Here in the Uk almost everyday now you hear of a hit and run accident.

I believe this is caused by drivers without insurance not stopping. How can this be stopped? One miilion drivers in the Uk have no insurance.

Does the USA or your country have the same problem?

I read a solution to this problem online. It said why not have an insurance disc displayed on your windowsceen for all to see. We already have this in the UK for road tax in the forum of a road tax disc.

These drivers also push up the insurance cost for the people who do pay their insurance. This isn't fair and it's costing lifes. What is the solution?

I read a solution to this problem online. It said why not have an insurance disc displayed on your windowsceen for all to see. We already have this in the UK for road tax in the forum of a road tax disc.
Don't people who break the law also fake road tax discs? They look real until you investigate the details.

Here in the Uk almost everyday now you hear of a hit and run accident. ... How can this be stopped?

Well, the same thing can be said for almost any crime, can't it? "How can we stop xyx crimes from happening?"

But the problem, if you can't see it, is because citizens have too much freedom! We're free to commit those crimes ...i.e., until the crime is actually committed, we're all perfectly innocent and we don't want to be hassled by "The Jack-boot Cops". We demand our freedoms ....which, in effect, keeps the cops from randomly checking on our insurance, our licenses, our auto registration (or for drugs or alcohol or...).

If you wanted to murder someone, couldn't you do it almost without any problem at all? I mean, go buy an illegal gun, smile, walk up to the guy and pull the trigger. What's to stop you from doing it BEFOREHAND? Nothing! Because you're guaranteed your freedoms.

Baron Max

The cops in America legally can randomly check your insurance, license, registration, etc. Driving is a privilege; there's no fourth amendment on the road. The reason why they don't is that it's too much work.

the solution would be to have a small device that fires a RFID device that implants upon the offending vehicle.

RFID can be frauded, Quite simply if you can create a greater signal than the RFID tag reflects then you can "swamp" it with a fake one.

Hit and Run drivers aren't necessarily people that don't have insurance, but people that don't neccessarily have licenses. They might be illegally learning to drive or driving back from the pub (even with a ban).

The problem is however the courts and how people are dealt with, for instance my cousin was driving in one car with a friend driving another, his friend clipped a guy in the City who hit the Tarmac hard enough to put him in a comma. The guy eventually died. Both my Cousin and the guy that clipped him stopped at the scene of the accident, however they both got sentenced to manslaughter because the relatives of the deceased decided they wanted some sort of justice against them "street racing". The thing was that they weren't street racing, for one there cars aren't what you'd see in the "fast and the furious", there was no organised race course, they just happened to be going through the wrong part of the city at the wrong time.

My cousin had no criminal record, the other driver had been a notorious road offender with a number of dangerous driving offenses to his name, however they split the man slaughter charger almost 50/50. My cousin got 5 years (even though he didn't actually hit the guy) and the guy that hit him got 5 1/2 years.

If that is justice for doing the right thing after an accident, then whats the point in stopping?

Especially in the case were an illegal immigrant was driving at speed, drunk and smashed into the side of a car that was in a centre reservation killing a child passenger on board. He didn't stop but continued to drive on. When it came to court the trial itself was messed up somehow, he ended up doing less than 6 months for taking a life.

My comment here isn't about immigrants or racially motivated, it's mearly how the law picks and chooses it's Victims over it's Assailants.

The cops in America legally can randomly check your insurance, license, registration, etc. Driving is a privilege; there's no fourth amendment on the road.

No, you're wrong!! They must have some "legitimate" reason for stopping you in the first place. If not, then it's an illegal stop.

But since you think it's not, perhaps you can show some evidence to back up your statement, huh?

Baron Max

If that is justice for doing the right thing after an accident, then whats the point in stopping?

Justice? That's determined by a court of law, not by individuals. and if we all just do whatever-the-fuck we want to do, what's the point of laws in the first place? Let's just start using vigilanti "justice" and we'll all by happy with the outcomes, huh?

Baron Max

No, you're wrong!! They must have some "legitimate" reason for stopping you in the first place. If not, then it's an illegal stop.

But since you think it's not, perhaps you can show some evidence to back up your statement, huh?

