I've been carrying out a current events conversation on another BBS. The BBS is actually a music recording site, but has a current events section. It turns out that this site is a Christian site.

So here's a link to the argument...

http://www.clubclarkproductions.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Events;action=display;num=104939904 2

My question is...

Do most right-wing Christians have this kind of viewpoint?

Also, could an intelligent Christian post something about "the war on Iraq" to reassure me Christianity hasn't completely fallen into the toilet.

They sound like a bunch of kids, don't worry about them, hopefully they'll become wiser as they mature.

Well first you need to tell me who you consider Christian. I'm a Protestant, and the Roman Catholics are not Christians. They are Catholics. They have committed very nasty atrocities in the name of Jesus, which, when you look through the Bible would never have been sancantioned. If you agree with this, we can talk further.

Originally posted by Jerrek
the Roman Catholics are not Christians.

That is flat out wrong. Anyone who follows the teachings of Jesus, and believes him to be the savior, is considered to be a Christian.

They don't follow the teachings of Jesus. They think they do, but they don't. Jesus never commanded anyone to worship idols and statues and icons. Jesus never created "saints," nor did he ever command the church to do so. And a dozen other reasons.

They are Catholics. Not Christians.

Well first you need to tell me who you consider Christian. I'm a Protestant, and the Roman Catholics are not Christians. They are Catholics. They have committed very nasty atrocities in the name of Jesus, which, when you look through the Bible would never have been sancantioned. If you agree with this, we can talk further.


Im telling u people , Jerrek : highest stage of symbolism .

Represent 100 per cent

Originally posted by Jerrek
They don't follow the teachings of Jesus. They think they do, but they don't. Jesus never commanded anyone to worship idols and statues and icons. Jesus never created "saints," nor did he ever command the church to do so. And a dozen other reasons.

They are Catholics. Not Christians.

And you are a true christian? IIRC Jesus was all for helping out the downtrodden of society, and he certainly wouldn't be a fan of ppl like Ayn Rand and Machiavelli. I've seen just as many jesus-like people come from catholic sects, as from any other christian sect.

Given his statements, it seems likely that Jesus was a socialist.

Originally posted by jps
Given his statements, it seems likely that Jesus was a socialist.

No he was not a fan of big goverment helping the poor but the people to help them out of thier kind hearts.

Some day aliens will come to earth and they will think catholics practice ritual cannabalism. "Zorg.... whats all this business about eating the flesh of your savior?"..... "Sucky way to show your gratitude if you ask me." =P

Jesus supposedly said he was the son of god. Arent we all supposed to be the children of god?

IIRC Jesus was all for helping out the downtrodden of society Yes, and I do help other people. But it isn't the government's job to enforce that. I want to help who I want, when I want, how I want, with how much I want.

Given his statements, it seems likely that Jesus was a socialist. No.

Some day aliens will come to earth and they will think catholics practice ritual cannabalism. "Zorg.... whats all this business about eating the flesh of your savior?"..... "Sucky way to show your gratitude if you ask me." =P Then they are stupid. I'm sure you will agree with me that Christians and Catholics, when taking communion, do not actually consume flesh right? So there is no cannabalism. Instead, if you bother to read the Bible, you would see that there is a word there. "a symbol" It is a symbol of oneness.

Arent we all supposed to be the children of god? No

Jesus never commanded anyone to worship idols and statues and icons.

Whoa, Catholics do not worship idols or statues.

Originally posted by Jerrek
Well first you need to tell me who you consider Christian. I'm a Protestant, and the Roman Catholics are not Christians. They are Catholics. They have committed very nasty atrocities in the name of Jesus, which, when you look through the Bible would never have been sancantioned. If you agree with this, we can talk further.

And so many Roman Catholics will tell you that Protestants are not Christians. There are many Baptists who will tell you that neither of them are, and there are many other sects that will tell you all or some of the other sects are wrong. Why should we trust yours as to who the REAL Christians are?

A Christian is NOT somebody who follows the teachings of Jesus, or somebody who is kind and caring, or somebody who worships Jesus or God. A Christian can also be a polytheist, even a pagan. (obviously, a Christian cannot be an Atheist, but a Christian can be an Agnostic)

All one must do to be a Christian is believe that the entity (many disagree on what exactly this entity was) called "Jesus Christ" died as the ultimate sacrifice to the Judaic god for their sins. (some say, "to cleanse them of their sins"). Or that he left his material presence as an individual on Earth for their sins. The second is a better definition, really.

Heck. I see people being stupid every time I look out the window. Why cant aliens be stupid too?

I am sad to say the future may be more like "futurama" than "star trek".

I really don't understand why other christian sects put the catholics so much down. Afterall, they profess to study the same book??? That means that they differ in human interpretation aspects, and if it's human interpretations that they differ in, then it's merely points of view......

Just my opinion.

