http://bp1.blogger.com/_AB8T0fiGnqU/R5TZkilNLLI/AAAAAAAAAwE/GfXMW7MJ85g/s320/Imam+Husain.JPG

See the photo on the left: A tazia in urban India, prompts a woman to nudge her husband, who stops the scooter.

She takes off her footwear, walks up to the tazia and pays her respect to the Tazia that is on its way to the main procession.

Once at the procession, most of the women who make their kids pass under the Tazia, are Hindu. Many Muslims now frown upon the practice and such rituals.

But this is Indianised Islam, a blend of Hindu and Muslim traditions. It's so easy to reject things. Many Muslims call it a form of idolatory and of course some Hindus now object to this Islamisation of Hinduism.

But these millions of Hindus and Muslims who observe it together, also have an absolute right and a freedom to observe their faith. There is something in this soil that makes an Indian a believer.

What else explains the devotion of Hindu women who don't apply oil in their heads for the ten days of Ashura, to commemorate a battle that occurred far away in Iraq in which the Prophet's grandson sacrificed his life.

From: An Indian Muslim's Blog (http://www.anindianmuslim.com/2008/01/hindus-and-husain.html)

Many Muslims now frown upon the practice and such rituals.

quite rightly.

But this is Indianised Islam,
there is no validity in indianised islam, or any -ised islam.
the fact that it exsists is irrelevant.


a blend of Hindu and Muslim traditions.
who outlined the true deen of islam in in it's correct form? and showed people how to correctly implement it?
the prophet saw or hindu traditions?
which holds more weight?



It's so easy to reject things.
as it is just as easy to ignore certain realities and actualites which transcend our own compulsions.



Many Muslims call it a form of idolatory
come on now sam.
what is is
what is allowded in islam has been made clear.
what is not allowed in islam has been made clear.





[/QUOTE]

quite rightly.
there is no validity in indianised islam, or any -ised islam.
the fact that it exsists is irrelevant.
who outlined the true deen of islam in in it's correct form? and showed people how to correctly implement it?
the prophet saw or hindu traditions?
which holds more weight?
as it is just as easy to ignore certain realities and actualites which transcend our own compulsions.
come on now sam.
what is is
what is allowded in islam has been made clear.
what is not allowed in islam has been made clear.

Does Islam say not to mourn or remember the dead? Not to celebrate an occasion? Not to commemorate historical occasions? Not to have any emotional stake in your history or country or culture?

I don't think any Muslims "worship" the tazias; but calling a commemoration idolatory? Should we then NOT celebrate Eid-e-Milad of the Prophet? Or even your own?

Here we hang our stocking out on Christmas Eve so Santa will leave a few treats. Extra treats if you put a carrot out for Rudolph.

Does Islam say not to mourn or remember the dead?

I don't think any Muslims "worship" the tazias; but calling a commemoration idolatory? Should we then celebrate Eid-e-Milad of the Prophet? Or even your own?

you know for a smart chic you sure do act dumb sometimes.

1) idolatory/eid milad...sepearte isssues.
2) idolatory includes any depiction or representaion by man of:
allah swt
any of the angels
any prophets, esp rasool saw and the ah'lal bayt
period.

i could engage in a hadith pulling battle with you, but no need, you know it, plus i cant be arsed.

the gist is:

how can you depict what transcends your comprehension.
such endevours take one away from spiritual worship which is what is paramount in the deen

leave such nonsense for the catholics (who have been warned not to dilute the true creed of xtianity into the trinity in a surah of the quran) and the hindus.

you know for a smart chic you sure do act dumb sometimes.

1) idolatory/eid milad...sepearte isssues.
2) idolatory includes any depiction or representaion by man of:
allah swt
any of the angels
any prophets, esp rasool saw and the ah'lal bayt
period.

i could engage in a hadith pulling battle with you, but no need, you know it, plus i cant be arsed.

the gist is:

how can you depict what transcends your comprehension.
such endevours take one away from spiritual worship which is what is paramount in the deen

leave such nonsense for the catholics (who have been warned not to dilute the true creed of xtianity into the trinity in a surah of the quran) and the hindus.

And whats a tazia got to do with any of the above?

http://www.gurjari.net/ico/Festival/muslim/muharram/tajia2.jpg

Does Islam say not to mourn or remember the dead?
remember yes
depict no
2 issues are seperate.
dont need depiction to remember.



Not to celebrate an occasion? Not to commemorate historical occasions?
again see above.


Not to have any emotional stake in your history or country or culture?
emotion lies within the heart.
it does not need physical depiction
allah knows intention (neeyah) better than you.
that is sufficient.
if you feel you need physical depiction to validate your neeyah then your imaan is weak.

remember yes
depict no
2 issues are seperate.
dont need depiction to remember.

So you don't have any photographs of people/pets who have passed away?

No mementos they gave you that you keep for sentimental reasons?

No people you admire/ respect that you have posters of?

emotion lies within the heart.
it does not need physical depiction
allah knows intention (neeyah) better than you.
that is sufficient.
if you feel you need physical depiction to validate your neeyah then your imaan is weak.

Or maybe merely human.:)

And whats a tazia got to do with any of the above?

http://www.gurjari.net/ico/Festival/muslim/muharram/tajia2.jpg
what's the need for it.

the 10 days of muharam should be remembered in far better ways, far beneficial ways within the deen, ie fasting on the 10 and 11th days.

those who lack incisive knowledge of the deen resort to such endeavours.

what's the need for it.

the 10 days of muharam should be remembered in far better ways, far beneficial ways within the deen, ie fasting on the 10 and 11th days.

those who lack incisive knowledge of the deen resort to such endeavours.

