I will start the forum (thank you Dave) on this topic. Sometime ago, I posted the following on another board.


As a follower of Sanatana Dharma, it was easy for me to understand Gene Roddenberry’s vision as a Humanist. In this topic, I will try to show the connection between the 10,000 year old way of life, religion, God, Gene’s vision, Computer Technology, Gene manipulation, Star Trek and create a foundation with the help of Gene’s visionary fans such that this will be a working copy of the process that becomes a catalyst to bring about Gene’s vision in to reality.
In doing so I respectfully invite only those participants that are willing to volunteer with the above objective – otherwise it will distract us from the path. This is an idea and I would like to get some feedback to see if we have enough Gene’s fans to work on this interesting project. It may take several years but the payback will be big.
Why bring Sanatana Dharma (SD) in to it? We need some legitimacy to the Humanism because present western religion is anti-humanism. Some one once told me – if scientists find the cure for cancer with a simple no-side-effect pill, do you think American Cancer Society will close its door? May be!
During the Vedic period (1500 BC and before) people had a peaceful existence. Needs were met and differences between rich and poor was a flat bell curve. We do not know for sure if people were really happy but the philosophy and ideas they left us if applied today will make a better society than what we have. Major part of that philosophy coincides with Gene’s philosophy.
There is a big difference between present Hinduism that has been influenced by local greedy power-hungry priests and invaders from north and west since the Vedic period. A lot of well-educated Indians feel that way and the process are being in place to change the downward trend.
SD philosophy is not based on a belief system. That is ‘this is the way it is’ or that ‘this is my interpretation and you must accept it’ type scenarios. Dharma means ‘Way of Life’ – it has nothing to do with religion. It is more like Vulcan Philosophy – believe it or not, it is right here on Earth. I would like to emphasize that I am not trying to convert any one from their ‘Belief System’ to a ‘Way of Life’. Simply if we can use someone else’s prior work, we do not have to re-invent the wheel.
Since 200 AD, this planet has been inundated with religions with various forms. Why, because the originators are well meaning people who tried to solve complex social issues with new guidelines but inadvertently created their own religion that became incompatible with someone else’s. From Mohammed to Gautama (Buddha), to Joseph Smith to myriads of Cults….
With our exponential progress in technology and social awareness, internet and education, globalization of commerce – starting a new religion or reinterpreting an old one will not work. What is needed is a common foundation based on social logic and guess what! Humanism.
We will continue to develop this theme with your help….in the meantime…What type of society we wish for? (jump in with your wish list)


You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees & the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Some of the definitions we will use (my defs)

Sanatana Dharma

Sanatana: Eternal
Dharma: Way of Life

Any way of life that when practiced by majority of people can provide peace, happiness and prosperity for mankind for eternity is THE WAY OF LIFE.

I practice Jnana Yoga

Jnana: Knowledge
Yoga: Into, Union, Merge, Path

a framework within which the self optimally utilizes its resources and processes to anticipate future opportunities, changes and threats, to continuously renew itself for sustenance, survival and growth in mind , body and spirit.

Hope that helps

In Eastren ways of thought, I know nothing. I have never been "exposed to it". I have no basis to say yea, nea, or whatever. So as far as I am concerned it is a blank slate. So I will listen with no judgement but with a critical ear. Not critical for what fault I can find but rather if the key fits.

It certianly must have something going for it, after all there are literally millions of people who follow for some reason. And that reason is not known to me. Should it be? I would like the option of knowing.

A side comment:

You might wonder what happened to "Gene’s visionary fans " that I was soliciting help from? ...and how the story end?

Well, they were no where to be found, none that wanted to contribute on this basis. So need less to say, I got some criticism, distractions and the whole thing fizzled out.

This is a start. Somewhere I compared SD with Kabala, I can not find the posting yet.

The common ancestor of this way of thinking is rooted just before or around Old Testament. I find Kabala interpretation to be as close to SD as I can get. Once we can get there, it will be easier to follow the thread.

For readings in Kabala which has some links goto

http://www.crcsite.org/kabala.htm

Also Google search on the topic. I have seen a great site, as soon as I find it, I will provide the link. Any Jewish faith persons, please help me out here for a good link.

There is a lot of info here to be worked through. It seems to have basis in astrology and tarot (waite deck pictured if I am not mistaken) I will eventually work my way through this but it will take some time.

Good Luck. Here are a few more links:
http://www.geocities.com/garyjones32/
http://www.jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm
http://aish.com/spirituality/kabbala101

The best one still is:

http://www.crcsite.org/WhyKabala.htm

The Hindu purifications are almost identical.

Oh sure, load it on. Where's that wheelbarrow? Grumble, grumble...

First I thought it is misleading to teach materialism under the topic "Hinduism", but the Britannica confirmed, that materialism is also included:
-------
What Every Hindu Ought to Know
Hindu Students CouncilRating: Basic summary of Hinduism intended for other Hindus, primarily men. Advocates a kind of Hinduism called Sanatana Dharma, or Eternal Religion. Provides information on a number of features of Hinduism, including Vedic scripture, the six philosophical systems (darshana), the four yogas or sadhanas ( disciplines ), several rituals, the importance of temples, and the celebration of festivals. Also offers many opinions about secularism, women and Hinduism, ethics, Hinduism and world politics, Indian politics, and materialism.
--------
Nevertheless this does not correspond with my world-view:
http://home.t-online.de/home/hraith/english.htm

Thanks for the invitation kmguru :)

I'm glad you would like to hear my views on the subject but it may not be what you want to hear. Or then again it might be.

A society that I would like would be one that is aware of sin. But also aware of Jesus christ as Lord and Saviour. If people realized that sin was wrong and not of God they would turn back to God and thus be saved. I would hope anyway.

Any way of life that when practiced by majority of people can provide peace, happiness and prosperity for mankind for eternity is THE WAY OF LIFE.

kmguru, if I may ask a question. Would this give a true or a false sense of peace? Bare in mind I am not trying to attack you or your views but asking.

I think if everyone did believe these things. Then yes, there would be peace among majority. However, if people were forced to believe in a system then this would definitely be a false sense of peace. But then what about the minority in either situaltion. They would be cast out. Anyway, that is what I think.

Thanks

I think if everyone did believe these things. Then yes, there would be peace among majority. However, if people were forced to believe in a system then this would definitely be a false sense of peace.

Deadwood, let us look the situation at somewhat in an objective manner. In Hinduism (or more like SD) it is permitted to argue and look at a philosophical level. Hinduism is a blend of philosophy and belief system. Once we drop to the belief system, it does not matter what your argument is, debate is useless.

Now, I agree with you on the forced belief system. And that is the problem. To live in a society in peace, you need certain rules. In a democracy, you have to believe in democracy, if you are forced to it, you may have to leave town.

It is the right thing to do for our species. The SD definition does not exclude any ideas, thoughts or beliefs as long as it meets the requirement. Try your beliefs, if it does meet the acid test, then that is included in the way of life.

Food for thought: In US, we have speed limits on any public highways. Do you think, people who buy Viper, or Lambroghini obey the speed limit everytime? If not then why do we sell them?Why we do not require a blackbox to be installed inside the car that records the speed?

The SD definition does not exclude any ideas, thoughts or beliefs as long as it meets the requirement.

What are the requirements?

The definition is the requirement.

kmguru, I still don't get it. Can you please expand on the definition of the requirement?

As I understand it, if you test the way of life against the longivity of that way of life, you will find that certain actions have inimical consequences. That consequences may result the destruction of that society.

Ten commandments are good examples. If you break one or more rules and the society is based on the opposite of those rules, how long do you think, that society as a whole will last?

As you know, in a civilized society, law makers feel bound to make laws every session and in a couple of thousand years, you will have a few million laws you must obey to live in that society. Sometimes, it is difficult to know, what is fair and what is not. The definition is another way of looking in to what is just and what is not. If the common people find that it is unjust, then they can do something about it, assuming of course it is a democracy. Since moral and ethical laws are difficult to make (but done all the time - like cloning and stem cell research), it could be checked in a broader sense.