Originally posted by GB-GIL Trans-global
(many disagree on what exactly this entity was) called "Jesus Christ" died as the ultimate sacrifice to the Judaic god for their sins. (some say, "to cleanse them of their sins"). Or that he left his material presence as an individual on Earth for their sins. The second is a better definition, really.

Who is this Judiac god????? Judia means guidance. I thought god is the creator of human kind and universe.

Noone dies for noones sins. People are responsible entities that take responsbility for their actions. I'm sure people on death row would love your concept of Jesus though, maybe he can sit in the chair for their sins too.....rediculous concept unfit of Jesus or god.

By your defintion of a Christian, then Messianic Jews could be considered Christians. but they're not. An Jesus would have been a right-wing libertarian, if not an anarchist. :m:

Jesus was a submitter to god....Here never claimed to be christian or jew in the entire bible....I defy you to find a verse that says....

Here me O Israel, I Jeus am a christian, and all those that wish to avoid my daddy's wrath must be christians.

Helflores, look in your history book. JESUS WAS A JEW!

Who cares if he was cut or not? I don't!

Everyone has sins. And if I remember my Uncle Phillip telling me correctly, the sins of the father get passed onto the son if they aren't repented. Hows that for justice?

I really don't understand why other christian sects put the catholics so much down. Afterall, they profess to study the same book??? That means that they differ in human interpretation aspects, and if it's human interpretations that they differ in, then it's merely points of view......

You are correct. It's human opinion that has divided up the religions, not God. As history has shown us, certain topics pop up. How each of the chruches deal with them is different. One would allow divorce, the other would allow gays, the others would allow aboration but say no to capital punishment, etc. It's all really quite useless.

Whoa, Catholics do not worship idols or statues. They worship statues of Mary.

they profess to study the same book? No, Catholics have their own editted version of the Bible. The King James Version, as we know it, is not used by Catholics.

Noone dies for noones sins. Killing of a few religions here, aren't we?

An Jesus would have been a right-wing libertarian Agreed :)

Helflores, look in your history book. JESUS WAS A JEW! I think he knows absolutely nothing about Judaism and/or Christianity and is grabbing for air. Jesus was indeed a Jew.

Originally posted by Jerrek

I think he knows absolutely nothing about Judaism and/or Christianity and is grabbing for air. Jesus was indeed a Jew.

It's a she my blue or voilet haired premature egg yolk. I'll talk to you more when you grow up more......As far as religion, Mine and your creator will judge between us in the matters that we differ I guess....so shut your annoying yap. Next time, instead of insulting, just go and find a biblical verse showing that Jesus indeed proclaimed to be a Jew.

Show me one verse, where Jesus said:
"I'm a jew"

Good luck not finding it.

Maybe, just maybe, being born of Jewish parents makes one a Jew?

No my genious, that's what make ordinary people like you christians. Jesus was a an orginator, not a follower. And even oridinary folks have renounced their parents versions and chose their own beliefs....

Oh and I forgot, Abraham parents were pagans, does that make the friend of god Prophet Abraham a pagan by difinition...the list goes on.

That post made absolutely no sense at all.

Of course it does, you're just being slow. What I'm trying to say,, is that your parents religion have absolutely no influence on your religion. I gave an example of Prophet Abraham who was a follower of god. His parents were pagans, and we don't call him pagan Abraham.

The jews were mocking jesus at the time of his death by labeling him the King of the jews. Jesus came to show the jews that they were so off tract from the original message of believing in god that they needed reform. Jesus was not a jew or a chrisitian. He was a believer and follower of god...plain and simple...I hope he could come again and tell us all that.

heflores, you're confusing the religion, Judaism, with the race, Jews. Jesus was a Jew racially.

Jewishness is a race????:confused: :confused: I thought it was a diseace...just kidding. :D . No really, I'm simple like that, I think religions belong to god and because there is one god, it follows that there is one religion...The religion of god. All the other mess that have been convoluted over the years gives me a headache.

Jesus wasnt just a jew, he was a rabbi. Heck, he couldnt be christian as he cant worship himself. Before then the only major monotheistic religion was judaism.

They sound like a bunch of kids, don't worry about them, hopefully they'll become wiser as they mature.

Unfortunately, the main instigator, the administrator, is close to 30. Another member who posted equally intelligent posts was 40. Yes they seem close to middle school age.

Originally posted by Xev
Whoa, Catholics do not worship idols or statues.
The Pope says Mary worship is proper. The pope has bowed down and prayed toward many statues of Mary. A women dead in a grave.

Who is this Judiac god????? Judia means guidance. I thought god is the creator of human kind and universe.

I don't know. You tell me. I said "Judaic". Judaic, as an adjective, means of or pertaining to Judaism. :p

Noone dies for noones sins.

Hey, that's your belief, and I agree with you. However, according to Christianity, Jesus died to save humanity from having to pay for their sins by going to hell. Or something like that. Haven't you ever read Chick Tracts? Or at least the Bible? :p

People are responsible entities that take responsbility for their actions.

