Does Everyone Have it?(what I first thought to title the thread) I am asking to solve a problem in this thread. It is a problem that plagues me and crosses my mind to this day. I am asking for “help” ok with this problem that I have... you see, don’t jump right there. It isn’t like all of my other threads and words. I do humbly believe that everyone has it, yet perhaps (one of the many possibilities...) I have it strongly? Who does know! What is this I describe? This that I have within myself, that I ask do you have it too? What the hell is it then?! The existentialists state that there is “no reality except for in action” right. I personally like/dislike this whole idea. I believe the quoted is false. There isn’t “only reality except in action”, and if there is it leaves out all aspects of the self which are other-wise. The aspect I ask you to help me try to define, is a statement within action surely, isn’t a human being just action.... I have been wondering for a good while now what exactly this is I am asking for. Yet for every reason it keeps appearing as a question I want desperately to figure out and ask you all to help me see what it is. I am asking you about this question and to help me, right “know myself” ok. It is simple. Help me with the clarity. Here is an example/case: Outside talking with my mom and helping her with her plantvilla,... I tell ya... I will be expressing the new happiness that I have gained from further understandings(etc). I will talk with her, and picture what sartre is saying about how I am wrong, self - deception etc. I picture that I am wrong. Or something. I picture that my actions are or should be, right---more like sartre’s everythings ok, talking like he does in his short stories, and everything in action being “correct”, when really.... So these things run through my mind like there is no race. There is no final stopping point. Heh what am I saying?! I am saying that I believe every has this aspect within them and it is the same thing. Sartre surely is wrong about a number of things, though he should be well admired beyond everybody’s reasons. Period. The aspect I have within myself, I believe my “personal problem” to perhaps be taking it to the extreme. Would anybody like to help clarify what I am talking about? Here is my theory of it. It is a single, pin-pointable aspect that I would like to understand what the aspect is... what “it” is I mean.... The point of it being if there is an understanding of it then I as well as who-ever else can come to an understanding about what this part of themselves is. Though this does seem to jump the hill/ ledge. Any questions? I don’t believe I have put forth the full explanation, but one which I hope does the job. Thanks, -eb [being afraid of action. Being the talkin dude i am who .. Is afraid of action? What aspect is it is there hope to finding it’s explanation?]
I do see that perhaps my mental health problem that once it is fixed, that this issue will fade away and seem stupid or less relevent. I see that when I am "not afraid of action", say--right--that this issue will maybe dis-appear? I think that everyone has this issue, I wish I could understand what it is! Maybe when I go back into action it will be the same thing? I am so confused, I hope you aren't as well!
Hell everyone has a personal adventure. A life. I would like to talk about this here in this thread, at heart stuff... I don't know if there is an issue in my personal adventure that would go aganist yours, say, but I think that the issue I try to describe is a part of my adventure as well as yours?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I am gonna work on trying to find out what it is I am talking about.
I like the psychologists... But I do not understand what they experience. I do know they go through a personal adventure, and it is hell. This is just human nature bla! But one aspect remains un-understood.
Brent, from what I have read and what we have talked about in other threads, the problem is : You don't know what the problem is. But you know you have a problem. And this is essentially what the problem is: You know you have a problem but you don't know what the problem is..... but slowly the problem is being solved, this problem you don't understand, and eventually it will not be a problem even though you never understood what the problem was in the first place. And that is all I can say about what I know of your problem, for I too am not able to put it into words that will make sense to you or any one else.
Dude, you just said a lot of words. And they don't mean anything. I don't even know what you're... ... alright, I didn't actually read the whole thing.
Oh hell I know what the problem is qq. It is that I am egotistical, all this other crap, i can't quit thinking on these lines, and I don't know what the hell it is like to be normal. But to the very extent of couse your right.
