View Full Version : Help me with this Calculus problem


HonorAndStrength
10-07-06, 08:59 PM
friend needed answer, its been solved now, ty

James R
10-08-06, 02:04 AM
What have you done so far?

Facial
10-08-06, 02:20 AM
Will you need to know the mass?

Zephyr
10-08-06, 04:23 PM
Which of Newton's 'laws' do you think might be useful in part 2?

Roman
10-08-06, 04:37 PM
What's tanh(x+C)? Is that supposed to be tan(x+C), or the tangent of [h(x+C)]?

Zephyr
10-08-06, 04:54 PM
tanh is the "hyperbolic tan" function.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/HyperbolicTangent.html

alyosha
10-08-06, 05:29 PM
For the second part, it looks like a differential equation that I either don't know how to solve or have forgotten how.

ma = F + kv^2

Where a, the acceleration, is the second derivative of the position function with respect to time, and v, the velocity, is the first derivative.

Roman
10-08-06, 05:50 PM
tanh is the "hyperbolic tan" function.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/HyperbolicTangent.html


Ugh.
Nevermind then.

D H
10-08-06, 08:09 PM
For the second part, it looks like a differential equation that I either don't know how to solve or have forgotten how.

ma = F + kv^2

Where a, the acceleration, is the second derivative of the position function with respect to time, and v, the velocity, is the first derivative.

I suspect you mean ma = F - kv^2. Air drag makes things slow down, not speed up.

Look at the mathworld web site that Zephyr pointed out. It has the answer to your question.

Pete
10-08-06, 09:47 PM
It could be correct, if it's an object being slowed by reverse thrust + parachute, or something.

D H
10-08-06, 11:08 PM
It could be correct, if it's an object being slowed by reverse thrust + parachute, or something.

If that were the case he wouldn't have got the tanh solution. That solution arises from m*dv/dt = F - kv^2.

alyosha
10-09-06, 12:24 AM
Hey, I didn't come up with the formula! heh.

D H
10-09-06, 06:52 AM
Hey, I didn't come up with the formula! heh.

Nonsense results arise if both F and k are positive. In particular, the speed will reach infinity in a finite time.

Equations of motion:
dx/dt = v
m dv/dt = F + k*v^2

with initial states at t=0 given by x=x0, v=v0

Suppose F,k are both positive. Define
v_c = sqrt(F/k)
t_c = m/sqrt(F*k)
u = v/v_c
u0 = v0/v_c
tau = t/t_c
Dividing both sides of the velocity equation of motion by v_c yields
du/dt = sqrt(k/F)*F/m + sqrt(k/F)*k/m*F/k*u^2
or
du/dt = 1/t_c*(1+u^2)
du/dtau = du/dt*dt/tau = 1+u^2
which has solution
u(tau) = tan(tau+atan(u0))
or
v(t) = v_c*tan(t/t_c+atan(v0/v_c))

The velocity goes to infinity as t -> t_c*(pi/2-atan(v0/v_c))

If k is negative, the trigonometric functions become hyperbolic functions by Osborne's Rule -- or just rewrite as m dv/dt = F - k*v^2

HonorAndStrength
10-09-06, 12:17 PM
edited : fixed now

Pete
10-09-06, 05:15 PM
Hi HonorAndStrength,
Replacing the whole original post is kind of bad form. It ruins the historical record of the discussion.
Adding a note after the original question would be better. Something like this:

Short question: find the integral of tanh(x + C) with respect to x.

Long question: given that the force on an object is F + kv^2, where F is some arbitrary (but constant) force, k is a constant coefficient, and v is the velocity of the object, find the distance the object has travelled after t seconds.

Edit: friend needed answer, its been solved now, ty