Hello! I'm sure some of you will agree that there is no god. There is also no soul. I look forward to posting my discussions with you on various topics. To learn more, go to The Raelian Movement (http://www.rael.org) and download a free e-book starting with "Intelligent Design: Message from the Designers".

Wow! An esoteric atheist!!!!!! This is better then I had thought!!!!!!
Great case study! :eek:

Yaba Daba! :m:

I studied esoteric stuff more then 4 years ago.

Btw... that link is not working.

Hello! I'm sure some of you will agree that there is no god. There is also no soul. I look forward to posting my discussions with you on various topics. To learn more, go to The Raelian Movement (http://www.rael.org) and download a free e-book starting with "Intelligent Design: Message from the Designers".

Looks like you'll yet have to learn the importance of not being a self-absorbed wigger.

http://piparmetra.net/pagrabs/ipu1.gif I'm from the Invisible Pink Unicorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_pink_unicorn) movement
and I pronounce you Raelian scum for what you are -> fluffy orange brainded creeps from outer space! Atheists gone wacko!
Excommunicabo vos!

May her majesty Invisible Pink Unicorn smite thee in her majestic mercy!
Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves

Looks like you'll yet have to learn the importance of not being a self-absorbed wigger.

Being self-absorbed. I'm, not trying to convince anyone about The Raelian Movement. I'm only informing and providing information about us. And by the way, what's a wigger? I don't think that's actually a valid English word.

http://piparmetra.net/pagrabs/ipu1.gif I'm from the Invisible Pink Unicorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_pink_unicorn) movement
and I pronounce you Raelian scum for what you are -> fluffy orange brainded creeps from outer space! Atheists gone wacko!
Excommunicabo vos!

May her majesty Invisible Pink Unicorn smite thee in her majestic mercy!
Blessed Be Her Holy Hooves

Very disrespectful. Yet another brainhole insulting me. Please do your research by checking out the www.rael.org website before making statements like that.

Being self-absorbed. I'm, not trying to convince anyone about The Raelian Movement.

Why?
Why are you not rying to convince anyone about The Raelian Movement?


I'm only informing and providing information about us.

Why? If it is for no purpose, why do it?
You can also go and inform the birds and the beasts about the Raelian Movement, you know.
Facing some lions might be quite moving.


And by the way, what's a wigger? I don't think that's actually a valid English word.

Stay tuned, and you'll be informed.

We need no research for her majesty Invisible Pink Unicorn has revealed to us the truth behind your little, silly group.
As it is clearly said in the most reputable Scripture of St. Fritzpatrick (psalm 92:97):

There shall come those who claim to be us. They shall come and say that in loud, squeaky voices, and idiots shall fall before them on their knees.
But we under the light of her utmost majesty Invisible Pink Unicorn shall stand strong against the wind of moronity.
Our superior intellect and holy powers of irony shall scatter the orange menace like pinkness scatters the darkness of night.
All in the name of the Invisible Pink Unicorn,
may she pee pink acid unto their orange graves!

Eris told me that this rael crap is crap, but she's not bothered. Carry on.

So if aliens made us, who made the aliens?

Very disrespectful. Yet another brainhole insulting me. Please do your research by checking out the www.rael.org website before making statements like that.

If you aren't a sock puppet, then you're stupidity begs to be insulting.

There are simply those for whom it is one's duty to offend.

Wow! A real live Raelian?
I didn't think any of you actually existed (at least not anymore).
I feel like I am at the Zoo looking at a Tasmanian Tiger.
*pokes at the cage*

I do like the idea of all the necessary research material being in one book though. Makes life sooo much easier, less thinking to do.

Well, there are a lot of those to choose from, i.e., bible, quoran (sp), torah, book of mormons, etc

Shit, I thought life had got easier, which is the right one :D Then I can chuck my Feyman etc away they've got nasty number and things in them.

If you want simpler life, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life

So if aliens made us, who made the aliens?

Finally, someone asked me the question wher the alien scientists came from. The answer is that they were created from other alien scientists from another planet and these aliens were created from yet other scientists from another planet. This is an infinite process. There is no starting point. If we don't destroy ourselves, we too will create life on oter planets, including intelligent life just like us. Therefore neither gods nor evolution is the answer.

Ah.
So. It's turtles all the way down then?