Baron Max

http://public.findlaw.com/traffic-ticket-violation-law/traffic-stop-searches/traffic-stop-rights.html

I have a friend whos wife had an affair, he waited for the bloke and ran him over and killed him. It was tottaly intentional that he would kill him. I can't remember how much time he got maybe a year or less.

http://public.findlaw.com/traffic-ticket-violation-law/traffic-stop-searches/traffic-stop-rights.html

That's a fuckin' roadblock, dammit ...don't you know the difference between a roadblock, which stops EVERYONE, and a normal, single-car stop?!

Geez, get with the program, Bum!

Baron Max

I have a friend whos wife had an affair, he waited for the bloke and ran him over and killed him. It was tottaly intentional that he would kill him. I can't remember how much time he got maybe a year or less.

Crimes of passion are seen as a bit different to cold-blooded, planned murder.

Besides, one single example doesn't show or prove nothin' in what we're talking about.

Baron Max

That's a fuckin' roadblock, dammit ...don't you know the difference between a roadblock, which stops EVERYONE, and a normal, single-car stop?!

Geez, get with the program, Bum!

Baron Max

Funny, I don't remember mentioning a single-car stop.

Funny, I don't remember mentioning a single-car stop.

...LOL! So you suggest that the cops just start putting up roadblocks every fuckin' day to check every car on the roads for insurance, etc???? ...LOL!

You're funny, Bum, really fuckin' funny! :)

Baron Max

...LOL! So you suggest that the cops just start putting up roadblocks every fuckin' day to check every car on the roads for insurance, etc???? ...LOL!

You're funny, Bum, really fuckin' funny! :)

Baron Max

No. Actually I said from the beginning that they don't because it would be too much work, although they theoretically could. Surely you agree.

By the way, Baumgarten is my last name. When I was in first grade, my classmates sometimes called me Bumgarten to make fun of me. So, congratulations. You're as clever as a first grader. I could call you Baron Faggot, and I would be outdoing you in terms of wit. But I won't, because I'm in college, and anyone my age would skip the name calling and grab your ass at the outset.

The cops in America legally can randomly check your insurance, license, registration, etc. Driving is a privilege; there's no fourth amendment on the road. The reason why they don't is that it's too much work.

They do it down here in Georgia once a year. It's a campaign lasting for 100 days or so to make the roads safer.. they set up random road blocks to check insurance, registration, your license, and they become more aggressive about pulling people over that aren't wearing seat belts.

Click It - Or Ticket is the name.

...LOL! So you suggest that the cops just start putting up roadblocks every fuckin' day to check every car on the roads for insurance, etc???? ...LOL!

This is S.O.P. in the Soviet Socialist Republik of New York.

I've been stopped at seatbelt check points, vehicle registration checkpoints, vehicle inspection tag check points... never was asked to show my license/insurance, I gotta admit.

Worst part is, the emphasis is clearly less on the idea of keeping the roads safe than on the idea that additional $$$ can be raked in by snagging the people whose paperwork ain't up to snuff.

...LOL! So you suggest that the cops just start putting up roadblocks every fuckin' day to check every car on the roads for insurance, etc???? ...LOL!

Yea.. like I said, they do it here in Georgia every summer.

We also have lay-bys where a certain number of drivers are pulled in. I don't know what they check because I have never been pulled in. But these things are rare and random.

The thing I don't get in the UK is that we have a special camera network that logs and records almost every car on the road. You can't really go on a journey without being clocked. So they know all this information about drivers why can't they link this to an insurance computer and pull in people without Tax or Insurance?

Hitting these driver with fines generates so much money that surely it could fund a fleet of police to enforce it?

Just knowing that a fleet of police are on to this would sort much of the problem!

Hitting these driver with fines generates so much money that surely it could fund a fleet of police to enforce it?
Because people are convinced that it is only a money making scam, just like speed cameras. (Which are easy to avoid paying though - just don't speed:confused: ).

Here in the Uk almost everyday now you hear of a hit and run accident. I believe this is caused by drivers without insurance not stopping. How can this be stopped? One miilion drivers in the Uk have no insurance. Does the USA or your country have the same problem?In the USA we have a lot of hit-and-run accidents and we have a lot of accidents involving uninsured motorists. But I don't know how high the correlation is and I'm not sure your assumption of a strong causal relationship is valid.

If you cause an accident the consequences can be pretty severe. At the very least it goes on your driving record. Your insurance company may raise your rates all out of proportion to the damages they've underwritten, or cancel your policy. The state government may revoke your driver's license or limit your driving to what's necessary to keep your employment.