Just some thoughts..... From what I have seen Brent you can not solve the problem directly as it can only be solved by default. You solve the problems that have an impact on the key problem and slowly the key problem will resolve but only as a default of work in other areas. You can not directly solve the problem because it is the problem that is doing the solving. A bit like a mirror looking at it self with out another mirror. So you work with what you see reflected and not directly with the reflector or source of the reflection. A dog chasing it's tail is a good analogy. any way just thinking..... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Sorry if that sounds a bit scrambled......
You're basically trying to ascertain why you are not normal when in actual practice there is no such thing as normality in the first place - only what is usual - in essence, you remain proof that you are as normal you can possibly be. Fretting about your normality remains the usual state of affairs for yourself. You not fretting about that, for you, would be abnormal. Consequently, for Brent, you are being perfectly normal. Now, if you were somebody else, maybe, possibly that might not remain true. However, that would be someone else problem not yours. Basically, one can only be oneself. And you very definitely are. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
if you're a mercenary bastard, you damn sure are a good one. If i continue to figure out "why" am I not normal... surely there must be some problem: I am not normal. What is usual isn't usual for me... Exactly. Simply that I want to know. I simply must know. There is no alternative. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I've got to. If I don't, maybe i'll turn out to be this crazy guy. But, as u know I'm already this crazy guy. U know: running around being crazy. Wanting to quit fretting. Etc to the end. Maybe one day,huh? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Brent
Existabrent There is something that can help you with your problems, I will find the book link that explains how meanwhile it is 'EPA'. It has been found to improve depression in shitzophrenics and CURE it it in derpessives. EPA is 100% natural, not big pharmaceutical con. Its' found in fish oil. You may need 2000mg a day for three months. It makes changes in the brain, something thought impossible in the adult brain until this was tested! I'll find some helpful links, you have nothing to lose by trying this and everything to gain, its 100% natural and good for other things too, so why not give it a whirl. Links shortly. ps, you may think you don't have depression, but the way you think reminds me of severe anxiety states where pattern involves invasive and disturbing thoughts that you can't push out of your head. It is reversible!
http://www.epa1.co.uk/http://www.epa1.co.uk/ http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340824972/202-7416657-3183847 copied from web: Essential Fatty Acids and Mental Health In June 2005 the British Journal of Psychiatrists pubished an article that concluded: "There is good evidence that psychiatric illness associated with depletion of EFAs and crucially, that supplementation can result in clinical amerlioration. As well as challenging traditional views of aetiology and therapeutics in psychiatry, the clinical trial data may herald a simple, safe and effective adjunct to our standard treatments for many disabling conditions" Research has linked essential fatty acid (EFA) deficiencies with a wide range of psychiatric disorders including depression, anxiety, CFS/ME, biopolar disorder, alzheimers and schizophrenia. Modern diets often lack the key EFA omega-3s EPA and DHA, which are only found in fish and seafood. EPA, or eicosapentaenoic acid, is one of the long chain omega-3 polyunsaturates found mainly in fish oil. Research shows that EPA is more important than DHA for brain function (and for combating inflammation and improving blood flow), so high-EPA fish oils are now popular.