How Dull and Boring.

Tazias are fun. :D

So you don't have any photographs of people/pets who have passed away?
never had pets. not a pet person
photos yes, but kept away in albums.
none adorn my walls




No mementos they gave you that you keep for sentimental reasons?
i keep them in my heart,
i remember them in the best way possible, i visit the grave regularly and offer Al-Fatiah to them.
the rewards of which far far transcend keeping mere pic, and far far beneficial to them and me.

No people you admire/ respect that you have posters of?
those who i truly admire and respect, there is no need to have posters of them
my respect manifests in me trying to be like them, conduct my life as best i can in their way....what better way to manifest true respect?

You're not supposed to visit graves. Or even mark them.

As for photos or posters around the house, if your faith is so weak that pictures get in the way of it, well its better for you to keep them locked away.

How Dull and Boring.

Tazias are fun. :D
how faustian.

no, not dull and boring, when you gain true value of these actions, and what they enable us to gain, they do not become borring, they become uplifting.:)

how faustian.

no, not dull and boring, when you gain true value of these actions, and what they enable us to gain, they do not become borring, they become uplifting.:)

Is it? I find any restriction on expression stifling.

I feel it is better to be clear about your religion than use false restraints to control your thoughts.

I've attended many Ganesh visarjans and bhajans and poojas and Catholic masses and it enriches rather than diminishes me.

You're not supposed to visit graves. Or even mark them.

As for photos or posters around the house, if your faith is so weak that pictures get in the way of it, well its better for you to keep them locked away.

lol sam, off course you are, visiting graves to send al-fathia is irrefutable, the rasool spoke in great depth about it in many hadith.

visiting graves for other purposes in not allowed.

yes marking of graves not allowed, but a small headstone is ok, but even if the graves are unmarked, this doesn't prevent one sending al-fathiah.

i think its not encouraged for women to visite graves, but my knowledge on this is weak.
but thats the beauty of the deen.

one can send al-fathiah to passed muslims from home,
its all down to neeyah
allah knows our neeyah.:)

lol sam, off course you are, visiting graves to send al-fathia is irrefutable, the rasool spoke in great depth about it in many hadith.

visiting graves for other purposes in not allowed.

yes marking of graves not allowed, but a small headstone is ok, but even if the graves are unmarked, this doesn't prevent one sending al-fathiah.

i think its not encouraged for women to visite graves, but my knowledge on this is weak.
but thats the beauty of the deen.

one can send al-fathiah to passed muslims from home,
its all down to neeyah
allah knows our neeyah.:)

Next you'll have a maqbara, and flowers and then mausoleums...:bawl:

You sad sad creature :bawl:

Is it? I find any restriction on expression stifling.



yes, why not crack open a bottle of vodka.
it's just you expressing yourself.
im sure allah swt would understand.

I feel it is better to be clear about your religion
if you were clear we wouldn't be engaged in this futile banter, and i'd be making myself some tea right now.
speak to scholars sam.

than use false restraints to control your thoughts.
not false at all sam.
you, me, joe bloggs cant shape islam to the way we want it, to our own compulsion. the deen is the deen.
simple as that, irrefuteable.
its been layed down quite clearly in the quran and ahadith.
if the truth aout the deen doesnt conform to our beliefs then the problem lies with us.

I've attended many Ganesh visarjans and bhajans and poojas and Catholic masses and it enriches rather than diminishes me.
kudos, absolutely.
visit them for sure.
how many non muslims have you taken to the masjid?:)

Next you'll have a maqbara, and flowers and then mausoleums...:bawl:

You sad sad creature :bawl:
no. i wont
why would i??:confused:

no. i wont
why would i??:confused:

Natural progression. Have you seen the tomb of Bibi Fatima (http://archive.mumineen.org/publications/JannatulBaqi/baqimain1.jpg)?

Its a well known spot for ziyarat. :p

Not to mention the graves of Nabi Musa (http://www.atlastours.net/holyland/nabi_musa_aerial_view.jpg) and Uthman (http://www.yanabi.com/media/IslamicImages/prophet_family/images/grave_of_othman-ibn_afan.jpg)

See, I actually think visiting graves is pointless, unless its for historical interest.

There's no one home.:shrug:

Natural progression. Have you seen the tomb of Bibi Fatima (http://archive.mumineen.org/publications/JannatulBaqi/baqimain1.jpg)?

Its a well known spot for ziyarat. :p

Not to mention the graves of Nabi Musa (http://www.atlastours.net/holyland/nabi_musa_aerial_view.jpg) and Uthman (http://www.yanabi.com/media/IslamicImages/prophet_family/images/grave_of_othman-ibn_afan.jpg)

See, I actually think visiting graves is pointless, unless its for historical interest.

There's no one home.:shrug:
absolutely, visiting the graves for historical knowledge is fine.
but the ignorance of people leads them to engage in other activities.
i would love to visit those ziyarats some day inshallah, but i will be clear in the context within which i am visiting them.:)

absolutely, visiting the graves for historical knowledge is fine.
but the ignorance of people leads them to engage in other activities.
i would love to visit those ziyarats some day inshallah, but i will be clear in the context within which i am visiting them.:)

Dharam bhrashth!!! :C~

rather visit here:

http://static2.bareka.com/photos/medium/4210609/masjid-nabwi-prophets-mosque.jpg

http://photos8.flickr.com/10164124_12faf13d16_o.jpg