Why are you not rying to convince anyone about The Raelian Movement?

Because everyone is entitle to believe as they wish. It is disrespectful to impose your way of life on others.


Why? If it is for no purpose, why do it?
You can also go and inform the birds and the beasts about the Raelian Movement, you know.
Facing some lions might be quite moving.

Stay tuned, and you'll be informed.
What a foolish question and statement.

Finally, someone asked me the question wher the alien scientists came from. The answer is that they were created from other alien scientists from another planet and these aliens were created from yet other scientists from another planet. This is an infinite process. There is no starting point. If we don't destroy ourselves, we too will create life on oter planets, including intelligent life just like us. Therefore neither gods nor evolution is the answer.
How, then, did the first life form come to be?
What, or who, is this first life form?
How do you know?

Ah.
So. It's turtles all the way down then?

It was only a matter of time before someone mentioned that. Actually it's alien scientists all the way down.

Also, can you tell me where that originated from. I think it goes back around the 12th or 13th century when people used to think that turtles held the universe on 2 giant columns or something like that.

Actually it's alien scientists all the way down.

Ah. But it isn't. And doesn't this introduce a flaw into your theory?
It's not alien scientists all the way down.
Somewhere in this line of infinite aliens is a single group that isn't alien.
Us. Right?

So. Do you think that you can split infinity?

Also, can you tell me where that originated from. I think it goes back around the 12th or 13th century when people used to think that turtles held the universe on 2 giant columns or something like that.

I really couldn't say. I think the first place I heard it from was a Stephen King novel and then I read it Sagan's Demon-Haunted World. I don't think either actually state the origin of the belief.

However, an interesting fact.
Consider Atlas who, by common tradition, is said to hold the earth on his shoulders... But, this is not the case. In fact, Atlas held a pillar that seperated the heavens from the earth.
A very different concept indeed.

Although, I suppose you could flip the image over and would, in effect, see Atlas supporting the Earth with his feet...

How, then, did the first life form come to be?
What, or who, is this first life form?
How do you know?

It just said it's an infinite process. There is no first life form.

How do I know? I just have a feeling that the universe is infinite and that humanity have scientists crated other humanities for eternity. I just don't know how that's going to be proven. Evolution is junk science because one species can't change (evolve) into another species. And there is no god, there is just infinity in the universe in time and space.

Bottom line, I'm not trying to convince anyone, just providing information. Everyone is entitled to believe as they wish.

It's not alien scientists all the way down.
Somewhere in this line of infinite aliens is a single group that isn't alien.
Us. Right?

So. Do you think that you can split infinity?


:eek: Split infinity? Can you explain further. Also, I should have stated "It's genetic engineers all the way down".

Split infinity? Can you explain further.

Simple.

Take an infinite line.
Cut it in half.
What do you have?
You have a line going to infinity one way.
And a line going to infinity the other way.
Don't you, in fact, have two infinite lines now?

Infinity is a mathematical paradox. When one resorts to infinity it implies a failure.

By the way. The Raelians aren't that cult that wore gym suits and cut off their balls and commited suicide to catch the ride on the alien ship hiding behind the comet, are they? At first I thought they were, but then I remembered seeing footage of the founder of the Raelian cult. Some french dude, right? And he claims to have cloned a human? Weird haircut?

Anyway.
As to you 'sharing' information.
Fine.
Just stop spamming the forums.
If you want to share your message then keep it to a single thread. This one, for instance. Or you can start threads on specific topics which might be contained within your beliefs. But at the moment you're spamming the forum which is a great sign of disrespect to the forum and its members.

You might well be banned, but if you change your ways, perhaps the moderation will go easy on you.

invert_nexus,
That was the Heaven's Gate Cult.
They were not Raelians, but they had similar beliefs about superior Aliens starting life here on Earth.

The turtles, I believe, came from the East. I think it was something in Chinese mythology or something.

Evolution is junk science because one species can't change (evolve) into another species.
Except they can and do.

invert_nexus,
That was the Heaven's Gate Cult.
They were not Raelians, but they had similar beliefs about superior Aliens starting life here on Earth.

Thank you for that reply. Also, Raelians are against suicide except for euthanasia when someone's suffering from an incurable illness.