copied from web and edited : re the book I reccomended: "Can fish oil help to beat depression? By Dr Basant Puri When conventional treatment failed, EPA was prescribed alongside medication. The result could mark a medical breakthrough ........"The treatment was eicosapentaenoic acid, or EPA, which is a derivative of a naturally occurring essential fatty acid (EFA). The richest source of this omega-3 fatty acid is oily fish, including salmon, tuna (not tinned), mackerel, pilchards and sardines. But what I had in mind was a highly purified form of EPA, which could deliver a higher dose than you would get from eating oily fish. " "........My belief that EPA might help Anthony was based in part on a large trial of patients with schizophrenia that had recently taken place (prompted by research done more than 25 years ago by Professor David Horrobin). I was one of the doctors running the trial and several of my patients had taken part. Three-quarters of the patients had been given EPA in varying doses, while the others were given a placebo. It was a double-blind trial, meaning that neither the doctor administering the treatment nor the patient receiving it knew who was being given EPA, and who the placebo. " "............Patients suffering from schizophrenia are often depressed, and one of the most striking things I had noticed in the study was that the symptoms of depression cleared in many of the patients taking EPA. "
copied from web http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap5/chap5t.htm TREATMENT OF SPECIFIC ANXIETY-BASED PROBLEMS Obsessions and compulsions About 2.4 million Americans are compelled to repeat useless and distressing rituals, like hand washing, counting or lock checking, or thoughts, like "I am going to die soon." The excessive, senseless, uncontrollable behaviors are compulsions; the excessive, useless, invasive thoughts are obsessions (worries, focus on your looks, attraction to pornography, etc.). If the person tries hard to block these acts or thoughts from happening, he/she will become very anxious, often feeling as though something awful will happen. Compulsions and obsessions seem to be both a result of anxiety and a means of briefly reducing anxiety. These acts appear to start with magical thinking, namely, the wishful idea that an action or thought by them will reduce some risk or some unpleasant feeling. For instance, Howard Hughes, the famous billionaire aircraft designer and movie producer, became afraid of touching things because of possible contamination. So, being afraid of germs, he became compulsively clean. Eventually, he avoided almost everything, staying locked in his apartment for many years. Even his eating utensils were eventually sterilized, the handles wrapped in tissue, then wrapped with tape, and finally wrapped with tissue paper again before he would touch them. What is truly amazing is that he--with all his smarts and money--didn't get treatment. Shame and hiding the problem are parts of the illness. If I believe the initial-but-wrong ideas, e.g. that a little dirt is dangerous and that washing my hands can save me from some dreaded disease, then washing my hands reduces my fear. Even though the compulsive person knows, when he/she thinks about it, that it is a foolish idea, he/she keeps on washing his/her hands (or checking the locks) because he/she temporarily feels better. Due to this negative reinforcement, the behavior grows stronger and stronger. One compulsive hand washer, reported by Hodgson and Miller (1982), was originally afraid of catching her brother's schizophrenia. She started washing her hands after being near the brother, but the compulsion spread (generalized) to many objects around the house so that years later she was washing her hands several hours a day. She knew the washing was irrational but felt relief and couldn't stop. First, there is a repeated scary thought--an obsession--and, then, a ritual--a compulsion--is used over and over to reduce the fear; thus, it is different from a bad habit, like nail biting, which is not motivated by great fear. Freudians see these symptoms differently; they believe compulsions and obsessions have an underlying driving force which is unconscious. Example: if a highly moral person were in a very unhappy marriage, a primitive, angry part of him/her (the id or the "child") may want to do away with the partner. Of course, being a good person overall, the person is not about to kill the spouse. Instead, the aggression is turned inward, with the unconscious logic going like this: "My spouse is in danger of being killed. I am the murderer; therefore, I must die." The result of this internal struggle is a frightening, uncontrollable obsession--a conscious inner voice--that says over and over "I am going to die soon." But the tormented person doesn't know anything about the internal struggle between good and evil. Yet, he/she might be able to reason it out or guess at the cause (or go for therapy). If the troubled person could grasp some of the moral war inside, he/she might be motivated and able, using the adult's rational mind, to resolve some of the child-like anger