Hike Taxes, Hemorrhage Jobs

President Obama, and many on this site, are fond of recommending a steep hike in taxes as the cure for our economic troubles. Well, the states have been described as laboratories of democracy. Let's look at the recent experience of Obama's home state, Illinois.

Illinois is a blue state. So hiking taxes when budgets got tight wasn't very tough. What happened next?

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Businesses are fleeing Illinois for more friendly climes such as, well, anywhere. My own state of Indiana has been happy to welcome several such businesses.

So, why would enacting these sort of policies on a national scale be any more effective than what we've seen in Illinois?

 

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Oh boy, more right wing nonsense from dubious sources.

 

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for christ sake, what do you want mad? an increase in economic activity or balanced budget because right now they are mutually exclusive

If you cut goverment services you decrease economic activity
if you cut tax you increase ecomic activity but you decrease goverment funding so therefore you decrease the revinue side of the buget.

So what do you want? the testical suckers want to bring the buget in to surplace no matter what which means increasing tax and cutting services which will DEFINITLY reduce economic activity but thats what the right want right

 

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When the cheerleaders wore blue ribbons, the football team won. They should always wear blue ribbons, so that the team will always win!

 

That is not at all right . Government services have nothing to do with economic activity . That is exclusionary activity . For one thing it don't take that many carpenters laborers and cement masons to build bridges and roads . Besides that all you light weight @#$%^&*()*&^%$#@ are not going to be building bridges . You didn't get college degrees so you can dig a ditch at the side of a road and if you planning on that money to stimulate the economy you live in La La land cause the workers don't make enough to stimulate a tourist stand in Yellowstone much less run the economic engine of a first world power corporation like the U.S.
To many hoops also . Consider this Administration is taking all the money. It is wealth going up in smoke . That is what I call it . The higher the administration cost the less there is for production of goods . See A problem there . Paper work reporting does not create wealth . It is a Liability . It don't pay the bills . It Is A Bill . Is there any one out there ? Do you hear what I am saying . Administration costs are an expense . They are escalating at unprecedented rates . What ever you are producing cost more because of administration costs . That takes wealth away . There is less and less pie to divide because of it . I know a lot of you think with employee mantality so this can be hard to understand . That pay check you get from your company for your staff time administering is costing big money and comes right off the top of the bottom line. In My cost brake down it is rolled right into profit and overhead . We abbreviate it to P/h . So we figure lets say 5% for overhead . Well that is your salary right there if you are an administrator . Now if the cost goes up so does the percentage cost of doing business . The more a business has to do in paper work the more it cost . I know around here our progressive Governance thinks . What the hell you just got to fill out form dash c49 and then cross check with d dash 53 the fill it out in triplicate so it goes to all 3 departments before we get back to you on viability of your proposal to do business any more cause we changed the law . Whats the problem . You don't have to watch cable T.V. tonight . Your the one that decided to have a business . You should know better . It don't cost you anything . Just fill out the forms before you turn that piece of wood into a cup .

O.K. Joe I know I blew it way out of proportion , but you can get jest .

Now you tell us why more administration costs would improve economic landscapes ?

Disclaimer : I know I was responding to you Asguard , but I don't expect you to fully understand markets in a free economy . Maybe you understand more than the credit I have just bestowed , but Joe holds him self up as a 500 club executive and it should be like breathing for him if that was truly the case like he has stated .< I Worked for a Fortune 500 corporation . We have a hard time believing it , but hey we try our best to believe in people . So I believe him even though his rhetoric does not quite jive . He would have more of a Steven Covey out look in my view . I am uneducated so I can't say if that is what they taught him at the university . So this is my explanation for calling out Joe in response to your post .

Joe please don't take it personal . This is not meant as a personal attack on you . In Fact I rather Like you in some odd unsavory way . Mainly cause you do stick to you guns . I admire that in a person

I take it back !! Governments do play a roll in free markets by incentivising niche markets and screwing up value of goods . .... Why does it cost 80 dollars a bolt . I have done some work for the government . You got know Idea of the red tape involved . 80 dollars a bolt is not enough to put up with the shit it takes to get the job done on time and on budget . Some of the penalties are extreme . Like clauses that state 200,000 for every day you go past your contract time. Those days are extremely stressful for the manager of a site. Caching Kaching Kaching . Shake rattle and roll were did the doe go . Penalties and fines

 

umm no, your wrong. Look at the economy of canberra as an example. There was an interesting speach in the federal parliment recently about how the last federal goverment slashing the public service effected canberra. a 10 percent loss in jobs in the public service lead to a 30% loss of jobs in canberra because of the flow through of those public servants pay. The greatest losses was in small business

It sent canberra into a recession inspite of the fact the rest of the country was doing quite well

 

That is not America dude . We are talking about U.S. business . You want to compare Iceland and japan too ? What is the favorite comparison for progressives Denmark I think . Bike riding and High rise urban development . Yeah that is the landmark of sustainable living . O.K. just to be fair I am going to go google Canberra and see what you are talking about .

