Do you have free will in Heaven?

There is no such thing, so the question is null and void.

Ignoring that fact, I will say this: I went to a Catholic high school (which eventually turned me atheist), and I had to take religion class every year. The Christian's idea of Heaven is a place where you are accepted as one with God. They believe that it is not an actual place where you walk around and do things, it is a state of being in which your soul has transcended to a place of worship and existence with God. So asking if we have free will in Heaven is an invalid question. And on top of that, no living person could possibly know for sure anyway.

Do you have free will in Heaven?

Yes, those very few who are allowed into Heaven can retain their free will. They have proven that they can be trusted with it.

In the 4th Volume of "Life of Jesus" by Catholicism's foremost seer and visionary the Venerable Catherine Anne Emmerich, we have her description of an instance of Free Will. After the Crucifixion, the ArchAngel Michael, Chief of the Avenging Angels, was so enraged that he was going to flatten all of Jerusalem that very moment. He began with the Temple by rending the Veil before the Holy of Holies. The Spirit of Christ instantly appeared to Michael and asked him to stay his rage, and that revenge was already adequately determined. Michael consented. This shows us that even the most trusted of God's Agents are accustomed to operating in their own discretion. God, apparently, is happy enough with the decisions they make. And then on those occasions when an Agent seems to intend to overstep a bit, communication and persuasion are applied, and God knows that He can trust His agents to do the right thing.

So Heaven is a place of free will, yet there is no evil there?

We have always had free and we will always have it forever. In our pre-mortal life with God we had the choice to follow his plan or be cast out. We chose to follow God's plan but 1/3 of all of God's spirit children chose to go against God and come to Earth without a physical body to tempt man and try to bring us down with them. In this life we still have the choice to accept God or reject him. In the next we will also have free will. When we are finally assigned to our respective kingdoms we will still have free will. When you are standing at the throne of God to receive your final judgment you will still have free will to accept him or not. If you do not at that time accept him then you will be denying him with a perfect knowledge of who He is and who you are. You will be committing the unpardonable sin and be cast to outer darkness were there will be no glory. There will never be a time that God takes away our free will.

The difference between free will here and after this life is you will no longer be tempted and beguiled by Satan. After the resurrection your body will not be subject to the ills and weakness that our mortal bodies are subject to now.

Who created Satan?
What tempted Satan?

Prester John

The truth is you do not have to be tempted by Satan in order for you to do evil. Man has a natural evil nature and Satan exploits that for his own purposes. He is only the catalyst for evil in the world. It is man that decides how much good or evil exists in the world. Not Satan or even God.

God created Lucifer but did not create him evil. He was once one of the very elect of God. He became Satan by rebelling against God and taking many of God's spirit children with him. Lucifer had free will and all that he took with him also had free will.

God did not create good, and he did not create evil. He gave us free will. Good and evil are simply manifestations of our will.

So evil is possible without Satan. Thus evil is possible in heaven? (because we have our free will)

Prester John

Very good question. I will have to check on that and get back to you. My gut feeling is that there is no evil in heaven because if you do evil there you will be cast out. But you would be given a chance to repent before you were.

But then again how could you sin in heaven. What commandment could you break?

if you cant do evil in heaven, then where's free will.

if you cant do evil in heaven, then where's free will.

But choosing not to do evil also an act of free will?

Well you could start to worship someone else for a start.

If you can get chucked out of heaven, sooner or later you're bound to slip up. Everyone has sinned at some point in their lives. How long before heaven is empty?

Prester John: Do you have free will in Heaven?
*************
M*W: No, but I hear they have a hellova buffet.

you have'nt answered pavlos's question, so can you or cant you do evil in heaven.

you have'nt answered pavlos's question, so can you or cant you do evil in heaven.

Those who are in heaven chooses to do good, if they do evil, they are no longer in heaven.

