Prior to 9-11 Donald Rumsfeld gave an order that no military action to counter an invasion of the US could proceed without his personal approval.
No scrambling of jets etc.

On 9-11 Rumsfeld proceeded to do nothing and mobilize no counter offensive.
The possible action taken against the PA hijacked plane is unclear but they claim there was none.
If even one voice recorder on any of those planes had worked we would certainly know more.

Here is part of the order that Rumsfeld made that made all prior defense responses impossible without his say. This order that over rides 20 years of preparedness allowed inaction for hours until Rumsfeld felt like doing something.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/d302515_021897/d302515p....


more:

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/norad/docs/intercept_proc....


Why would he weaken the defense of the nation in such a way?

Why did he then decide to take little or no action claiming to the commission "we could not imagine such a thing was happening" ?

Rumsfeld's testimony has already been given with little or no media fanfare or reaction of any kind. I may have missed it but I do not recall the 9-11 commission mentioning of these orders by Rumsfeld that tied the hands of a military response to invasion without his personal say.

Will the current 9-11 commission go back and touch upon these special orders of Rumsfeld with any criticism at all. So far it is shaping up as a Warren report. Of course Bush did not give the commission subpoena power to force testimony but leaving out such an important restructuring of the entire military response strategy by one man Donald Rumsfeld who then did not give the order to defend ourselves for 2 hours seems to me a glaring mistake.

I know that corporate owned media will simply say conspiracy theory whenever someone gets dangerously close to the truth. To hear NBC tell it, this country has never had a political assasination. Everyting is always a lone crazed gunman or tragic accident.

My skepticism regarding the 9-11 commision is of course premature since they have a long way to go. I do worry that like the Warren Commission they will publish a 10,000 page unreadable document that will also point to an improbable conclusion. Will it simply be another cover up?

The public conclusions they have given thus far is only to say that equal blame is to be laid at the feet of William Jefferson Clinton.

I really hope your not accusing the US of bombing itself. What kind of a world do you live in? Do you feel safe at night?

are you at all paranoid?

"If even one voice recorder on any of those planes had worked we would certainly know more"
No, it would also require open government. Of course several CVRs and FDRs (http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/flightdata.html) preserved a great deal of useful data. The public is not authorized to know that information.

I've seen no reason to question the US Gov't response to 9-11 as it was unfolding. There were not contingencies for taking down US airliners in US airspace. This is reserved, apparently for Iranian airliners.

There is much reason to question why, or if, several warnings prior to 9-11 pointing to a potential attack on washington targets using airliners were purportedly not promulgated to top leadership.

The subject I am speaking about is that prior to 9-11 Rumsfeld revamped all the rules pertaining to the US responding to an invasion.

I even gave you the orders to look at.

It required that only he could give the order to defend ourselves.

It certainly was a diasterous order. Why is it still in effect?

Why was Rumsfeld not fired?

Bush publicly bragged that a shadow goverment is in place to insure the smooth progression of goverment with or without Washington.

Will the commission question this shadow goverment?

These are for more valid questions than the infantile question pertaining to paranoia.

Here is how it is fixed

http://antiwar.com/sperry/?articleid=2209

My skepticism regarding the 9-11 commision is of course premature since they have a long way to go. I do worry that like the Warren Commission they will publish a 10,000 page unreadable document that will also point to an improbable conclusion. Will it simply be another cover up?




Paranoia,

and you call me infantile? :bugeye:

i went to a Muslim unity thing at my campus, which was titled "Islamophobia".

the 2 speakers, instead of talking about hate crimes and how Muslims can deal and cope with them, talked about the Mossad and its involvement in 9-11, and how the Zionists are responsible and how they framed the Muslims

the 2nd one gave a whole elaborate explanation

the Mossad and CIA infiltrated al-Qaeda, and comandeered the whole plan from Afghanistan. (the reasoning is that if they can infiltrate Communist parties, they can infiltrate Muslim groups... that it was very easy for a 20 year old John Walker Lindh, and so a trained spy could do it too)

but in another segment of his speech he said "the Muslims have been victims of US opression, US aggression, US violence, US colonialization, etc. etc., and now they are fighting for Self Determination. the US shouldn't be surprised that things are blowing up"

so i'm just wondering, is it a Zionist Mossad/CIA conspiracy, or is it Muslims fighting for "Self Determination"?

what the heck is Mossad?

the Israeli spy agency (equivalent of CIA)

I don't think there is a conspiracy at all, usually the truth is alot more boring than we like to think...even though the truth is quite spectacular in this instince. No need to make it seem worse, i think it's a bunch of middle east weirdo's who are pissed off that they don't have control of the world, so they are using and abusing an ancient religion in order to try and make the whole world suffer.

Seriously, the quality of life in western countries HAS gone down since the attacks. I honestly felt a bit safer before the attacks. I never even thought of terrorism.