U.S. don't rely on government services to run its economic engine . That is quite a stupid thought really . Maybe now that government has the monopoly on control of the markets . More of a strangle hold . Business lives in fear of what is coming next in the way of regulatory restrictions . That is why sit on the side lines . I understand this cause I am one of the side line sitters and until I can even begin to make a risk analysis I ain't doing shit . It volatile. To much uncertainty. I could find my self living in card board box in a heart beat . No fear cause I am conservative wid Me money . I would not like to see Me retirement get pissed away on trinkets or even worse Government waste . We could fire butt loads of federal Employees and I would not shed a tear , mainly cause you dirty bastards did not shed a tear for Me so fuckem .

O.K. maybe a few tear for the people i like . If you got a good heart and you lose you government non job I will cry cause I hate to see peoples lives displaced . Unlike some other people I know

Note on Canberra :
They should have never disband there National Capitol Development Commission. That is where they fucked up . Relinquishing control out of Local markets . They fucked up big time by doing that . There not in control of there own economic development any more so what do you get when you give up your freedom ( For you idiots out there Development don't mean building urban sprawl . It is a commission on economic development as a whole ) I could be wrong about Assie Land and the why they do business but Here In America it is about business development , not row housing in the middle of the desert . Part of there job on commissions like this in the U.S. is to attract business interest to relocate to there area . States are competing for businesses and you know what Canada of all places is getting there far share and seem to be economically on the rise . Fuck I think there dollar is worth more than a U.S. dollar for the first time in my life time . Why is business going to Canada ? Good Question . See if you can figure it out

 

The reason i use Canberra as an example is because its bloody ovious when talking about there because its the capital of Australia and was built and designed to BE the capital (so goverment is its main industry) but i bet i could find examples from the US as well. Why would your congressmen and women be so strong on campaining for goverment contracts in there electrotes if it made no difference?

Close a millatry base and see if it doesnt cause a MASSIVE drop in economic activity in the near by towns and cities. You might think it has no effect but thats crap, you dont think police spend money? (and other goverment workers)

 

Those are not the services I am talking About . I am talking about "ADMINISTRATION COSTS" and STIMULUS BOOTS on the GROUND bull shit of spending . Yes I know the effects of base closers as I am from Sacramento a prime example of Mather Air-force Base closing . Yes it was devastating to the community . It took some years but it rebound after the closer and it was not because of government spending. Quite the opposite. Government Spending in California did get out of control . Go get a job in California if you think that is not true . I wonder if Frag would like a job closer to his home in Humboldt County . He likes D.C. so no big deal .

So you are all for propping up the war machine are we . I thought you were liberal and didn't go all gong ho on the war Machine ?

I support cops and for some reason they are of the first to go so Administrators can keep there jobs . Fire Fighters well we need them but there kind of lazy if you ask Me .

Tavis I know I said I would not talk about the money you didn't pay Me . See I am getting better cause I didn't say you owe Me . Let it go Mike . O.K. Tavis the Corporation is officially shut down so you get a free pass . You don't owe Me anything. I am working on Me Anger Management still . I think doing pretty good

 

no actually im not, you could slash defence and increase the services with a net of zero job losses and a net benifit to the commnunity. For instance build goverment health care services which are free to the community (because the spending comes out of a reduction in defence expenditure), increases general health in community (and therefore productivity) AND because the doctors, nurses, orderlies, YES administrators, cooks, cleaners, resurchers, lab techs, radiologists, allied health care proffessionals ect ect, are employed and earning an income they will SPEND that income which flows through the economy.

This is what england did when they introduced the NHS and i belive that they didnt suffer the crash that other nations did post WW2 because insted of decreased activity it was moved to a different industry (the NHS)

 

Right now Cops are buying things they need only . Discretionary income don't exist cause of screwed up value systems like you . Are you not the one that land blasted the cops . A verbalized devaluation of the job at hand . I think you were one of the perpetrators in that verbal abusiveness that devalues cops. Cops need a raise Administrators need to go away and leach of someone else.

O.K. Me Administrator friends . Don't Hang Hillery Me . You will be no better than a Christian if you do . Oh Yeah O.K. Me Christian friends took offense. They say they are not that low . There pecking order is one above an Administrator. They are only as low as Ministrating . Ministering instead of Add or extra Ministering . Industrial Ministering .

Cool down . Don't be so serious . Life is short

 

devalued cops? what are you talking about? i have a huge level of respect for the police, i personaly work with SAPOL on a fairly regular basis

 

You are short on your history lessons . There depression came before the American Depression . The world Depression was staggered back in the day . We took turns . Not now and that is why it is way scarier now . Cause of the connections in trade. One falls and others fall right with it . Why do you think the stock market was so volatile last week . European markets and banks are in trouble is what I understood and that is effecting U.S. markets big time . Course you can be like the others and blame the tea party and that circus on the hill . I don't think the markets give to fucks about standard kick the can politics . They do care about future risk and certainty thou and it is not looking good at all . There is a growing loss of hope in the future . Why do you think people are fleeing to gold . There is no safe heaven is my conclusion.