In Heaven or in my church our ultimate destinations are Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms we will have free will but we will be in a glorified state. Therefore we will not have the weakness that we have now. In this life we are mortal and are easily turned to evil. We will have no evil nature like we have now, and there will be no Satan to tempt us. In our pre-Earth life we were spirits but we were not perfect and we were not glorified. Lucifer and even Adam were able to fall because they were not glorified beings. In the Celestial kingdom you will be eternally glorified and perfect so you will not fall. In the other Kingdoms you will not be as glorified but still enough that you can live without sin. You can have free will and not sin in a glorified state.

Those who are in heaven chooses to do good, if they do evil, they are no longer in heaven.so they can do evil in heaven but they get thrown out.


In Heaven or in my church our ultimate destinations are Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms we will have free will but we will be in a glorified state.so no free will, you cant have free will, and be brainwashed to. Therefore we will not have the weakness that we have now. then you wont have free will.In this life we are mortal and are easily turned to evil. We will have no evil nature like we have now, and there will be no Satan to tempt us.if we have none of the things we have now, or only some of the things we have now, we have had our free will taken away, we are infact just slaves. In our pre-Earth life we were spirits but we were not perfect and we were not glorified. Lucifer and even Adam were able to fall because they were not glorified beings.adam had no free will, until after the eating of the fruit, so could not have fell in, as you say, his pre earth life. In the Celestial kingdom you will be eternally glorified and perfect so you will not fall.then as I said you have no free will. In the other Kingdoms you will not be as glorified but still enough that you can live without sin.that sounds a little better but you still lacking, your free will if not totally gone, has been seriously deminished. You can have free will and not sin exactly we atheist do it ever day, but not glorified.

In Heaven or in my church our ultimate destinations are Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms we will have free will but we will be in a glorified state. Therefore we will not have the weakness that we have now. In this life we are mortal and are easily turned to evil. We will have no evil nature like we have now, and there will be no Satan to tempt us. In our pre-Earth life we were spirits but we were not perfect and we were not glorified. Lucifer and even Adam were able to fall because they were not glorified beings. In the Celestial kingdom you will be eternally glorified and perfect so you will not fall. In the other Kingdoms you will not be as glorified but still enough that you can live without sin. You can have free will and not sin in a glorified state.

Thats good, so you're saying that it is possible to have a world with free will, but no evil. Why didn't god make it like that to start with?

(Also i'm confused as to how an Angel is not a glorified being, and as to how adam/eve knew it was wrong to eat from the tree if they didn't know good or evil yet)

so they can do evil in heaven but they get thrown out.

I guess that's just what happened to Adam and Eve...

I guess that's just what happened to Adam and Eve...


How did Adam and Eve know what evil was, or death for that matter?

I guess that's just what happened to Adam and Eve...
why, what did adam and eve do, they were just toddlers{ infants ) in comparison.
it's a cruel/callous thing of this god, to give these infants an ice cream and punish them when they ate it.
as the did not know they were doing wrong.

why, what did adam and eve do, they were just toddlers{ infants ) in comparison.
it's a cruel/callous thing of this god, to give these infants an ice cream and punish them when they ate it.
as the did not know they were doing wrong.

Adam and Eve had to leave the paradise because they got aware of their body. Intelligence took them away from paradise, but it's also the intelligence that will bring them back again. It seems like an evil thing, but that's how nature works, sometimes it seems cruel for us humans. But evil must exist so that we could know what is good, yet both of these exist only in our mind.

Adam and Eve had to leave the paradise because they got aware of their body. Intelligence took them away from paradise, but it's also the intelligence that will bring them back again. It seems like an evil thing, but that's how nature works, sometimes it seems cruel for us humans. But evil must exist so that we could know what is good, yet both of these exist only in our mind.

Wow, where does it say that in the bible ? I thought it was because they ate an apple without knowledge of the consequences. If it was in their nature to do that then why were they made like that? The implication is that god knew that adam and eve would fail his standards. Mind you god doesn't seem to mind lying to us at all. Good luck with getting into heaven btw ;)

Thats good, so you're saying that it is possible to have a world with free will, but no evil. Why didn't god make it like that to start with?