Simple.
...
Anyway.
As to you 'sharing' information.
Fine.
Just stop spamming the forums.
If you want to share your message then keep it to a single thread. This one, for instance. Or you can start threads on specific topics which might be contained within your beliefs. But at the moment you're spamming the forum which is a great sign of disrespect to the forum and its members.

You might well be banned, but if you change your ways, perhaps the moderation will go easy on you.

I'm not doing any spamming. I'm just discussing my opinions on this forum. I'm not forcing anyone to read my posts or threads or to respond to them. Everyone is entitle to believe as they wish. Although, I'm getting a few disrespectful replies with foul language. I never use foul language in my posts.

hey raelian. welcome to sciforums. i dunno much about raelians, but surely this should go in the religion section

Define incurable disease. Could not our designers come up with cures for any malfunction? Does not that negate your statement?

- KitNyx

Why? If it is for no purpose, why do it?
You can also go and inform the birds and the beasts about the Raelian Movement, you know.
Facing some lions might be quite moving.

Stay tuned, and you'll be informed.

What a foolish question and statement.

You just don't get it, do you?

Yes, I agree, alain, all raelian discussions should be sent to the religion section of this forum. Along with other cults.

Hello! I'm sure some of you will agree that there is no god. There is also no soul. I look forward to posting my discussions with you on various topics. To learn more, go to The Raelian Movement (http://www.rael.org) and download a free e-book starting with "Intelligent Design: Message from the Designers".

This is a science forum, so unproven statements will not be considered seriously here. The fact that Claude Vorilhon was contacted by an alien cannot be proven, ergo, nobody will believe such a cock and bull story

"God exists" is considered quite seriously here. Sod off, Lucas.

Considered seriously by some. Scoffed by others. But I'm curious, are you suggesting that raelian1 is correct? The Raelian bullshit has long been demonstrated to be exactly as Lucas says: "cock and bull."

This is the same cult that encourages ritual orgy and lied to the world about creating a human clone.

Considered seriously by some. Scoffed by others.
I think most of the people here at Sci have seriously considered the (non)existance of God. Regardless of conclusion, such a discussion requires 'serious' consideration.

But I'm curious, are you suggesting that raelian1 is correct?
I'm suggesting that he should be allowed to spout his beliefs, regardless of how much of a dingus I think he is.

I'm suggesting that he should be allowed to spout his beliefs, regardless of how much of a dingus I think he is.

I agree. However, he should have a clearer stance on what he is doing.
"Just to inform" is politically correct bullshit. I rather have an avid proselytizer than a politically correct passive aggressive wannabe.

Finally, someone asked me the question wher the alien scientists came from. The answer is that they were created from other alien scientists from another planet and these aliens were created from yet other scientists from another planet. This is an infinite process. There is no starting point. If we don't destroy ourselves, we too will create life on oter planets, including intelligent life just like us. Therefore neither gods nor evolution is the answer.

This process is impossible. Those stupid aliens should learn a bit of cosmology, because the Universe had a starting point--the Big Bang, therefore the chain cannot go perpetually to the past. I prefer to believe what serious scientists predicate based on years of observations and sound theories than to hear the bull peddled by that band of swindlers called Raelians

Why?
Why are you not rying to convince anyone about The Raelian Movement?
Why? If it is for no purpose, why do it?


Incase someone asks "what the hell is the raelian movement" like I just did.

What is this?

Fred Hoyle type transpermia?

The turtles, I believe, came from the East. I think it was something in Chinese mythology or something.
That's the right answer.

hey raelian. welcome to sciforums. i dunno much about raelians, but surely this should go in the religion section
Pseudoscience. Raelians are a form of esoterics, which belongs to the pseudoscience section. Well, if you want to be specific... but who cares, eh?.... ;)

It just said it's an infinite process. There is no first life form.

If it's an infinite process, how do you explain the fact that all the galaxies are moving away from one another? In other words, they are moving away from one another because the matter they formed from was once all together. That fact suggests there was once a start to the universe, hence the infinite process you describe is impossible.

I just have a feeling that the universe is infinite and that humanity have scientists crated other humanities for eternity.

What is your 'feeling' based upon? Observations of the universe, how things work, are in direct disagreement with your 'feeling.' How do you account for that?

Evolution is junk science because one species can't change (evolve) into another species.

Why not? What reasons do you have that would counter the facts of evolution? Is that another 'feeling' you have?