and, thus, stop the obsession. The word "compulsive" is also used to describe normal-but-unusual behavior, such as keeping your desk or drawers very clean and orderly, dressing meticulously, doing extremely precise work, etc. Many of these traits are valuable and contribute to success and self-esteem; they are not a disorder, although some become unpleasantly compelling and a waste of time. On the other hand, obsessive-compulsive disorders are very disruptive of living, and people are ashamed of these habits. The most common compulsive rituals are hand washing (2+ hours per day), counting things repeatedly, checking (that the lights are out or the doors locked several times), and touching (e.g. pulling one's hair or rubbing one's mouth). Any excessive, time-consuming activity can become a serious compulsion, such as taking an hour to brush your teeth, three hours to groom yourself, three hours every day to clean a small apartment, or suffer intense anxiety if everything is not kept in order. Excessive, time-consuming obsessions may raise anxiety (thinking "a serious accident will happen") or may reduce anxiety (praying for hours every day or reading labels on every box and can in the house every day) by distracting the mind from disturbing thoughts. Thus far, science doesn't understand this disorder well, but the treatment is becoming clearer. Women are more inclined to be compulsive cleaners (starting age=29 vs. men at 22). Checkers start earlier (men at 14 and women at 21). Men are more obsessional than women. Obsessions start later (men at 26 and women at 30). Like so many other anxiety disorders, there seems to be a genetic factor involved. The PET scans of these patients are different. Even more of a concern is that 35% of obsessive-compulsive disorders are also diagnosed schizotypal personality disorder, and when a person has both diagnoses, the treatment success rate is rather low. Treatment for obsessive-compulsives (and worriers): refer to Foa and Wilson (1991) for a simple, detailed, research based, thorough self-help plan. I'll summarize their suggestions: (1) Consider carefully (measure!) how serious your worries, obsessive fears, and compulsions are. (2) Use your rational thinking (and the research findings available) to realize that your fears and rituals are totally unrealistic, that there are better ways to handle the fears, and that you, like thousands of other people, can overcome this problem. You need to become determined to conquer your false beliefs; it won't be easy; however, paradoxically, as we have already seen with certain fears, accepting reality and not constantly "fighting against" the obsessions and rituals are big steps. (3) The idea is to get your worries and obsessive fears under your control by: (a) just delaying your worrying for a short while, (b) responding to the obsession differently (e.g. say it's OK and record every detail of the obsession, or make up a song about the obsession and sing it, rather than imagining you are dying, or think of your doctor saying you are perfectly healthy). (4) Practice stopping the obsessional worries or fears and getting back to your regular activities: (a) use self-instruction, self-praise, and relaxation to shift your attention back to a constructive task, (b) postpone your worries until two 15-minute "worry sessions" every day (don't resist worrying during the designated times, in fact insist on filling the 15 minutes with very disturbing worries, try to get upset, but stop exactly on time), (c) record your common worries on a 3-minute loop audiotape and listen to them over and over for 45 minutes a day, try to get distressed, (d) record on audiotape a 45 minute horror story describing all the terrible things you fear might happen (if you fear death, imagine dying a horrible death), listen to it every day and become upset (eventually it looses its punch), and/or (e) face the frightening situation directly (hand washers get their hands dirty and don't wash, cleaners refuse to clean anything for a day, hoarders can let someone else throw the junk away, worriers try out some solution, etc.). In short, you take charge, rather than the fear running your life. "Imaginal flooding" and cue exposure are being used on fears here, i.e. imagining all the awful consequences that the person thinks (wrongly) might occur if the rituals were not performed (see Exposure, Venting, and Toughness). (5) Rituals may provide the only relief a compulsive person ever gets from his/her terror. Thus, a powerful need to ritualize can develop in serious cases. Actually, the ritual becomes the person's "proof" that he/she must avoid the feared situation and that the ritual saves him/her from the feared disaster and/or from going crazy. Example: "My house didn't burn today because I checked everything seven times this morning." You can weaken your compulsion by breaking up the habit: (a) when the urge strikes, postpone performing the ritual as long as you can (maybe a minute or hours, the longer the better), (b) perform the ritual in slow motion, (c) repeatedly change the way you do the ritual, (d) add some activity to the ritual, e.g. add