I can't find the equal and opposite reaction in this one. We have a segmented, or channeled cone. Mass is drawn into the small end of the cone, which is spinning rapidly. As the cone increases in diameter, the mass exerts a force against the cone's axial angle. This produces a force toward the small end of the cone. As the mass reaches the large end of the cone, it brakes in circular motion against a fluid resistance, and is shuttled back toward the small end for reacceleration. The linear acceleration of the mass can be reduced by putting a curvature in the path through the cone. And, there is always more mass in the cone than there is in shuttle or deceleration. The length and angle of the cone determine the ratio of the mass in acceleration over mass in deceleration.

Rough drawing attached.

What point can't you figure out the forces at?

Fluidity:

Is this device supposed to be self-propelling? i.e. do you think the apparatus will move in the direction of the small end of the cone?

This is a closed system, so it will not do that. I can't see any reason why momentum will be transferred in the forward direction. Moreover, if you're looking at rotation, something has to provide the initial rotation of the balls, so angular momentum will also be conserved.

I can't see where there is an equal and opposite reaction to the accelerative force applied to to the cone from the angular momentum against its interior surface.

If we keep denying that a closed system will work, just because it's closed, we wouldn't see one that would work even if it did.
Furthermore, is the system closed if the inertial mass leaves the system?

The cone is accelerated to a constant velocity. The mass enters at the small end. The angular momentum against the interior of the cone's surface provides an accelerative force toward the small end. The cone is channeled so that the mass must follow a straight line, like the lines I've drawn from the small end to the large end. The centripetal force of the mass pushes against the interior of the cone with increasing force as the radius increases. The torque applied to the cone is perpendicular to the force of acceleration, and the deceleration of the mass takes place in the same direction. The mass accelerates as it moves out of the cone, but there is always more mass in the cone under centrifugal force than there is in deceleration.

Originally posted by Fluidity
If we keep denying that a closed system will work, just because it's closed, we wouldn't see one that would work even if it did.
But there is an infinite number of physical setups that you could try and examine. Closed systems not moving is mathematically proven using newton's laws... so analyzing a system with thouse laws will yield the same result. It's redundant.

is the system closed if the inertial mass leaves the system?
No... then it's can be treated like an open system...

As for the equal and opposite, pick any point in the motion. Whatever force is on the ball, and equal/opposite force will be on the apparatus. The sum of all these forces will then be 0.

<i>The angular momentum against the interior of the cone's surface provides an accelerative force toward the small end.</i>

How?

<i>The cone is channeled so that the mass must follow a straight line, like the lines I've drawn from the small end to the large end. The centripetal force of the mass pushes against the interior of the cone with increasing force as the radius increases.</i>

And the cone pushes back with an equal and opposite force.

<i>The mass accelerates as it moves out of the cone, but there is always more mass in the cone under centrifugal force than there is in deceleration.</i>

The amount of mass is not important. The momentum tranfer is what counts. Less mass moving faster can have the same effect as more mass moving slower.

The angular momentum against the interior of the cone's surface provides an accelerative force toward the small end.

How?
<HR>
It is an inverted model of a car rolling downhill. In this case, the hill can move. The interior of the cone is a ramp. The vector of the cones angle and the angular momentum of the mass pushing against it add up to forward momentum of the cone.


The cone is channeled so that the mass must follow a straight line, like the lines I've drawn from the small end to the large end. The centripetal force of the mass pushes against the interior of the cone with increasing force as the radius increases.

And the cone pushes back with an equal and opposite force.
<HR>
Yes, the cone pushes back, in the direction of the small end.

Yes, the small mass can add up to the inertial opposite of a larger mass. But, the accelerative force of the cone is constant. The cone is actually channeled with a helix that decelerates the linear velocity of the mass, to optimize the angular momentum against the cone's surface.

I'm not saying it will work, James. But, I want to see how the energies cancel. Persol says find a force, and there is an opposite. But, the angular momentum of the mass adds to the linear velocity of the cone and the mass. But, there is always more mass in the cone than there is in deceleration.

Imagine a very long cone, that eventually turns into a cylinder. For a long period, it is a cylinder. The mass in the cylinder is neither under acceleration or deceleration, but it is moving out of the cone at a constant rate. There is MUCH more mass in the cone than there is in deceleration in this type of model.

It just begs me to find an optimization of the cone's length, the amount of mass, and the angle of its interior helix.

It is theoretically possible to have a constant 2000 units of mass in the cone, while only one unit of mass is in deceleration.

Draw a zoomed in top view of the ball in the track. Put arrows on there to show the direction the tube is spinning and the direction the ball is moving. Then I'll show you the equal and opposite forces. As of right now the question is still somewhat vague for me to tell you why they cancel. I can tell you that they will, but not exactly how because I'm not understanding the setup you have here.

EDIT: I'm working on a paper, so it might take me a while to get back.

The mass can be decelerated one unit at a time, while n units are under acceleration in the cone.

Drawing attached with 'force' lines drawn.