Bottom line, I'm not trying to convince anyone, just providing information.

But you haven't provided any information, you've merely stated some assumptions based on feelings. Big difference.

Please provide substantiated information that might show your assumptions correct.

Thats even WORSE than religion because it doesnt GO anywhere. As people pointed out you cant have humans (for aguments sake say everyone including the alians are humans, just makes the typing easier) self creating. Yes we could create life and that could create life ect but that doesnt mean anything. God that is worse fence sitting than agnostics:p (of which i am one). Even most athiasts have to admit that religion COULD be corect and most religious people the same but you guys are using alot of words to say nothing which not only doesnt work religiously it doenst work scientifically. How it be turtles all the way down if the universe had a starting point? I know humans are bad at beginings and becomings but thats rediculas. At some point you are left with humans self creating, evolving or being made by a higher power. As humans CANT self create oviously, and evolution can be proven (but what cant be proven is if it is the device a higher power uses or if its compleatly random) where would your idear get ANY creadence?

It does go somewhere. It goes round.

Makes me dizzy....

Besides he's a newbie, and we all know whet they are (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=48559)!

And a raelian newbie probably is even worse, something like an alien overlord. :eek:

Hello to da Monkey!

After all, everyone is entitle to believe as they wish.

No they are not.

fuck. :'(

you did notice the address you signed into didnt you? In case you didnt its SCIFORUMS, therefore at SOME level MOST of us use the scientific method to validate our ideas. Now yes i know its not perfect and it doesnt really work on religion but as you are claiming that this is a scientific princaple try aplying it to your theory and see where it gets you. Rember obsivations are an important part of the SM so please explaine to us your observations and\or experiments that show this to be valid. Also rember to take it gracefully when other scientists tare it apart because thats all part of the reality checks.

Raelin:

Evolution is junk science because one species can't change (evolve) into another species.

Yeah yeah, whatever you reckon. :rolleyes:

And before you start to whine and bitch about people laughing at your beliefs, and comparing them to the IPU, remember this very simple proverb:
"IF YOU DON'T WANT YOUR BELIEFS LAUGHED AT, THEN DON'T HAVE SUCH FUNNY BELIEFS!!!"

After all, everyone is entitle to believe as they wish.

Absolutely, no matter how ridiculous or far fetched.

And yet, you believe it but are unable to answer any questions.

That should tell you something about the nature of your beliefs.

Who is God?
God is seen first and foremost in the bible, it was here the theory of "one" God began. God is also seen in other texts, realting to certain religions. Notaibly God has been miniplated to fit with other religions, the first religion that had one God were the hebrews. As times have passed, God has made no apperence to anyone in any form, so other theories of God have been sitiuated to fit in with certain beliefs. Such as buddahism and even Christianty. In most notions God is the formation of all creation of the entire universe. In an another aspect there is an omnipresent God, and he is not personification at all, instead he is considered to be all existence that exists with in the entire universe. The bible cleary states that God is a substnace, a substance of actual existence. In the bible we do not see God as being all existence, we see God as being limted to voice and mind. In the bible we see God interving with men. In buddhaism God is known as Brahama the omnipresent, the for ever-existing spirit, that not only exists in every living thing but also in every non-living thing. This theory is not entierly divered from the bible, but from an different concept of God. The aspect of God being omnipresent means there is no knowledge in the omnipresent God. Knowledge is limted to the substance in which it exists. If the universe is made by chance it lacks knowledge. If you give the universe knowledge, then you have to give the entire universe that knowledge. To say that the omnipresent God is knowledge, is to say every partcile that exists is knowledgeable, and with that knowledge can do as it pleases. But this is not true every particle of existence does not have free to do as it pleases and does not have knowledge. Believeing that God is the univerese is believeing that we are from the universe, and that the universe made us.
Objects of any sort are not just made, nothing just pops into existence there are factors that make other things exist. You can't build a house with out supplies, and with out builders. You need substance to have formation.
When you give personifcation to God you give knowledge to a presence of God. You give him a mind to think, you give him mind to create as he wishes. If God was all existence, then everything would be God. This is very illogical to any one that believes it. The main reason being is that in earlier history of humanity, God was not all existence.
Other reasons are as followed.
If I were to spit on the ground I would be spiting on the omnipresent God. If the omnipresence of God existed with in me then if I die God would die. There fore I am God in a sence, of his omnipresence, and when I die I should be realeased back in the omnipresents of God. Since as an incarnate form of humanity I am limted to ever being omnipresent.