The nanny-state advocates and the politicans and media who seem to be under their influence want us to believe that most hit-and-run accidents are caused by drunk drivers. If you cause an accident because your BAC is over the limit you'll have a lot of trouble keeping your driver's license--and if you do you'll probably be thrown into the "assigned risk" insurance pool which could raise your rate to as high as $500 per month. Worse, you can be prosecuted. The results of this will vary depending on whether you can afford a good attorney, whether you're a member of an unpopular ethnic group and whether your local culture winks at good ol' boys raising a little hell. But you could go to jail and live with the shadow that will cast over present and future employment prospects. If you seriously injure someone or kill them, there's a good chance you will be charged with something, for example manslaughter or homicide.

It's pretty hard to tell how much damage you've done without stopping and going back to look, which gives everyone a chance to identify you. So some people make a more-or-less rational decision to floor it and hope to avoid dealing with the consequences.

After all, the plight of your victim will not actually be materially improved by your magnanimous confession of responsibility. The majority of Americans have medical insurance on our bodies and comprehensive insurance on our cars. Even if you don't have medical insurance, no one is allowed to die in America because they're poor. The doctors will fix you up good as new and only then will some bureaucrat start wondering who's going to pay for it all. Even if you're an undocumented immigrant. Life under the protection of The Great Satan really does have a number of advantages. :)

Another reason someone may avoid stopping for an interview with the gendarmes is that he's guilty of something else. They will routinely search your car and everyone in it. They will find the spliff in the ashtray, the unfinished open container of beer your buddy left in the back seat last week, the camera with the nude photos of your 16-year-old girlfriend, and her dog who's a year overdue for his rabies booster shot. They'll discover that you have twelve unpaid parking tickets. If you're a minor they'll tell your parents where you are, who you're with, what you did and what they found in your car.

He might even be guilty of something more serious. People often drive fast to get away from the scene of a crime they've just committed. The last person they want to see is a cop. The car is often deliberately stolen so that the license number can't be traced to them. Juvenile delinquents, as we called them in my day, routinely steal cars just to go "joyriding." If all goes well they'll leave them parked somewhere else for retrieval, but since they're often drunk and usually stupid they're just as likely to wreck the car along the way and run away on foot. Cars are also deliberately stolen to be disassembled and sold for parts.

There are a lot of reasons for a person who causes an accident to decide not to stop, and personally I don't think lack of insurance is very high on the list, at least not in America.These drivers also push up the insurance cost for the people who do pay their insurance.Yes, that's true. But in America it's not one of the larger factors in high rates. I've been in the insurance industry and fraud is the biggest problem, by an order of magnitude. Every insurance company has a huge staff of fraud investigators. Filing two claims for the same accident, reporting an accident that occurred before you bought the policy, blaming someone else for pre-existing damage, feigning injury, setting a car on fire so the insurance company will pay off the mortgage. In Louisiana--the state whose government is so dysfunctional it's amazing they spell the name correctly on their license plates--entire town police forces and court systems have been caught collaborating to defraud insurance companies. They bust rackets that have netted tens of millions of dollars. Hit-and-runs are small potatoes compared to this stuff.This isn't fair and it's costing lives.It isn't fair, but it's not costing lives. Whether or not the perpetrator stops generally has no effect on the survivability of the victim. If it happens out in the middle of the desert where there are no witnesses I suppose the victim could die from lack of medical attention, but that's some astoundingly bad luck. In the desert you can die just waiting for an ambulance anyway.What is the solution?Sorry, in my country it's just not a high-priority problem, at least not in my opinion. The primary effect is higher insurance rates, and hit-and-run accidents are not one of the leading factors in that phenomenon. It's far more cost-effective to focus our attention on insurance fraud. As has been pointed out by others, the issue of uninsured motorists is being steadily addressed by state governments armed with high-powered software. If I cancel my insurance policy and don't compensate by posting a bond (which last time I checked was a rather affordable $25,000), the state of California will immediately revoke my driver's license. We use our driver's licenses for identification in all sorts of situations in America. I might be able to get by until it expires, but if it's not renewed my life will become very difficult. It would be a far more rational course of action to buy the insurance even for $500 a month. Besides, even though I've been driving sensibly since 1983, just a couple of months ago I was stopped for making an "improper turn" on a deserted road in the middle of the night... in frelling Virginia. That cop made me sit there for thirty minutes while he checked every computer in the world for dirt on me. If I'd had an expired license, my Yankee ass would have been tossed in a redneck jail so fast...