Screw Osama Bin Laden and anyone who supports him...

This thread is a lolocaust of speculative information and tinfoil.

What does Rummy's order have to do with 9-11?? Rummy is talking about an INVASION of the US not some plane crashing into a building. Get a clue people. If you stopped looking so hard you would realize that nothing is there.......

anitwar.com is: " We strive to lead the non-interventionist cause and the peace movements that many respected institutions have forgotten."
The key term being non-interventionist, ie isolationist. The same type of thought that allowed HITLER to come to power.
Disgusting.

anitwar.com is: " We strive to lead the non-interventionist cause and the peace movements that many respected institutions have forgotten."
The key term being non-interventionist, ie isolationist. The same type of thought that allowed HITLER to come to power.
Disgusting.
With a domain named "antiwar.com" you don't have to look very hard to know their agenda. But I do applaud them for their honesty. Dozens of other activist groups cloak their agenda in the guise of "science" and what not.

I really hope your not accusing the US of bombing itself. What kind of a world do you live in? Do you feel safe at night?

are you at all paranoid?
this comming from someone with a MICHEL JACKSON avatar....., honestly the guy is a freak, havnt you seen the video clips of him outside the news media...

anyways. ive heard that theory of the US bombing itself, reallys its not too far fetched...



honestly. poeple hate the US of A for SO MANY REASONS.......
make it seem like weaker societys hate you, so they fight back and "kick ass"
how else will you controll the ecomony and poeple without a little destuction and meyham....

american government..... it will end the world poeple....


woah whats this topic about again?.........


bush jr. for example...he is controled byb his father and polictal leaders... like he actully make any dission on his own....


bush jr is a god damn puppet, and so will every american present be, from here on.

so much coruption so little time

A conspiracy theory I find more plausible is that Saudi Arabia was heavily involved in the attacks, what with the fact that nearly all of the hijackers were Saudi's (None were Iraqis BTW) Osama bin Laden himself is a Saudi, and his family is in high standing with Saudi Arabia. This makes Bushes protection of Saudi Arabia, and his financial ties to the House of Saud, the Saudi roal family, seem very suspicious.

I think you're on the right track 'Moose, but could have further clarified one point:

"Osama bin Laden himself is a Saudi, and his family is in high standing with Saudi Arabia."

Osama was a revolutionary with the central objective of overthrowing the Saudi monarchy, and his legacy organizations have many friends in Arabia. His family ties were prominent, but this is not the only reason public information about Arabian Al-Qaeda is extremely tightly controlled The Saudi mafia wishes for all issues regarding Arabian dissent and revolutions be handled "In House", so to speak. The arrangement between the Bush Administration and Sa'ud family is that these problems will be kept quiet, that America's "War on Terror" shall not penetrate the borders of Saudi Arabia, and Saudis who might otherwise be subject to investigation outside the Kingdom will be quietly transported to Saudi Arabia courtesy of Uncle Sam.

This is the standard package that has well served many oppressive regimes in the past who have made private deals with Washington: We won't expose their dirty laundry to the world, and they won't expose ours.

I really hope your not accusing the US of bombing itself. What kind of a world do you live in? Do you feel safe at night?

are you at all paranoid?

I really hope you read the following message about "operation Northwoods" then give such a comment. What kind of organization you work for? D.o.D. or D.o.J.?

Operation Northwoods
Our U.S. Government Planned To Attack
"We The People"

"We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington," said one document reportedly prepared by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," the document says. "Casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of indignation."

http://www.retakingamerica.com/northwoods_page_1.html

USA Today - Bush wrong to use pretext as excuse to invade Iraq <http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2002-08-29-usat-opin-bamford_x.htm> "The answer was Operation Northwoods "

ABC News - Friendly Fire Book: U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba <http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html>"America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties "

"We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba,"

Eeer Sorry, it wouldnt work. We already used that tactic to invade Cuba in the First Place. Remember the Maine! Come now people.......

http://www.mainepbs.org/ussmaine/ussmaineinfo.html

"An the U.S. military leaders proposed in 1962....."

Wow, propesed in 1962 and we still havnt done it! That damn government red tape. Dont worry though, soon it will happen :D

"We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," the document says. "Casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of indignation"

And the document then goes on to say they could hold funerals for the mock victims.

Some of the wording in the document makes you wonder about the authenticity of said document. In one paragraph it mentions faking the shooting down of an airliner, that would be allegedly be carrying a group of college students flying to somewhere in Caribbean, presumably going "off on holiday." How many Americans on here refer to taking a vacation as going 'off on holiday'? That's not American vernacular.

No no no Spyke!

That is nothing more that Rumsfield sponsered MisInformation! In fact recent documents will show that the CIA got the Governator Elected in order to secure California's support of a Cuban Invasion! *DUH!*