Now I will cover the subject of the bible and what the bible actually has to offer with out jumping to odd conclusions of the supernatural.
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.


You can either think it is possible that god lives in a cloud that can also be set on fire, or you can think that it something far more advanced.
One problem that exists in a illogical mind are myths of angels.
Let me give you an example of the voice of God.
Lets say,
You hear a voice from the sky, you would immediately think that it was God talking to you.
A person with a rational mind would ask where the source of that voice was coming from.
Since you need mouth to speak and a brain to talk.
So lets say the voice keeps talking to you in intelligent words.
Then an angel comes down from the sky.
Now you would think that the an angel is in fact being sent down from the sky by God since you already have assumed that the voice is non other then God himself, and even more since the voice tells you it is God.
So now an angel comes down from the sky.
Now a logical mind would tell you that the voice you just heard was coming from the angel.
And even if the angel were to land in front of you and there was a continued voice from the sky, it could easily be another angel.
This mistake is happening over and over again in the bible.
When people read the bible today they do not realize the mistake the modern people made in that day and age, remember that verse.

Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them....
We see the truth mentioned in the chapter right after 13!!!!!!
Exodus 14:19
Then the angel of God(<) who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them,
Wait a god darn minute what does that other verse say again??
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.
That is mistake number one!!!!!!
What more no cloud lights on fire!
You would think no incarnate figure could exist in a cloud fire, would it not get burned up.
The irrational people of the bible did not think such thoughts and the people of today sadly do not either.
What the people where seeing can not be clear enough!!!!!
Exodus 33:7 Now Moses used to take the tent and pitch it outside the camp, far off from the camp, and he called it the tent of meeting. And everyone who sought the Lord would go out to the tent of meeting, which was outside the camp. 8 Whenever Moses went out to the tent, all the people would rise up, and each would stand at his tent door, and watch Moses until he had gone into the tent.9 When Moses entered the tent, the pillar of cloud would descend and stand at the entrance of the tent, and the Lord would speak with Moses. 10 And when all the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance of the tent, all the people would rise up and worship, each at his tent door. 11 Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. When Moses turned again into the camp, his assistant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, would not depart from the tent.


What it is saying here in lame terms is that "The lord" walks out of a "cloud" and talks to Moses, and people worship him and this cloud!
7 chapters later once again we see the mention of the cloud that is on fire????
36 Throughout all their journeys, whenever the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the people of Israel would set out.37 But if the cloud was not taken up, then they did not set out till the day that it was taken up.38For the cloud of the Lord was on the tabernacle by day, and fire was in it by night,(<There it is directly the fire cloud is the same as the normal one) in the sight of all the house of Israel throughout all their journeys.
Now I will mention other insightful scriptures....
Numbers 9:15
The Cloud Covering the Tabernacle
On the day that the tabernacle was set up, the cloud covered the tabernacle, the tent of the testimony. And at evening it was over the tabernacle like the appearance of fire until morning.
Numbers 9:17
And whenever the cloud lifted from over the tent, after that the people of Israel set out, and in the place where the cloud settled down, there the people of Israel camped.
This is the creator watching his creation.
Luke 9:34 (Time of Jesus)
As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.
I Am going to throw in something scary here.......

Luke 21:27
And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Acts 1:9
And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.
Sucks Jesus right off the ground like a .... dare I mention it.


Luke 9:34
As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.
You know people just ignore this like you can walk on a cloud.
A cloud is water vapor, it does not set on fire and you can not walk on it!!!.
I know the true creator of the human race, I can only hope that you see the logical truth that I do.



I have writ en a more substantial book then just this essay called "What's wrong with the bible." Although it does not cover anything about intelligent life, it does cover the mysteries of angels in chapter 6.
Here are some passages from that chapter edited a bit for your understanding on the relevant subject,
Abraham encounters God in the carnate form.
Genesis 18:1 And the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. 2 He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth 3 and said, “O Lord, if I have found favor in your sight, do not pass by your servant.
Abraham now bows himself to the ground in front of these three men that he assumes are all three the presence of God. Even though we see in later verses that one of these man is assumed to be God, Abraham at first has no clue which one of these carnate man is in fact God.
You have to wonder why? How is it possible that between a group of three man that God could not be recognized. These three men are welcome by Abraham and are feed by Abraham.