a 30 minute jog every time you perform the ritual. All this practice at control may make you confident and determined to "tough it out" and just decide not to do the ritual. If so, go for it! Other researchers have found that some compulsions can be brought under control by "negative practice," i.e. consciously "willing" the compulsion, say checking all the doors and windows, to be repeated again and again, so that it is not always occurring against your will. (6) Eventually, you have to repeatedly expose yourself to the frightening situation (public toilet seats, dirt on the floor, leaving the house uncleaned, etc.). And, you must prevent yourself from using any ritual for "protection," such as checking the locks more than once. You are extinguishing both the fear and the ritual behavior (Hodgson & Miller, 1982; Millman, Huber, & Diggins, 1982). Exposure may at first be easiest by using fantasy, as in 4 (d), i.e. imagining being in the situation that scares you. Do this for an hour or two every day until the fear diminishes. Then, expose yourself to the actual frightening situation (it may be wise to have a friend or therapist with you when you do this). This exposure (e.g. to dirt or urine) will result in a strong urge to perform the ritual (e.g. wash hands), but the ritual (e.g. washing for 30 minutes) must be prevented so you can learn that the ritual is unneeded. Finally, after several hours of exposure and response prevention each day for several days, the unreasonable fears are extinguished and the compulsive rituals are no longer needed. The compulsion is, of course, replaced with a more reasonable and useful response, e.g. washing off the urine in a minute or two perhaps (be sure the total washing time doesn't increase to two or three minutes). These behavioral "exposure and response prevention" methods work about 75-80% of the time. Both exposure and response prevention are necessary. Exposure reduces the fears; response prevention stops the compulsions. Gradual exposure works as well as flooding (creating intense fear), so why traumatize yourself? Self-treatment, if you are able to do it, in the natural environment works well, sometimes better than with a therapist present. Exposures for longer times (without the compulsion) works better than short exposures. Exposures do not have to be frequent, two or three times a week may work. The effects seem to last best if "relapse prevention" procedures (see method #4 in chapter 11) are used following the "exposure" procedures (Hiss, Foa & Kozak, 1994). Since thinking is so obviously involved in compulsions and especially obsessions, the cognitive therapists have sought to treat these disorders by correcting the thinking directly (instead of indirectly by simple exposure). Oppen and Arntz (1993) point out that obsessions are often about awful future events for which you feel responsible. Thus, they are like depressive thoughts, except in the future. Therefore, cognitive therapists attack the obsessive-compulsive's overestimation of the danger and of their responsibility for the awful consequences. Suppose a fire-phobic person repeatedly snuffs out his/her cigarettes and checks the ash trays, but still obsesses about the danger of burning down the house with a cigarette. A cognitive therapist would have this person calculate the probability of each step necessary for the catastrophic fire to happen: 1 chance in 100 that the cigarette will not be snuffed out, 1 chance in 100 that ashes will be knocked on the floor, 1 chance in 10 that the carpet would burn (this could be tested out with a scrap of carpeting), 1 change in 100 that neither I nor the smoke alarm nor anyone else will notice the fire, and 1 chance in 100 that no one will be able to put out the fire. Multiplying all these probabilities together shows that there is 1 chance in 1,000,000,000 cigarettes that the house will burn. So, the person's thinking and feeling that every cigarette is a big fire threat can be challenged. The awful part of many things that obsess or worry us is the feeling that some terrible outcome will be our fault. Oppen and Arntz recommend using the "pie-technique." Example: like many drivers, I have often thought how terrible it would be if I hit a child darting out from between cars (and, Oh, God, it would truly be horrible). But a concern is--it would be even worse if I overestimated my responsibility for the accident. The pie-technique has you assign a portion of the pie to each cause, starting with the person responsible for watching the child (40%), the people who had not taught the child about the dangers (20%), the child him/herself (0-20% depending on age), the weather and lighting conditions (10%), the decision-makers and drivers who permitted and parked there (5%), chance or bad luck (20%), etc. At the end, I have to decide how much of the remaining percentage I would be responsible for. Thus, we can see that we may not be "responsible" at all and certainly aren't totally responsible (of course, if we were speeding, distracted, drunk, or carelessly jumped the curb, that is a different matter). Another approach to questioning the