Christians generally take responsibility fo their actions, but believe that they won't have to pay eternally for their sins because Jesus payed for them by sacrificing himself.

I'm sure people on death row would love your concept of Jesus though, maybe he can sit in the chair for their sins too.....rediculous concept unfit of Jesus or god.

Hey, don't get mad at me. That's just what Jack Chick says. And all the other Christians I've ever met in my life. Of course, I personally think it is highly unlikely that God exists, and I believe that God does not exist (however I do not "know" this). I believe that it is possible that the individual today referred to as "Jesus Christ" existed at one time in history, but I think it highly improbable that he was sent to earth by the Judaic god on a mission.

Originally posted by hotsexyangelprincess
By your defintion of a Christian, then Messianic Jews could be considered Christians. but they're not. An Jesus would have been a right-wing libertarian, if not an anarchist. :m:

Messianic Judaism is a sect of Christianity. It's Christianity that still observes Jewish holidays and the Jewish holy book, etc.

Originally posted by Jerrek
They worship statues of Mary.

No, Catholics have their own editted version of the Bible. The King James Version, as we know it, is not used by Catholics.

Killing of a few religions here, aren't we?

Agreed :)

I think he knows absolutely nothing about Judaism and/or Christianity and is grabbing for air. Jesus was indeed a Jew.

Catholics generally do not worship statues of Mary. They use them as a vehicle for worshipping God.

The King James bible has portions removed too (although they are nearly all from the Old Testament).

And when did Jesus claim to be a Jew?

Originally posted by Jerrek
heflores, you're confusing the religion, Judaism, with the race, Jews. Jesus was a Jew racially.

There is no Jewish race. That's a myth.

Modern Zionists tend to claim that the Jewish race is descended from Israelites who fled Israel. Well, I've got news for you. The race isn't pure enough anymore. My mom looks just as much Anglo as the next person. I look Anglo too. I probably have a few ancestors from Israel, but there has been mixing, especially since the end of WWII.

Modern-day Israelites are descendants of, if not themselves, people with German, Russian, French, Polish, Hispanic, English names. Italian, Greek, Ethiopian, Arab, Tatar names. Quite a few changed their names upon moving to Israel, thus giving the illusion that they are really Israelites when it comes to race. However, Israelites weren't black. They weren't hispanic, or greek, or italian. They weren't russian, or polish, or german.

Racially, Jesus was an Israelite. Not a Jew. If anything, that was his religion. And perhaps it wasn't even that, maybe he was an Atheist or a Shintoist... :p

Sephardic/Genetic Jews and Arabs are of the same "race". Genetic Jews are Arabs, who shared the same genetic origin only yesterday in an anthropological perspective. Of course there is really only one single human race, with a wonderful variation of decorative styles on the same basic clever-monkey theme. Christians, ethnic Jews, and many others whose religions and cultures incorporate it, are still often caught up in racism, and sorely need to drop this silly destructive hangup.

The UT Shock Rifle smilie is cool! http://www.atypically.net/smilies/blaster.gif

In the meantime, this is an excellent topic going here. Strange, maybe we should hold more religious debates in the WE&P forum ... er ... um ...

BTW, just to revisit an old question and a part of the topic that should stay dead, I'm just curious: If Catholics aren't Christians, then why did God trust them to be essentially the vessel that brought Christianity ... well, through quite a bit?

I mean, it's not like Protestants have done a whole lot better; while the numbers are certainly lower, the scattered divisiveness and mutated forms of faith that have scarred the intervening years since the Reformation are at least equally disgraceful. But Catholics guided the development of Christian thought for centuries. If they're not Christian, why would God will such a thing?

And what's with the Bible? What, you lop out a few more books and call it even more official?

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:

Will the Real Cristian stand up plz...!

Catholics and Protestants fighting about the legacy of Jezus, Sunnits and Sji'its fighting about the legacy of Mohammed....

Originally posted by Jerrek
quote:Arent we all supposed to be the children of god?

No

actually that is quite wrong, Jesus himself said in the bible that we all are children of Jahve ;)

Christian is somebody who follow Jesus teachings; in this sense, catholic, protestant, orthodox, etc. are all deviant divisions, invented by human burocracy, and not sanctioned by Jesus.
Each of them have his own pet doctrines, which are not at all important; what is important, is what Jesus did and spoke.
I am not catholic, but I admire John Paul standing on the present demential fantasy named "eliberation" of Iraq;
No war is good, and with more wisdom and understanding all human problems may be solved in a peaceful way. The problem is not the religion -any one- but the human stupidity, of whom there is no escape, specially when it is combined with political propaganda, where everything is either white ("us") or black("them"), while in reality white and black do not exist, everything being a degree of grey.

Your average American Christian falls somewhere in the middle between the KKK and neo conservatives.

The KKK believes race is more important than religion

The neocons believe religion is more important than race

The white house hopes Billy Graham will appeal to both.

but $ (at all costs) reigns supreme.