Genesis 18:4 Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree, 5 while I bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on—since you have come to your servant.” So they said, “Do as you have said.” 6 And Abraham went quickly into the tent to Sarah and said, “Quick! Three seahs of fine flour! Knead it, and make cakes.” 7 And Abraham ran to the herd and took a calf, tender and good, and gave it to a young man, who prepared it quickly. 8 Then he took curds and milk and the calf that he had prepared, and set it before them. And he stood by them under the tree while they ate.
Here is the notion of God eating food.
Abraham gives GOD!!! food and of course he is happy to partake in the offer of a meal.

Now we skip to later section of the chapter.
Finally the angels have decided that they will destroy the city.
Genesis19:13 For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it.”
So the angels some how are going to destroy the city!! Not God!!!! but the angels sent by God are the ones that will destroy the city.
We jump ahead quickly to see who really destroyed the city of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven.
Well to me this is a very interesting factor to look at.
The Lord destroys the city yet the Angels make you believe that they will.
That is either a contradiction or the angels are really God.
If I say I am going to do the dishes and then get my sister to do it, that's being deceitful.
Unless of course I say that I am going to do the dishes, and then do them, but I do such a good job that my mother thinks my sister did it.
We know turn back in Genesis and view the remaining story of Lot and Sodom, and see what else leads me to believe something strange is going on here with these so called angles.
This is the story of the angel in the flame of fire, that was mistaken as God.

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed.
If you light a bush on fire it will consume. Why does this bush not consume?
A. It is not a bush
B. It is not fire consuming the bush.
Either Moses does not know what fire is, or he does not know what this bush is.
In my opinion I believe what he is seeing is defiantly not a bush, but something that is on fire.
Why I believe this is because an angel appears out of the midst of a the "bush."
No being walks out of a bush.
Neither can no normal being walk out of anything that is on fire.
Here in Exodus is where this angel is "mistaken" as God.
It clearly states in Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared to him...
Exodus 3:4 When the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”
Exodus 3:6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
He already saw God, he saw the angel already in the previous verse. This being read correctly states that God is seen as an angel.
When I read this chapter in Exodus it led me on a venture, and made me want to search closely through the other scriptures to see where else God was mistaken as the angels.
Contact me at jwash12822@yahoo.com if you would like more info. or comment on my findings.

it was here the theory of "one" God began
Right there, a huge error in your post. I won't even bother to read more, because it shows that you haven't done any considerable research.

Wow. A whole post of spam-preaching that follows up with an email address. The gods your bible mention are literary fabrications of man and should be no more accepted as evidence than other fictions like Moby Dick or Huck Finn.

Wow. A whole post of spam-preaching that follows up with an email address. The gods your bible mention are literary fabrications of man and should be no more accepted as evidence than other fictions like Moby Dick or Huck Finn.

How dare you blaspheme the Great White One!

Who is God?
God is seen first and foremost in the bible, it was here the theory of "one" God began. God is also seen in other texts, realting to certain religions. Notaibly God has been miniplated to fit with other religions, the first religion that had one God were the hebrews. As times have passed, God has made no apperence to anyone in any form, so other theories of God have been sitiuated to fit in with certain beliefs. Such as buddahism and even Christianty. In most notions God is the formation of all creation of the entire universe. In an another aspect there is an omnipresent God, and he is not personification at all, instead he is considered to be all existence that exists with in the entire universe. The bible cleary states that God is a substnace, a substance of actual existence. In the bible we do not see God as being all existence, we see God as being limted to voice and mind. In the bible we see God interving with men. In buddhaism God is known as Brahama the omnipresent, the for ever-existing spirit, that not only exists in every living thing but also in every non-living thing. This theory is not entierly divered from the bible, but from an different concept of God. The aspect of God being omnipresent means there is no knowledge in the omnipresent God. Knowledge is limted to the substance in which it exists. If the universe is made by chance it lacks knowledge. If you give the universe knowledge, then you have to give the entire universe that knowledge. To say that the omnipresent God is knowledge, is to say every partcile that exists is knowledgeable, and with that knowledge can do as it pleases. But this is not true every particle of existence does not have free to do as it pleases and does not have knowledge. Believeing that God is the univerese is believeing that we are from the universe, and that the universe made us.
Objects of any sort are not just made, nothing just pops into existence there are factors that make other things exist. You can't build a house with out supplies, and with out builders. You need substance to have formation.
When you give personifcation to God you give knowledge to a presence of God. You give him a mind to think, you give him mind to create as he wishes. If God was all existence, then everything would be God. This is very illogical to any one that believes it. The main reason being is that in earlier history of humanity, God was not all existence.
Other reasons are as followed.
If I were to spit on the ground I would be spiting on the omnipresent God. If the omnipresence of God existed with in me then if I die God would die. There fore I am God in a sence, of his omnipresence, and when I die I should be realeased back in the omnipresents of God. Since as an incarnate form of humanity I am limted to ever being omnipresent.