A definition is not the only item for all the complexities in a society, same way the US Constitution is not the only item for gevernance. It is a guide for other rules and clarifications. But without a fundamental principle, you can not build a robust society and hence the definition.

As you know, in a civilized society, law makers feel bound to make laws every session and in a couple of thousand years, you will have a few million laws you must obey to live in that society.

You are right that there a more laws being made then being gotten rid of. This reminds me of the law still in effect in Australia it is a crime to wear slippers in public. This is because in the olden days when people had wooden floors there wood be no prints left on the floor if you were a burglar. So basically back then if you saw someone wearing slippers out in public, chances were that person was a criminal. Thus, I don't wear slippers in public, though I am tempted to. But I don't exactly want to go to court.

Too many laws and nobody goesback to clean it up. There should be a judicial panel just to review these laws and see what is applicable. Otherwise someday when the computers take over, they would not look the other way. If you are walking on a slipper in public and the automated camera picks it up, it can in theory recognize who you are and send you a ticket for say $50 fine.

Then all hell will break loose....

Some shops in Australia have a camera that taes your image when you walk in and the computer will match it to a database and warn the shop keeper if that person has ever been convicted a criminal. (eg shoplifter, armed hold up person).

Pretty interesting, but the question on the minds of human rights people is if it is ethical.

That goes against Christianity, redemption, crime/punishment, and is detrimental to society as whole. Here is why.

You wanted to feed your family. Because you did not have a job for a while, you steal and go to jail, pay your dues of say 3 months, comeback, and try to be a productive member of the society. But you can not, because you can not go anywhere and expect any service from anybody. You will be treated as if you have contagious desease. You are a prisoner of your own society for mistakes you made (and paid for) in the past.

The next step: The insurance agencies will demand that you have a gps/lojack system that will alert if you obey traffic laws. If you do not, they will drop the insurance.

Your genetic file will be used to charge insurance premium. Soon, if you sneeze it will cost you money. It will be like the "Demolition Man". You swear publicly, you get a ticket.

If you think, violence is today, you will get more not less...

I think that this is mainly for repeat offenders. Also, if the person has been on the run then you can use it for that. But as you say, it is definitely a privacy issue, and privacy is something that I personally value.

Deadwood:

Looks like the topics in Eastern Philosophy is left to you and me to post, while a large number of viewers are watching and reading mode. So, ask your friends and post anything interesting - specially philosophical and sociological issues "down under". I have never been to Australia, is it more like UK or a blend of UK, US and South Afrika?

How is economy down there? Do you have any magazine that is home grown in economy, news & commentary etc that are on the net? Who is your biggest telecom company?

Hey kmguru,

Australia is like a half-way between the US and UK. We get our roots from the UK, but follow the US so to speak. Our economy is interesting. Our economy has grown the most or second in the world lately compared to the other countries of the developed world. But our dollar in the last three years has gone from like AUD$1 = US$0.80 but is not AUD$1 = US$0.50- US$0.50. So if you're thinking of coming over anytime soon, you will find a great conversion rate for you US dollars. that is an understatement. I don't know how the US does it.

no I don't know of any online economy mags online, but our biggest Telco is Telstra. They sponsor Ian Thorpe, the swimmer. He is kinda lucky that he got to swim, because when the AIS(Australian Institute of Sport) actually came looking for a swimmer, my classmate(one of the ones involved in the clothes fiasco :D ) beat him. So Thorpe came second. But since my friend has a bad knee they chose thorpe instead. Now he doesn't like thorpe with a vengeance. Because I mentioned in english class once his name once and said how great a swimmer he was, and he got real upset. He said that he used to always whip him with the towel and that thorpe would always get his mum. Well, that was in the Under 14's swimming.

You should tell your friend to have his knee repaired and go back to swimming. He can easily get a scholarship to come to US. If he does not make it to Olympics, still he can go coaching. He should learn meditative techniques (relaxation control) to improve his time. I had a student who was also a swimmer in freshman college. He did improve his capability after one course.

He's had numerous operations before, but to no avail. But still, it just goes to show how different the swimming world could have been.

Sorry to hear that. May I make a suggestion:

People who are excellent in a skill, it is not the skill but the drive and sheer will power that gets them there. What he can do is focus on something different and strive to equally excel in that.

Personally, when I was in college, I was challeged to enter an art contest. Even though I was a novice in the art department, I worked on it and was placed in 3rd. I proved to myself and to my friends that it can be done.

I have changed my career 4 times, each one in completely different fields. And on each one I was one of the best - atleast in USA . So it can be done.

Actually, he's not very smart in school. But he does love drawing. He made a cartoon a couple of years ago based on me(hehe, I was the main character) and it was on Television! Though I missed it doh! But it was one of them short 2-3 minute cartoons. My little brother was jealous. He said "are you getting any money for this", but I told him that hey I've been on a cartoon, whats money worth when its something like this. But it was on one of them stations that not many people watch. We were making a movie together but he lost the script and the background and everything. Actually for Englis, we had to do a Movie. I got the second highest grade in the class for Silence of the Lambs. But he failed because the teacher said that she had watched the movie before and he got the cast members names wrong. But the thing is, how could she watch a movie that wasn't even out yet? Well, he should've put in more believable cast names.

Your friend and you could set up a free website like geocities and a company with 50/50 proft. Then let him draw the cartoons, you can scan them and color them and animate them - then put it on the web. Try to attract attention and soon, before you know it, you may get the business going well....

Business is risk, but it is worth it when you succeed....

Funny you should mention that. We were actually planning that. but it never really got out of the planning stage. We were going to stream it in real player or something but we didn't know how to do it.

You see everytime we have an idea we would work on it during class and when we were getting somewhere it would get either lost or stolen(it was written all on paper). People were on to us, well thats what I think. People wanting to steal our ideas and use it for their own. Well thats business I guess. But really I just like to see my ideas used even if I don't get anything out of it other than the satisfaction that my idea was good and people liked it.

We also don't have any HTML experience. Once we were thinking of putting up song lyrics on the web. But these are interactive song lyrics. but before you see the song lyrics you are asked for stuff like your favourite animal, person you most dislike, favourite food etc. Then after you input that the song comes up with what you wrote in different places. I knew how to do it in "Delphi" but not HTML. But anyway, we were talking and a guy said that he would do it(what you would call a real computer geek). But the thing is he someone who doesn't even like me or who I could trust. Our whole grade didn't like that guy. Not because he likes computers but because he was really up himself because he knew a lot about computers. So I knew he would pass it up as his own. So I didn't give him anything plus I didn't trust him. Also, he made a website that was "myname.cjb.net" that forwarded to a porno site. Then a few weeks later a beastyality site and told everyone about my site. But anyway they all knew it wasn't my doing.

So again, I guess thats business. I have had some ideas but they either get lost or stolen. :( Also, I got an invite to partake in the worlds biggest amaeture poetry prize at Disney World, but I can't afford to go hehe so I never told my parents. Well, I guess someday I'll get a break, nows probably not the time.

You can do the song lyrics on Javascript. Go get a book on it, it is easy to learn. You may be able to take a class on it at school. There are JS classes on the internet free - too. Good Luck

Hi guys! Whats your thoughts on this.

As the embodied soul continuosly passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into andother body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a cange.

Bhagavad Gita; 2:13

I am not sure, that is a good logic though. Without a good definition of the soul, it is hard to follow one. When you die, you die at a specific time when the brain stops functioning. There is no specific demarkation when you pass one phase of your life to next except an arbitrary age set by our society. Then there is the problem of what happens to the soul that you are replacing if you pass to another body. Or exactly what is the time frame when a fetus becomes self aware - or does it?

