help anyone, Americans or people from Muslim world, if the Americans engage a unilateral policy of siding completely with Israel and disregarding the sovereignty of governments who Muslims have massive support for like Iran and Palestine.

There should be a more balanced policy developed by American policy makers to deal with the Muslim world. It's almost like the US wants to control and subjugate the Middle East to maximize their profits. We see the Americans setting up bases in Central Asia, Criticizing Syria, threatening Iran, and even supporting respressive rulers in countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Uzbekistan, and Pakistan. I will tell you, if a popular revolution ever happens in one of these countries, it will spread rapidly to many Muslim nations creating chaos and rebellion. Most people in the Middle East are unsatisfied with their rulers, especially those rulers who support Americas presence in the region.

I hope we all come to common terms before another world war is started.

Peace.

"I will tell you, if a popular revolution ever happens in one of these countries, it will spread rapidly to many Muslim nations creating chaos and rebellion."

It's happening right now in Iraq: A rebellion against overt American imperialist behavior, that will inevitably cascade (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=17938).

That's kind of a stupid thing to say, if you reflect on it for a moment... don' t you think? So U think there are no air Pilot training schools in Muslims world ?

or shall we say Pilot Training Programs, such as

"Tactical Ground Attack:
Missions 1-17, Desert Sword -> Desert Shield"

And let's not forget OPERATION PROVIDE MOTIVE

It really doesn't appear that anyone in this thread is interested in discussing what really happened, but rather...

America needs to understand the reasons why there is so much anxiety and distrust for their government in the Muslim world.

Let these two quotes rule the rest of this thread - maybe we'll get someplace. As many eggheads {smart folk} there are in this forum, seems this would have been worked out by now.

What really happened...

If it's concluded that this was the work of a guy in a cave - then why so much distrust of America in the Muslim world - in the world in general?

Most Ameircans dont give a fuck about your trust. You cant trust a people who still think justice is cuttting someones head off and shouting God is great while doin it.
Or strapping bombs to oneself and walking in a market filled with women and children.
So fuck your trust buddy. You guys can preach all you want about G.W. being Hitler...America is this and that. Remember one thing "brother" Amerians voted G.W. back into office for a reason. You can come to this site and see America at its worse..freaks from Utah and everywhere else saying America is evil blah blah blah... but never forget these people are the minority in America.
Trust the power and might of America - this you can trust.

Trust the power and might of America - this you can trust.

You can't even provide favourable living conditions for your own population.

Being from the Middle East myself, I agree that you have a very good point. America needs to understand the reasons why there is so much anxiety and distrust for their government in the Muslim world.

If they feel it is not going to help anyone, Americans or people from Muslim world, if the Americans engage a unilateral policy of siding completely with Israel and disregarding the sovereignty of governments who Muslims have massive support for like Iran and Palestine.

There should be a more balanced policy developed by American policy makers to deal with the Muslim world. It's almost like the US wants to control and subjugate the Middle East to maximize their profits. We see the Americans setting up bases in Central Asia, Criticizing Syria, threatening Iran, and even supporting respressive rulers in countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Uzbekistan, and Pakistan. I will tell you, if a popular revolution ever happens in one of these countries, it will spread rapidly to many Muslim nations creating chaos and rebellion. Most people in the Middle East are unsatisfied with their rulers, especially those rulers who support Americas presence in the region.

I hope we all come to common terms before another world war is started.

Peace.

"Being from the Middle East myself"

You said you were a paki, now your a arab?

Pakistan is in asia, not the middle east, or maybe you should tell india there in the middle east too?



"Americans setting up bases in Central Asia"

What bases you lunar base, japan, south korea they have been there for decades, afghanistan, they are there because bin lid is honeymooning in your country paki-land.





"America
supporting respressive rulers in countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey,"

You meen moderate countries, where terroists are fed at the zoo, what you think they should become like syria, and iran, and pakistan, lawless & bombs going off 24 hours of the day.