Now I will cover the subject of the bible and what the bible actually has to offer with out jumping to odd conclusions of the supernatural.
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.


You can either think it is possible that god lives in a cloud that can also be set on fire, or you can think that it something far more advanced.
One problem that exists in a illogical mind are myths of angels.
Let me give you an example of the voice of God.
Lets say,
You hear a voice from the sky, you would immediately think that it was God talking to you.
A person with a rational mind would ask where the source of that voice was coming from.
Since you need mouth to speak and a brain to talk.
So lets say the voice keeps talking to you in intelligent words.
Then an angel comes down from the sky.
Now you would think that the an angel is in fact being sent down from the sky by God since you already have assumed that the voice is non other then God himself, and even more since the voice tells you it is God.
So now an angel comes down from the sky.
Now a logical mind would tell you that the voice you just heard was coming from the angel.
And even if the angel were to land in front of you and there was a continued voice from the sky, it could easily be another angel.
This mistake is happening over and over again in the bible.
When people read the bible today they do not realize the mistake the modern people made in that day and age, remember that verse.

Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them....
We see the truth mentioned in the chapter right after 13!!!!!!
Exodus 14:19
Then the angel of God(<) who was going before the host of Israel moved and went behind them, and the pillar of cloud moved from before them and stood behind them,
Wait a god darn minute what does that other verse say again??
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.
That is mistake number one!!!!!!
What more no cloud lights on fire!
You would think no incarnate figure could exist in a cloud fire, would it not get burned up.
The irrational people of the bible did not think such thoughts and the people of today sadly do not either.
What the people where seeing can not be clear enough!!!!!
Exodus 33:7 Now Moses used to take the tent and pitch it outside the camp, far off from the camp, and he called it the tent of meeting. And everyone who sought the Lord would go out to the tent of meeting, which was outside the camp. 8 Whenever Moses went out to the tent, all the people would rise up, and each would stand at his tent door, and watch Moses until he had gone into the tent.9 When Moses entered the tent, the pillar of cloud would descend and stand at the entrance of the tent, and the Lord would speak with Moses. 10 And when all the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance of the tent, all the people would rise up and worship, each at his tent door. 11 Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. When Moses turned again into the camp, his assistant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, would not depart from the tent.


What it is saying here in lame terms is that "The lord" walks out of a "cloud" and talks to Moses, and people worship him and this cloud!
7 chapters later once again we see the mention of the cloud that is on fire????
36 Throughout all their journeys, whenever the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the people of Israel would set out.37 But if the cloud was not taken up, then they did not set out till the day that it was taken up.38For the cloud of the Lord was on the tabernacle by day, and fire was in it by night,(<There it is directly the fire cloud is the same as the normal one) in the sight of all the house of Israel throughout all their journeys.
Now I will mention other insightful scriptures....
Numbers 9:15
The Cloud Covering the Tabernacle
On the day that the tabernacle was set up, the cloud covered the tabernacle, the tent of the testimony. And at evening it was over the tabernacle like the appearance of fire until morning.
Numbers 9:17
And whenever the cloud lifted from over the tent, after that the people of Israel set out, and in the place where the cloud settled down, there the people of Israel camped.
This is the creator watching his creation.
Luke 9:34 (Time of Jesus)
As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.
I Am going to throw in something scary here.......

Luke 21:27
And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Acts 1:9
And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.
Sucks Jesus right off the ground like a .... dare I mention it.