It is much more complicated and more like a belief system than something happens in reality. I am always open to better understanding of the nature of our being.

One thing that I want to know in Hinduism is if when the world was created were there the same amount of souls as their is today.

I guess you couldn't really say when the soul would pass but perhaps if you count the body(flesh) and the soul as two different entities that may help.

But then you might say that the body could exist without a soul and vice versa or that as soon as a body begins to become formed there is a soul waiting to enter it? I'm not sure what the beliefs are.

There are an unlimited amount of souls. A soul is spiritual by nature. It is part and parcel of the spiritual Whole, God. The spirit-soul is the lifeforce of matter. In other words matter is useless without the intervention of the spirit-soul. For example, a car cannot act without the aid of a person (spirit-soul), it remains just a lump. A body without a soul is useless, it is a dead body. The symptom of the spirit-soul is consciousness.
God is pure spirit, the Supreme (male) it is He who injects life into the material energy, (female). From this point on, the universe(s) becomes abundant with life. We are no-different from the Supreme qualatively. Where we differ, is that God is infinate and we are finate. An example is if we take just a drop water from the atlantic ocean, it would be identical to the rest of the ocean, qualatively, but would not be as great as the ocean quantatively.
So our position is that, as spirit-souls we are separated parts and parcels of the the Supreme Soul (Brahman).

Why are we separated?

Because we decided we wanted to enjoy, like God. In other words we envy God, so we became rebelious, like Lucifer, Ravanna or Kamsa. So God created a universe(s) so we can act out our fantasies. In order for us to live in the material atmosphere, we require bodies, so the bodies are given to us by (mother) nature. The seed is provided by God.

As soon as there is sexual intercourse a designated soul is waiting to enter into the womb of the mother. I say designated, because that person (spirit-soul) has the right qualifications to be born unto those parents, be they ants, animals, humans or demigods etc. His parents are chosen, either according to his actions (if human) in his previous life (karma), or if he was a plant, animal, insect etc...he then moves up the evolutionary scale until he obtains a human body. It is stated in vedic literature that there are 8,400,000 species of life.

The spirit-soul never changes, because he is part and parcel of the Supreme Soul he is eternal, never comes into being or never destroyed. Matter on the other hand, has to be created and ultimately has to be anihilated, this body is made up of all the variegated material elements eg; air, fire , water etc...
After the dissolution of this material body, the soul has to accept another body according to his actions.

kmguru quote: Definitions
Some of the definitions we will use (my defs)

Sanatana Dharma

Sanatana: Eternal
Dharma: Way of Life

Any way of life that when practiced by majority of people can provide peace, happiness and prosperity for mankind for eternity is THE WAY OF LIFE.

I practice Jnana Yoga

Jnana: Knowledge
Yoga: Into, Union, Merge, Path

a framework within which the self optimally utilizes its resources and processes to anticipate future opportunities, changes and threats, to continuously renew itself for sustenance, survival and growth in mind , body and spirit.

Hope that helps




Jnana Yoga ??????? Personally I have felt the teachings of Bodi Dharma to be most relevant to my understanding of the world around me.

.....thanks Kmguru.....:)

Hi Riddler:

Whatever works for you....Different strokes for different folks....

I like to be a Knowledge Management Guru. he... he...:D

I met a guy at GATECH who was an INDIAN HINDU and a firm believer of his relegion.i have actually added a touch of scientific "matrix"style approach to his ideas.please say something about them KMGURU.

in hinduism lord "BRAHMA" has said to be created world in 1 day.consider this world as a computer program and brahma as a computer programmer.

lord "VISHNU" as he told me is said to be maintaining this world.
consider this:he creates those small time programs and inserts it into the matrix and inside a human to call him avtar or so they say in hinduism.well jesus christ,rama,krishna,proph mohd etc are a few examples.(EXACTLY WHAT "NEO" was in the matrix movie).

lord shiva as he told me is the boss. (CMD OF THE TRIO -:))
(NOTE:In all of my speculations i have assumed that we live inside a computer system,a programmed one,thereby assuming the existence of god.also i want to just add my own thoughts which doesnt mean that i want to make my friend correct in any respect.just a thought!)-:)-:)

Hi Zion,

Interesting idea, works for me... Just like sedimentary rocks in grand canyon, it is difficult to separate todays Hinduism from the original Veda days. One of the story in Indian folklore is that we came from Mizar binary star systems and settled on Earth. Well, then - even if we are a computer program, it must be running a long time - with interconnected sub programs elsewhere.

I posted elsewhere that the Gods interacting with humans could be special software agents that directly interfaces with the programmers.

Interesting speculation but any truth to it? who knows?....

Well I had been looking at some of the Symbols from the Hindus (and symbols that date back tot he Indis and even Celt/Viking)

One of them you all know, possibly some of you know for the wrong reason. That is the Swastika.
I have actually theotised an understanding to the Ancients versions true meaning, And it does coincide with Avatar (The descent of a deity to earthly form).

Basically the Symbol means a system of Quantum Acceleration (to me and what diagram I had to draw to get it.) Also there were other symbols, some of which you will find under Symbols in the Pseudoscience area of Sciforums.

I left out the swastika and pentagon, because I thought some people would find them deeply offensive. Of course on further inspection they should actually be less offensive than the Christian cross (Even though the NAZI's did mock Hinduism with their usage of the Swastika.)

I have previously worried about expressing too much information on my thoughts of the past because I've always felt something which I couldn't admit to anyone. And it involves that Avatar point of mythology and myself.

The nazi symbol is right handed where as Indian Swastika is left handed. In India it is used extensively to ward off evil spirits and for good luck. The Nazis flipped it meaning bad luck and guess what happened...

*Originally posted by Riddler
onally I have felt the teachings of Bodi Dharma to be most relevant to my understanding of the world around me.*

That explains why you call yourself institutionalized.

*Originally posted by kmguru
I posted elsewhere that the Gods interacting with humans could be special software agents that directly interfaces with the programmers. *

Only a knowledge management guru who designs advanced decision systems could miss the point so thoroughly.

God would BE the programmer.

Gurus would be like viruses.

*The nazi symbol is right handed where as Indian Swastika is left handed. In India it is used extensively to ward off evil spirits and for good luck. The Nazis flipped it meaning bad luck and guess what happened...*

It's bad luck either way.
India went from a major civilization to a slum around an open sewer while using the swastika.
I guess it wasn't as effective at warding off evil spirits as first supposed.
One can almost picture those spirits laughing at the thought.

Christianity killed thousands in an exterminatory series of wars called the Crusades under the cross, and lost.

The Swastika is used to represent the four cardinal directions. The reason there are 90º angles in it denotes the spin of the earth, or, the turn of night and day, life and death, the inevitable cycle of life.
There's a similar icon, the cross, with four cardinal points, that likely was formed out of similar ideas, that Jesus represents the central aspects of life, and so died on the cross. Do you see how these can overlap?

I pray that you can.

tony1, rather than just denouncing someone else's point with hypocrisy, you should rather try understanding its relationship and similarity to your own philosophy. Else you are only closing your mind and forming for yourself a padded cell of doctrines.

As I see it (and indeed I may stand alone in this) you only alienate yourself and so fight against your viewpoints.

Evil spirits laughing in their triumph? A sign of peace that generated pain? All can be said of Christianity, and so when said of Hinduism and the like so damns Christianity as well.

God would BE the programmer.

Exactly, my point...


Gurus would be like viruses.

Software agents...

Bin Laden, tony 1...the viruses...same thing...:D

*Originally posted by spankyface
tony1, rather than just denouncing someone else's point with hypocrisy,*

If someone makes a point with hypocrisy, it probably should be denounced.

*you should rather try understanding its relationship and similarity to your own philosophy.*

What for?
For example, if someone makes a point about the non-existence of God, why would I want to waste my time trying to "understand the similarity" to my own view, when it is obviously opposite to my POV?