Fraggle having no insurance does costs lives. People without insurance drive less safely than those with insurance. Also the est addition to insurance (UK) is 5%.

To me if 1 million people are driving on the (uk) roads without insurance it is a major problem that can be cost affectivley tackled.

You mention a lot of reasons that hit and runs are not that bad. But if you hit any one even reasonably hard they are in danger of dieing. Levaing someone for dead (even if they aren't really) is disgusting. So how do the victims feel?

Also what about the 1000's of smaller crashes where the non-insured hits a car or a parked car and give no details or false details and the dirver with insurance losses his no-claims bonus.

In my time driving, which isn't that long admittedly, I've never been pulled over.

More often than not you can sit in front or behind of a police car and speed. Today I was doing 40 in a 30 and I hadn't noticed the patrol car behind me, but nothing happened.

If anything, I'd say some cops drive like arseholes. Twice in the space of the past month I've almost been in a serious accident because of the way they drive. I was driving along, cop car was behind me pretty close, a drunk guy tumbled into the road - anchors on, screeching tires behind me - needless to say, the drunk guy got a talking to from the boys in blue. The other occasion - the cop was coming round a corner on the wrong side of the road, doing about 70 in a 40. A big sweeping corner, not as if you'd need to cut it to make it round at that speed. I had to dodge the bastard.

Random checks are rare. You see checks in laybys now and again, but they only signal to commercial/agricultural/big 4x4's. Looking for red-diesel.
Who gives a shit about peoples lives? Buying red diesel on the other hand, and not paying the government their taxes... tut tut.

Fraggle having no insurance does costs lives. People without insurance drive less safely than those with insurance.

Huh??? Just how the fuck do you know that?? ...LOL!

To me if 1 million people are driving on the (uk) roads without insurance it is a major problem that can be cost affectivley tackled.

How?

But if you hit any one even reasonably hard they are in danger of dieing. Levaing someone for dead (even if they aren't really) is disgusting.

How does having insurance help with that issue??? Does your insurance card automatically call for help?

Listen, I think this is actually a big issue, but they've been trying to find reasonable methods to fix it for some ten years or more and nothing seems to work. For example, they tried to make people show insurance cards to get a new license, or new card or renew the license, ...and every other type of situation. But people just bought a 6-month insurance coverage, and let it lapse ...and no one was the wiser.

Random stops aren't legal, but roadblock checks are ...but it's disasterous for the proper flow of traffic. So...what do you do ....stop the traffic and fuck up the whole damned city?

It's a big, big problem .....with damned few, if any, answers.

Baron Max

Max here is a BBC artical that shows some stats


Last Updated: Wednesday, 31 March, 2004, 23:10 GMT 00:10 UK

Drink menace of uninsured drivers
car crash
Crashes involving uninsured drivers cost £500m a year
Uninsured motorists are ten times more likely to drink drive than drivers who have insurance, according to research.

The study from the Association of British Insurers (ABI) also found that uninsured drivers are six times more likely to drive a non-roadworthy car.

In addition, they are three times more likely to be convicted of driving without due care.

The ABI estimates that more than a million motorists have no insurance and are involved in accidents worth £500m.

Worrying

At present, motorists caught driving without insurance on average receive a fine of £150 and three penalty points.

The cost of uninsured drivers adds £30 to average annual premiums, the ABI said.

"These are worrying findings," said ABI director general Mary Francis.

"They reinforce our call for a tough crackdown on people who drive without insurance.

"There really is no excuse and this is not a case of financial exclusion."

As you can see these people are very dangerous on the roads. You would think that they would take more care as the conseqences of crashing are so much higher, but its not the case.

Max here is a BBC artical that shows some stats

Oh, I know it's a problem, Alex, but what to do and how to do is a major, major problem and I know of no one who has ever suggested a realistic, workable solution. The cops just have too much to do as it is to expect them to stop everyone all the time to check ...just not reasonable.

So ....what else? I don't know, that's for sure. And I've been hit twice by uninsured drivers ....my insurance paid, and they go off with a minor fine!

Baron Max