Luke 9:34
As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.
You know people just ignore this like you can walk on a cloud.
A cloud is water vapor, it does not set on fire and you can not walk on it!!!.
I know the true creator of the human race, I can only hope that you see the logical truth that I do.



I have writ en a more substantial book then just this essay called "What's wrong with the bible." Although it does not cover anything about intelligent life, it does cover the mysteries of angels in chapter 6.
Here are some passages from that chapter edited a bit for your understanding on the relevant subject,
Abraham encounters God in the carnate form.
Genesis 18:1 And the Lord appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. 2 He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth 3 and said, “O Lord, if I have found favor in your sight, do not pass by your servant.
Abraham now bows himself to the ground in front of these three men that he assumes are all three the presence of God. Even though we see in later verses that one of these man is assumed to be God, Abraham at first has no clue which one of these carnate man is in fact God.
You have to wonder why? How is it possible that between a group of three man that God could not be recognized. These three men are welcome by Abraham and are feed by Abraham.

Genesis 18:4 Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree, 5 while I bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on—since you have come to your servant.” So they said, “Do as you have said.” 6 And Abraham went quickly into the tent to Sarah and said, “Quick! Three seahs of fine flour! Knead it, and make cakes.” 7 And Abraham ran to the herd and took a calf, tender and good, and gave it to a young man, who prepared it quickly. 8 Then he took curds and milk and the calf that he had prepared, and set it before them. And he stood by them under the tree while they ate.
Here is the notion of God eating food.
Abraham gives GOD!!! food and of course he is happy to partake in the offer of a meal.

Now we skip to later section of the chapter.
Finally the angels have decided that they will destroy the city.
Genesis19:13 For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it.”
So the angels some how are going to destroy the city!! Not God!!!! but the angels sent by God are the ones that will destroy the city.
We jump ahead quickly to see who really destroyed the city of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven.
Well to me this is a very interesting factor to look at.
The Lord destroys the city yet the Angels make you believe that they will.
That is either a contradiction or the angels are really God.
If I say I am going to do the dishes and then get my sister to do it, that's being deceitful.
Unless of course I say that I am going to do the dishes, and then do them, but I do such a good job that my mother thinks my sister did it.
We know turn back in Genesis and view the remaining story of Lot and Sodom, and see what else leads me to believe something strange is going on here with these so called angles.
This is the story of the angel in the flame of fire, that was mistaken as God.

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed.
If you light a bush on fire it will consume. Why does this bush not consume?
A. It is not a bush
B. It is not fire consuming the bush.
Either Moses does not know what fire is, or he does not know what this bush is.
In my opinion I believe what he is seeing is defiantly not a bush, but something that is on fire.
Why I believe this is because an angel appears out of the midst of a the "bush."
No being walks out of a bush.
Neither can no normal being walk out of anything that is on fire.
Here in Exodus is where this angel is "mistaken" as God.
It clearly states in Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared to him...
Exodus 3:4 When the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”
Exodus 3:6 And he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
He already saw God, he saw the angel already in the previous verse. This being read correctly states that God is seen as an angel.
When I read this chapter in Exodus it led me on a venture, and made me want to search closely through the other scriptures to see where else God was mistaken as the angels.
Contact me at jwash12822@yahoo.com if you would like more info. or comment on my findings.HAIL SATAN!!!

At first I thought, "Hey kool, another atheist." And I wasn't at all sure what the "Raelian Movement" was, so I didn't have much reason to think it was all that bad. But then I read the posts in this thread, and then this statement:

Evolution is junk science because one species can't change (evolve) into another species.
You think evolution is junk science, yet you think that your idea of the universe is right, without any substantial, empirical evidence?

I see you have a disregard for scientific facts. And I'm getting the feeling this is a common thing among Raelians.

While you do seem to have the right idea about the supernatural, your disregard for science is where you diverge from common sense.

Thank you for teaching me what the Raelian Movement is. Have a nice day.

Contact me at jwash12822@yahoo.com if you would like more info. or comment on my findings.
Quick! Someone sign that email up for as many porn sites as you can find.

:D

I have looked at the link to the Raelian site, harps on in a very uneducated fashion about sex and sexy Raelian girls. Clearly a pile of shit designed to exploit women. Nothing new there.

You want free spirited women, try swinging instead.