*Else you are only closing your mind and forming for yourself a padded cell of doctrines.*

Such clever word-play.

*Evil spirits laughing in their triumph? A sign of peace that generated pain? All can be said of Christianity, and so when said of Hinduism and the like so damns Christianity as well. *

More clever word-play.
Evil spirits aren't laughing at Christianity; they're terrified of it.
What sign does Christianity have?

And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
(Mark 8:12, KJV).

*Originally posted by kmguru
Exactly, my point*

Really?
Here is what you said your point was...

"I posted elsewhere that the Gods interacting with humans could be special software agents that directly interfaces with the programmers."

That is curiously different from God being the programmer.
As a debating style, claiming the other guy's point is actually your own, when it isn't, is rather useless in a written debate.
It works much better in a spoken debate when the points aren't actually being recorded.

*Software agents...

Bin Laden, tony 1...the viruses...same thing*

Not really.
kmguru...virus...much more like the same thing.

Viruses coopt one's computer in much the same way you coopt someone else's point.
The way viruses add no value to a computer system is very similar to the way you add no value when teaching TM, or claim the other guy's point is your own, etc.

The Bible is a sinkhole of "clever wordplay", buddy.

If God is the universal, understanding being you say he is, and you're so set on proving that fact, then I don't see why you don't see that it makes much more sense to relate pieces of an idea to yourself and your ideas, instead of setting them against it. Oh, you'd think, "How could this be possible while my own ideas are still possible?"

You seem to like taking peoples' words out of context. Can you not implement some of their ideas into your own, and not be so incredibly defensive, thinking a response is ONLY attacking Christianity? Can you see that a person's responses only escalate to that point when you force the concept of God onto them, thereby forcing them into a debate or to defend themselves?

Belligerent Christian.

Some people love to hijak the topic. Best defense is to ignore them and continue on the conversation. Soon, they will get bored and move on. It takes a while for the new members to catch on to the topic blockers.

someone asked me these questions on the basis of my computer programmed world HYPOTHESIS:

QUESTION:if we are indeed inside a computer system then,how can it go on for such long time?

ANSWER:I think what you"re talking is wrt this system.ie within this system,but look from point of view of person who programmed this world.time is not a problem.it is because of our limitations(since time is a limitation for us) but think without the boundaries of this system.then your doubts will melt away.


QUESTION: inside this world god also would have limitations.or software that he inserts would also have this world's limitations,then how is able to overcome these?

ANSWER:ever heard of cheat codes?well when i design something they"ll come handy in case of emergency.

any inputs would be welcome.bye!

Nothing to meddle,(just for information)

"GURUS" in sanskrit are teachers.
in "GEETA" these gurus were given place next to god.
Equating "GURUS"="VIRUSES" is an insult!
:mad:
i hope you understand as i respect teachers a lot.
bye!

Nothing to meddle,(just for information)

"GURUS" in sanskrit are teachers.
in "GEETA" these gurus were given place next to god.
Equating "GURUS"="VIRUSES" is an insult!

i hope you understand as i respect teachers a lot.
bye!

Could you elaborate on that please.

Love

Jan Arden.

Quite simply Guru in sanskrit is a word that refers to teacher.he is given place next to God with what he preaches and practices.in olden Indian period there were no schools,instead there were whats is called an ASHRAMS,where children of kings used to come for studying and learning through practical experiences.a typical class would consist of a story and then these gurus would ask question about what moral lesson was learned from tha story.various othr things like fighting with swords and other things were taught.in all it was an alrounf=d development of charracter.the gurus were respected a lot.Even their feet were considered to be worthy of something or the other.these ASHRAMS were mostly in midst of jungles ,for peace etc.
these gurus at the end of the schooling asked for something to give(from students,its a word i think(forgive me about my spellings)--called GURUDAKSHINA).in epic poem MAHABHARATAthere was this guy called who knew a lot about archery.he was the best student,he had learned from his guru(who was a proficient one).Then there was other.his name was Eklavya exactly.he learns archery by himself by just stealthily watching his lessons(guru's).the other guy who had learned from guru was his favorite student,but when watched eklavya he thought he might defeat this guy as eklavya was too good.it is rumored that lord KRISHNA the prominent god-figure of hindus,directed him later that since eklavya will be against the humanity(as he senses the future)so just stop him.guru then asks eklavya to give his own THUMB.and eklavya gives it to him as GURUDAKSHINA.such is the power of teachers in Indian mythology as stated.
when someone at that early period can give teacher respect,i am sure to equate gurus to viruses was an insult.!!and drove me mad.no its not that i disagree with my teachers,but i respect them for the knowledge they give to me.for the knowledge has equipped me discuus,to prove,to know my surriondings better.

for more info on eklavya look at:
www.boloji.com/mahabharata/06.htm
for further info on mahabharata:just do a google search,it"ll give you great links.

bye!.

Thanks guys for your contributions to this section. It is running pretty skimpy these days. Please post more...

Thanks again and happy posting.

Zion…

…I understand what you are saying.

They are put next to god, they are to be worshipped like God, in the same way a that if the president was not able to visit his counterpart in another land, but sent his, the deputy, is to be treated on the same level as the president, not that he is president.
In the same way, one who devotes his life in the service of God, is to be respected as though respecting God, but he is not God, and a pure devotee would be the first to tell you that.

Love

Jan Ardena.

Originally posted by kmguru
Thanks guys for your contributions to this section. It is running pretty skimpy these days. Please post more...

Thanks again and happy posting.
Hi KM,

thanks for starting the thread.i want this to go on.

also,can we add some more stories about famous epics like ramayana,mahabharata, and also add scientific...er... rather pseudo-scientific views?or is this post about something else?

Originally posted by Jan Ardena

In the same way, one who devotes his life in the service of God, is to be respected as though respecting God, but he is not God, and a pure devotee would be the first to tell you that.

Love

Jan Ardena.
Hi Jan,
agreed. about devotee not being a god,it is certainly true,what my point was that teachers cant be god but they are next to god,since they were preachers of good deeds,morals etc.that is how god's world goes on,i suppose.and even if a small guy tries to teach me something correct,i would respect him.in order to learn from a person you have to respect him a lot,then only you"ll add positive and cheerful attitude towards his explainations otherwise they"ll turn out to be all RAD.

bye!

Hi zion,

You can add anything you like, start a new topic or expand this current topic...

I am looking for some contributions from vedas and other related historical documents that has advanced technology, thought processes and applicable to our todays society, science and technology. There are a lot of stuff out there that does not reach our neck of the woods because of language problems (translating from Sanskrit to English). In the past two hundred years, most translations concentrated on philosophy and religion and not science and technology. There is a giant book (Veda) that is a medical pharmacopia. Another one discusses Yantras (machineries) that the ancients used and so on....yet it defied translation then, perhaps because the technology described is too far ahead than the translation period of say 1945.

Just before WWII, Germans combed the countryside of India looking for recipe for gizmos and gadgets to get a competitive edge - especially Max Muller Institute....

So, go for it....

Hi KM,

Right now making notes for Vimanas ,but i suppose that will be more accurate for Past civilization thread.as for Vedas well i am trying to collect info,especially from Rig vedas,about the same (VIMANAS).i would like Yogamojo to give some of his info on the topic,as he knows a lot about historical evidences.

bye!