O.K. here is question for you . If Government stimulates economic growth so much Why don't every body invest in government of there own free will . There is nothing to stop people from investing in Government ( I don't mean Bonds either . If it is so good you can donate to the bigger cause if you got the money . It will stimulate the economy buy your reasoning .


I don't take a stance on Health care cause I believe to many abuse the system whether it is free ( Nothing is free ) or not . People going to the doctor for every little ache and pain cause they can mentality . You have seen em clogging up emergency rooms every where . I seen em . with there Snot nosed kid with a cold begging for antibiotics that doctors prescribe just to get them out of there office

 

I guess it was some one else that started that thread about cops illegally searching and seizing . For some reason I thought you were one of the bad mouthers . Sorry if you were not . Don't sue Me for Slander K. I retract if you had nothing to do with that

 

the great depression which your talking about was preWW2 and WW2 was what ended it (because of goverment expenditure i might add), what im talking about is POST WW2 and i dont belive i said anything about the US. I was discussing the UK, the UK switched from spending x amount of tax $ paying for amunition and solders ect and put a significant portion of that money into the NHS and therefore kept almost full employment after the war. What the goverment spends money on is in part irrelivent because the people who recive the money go on to spend it and it cycles through the economy. Now sure some things have more benifits than others (health and child care for instance puts a 10 fold incrase into the economy acording to a british study)

I cant prove it but i doubt that defence would have anywhere near that level of economic benifit but *shrug*

Bankers, adervitising companies, tax agents and "city workers" cost the economy though

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/dec/14/new-economics-foundation-social-value

 

O.K. what ever . I heard this line before I posted the guys book and name on S.F. as a matter of fact . His book was based on no growth and How it made cities and towns money if they don't develop. Same reasoning going on here . Not that it is not true cause I think cleaners are under valued , but we don't decide value individually . What the mass majority spend there money on is what determines value . You can't change that and that is why a pair of blue jeans back in the day cost so much inside the iron curtain ( Unless that is an urban myth , Any Russians out there that can verify this would be helpful ) Tax Agents work for the government . If you mean an accountant then I am with you cause the tax code is way to complicated and caters to special interest and before you go get you panties in a bunch about corporations keep in mind non profits are corporations with special interests too


I believe it was the unifying cause that got us out of the depression not the spending on the military machine . Something to believe in . A goal so to speak . A unifying goal . I also think that the space program that Kennedy inspired did the same thing . To me you got to have an economic force to drive markets . Something to believe in . Micro Soft and the technology industry work for Clinton times and on up to the .com bubble bursting . Over inflated cause they were selling for more than the the business viability justified . A feeding frenzy . Like sharks smelling blood . So prices were driven up beyond viability of the companies. Then Housing Then For a short term Oil and now Gold . So what do we need to restore confidence in markets ? Uncertainty is not selling that well and I don't think it will any time soon . It was brought up on an Alien thread " What if aliens attack us ? Would we stop bickering and rally to defend the planet ? I think we would cause it would be a unifying effect like 9/11 did to Americans . Short lived euphoria akin to love sickness . Would we tire after a while and let the aliens take control of our lives in the end ? Maybe ? We seem to loss sight of the missions in life . We call it Mission creep . Where this and that sounds like a great idea and pretty soon you don't recognize the original idea . Big corporate dysfunctional boards do it all the time and loss sight of the business plan with there little pet projects that have nothing to do with the mission statement , but every thing to do with personal achievement . Mission Creep That is what it is called and government is the worst offender of mission creep . Cause there creeps

 

First, how is this even remotely related to the thread topic? Second, do you have any basis for your claims of increasing administrative costs? If so now is the time to show it. Third, just because you had difficulty working with government, others do not. In fact many find government work quite profitable. By the way, penalty clauses are fairly standard stuff especially in large contracts and are not unique to government. You find them all the time in private sector commercial contracts.

And everything else in that post was just a dump of irrational disconnected thoughts.

 

This is a straw horse - No "liberal" is suggesting the 67% increases in income taxes, what we want is a return to the Tax Rates under Clinton, prior to GWB's reductions for the super rich. Yes we (Warren Buffet included) want to increase the taxes on those making more than $250,000 /year.

I have not yet read the posts in this thread but may just kill thread based on the OP's false generalization of IL's facts to the US level as a trolling straw horse.

 

That could be true at times, but 100% of their cost is included in the calculation of GDP. Private sector activity is included in the GDP by the prices paid. Thus, 600 billion of Government cost is a certain 600 billion increase in GDP, even if all it buys is 300 billion of hole digging and 300 billion of hole filling. - Part of why, IMHO, GDP is very poor index of an nation's economic strength.

 

Why would in in state rise in income tax affect the country wide demand for tractors? More likely, this is when the federal stimulus money ran out.