Funny i thought jordan had a king, a arab king not a american one, do you know anything about royalty, they tend to rule until they are overthrown, like the americans did to the brits, and rightly so.

Dont blame america for prince's & kings in the middle east, next you will be blaming america for the pharoah's reign in egypt, if america was born then.

I live in thailand its supposed to be in asia, but you seem to be quite a expert on geography, could it be in the middle east like you say pakistan is, & is america in europe or the north pole..........

Most Ameircans dont give a fuck about your trust.

Please, speak for yourself.

You can't even provide favourable living conditions for your own population.

LOL Monkeydick

Hey whatever you hear is true ok. We're not the richest country on the face of the earth. We have fat poor people. LOL - Hey but whatever brother.

Please, speak for yourself.

Im talking adults here . ok

LOL Monkeydick

Hey whatever you hear is true ok. We're not the richest country on the face of the earth. We have fat poor people. LOL - Hey but whatever brother.

Actually, we do. Lots of fat, poor people. In fact, studies show that children growing up in poor households have a higher tendency to become overweight.

Im talking adults here . ok

Well, your punctuation and spelling resemble that of a 5th grade school paper, so I guess you're excluding yourself as well?

FYI, I'm 19-years-old. Old enough to vote, old enough to smoke, old enough to kill people in a war, and old enough to own a firearm. I guess that makes me an adult, doesn't it? Yeehaw! ;)

FYI, I'm 19-years-old. Old enough to vote, old enough to smoke, old enough to kill people in a war, and old enough to own a firearm. I guess that makes me an adult, doesn't it? Yeehaw!

*waves a beer around while leaning up against a rental car parked outside of a Las Vegas casino*

:D

- N

And to think that all the oil will be gone in 50 years and no one will give a rats ass about the Middle East.

"Being from the Middle East myself"

You said you were a paki, now your a arab?

Pakistan is in asia, not the middle east, or maybe you should tell india there in the middle east too?



"Americans setting up bases in Central Asia"

What bases you lunar base, japan, south korea they have been there for decades, afghanistan, they are there because bin lid is honeymooning in your country paki-land.





"America
supporting respressive rulers in countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey,"

You meen moderate countries, where terroists are fed at the zoo, what you think they should become like syria, and iran, and pakistan, lawless & bombs going off 24 hours of the day.

Funny i thought jordan had a king, a arab king not a american one, do you know anything about royalty, they tend to rule until they are overthrown, like the americans did to the brits, and rightly so.

Dont blame america for prince's & kings in the middle east, next you will be blaming america for the pharoah's reign in egypt, if america was born then.

I live in thailand its supposed to be in asia, but you seem to be quite a expert on geography, could it be in the middle east like you say pakistan is, & is america in europe or the north pole..........


Why don't you go 'paki' someone else? This isn't a bash Pakistan or racism thread, its a thread on 9/11.

What is the status of the U.S. military bases in Central Asia?

The United States maintains two bases in Central Asia, one each in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, for its postwar operations in Afghanistan. A regional group led by Russia and China has pressured the United States to remove its forces from Central Asia. U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, in response to recent political tension over the issue with leaders in both Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, traveled to Central Asia July 25 to discuss the U.S. military's arrangements in the region. The United States says the bases are necessary for its efforts in Afghanistan and claims it does not intend to have a permanent presence in the region.

Where are the bases?

Karshi-Khanabad Air Base is located in southern Uzbekistan not far from Tajikistan; Manas Air Base is situated just north of Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. The United States began leasing both Soviet-era bases during the run-up to the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. They are used primarily to station soldiers, refueling jets, and cargo planes. Each airfield houses roughly 1,000 U.S. troops and civilian contractors.

http://www.nytimes.com/cfr/international/slot2_072605.html

Peace.

And to think that all the oil will be gone in 50 years and no one will give a rats ass about the Middle East.

Good, so I suggest the West start packing early because the West will be kicked out before 50 years.

Peace.