The Hindu philosophy(the original one as opposed to be created by people of India themselves)is very flexible one.this fact is illustrated by the holy lord of hindus viz KRISHNAhimself.he during his lifespan,preached one important thing:

A lie is not a lie if spoken for welfare of this world.

he not only preached it but practised it.KRISHNA as it is rumored was a god just like Jesus who had descended as an avatar to destroy evil.from the very begining he has illustrated this fact.
like for example once during MAHABHARATA KRISHNA had sensed that if this guy DRONACHARYA who was guru of all the fellows in fighting (the one i mentioned above who also took EKLAVYA'S thumb)would continue to fight like that their own army would loose and devils will win the war.sensing that he tries out a tactic.he tells DRONACHARYA during the war itself on the battlefield,as rumored that his son has died in the war,his name was ASHVATHAMA(HOPE I SPELLED CORRECTLY),which was actually the name of an elephant who had died during the war,so drona is depressed,and sits down to take a nap,meanwhile Krishna orders to kill him during his nap,as he poses a threat to this world.he is killed.
there several other interesting stories regarding Krishna that i found on web.like for example, like lord senses himself that A guy called KARNA during mahabharata was another one who could be threatful.it is rumored that karna used to go for PRAYERS every morning,after his prayers if you ask him for any favor he never will deny.so the lord goes to the venue in form of a begger and asks him to give all of his weapons.and most importantly a special weapon that is being described as sonic bomb.at battlefield shortly he is killed by krishna,himself.

bye!

KM,

about medical thing,a popular treatise written by an author named CHARAKA gives detailed botanical descriptions of plants(some 5000 plants approximately)out of these,the ones useful to man,have been singled out and their uses have been studied and written in depth.this study and usage of plants is still being used for curing various diseases's roots without any side-effects,the science is calledAYURVEDA.this is now becoming popular in fashion world,to be used in perfumes and other costmetic accessories,sice it has no side-effects.

other treatise example by ARTH SHASTRAwritten by Kautilya gives detailed desciptions of monetory policies,budget making etc.the author is popularly known as CHANAKYA.

bye!

*Originally posted by spankyface
Can you not implement some of their ideas into your own, and not be so incredibly defensive, thinking a response is ONLY attacking Christianity?*

Aside from the issue of incorporating nosense into my own ideas, who is even attacking Christianity in the first place?
You'd have to know what it is to attack it.

*Can you see that a person's responses only escalate to that point when you force the concept of God onto them, thereby forcing them into a debate or to defend themselves?*

So, who exactly is on the defensive?
Earlier you were saying it's me, and now you're saying it's whoever I talk to.

If everyone is on the defensive, then who exactly is attacking?

*Originally posted by zion
Equating "GURUS"="VIRUSES" is an insult! *

No, it isn't.
Gurus cause confusion, just like viruses.

*Originally posted by kmguru
Thanks guys for your contributions to this section. It is running pretty skimpy these days. Please post more...*

Thanks, I'll see what I can do.

*Originally posted by Jan Ardena
They are put next to god, they are to be worshipped like God*

I guess that means that whatever god is responsible for gurus, is pretty low to the ground.

*Originally posted by kmguru
I am looking for some contributions from vedas and other related historical documents that has advanced technology, thought processes and applicable to our todays society, science and technology.*

OK.
---The Supreme Lord said: I am death, the mighty destroyer of the world, out to destroy....---
(BG 11.32)

I guess you're toast.

*Originally posted by zion
"A lie is not a lie"*

Sounds like a lie.

Hi zion:

This morning, I talked to an Indian Biochemist who said that Indian BioTechnology sector is advancing at a rapid rate. They are going to review the old texts and bring them upto date with the new technologies available today. Hopefully we will find some new medicines for tough viruses and bacterias...

Link to Bhagvad Gita Organization for reference: http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/

Zion ...

Can you imagine if we scripted that to a stage play? We'd chase people out of the park with it. Of course, representative reality is always a little scary. Also, you can expect mixed reviews. On the one hand, the general audience will be split down the line of sympathy versus confusion. The specific audience, as such, has no chance whatsoever of comprehending it. Art, like anything, exists in the world for him to ridicule; by condemning everything, he hopes to raise his own stature in his own eyes.

If there is a God worth the slightest fraction of Biblical faith, It will soon take mercy on the world and cause such revelations as to explain in the poster's mind what the problem is; at that time, it will be up to the poster to accept God's understanding or seal the deal by calling it Satan.

In the meantime, supremacist crap like you've observed being injected into this topic is the best that brand of religion has to offer. This thread is on a good pace; don't let an idiot with a half a brain-cell take it off that track.

Besides, I wouldn't attribute that evil laugh to him; Hooked on Phonics hasn't prepared him for that sort of abstraction.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

That was one of the greatest short message that i ever got...i feel that you"re absoultely correct...it would be ridiculus to waste such a great thread of KM for that person we are referring to,erm...you know:D.so i am deleting all of my posts regarding him and so forth,so as to stop this stupid discussion in between.i respect KM too much(i still dont know the reason!) so i would never like to spoil his thread like this.

bye and thanks for a great thought provoking reply...
:)

kmguru,

What's your Religion? If you have one... or if you have many...

You posted this link...
http://www.crcsite.org/KabalisticPrayer.htm

Thanks very much for it... it'll help me a lot!!! :D

I like it... the Bible don't explain how exactly faith works...
I guess the old Bible did so, because the kaballah is Jewish... and those things were in the old Bible...
Someone got it out of there probably because of Christianism, opposed to Judaism...

I've heard that the old Bible had a diagram of the Tree of Life with all the 10 sefirot...

Here's a link: http://www.mystae.com/restricted/streams/scripts/sefirot.html

There is an eleventh misterious sefirot... I got a link about it too... but it's in Portuguese... You can see it in the diagram though...
http://www.estrelaguia.com.br/bin/pg_dinamica.php?id_pag=127

Love,
Nelson

KM follows Sanatana Dharma i think.am i right KM?



bye!

Yes, zion, truthseeker:

I do not have a religion. I follow a way of life. The methodology is called Sanatana Dharma. Do a search on that within sciforums - you will see some of my postings. The method has been developed by old Rishis close to Vedic period (8500 BC). Several years ago, a friend of mine got heavy into Kabalah. I was surprised to find too much similarities with old Hinduism. So I concluded that perhaps old Judaism and old Hinduism belong to a common group of people, perhaps about 6000BC.

Modern Hinduism has been diluted by too many Rishi-wanabees. But lucky for us, unlike other religions, todays Hindus do not fight against the source (I ran into a Thai student who insisted that Buddha was Japanese)

Peace

I was surprised to find too much similarities with old Hinduism. So I concluded that perhaps old Judaism and old Hinduism belong to a common group of people, perhaps about 6000BC.

Yes... it's true...
Actually, many, with not all Religions are connected. They are actually the same with different perspective and/or different ways... ;)

This is the old Religion. They all have the same source. God is within us... it's why we have those inspirations. All of them say that God is within and around us. All of them describe God in the same way. What changes is the perspective, the language and the culture: the background.

There is no different Truth... only different perspectives... ;)

Love,
Nelson

Saw on the net, posted in another thread:

Hindu and Celtic Culture Are One
Druuis Belenios Ategnatos
As humanity begins to break free of the Dark Age caused by Christian Europe’s conquest (military, political and cultural) of much of the world, it becomes obvious that the history taught by their culture leaves much to be desired. This includes the history of Europe itself which also had its own Christian invasion, conquest and colonization. Finally, scholars within Western culture are beginning to recognize what the scholars and other leaders of traditional societies have been saying all along, for many centuries.

I am going to briefly describe some of the latest findings regarding Indo-European culture. Some of this is theoretical. Some of it is proven to exacting standards. In the interest of brevity, I shall not attribute the following information to the proper academic form. Much of the material used is yet to be published, and is cutting-edge, but should become available soon.

My particular topic is the relationship between the Celtic peoples of Europe, their origin, their relationship with the Vedic culture, and a few other relevant facts and theories.