overestimation of responsibility is the "double standard" technique. You simply ask yourself if you would hold another person responsible if the same thing happened to them as happened to you. Examples: if your son got cancer, would you blame another mother/father whose son got cancer? If your daughter became schizophrenic, would you blame the parents of another girl who became schizophrenic? If not, by what logic are you more responsible than others? As you can see, these techniques are simple methods for straightening out our own thinking. See chapter 14. You can often test out the reality or validity of your beliefs. Helpful material See chapter 4's discussion of unwanted behaviors and method #8 in chapter 11. The best, most complete, most detailed self-help guide to various Obsessive-Compulsive Disorders is by Penzel (2000). It is helpful to patients, their families and even professionals. Mental Health professionals rated Levenkron's (1991) self-help book highly, but, being an insight therapist, his approach assumes that obsessions or compulsions stem from a painful childhood or poor genes. One self-help book focuses only on compulsive shopping (Catalano & Sonenberg, 1993). Other self-help references are Lakin (1993), Rapaport (1989), and Steketee & White (1990). A cognitive self-help approach is provided by Schwartz (1996), who urges the patient to view his/her obsessive-compulsive symptoms as being a medical condition in which the brain is sending a false message ("something terrible will happen if you don't wash your hands again"), then the patient is urged to do and think about other things (not the O-C actions), and to take pride in gaining self-control. An excellent professional reference is Beck & Emery (1985) but it is not self-help. Also, write to The OCD Foundation, P. O. Box 9573, New Haven, CT 06535 for information and for self-help groups. The Obsessive-Compulsive Foundation provides research, newsletters, book reviews, and chat. Another good site is OCD Website. Another is OCD Resource Center giving some advice to both the patient and the family. Also advertises The OCD Workbook. An outstanding summary of symptoms and treatment, both psychological and medical, is given by Expert Consensus Treatment Guidelines. Several interesting articles are available at Mental Help Net: OCD and a self-quiz at Psych Central OCD Quiz. If obsessive thoughts are triggered by specific emotions, e.g. getting mad at your ex-lover sets off 2 or 3 hours of thinking about the past, what he/she is doing now, and how to mess up his/her life, you might reduce the emotional response (via desensitization) and, thereby, reduce the obsessions. Or, you might use thought-stopping, which is a mental form of response prevention. Ironically, the research shows that trying hard to suppress forbidden thoughts sometimes results in thinking the thought even more often (Wegner, 1989). How to best handle bad thoughts? Baer (2001) specializes with inappropriate, embarrassing, crude, violent thoughts. He reviews a long history of such thoughts and deals with the dilemma of "conscious thought suppression" producing more thoughts, not less. Using the example of a priest who lears at women's breasts and bottoms, while thinking about sex with them, Baer recommends dealing with such guilt-producing thoughts much like one would deal with a fear, namely, let yourself freely have those thoughts (expose yourself to them) until they no longer seem so awful or evil that they must be stopped. Other advisors would recommend disclosing your bad thoughts to a safe, understanding person, like a therapist. Coming to see the obsessive thoughts as "no big deal" in this way also seems to reduce the drive to have them so frequently. Not surprisingly, general psychotherapy--talking about bad thoughts--has been helpful in gaining insight into the "forbidden wishes" and unconscious dynamics that seem to be frequently involved in obsessions and compulsions. On the other hand, drugs, including Anafranil and Prozac, have also helped some obsessive-compulsive cases, causing some doctors to think it is an organic disorder. The latest twist in this organic vs. psychological argument is the finding by Schwartz (1995) that cognitive-behavioral treatment results in similar changes in the brain as drugs produce. Self-help can be helpful if started soon enough, but in difficult to treat, long-term, serious obsessive-compulsive cases with multiple diagnoses, professional treatment and medication are frequently needed
I don't know what the hell's wrong with me. qq, this goes to you too. !! Anon, you too! And, about the fish oil stuff, first, I don't know what the hell's wrong with me, never can find out. Just want to be normal thats fucking all. I will likely take the time to read the above. I was more interested in just trying and finding out where you say I can get this "fish oil", tor
re EPA, I'll do search for you meanwhile I believe the reason you DON't KNOW what's wrong with you may be explained better via pink paragraph above!
http://www.authentic-breathing.com/fish_oil.htm everything u need to know here, chat to your doc about it?