The Celtic peoples are defined for the purpose of this article as referring to those people who in the past spoke a language of the Celtic branch of the Indo-European language family and also lived according to the ancient culture considered to be that of the speakers of Celtic as based upon Celtic traditions and stories and on archeology. Archeological and linguistic evidence traces them to the Danube river valley in Europe back to around 6000 BCE, and further back to the region of the Aral Sea of Central Eurasia. In Western China in particular, there is much evidence for a culture of people who physically looked like the Celts of Europe until the Turkic Uighur people and others moved into the region about the eighth century. Mummies with European features have been found in that region going back to 1500 BCE.The occasional red hair or green eyes found in that and neighboring regions is taken as evidence that these people related to the Celts were absorbed into various people still living in the areas in question, including Xinjiang, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Tibet and Nepal. Interestingly, I know a person of Irish ancestry who converted to the Sikh religion, and in his turban, he is sometimes mistaken for a northern Indian by Indians. It is also said that Genghis Khan had red hair and gray eyes; I have even read reports of tribes of red-haired people in the steppes and deserts in or near these regions, from the eighteen hundreds.

In traditional histories of India like the Puranas and Brahmanas, it is pointed out that in addition to the kingdoms in northern India, there were kingdoms north of the Himalayas with the same culture as in India, which would be in the regions that we are considering for the Celtic peoples. Most important is the famous land of the Uttara Kurus, described as a spiritual paradise north of the Himalayas. Comparison of European Celtic culture with Hindu culture shows a large number of similarities between them. Some of these were shown in a two part article that appeared in the May and June issues of the magazine Hinduism Today. Therefore, we have cultural evidence to back up the traditions and the archaeology.

Religiously, these red-haired northern Vedic people are known to have some point taken up Buddhism. Certain traditional sources indicate that they learned Buddhism from the Buddha previous to Siddhartha Gautama, who was named Kashyapa. A Kashyapa rishi also appears as one of the oldest Vedic rishis and as associated with northern regions like Kashmir, that was originally called Kashyapa Mira or Kashyapa’s lake. Tibetan literature, I have been told, indicates that they learned their Buddhism, not from India, but from "Shamballa" which is placed exactly where these people lived.

However, the European Celts clearly practiced, and a few still do, more orthodox Vedic type religions, with similar traditions of chanting, rituals, deity worship, mantra and meditation, with direct parallels to most of the ancient and modern orthodox Hindu sects found in India. As such, it is theorized by some scholars that the two branches split because the Celts maintained the older dharma, whereas the people who stayed in the regions north of the Himalayas accepted Buddhism, perhaps from Kashyapa Buddha.

One of the hallmarks of Celtic culture is the use of the sacred Ogham (pronounced Oh-wum) alphabet by the Druuids, who are Celtic Brahmins. Many scholars believe that Ogham was only used by the Irish, and not by other Celts. However, this is clearly disproved by many Ogham inscriptions appearing in different places, including France, Iberia (Spain and Portugal), the Danube valley, and the Tocharian regioins. Furthermore, inscriptions of Ogham have been found in ancient sites in Japan, some of them megalithic. One Japanese scholar who studies these inscriptions and the sites they are found in believes that the inscriptions indicate that some of the Buddhist monks who brought Buddhism to Japan were Tocharians, or had maintained the use of the sacred writing system of the Tocharians.

There is also extensive evidence of many sorts that Celts crossed the Atlantic from Europe to North American millennia ago, long before the Viking excursions into North America, who perhaps followed Celtic routes. The evidence is archeological, epigraphical, linguistic, folkloric, among other forms. American Indians with more European type features were reported by early European colonists into the region.

There is much more that could be told, it will have to wait for another time. I must apologize for any errors or omissions’ this article is an imperfect attempt to review a wide range of relevant information in a limited space.

This information has inspired the beginning of a move for unity among Hindus and traditional Celts, as branches of the same culture. Any readers interested in more information in this area are invited to correspond with the author at:

Aballonas
PO Box 120149
Staten Island NY 10312- 0149
The following are some of the main scholars working on the issue of Celtic and Hindu commonality and history: David Frawley, M.G. Boutet, Professor Yoshida, J. Monard, and Alain LeGoff. Many thanks to them and any others whom I may have missed.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

kmguru,

Tibetan literature, I have been told, indicates that they learned their Buddhism, not from India, but from "Shamballa" which is placed exactly where these people lived.

The lost spiritual city!?!?
... Wow...!

However, the European Celts clearly practiced, and a few still do, more orthodox Vedic type religions, with similar traditions of chanting, rituals, deity worship, mantra and meditation, with direct parallels to most of the ancient and modern orthodox Hindu sects found in India.

Do they still exist...?

One of the hallmarks of Celtic culture is the use of the sacred Ogham (pronounced Oh-wum) alphabet by the Druuids, who are Celtic Brahmins. Many scholars believe that Ogham was only used by the Irish, and not by other Celts. However, this is clearly disproved by many Ogham inscriptions appearing in different places, including France, Iberia (Spain and Portugal), the Danube valley, and the Tocharian regioins.

I have a link about it... but it's in Portuguese...
I don't think you will understand... :
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/3502/ogham00.html


I guess ALL Religions have connections...
But get all of them together is pretty hard...
Where did you see this thread?

Love,
Nelson

Posted by kmguru:
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees & the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Ummm...
In other words...

Matthew 11:25-26:

"25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto children.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. "


Matthew 18:1-5:

"1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me."


You, Jan Ardena and me should gather together to mix "Hinduism"
with Christianism... ;)

I've already done Christianism with Taoism. We could try get Christianism, "Hinduism" and Taoism alltogether... :)

Love,
Nelson

AMEN...

In my travels over the last 30 years, all over the planet, I have met many spiritual people. At their level, no verbal discussions are necessary nor the name of the religion they officially belong to - make any difference. They are all the same. These great spirits have made peace with their inner-self and are one with the universe. When you talk to them, you feel the energy, the humbleness and just joy - it is difficult to describe....

I remember, while I was a student, I went for a summer job in Chicago (early seventies). I was having some personal problems. I was taking a walk to clear my head when I saw a catholic church nearby. I walked in - there was no one inside. I just sat inside (the worship area). It was a very old church. So you can just feel the energy and calmness. I soaked up as much energy as possible (a la The Celestine Prophecy). About the time I was ready to walk out, I saw an older gentleman (a priest) walk up to me to greet me. I was thinking, "I am not officially a Christian or Catholic, but I felt the need to be here at this moment, I hope he does not mind". I did not say a word to him. He said " I understand. For you, the Lord's house is always open. Go with his blessings." I acknowledged him by bowing a little, and then walked out all refreshed. I left thinking, did he read my mind or what!

Next day I got a cushy job...the universe works mysterious ways...

kmguru,

In my travels over the last 30 years, all over the planet, I have met many spiritual people. At their level, no verbal discussions are necessary nor the name of the religion they officially belong to - make any difference. They are all the same. These great spirits have made peace with their inner-self and are one with the universe. When you talk to them, you feel the energy, the humbleness and just joy - it is difficult to describe....

Where!!!?? Please tell me!! :cool::)
I just wished to stay in this state...
Do you know their names, where they are... I need to talk with this kind of people... :)
I'm ready to get out of here... I'm pretty tired... the Universe is calling me... (already two spontaneus OBEs... ;))

...a la The Celestine Prophecy...

Did you read it? :D

Love,
Nelson

Km,
most of the seriously involved people(with relegion)who can actually perform the so-called miracles will never talk or meet you.

I"ll give you a classic example of this.
i once went to a place called Shivanna (a village in india).it was not even a proper village(it's in Rajasthan and i dont know how developed it is right now)but back then it was just a common village connected with a shrubs and bushes jungle of a sort.
Under a Banyan tree used to sit a saint known as Shivanna Maharaj.he was different.there's a story that is popular about that man.everyday whenever he felt the need he could perform astral projection.he could shape shift (in that OBE)to a tiger.once some of his students and couple of tourists despite his telling,tried to follow him to jungle(Grandpa was one of them)they say him sit down under a tree and suddenly saw him dead.(yes! he died completely,no heart beat whatsoever).no one had ever seen a lion or a tiger in that place,(it was a desert for christ sake!)then a lion suddenly came out of nowhere and left all the students form the site and sat inside a temple for a while.

many people had in fact reportedly seen him do this many times.


anyways,when we first went to meet this guy,he was blind(his age was over 100)he had his black hair coming...you know you could say he was <b>REAL</b> old.so this guy started talking to my grandpa as if he knew him.he told him many of grandpas personal life things that grandpa barely remembered.
so what i mean is,those guys who are really special,or those who serious about spirituality will not be seen in sci-forums discussions,they"ll be at an abondoned or an isolated place.


thanks for sharing great experience.


bye!

I am a little busy on a project deadline. Will post some interesting stuff later. Thanks.

Hm, I gotta get down and read all of this stuff in the eastern relig section. No hot blooded people here...:D

Once in a while some born-again idiot jumps in here. Like they say, if you hit a brick wall, go around it. So those who post here know that and we just move around the post. There is no real benefit in fighting...

Anyone here a Hindu? Just curious. It seems to be a nice religion, I never hear any horrible breaking news from that part of the world.

Or maybe I missed it. Anyhow, I'm curious about it. What is the central philosophy behind it? Anyone wanna enlighten me? (note I'm just curious, I am still atheist and no plans to switch yet)

Read all the posts in this section...you will get most of it. Hinduism is a mixture of philosophy that goes back to pre-aryan days. There are so many facets that it is difficult to get an arm around it. After reading the posts, if you have some questions, may be someone will answer or debate....

KMGURU/ I was baptised a christian, but now i practice hinduism i find it more peaceful to the mind and body/ i practice a lot of other eastern practices, but as a religion hinduism seems to be for me

Blastoff/ You are welcome.

I have a feeling that Hinduism is a multilayered system of knowledge. The more you peel, more stuff that surfaces that is good to the latest scientific thinking and will continue that way for may be another 2000 years at the present level of our technological growth.

Even educated Indians have difficulty understanding the deeper aspect of that knowledge base - such as Yoga of Knowledge (Gyana Yoga).

Thank you for your welcome kmguru i also practice buddhism, the path of enlightenment.

Here are some books on the subject. I have the last two books. The Hinduism explanation in the last book is very interesting.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0028642279.01._PE30_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpghttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/0028641701.01._PE30_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpghttp://images.amazon.com/images/P/0028642082.01._PE30_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Well, India is picking up since this posting, oh...boy...how quick the wind blows....:D

What does that mean!!!???

Hello,
I am new here, but the topic Hinduism is not new. Like Christianity, there is no Dogma, or Set Philosophy or Certen Religious Principle to be followed in the Hinduism. It is ok to be Eathiest or Mono-Theist or IshtDevaradana. The most Important Facts are Dharma and Karma, Dharma is Sanathana Dharma. Karma is the Action and Reaction which is Each Action there is Equal and opposite reaction, Physicaly mentaly and spiritually. The bottom line is to Get Mukthi from this Samsara Sagaram of cycles of Deaths and Births, which is Liberation. It is ok to give pain to some one else, you will also go through the same situation of pain may be even more because every thing we do is a seed and is growing even pain, every action is a seed and reaction can be a tree, so think before you do, that is the same as Jesus Tecahing treat others the way you wanted to be treated by others.

Hello,
I am new here, but the topic Hinduism is not new. Like Christianity, there is no Dogma, or Set Philosophy or Certen Religious Principle to be followed in the Hinduism.
there are certain religious principles presented in the vedas to be followed by certain persons

It is ok to be Eathiest or Mono-Theist or IshtDevaradana. The most Important Facts are Dharma and Karma,

Dharma is Sanathana Dharma.
there are two dharma's - sva dharma (dharma pertaining to the body, eg man woman brahmana sudra etc) and sanatana dharma (dharma pertaining to the soul ) - it is very difficult to talk about sanatana dharma without reference to monotheist principles, hence this statement (amongst many more that lead to the same conclusion) in Bhagavad gita

BG 18.66: Abandon all varieties of religion (dharma) and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.

Karma is the Action and Reaction which is Each Action there is Equal and opposite reaction, Physicaly mentaly and spiritually. The bottom line is to Get Mukthi from this Samsara Sagaram of cycles of Deaths and Births, which is Liberation. It is ok to give pain to some one else, you will also go through the same situation of pain may be even more because every thing we do is a seed and is growing even pain, every action is a seed and reaction can be a tree, so think before you do, that is the same as Jesus Tecahing treat others the way you wanted to be treated by others.

another important teaching of jesus is that one should worship god, since good acts alone are not sufficient to grant liberation (in other words there are two things happening here - good acts tied in conjunction with worship of god grant liberation - worship of god without acts of goodness symptomizes material contamination of the performer and acts of goodness without worship of god is simply another aspect of samsara - ie one will have to take birth again in the material world to reap the results of one's previous material piety)

just a thought, from a purist perspective, KM, i dont agree with people who measure up everything they read / study about hinduism or any other spiritual thought with science. Its a different matter of discussion that anything related / connected with what your senses percieve or is connected to this world is nothing but ephemeral, but neverthless; I think it is inappropriate to measure two things up, they are like apples and oranges...

Other thoughts, I also would like others to consider this ... instead of reading Hinduism, the short guide, or some dummy guide o Hinduism, (i'd prefer to read Head First Hinduism if it ever comes, (yea right i am a J2EE person)) or even works of adi shankaracharya , one should read direct translations of vedas and upanishads; well, Mainly upanishads. Just translations and not commentaries etc. This is because when you read the scriptures yourself, you will know the absolute words...I mean its like saying read Learn Bible in 24 hours, instead of reading the Bible itself... come on! ... i think you get the picture.

Personally i have never read These interpretive commentaries written by shankaracharya, i think upanishads and Bhagwat (which is essentially culmination of Upanishadic messages and how a Karm yogi can incorporate them in a grihast (gree hast)(a life in society with a wife etc.) stage.

Notes on Pronunciation, ok so heres the deal, Brahman is pronounced as Brahm (or Bh (spoken together almost) -rum). I dont know why they use this stupid spellings.

Rick

BTW, my apologies for being so direct... just some thoughts here and there... (and yeah... may be i am spending too much time at the super market checkout lines so i am crrrazyyy... so forgive me :) )


Rick

On the otherhand, through science we get our true knowledge about the universe. Without it, we are nothing but Dolphins...:)

well i dont wanna bark up the wrong tree, but anyways are you familiar with Absolute truth eastern philosophy (just a question, no offense).

Now that we are at it,
true knowledge is empirical knowledge, but both true and false knowledge are manifestations, so in a way absolute truth (Brahm) transcends both. ;)

I can score a 2 ft put too ;)
:)


Rick

Yes, Humans can not absorb Absolute Truth...and yes, lack of knowledge is part of that truth but would not lead to any understanding except that there is a knowledge gap.

...that is because, our brain is still evolving...think about another 100,000 years or as in Babylon 5...another million years (becoming Vorlon like or better!)

Yes, Humans can not absorb Absolute Truth...and yes, lack of knowledge is part of that truth but would not lead to any understanding except that there is a knowledge gap.

...that is because, our brain is still evolving...think about another 100,000 years or as in Babylon 5...another million years (becoming Vorlon like or better!)
No I disagree.....humans can absorb the absolute truth....and when they do thats when they achieve the ultimate happiness....

Well, if the disagreement makes you happy...who am I to complain? :D

Don't worry, be happy.....

Well, if the disagreement makes you happy...who am I to complain? :D

Don't worry, be happy.....

Is this some type of coded message?

Ok, so i admit KM your putting me on through those words. :)

Humans can absorb absolute truth?

I am not speaking in derogatory terms, guys bear with me. I am merely defining things from a pure upanishadic perspective.

Humans --> bunch of embodied false egos who see Maya / illussionary world because of their own inherent notion of existance (that they are separate from brahm, therefore everything else must be separate and have their own existance).

Absorbtion -> empirically if absolute truth can be absorbed then why are we even here? (on eastern philosophy forum ) absorption is physical term and may not be acurate to define or relate to absolute truth.

I"lll give you guys an analogy to understand the idea. Its like Still your mind first so that you dont have any thoughts anymore. You concentrate on being closer and closer to any aspect of brahm (may be like spiritual aspect.. like for example Shiva (by spiritual aspect i meant pure mainifestaion in spiritual form of brahm... more on this later.) your Karmic action bores fruits, this time around your fruit is what you chose the spiritual practice (like stilling your mind etc) for. (blah! its futile to explain, i am not clear... or am i? :( )

Tait. Upanishad gives another analogy. You have a bow and an arrow. Consider your soul (false ego that you exist separate from brahm) as an arrow, bow as vedas and upanishads and yogic vidya and target as Brahm / a gunn(Quality) of Sagun (with qualities if theres such a thing)brahm. Now you have to hit that target .. (wow that is clear i think)

Rick

Bhagwat Gita is actually clear about the Truth, Absolute truth etc. When I was studying engineering, I had an opportunity to talk to a guru on Bhagwat Gita who had a science degree but a high school teacher turned a guru with a lot of desciples.

He gave standard answers to most students that most Indians believe. I had several debates with him. What he said made sense. Most people are like children in elementary school when it comes to spiritual knowledge and understanding. So, the explanation the guru uses must be at that level and not at a PhD level. For example teaching a kid about different colors, one does not use light spectrum, monochromatic light, mathmatics behind it, reflection physics, our perception and limitation in the light spectrum etc. Without science, one can not obtain the knowledge about infrared and full spectrum EMF stuff.

Krishna represented the Absolute entity (Biswarupa - the ultimate form), so he has the capacity of Absolute truth. A Gyana Yogi (Knowledge Seeker) understands the truth. But as you know, the Gyana Yoga is a life long process. So, by inference one can say that Absolute Truth can only be absorbed by the Absolute Entity that has the capacity of Biswarupa.

People have been debating over whether Knowledge is "a priori" or "a posteroi"...and that debate is not going to be over soon.

The bottom line is, if it makes you happy....

Bhagwat Gita is actually clear about the Truth, Absolute truth etc. When I was studying engineering, I had an opportunity to talk to a guru on Bhagwat Gita who had a science degree but a high school teacher turned a guru with a lot of desciples.

He gave standard answers to most students that most Indians believe. I had several debates with him. What he said made sense. Most people are like children in elementary school when it comes to spiritual knowledge and understanding. So, the explanation the guru uses must be at that level and not at a PhD level. For example teaching a kid about different colors, one does not use light spectrum, monochromatic light, mathmatics behind it, reflection physics, our perception and limitation in the light spectrum etc. Without science, one can not obtain the knowledge about infrared and full spectrum EMF stuff.

Krishna represented the Absolute entity (Biswarupa - the ultimate form), so he has the capacity of Absolute truth. A Gyana Yogi (Knowledge Seeker) understands the truth. But as you know, the Gyana Yoga is a life long process. So, by inference one can say that Absolute Truth can only be absorbed by the Absolute Entity that has the capacity of Biswarupa.

People have been debating over whether Knowledge is "a priori" or "a posteroi"...and that debate is not going to be over soon.

The bottom line is, if it makes you happy....
But Krishna taught people that anyone can attain a nature like his own and realize the absolute truth and attain brahm (the ultimate happiness), as did Gautama Buddha teach that anyone can be transformed into a vessel of light....its not anything at that people cannot attain...

"By becoming fixed in this knowledge, one can attain to the transcendental nature like My own. Thus established, one is not born at the time of creation or disturbed at the time of dissolution" (BG 14.2)

BG 14.2

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-14-02-01.gif

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-14-02-03.gif

Translation:

Taking refuge in this wisdom, attaining My divine nature, one is not reborn during the universal creation nor destroyed during the universal destruction.

Gautama used this to break the cycle of birth too.

But that does not say when that is possible if it is ever, nor understanding of Absolute Truth. One can not be a God in their lifetime. That job is already taken.

And you have to absorb that Wisdom first!

BG 14.2

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-14-02-01.gif

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-14-02-03.gif

Translation:

Taking refuge in this wisdom, attaining My divine nature, one is not reborn during the universal creation nor destroyed during the universal destruction.

Gautama used this to break the cycle of birth too.

But that does not say when that is possible if it is ever, nor understanding of Absolute Truth. One can not be a God in their lifetime. That job is already taken.
What? Anyone can become a siddha in this lifetime, in fact one of the main things Buddha taught people was that they could achieve enlightenment in this lifetime, and of the importance of free will.

You do not become God, rather you attain a nature just like God. So why can't you in this lifetime?

What? Anyone can become a siddha in this lifetime, in fact one of the main things Buddha taught people was that they could achieve enlightenment in this lifetime, and of the importance of free will.

You do not become God, rather you attain a nature just like God. So why can't you in this lifetime?

How many people you know or name in 20th Century, that attained a nature just like God and with the power just like God?

Just curious...

How many people you know or name in 20th Century, that attained a nature just like God and with the power just like God?

Just curious...
I don't know how many...but there probably were a lot of them....and also the 20th century is not that great of a time span in the scope of history....certainly nothing when you work with Hindu time scales...

I don't know how many...but there probably were a lot of them....and also the 20th century is not that great of a time span in the scope of history....certainly nothing when you work with Hindu time scales...

Hmmmm...who can argue with that belief system....:confused:

How many people you know or name in 20th Century, that attained a nature just like God and with the power just like God?

Just curious...
attaining a nature of god (eternity, knowledge and bliss) is distinct from attaining the power of god (omnimax)
just like a drop of salt water has the same nature as the ocean, yet the ocean has a greater potency than the drop

The nature of God - only those three or there is more?

Salt water has properties the same as salt water from ocean only if the drop came from the ocean. Making salt water in your kitchen from table salt lacks a lot of other chemicals. And that drop in the kitchen can not attain the properties of Ocean water without external forces.

its a joke KM. its a joke. you ask how many people in 20th century attained god like charracters. Well sir, i ask you this question, how many people gave up their stupid vanity, their ideas about having a "life", their ideas about being social, how many people truly performed spiritual practices (and that means chanting on any brahm's quailities for continuous period of time, and no i am not talking about some punk 1 hour time a day routine, i am talking years... may be a decade) HOW MANY?


The nature of God - only those three or there is more?


OMG , you need lessons seriously and if all your guys that includes Vital cannot answer that then may be some time later i could start a thread about Brahm vidya. (knowledge of brahm) unless you realize brahm, you will have no idea as to what i am talking about. Then only can you start practising those things.

Rick
Rick

if you guys need to know some stuff, Feel free to IM me. BUT PLEASE READ Upanishads (AND NO COMMENTARIES Please, that include adi shankaracharya, just read translations, carefully.)


Rick

IM :::: xxfmulderxx @ AIM

Rick

God / ishvara is just a quality of brahm ..., my apologies for so many replies, doing 6 things at once, took a look at sciforums.,.. you guys are turning me own to teach here apparenty ... :)

HOW MANY?

NONE? :confused:

right.

The nature of God - only those three or there is more?
there are innumerable qualities, but they are sub categories of those three

Salt water has properties the same as salt water from ocean only if the drop came from the ocean. Making salt water in your kitchen from table salt lacks a lot of other chemicals. And that drop in the kitchen can not attain the properties of Ocean water without external forces.
I thought it was clear I was talking about a drop from the ocean vs the ocean

attaining a nature of god (eternity, knowledge and bliss) is distinct from attaining the power of god (omnimax)


OK...forget the power of God. How many people are Enternal and have full Knowledge of the universe?

Bliss? What is that?

There is a word for these thing - IMPROBABLE

Pseudoscience is just a click away :D