(Also i'm confused as to how an Angel is not a glorified being, and as to how adam/eve knew it was wrong to eat from the tree if they didn't know good or evil yet)

An Angel is a messenger from God that can either be a spirit or a glorified being. A glorified being is one that has a resurrected body.

Actually God did make a world without evil to begin with, but in order for us to truly understand the difference between good and evil we must have a chance to experience both. He intended Adam and Eve to fall but he had to do it in a way that it was their choice. Before Adam and Eve took the fruit they did know there would be consequences for it but would not have known the full implications of it. They did know that taking the fruit would mean disobeying God.

Wow, where does it say that in the bible ? I thought it was because they ate an apple without knowledge of the consequences.

Yeah, it's because they "ate" the "fruit". It's a parable, you know. You become what you eat. The Bible says that Adam and Eve saw their nakedness, which means that they became conscious of their body.

If it was in their nature to do that then why were they made like that? The implication is that god knew that adam and eve would fail his standards. Mind you god doesn't seem to mind lying to us at all. Good luck with getting into heaven btw ;)

Um... I've never heard God tell any lies. Good luck with you too.

He intended Adam and Eve to fall but he had to do it in a way that it was their choice. Before Adam and Eve took the fruit they did know there would be consequences for it but would not have known the full implications of it. They did know that taking the fruit would mean disobeying God.
if your right thats entrapment, and a very cruel thing to do to an infant.
however is god had made a fire of knowledge, instead of a tree with something edible on it, they would have been much less likely to touch it.
now you will say but he had to make it easy for them to fall, so let get to the main point why go to such an elabrate charade, when he could have put them there as if the apple was eaten.
and please dont say that it had to be there choice, thats just a crock, because it was not a choice.
example:
if I say to you goto new york and take any route you like, and then I block of ever route, but the one I want you to go down. where is your choice.

Yeah, it's because they "ate" the "fruit". It's a parable, you know. You become what you eat. The Bible says that Adam and Eve saw their nakedness, which means that they became conscious of their body.



Um... I've never heard God tell any lies. Good luck with you too.

So that would be your own interpretation of the story then,, the bible according to Yorda. Which other parts are parables, which are literal, how do you differentiate between them?

You might want to check out Ezekiel 14:9 btw

And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

emphasis mine.

They did know that taking the fruit would mean disobeying God.

But they didn't know that disobeying god was evil. They didn't know what death was so they didn't know the consequences of disobeying god. For all they knew death was a party with 92 virgins ;)

if your right thats entrapment, and a very cruel thing to do to an infant.
however is god had made a fire of knowledge, instead of a tree with something edible on it, they would have been much less likely to touch it.
now you will say but he had to make it easy for them to fall, so let get to the main point why go to such an elabrate charade, when he could have put them there as if the apple was eaten.
and please dont say that it had to be there choice, thats just a crock, because it was not a choice.
example:
if I say to you goto new york and take any route you like, and then I block of ever route, but the one I want you to go down. where is your choice.

Why would God have put the tree in the garden in the first place if he did not intend for them to take it? He put the tree there to offer them a choice. They could take the fruit and fall thus putting God's plan into motion, or they could have not taken the fruit and just lived in the garden forever alone in their ignorant, but blissful state. They had the choice. Notice that God did not put something in front of them that was inherently evil. It was the equivalent of a parent telling a child not to get into the cookie jar. It is wrong for a child to disobey it's parent but it is not evil. However to disobey God in any amount will cause you to fall. The only way back for Adam and Eve and any of us was to have someone who was spotless and sinless pay for our sins. That way Christ could forgive us of our sins and allow us back to God.

God could not just create Adam and Eve as fallen beings. How would that be right? They had to choose to fall on their own. Also, they were not infants. They new what they were doing they just did not have any experience with good or evil. They could not sin because there was nothing they could do in the garden to cause them to sin. That is why God put the tree their so they would have a way of making a choice.

God could not just create Adam and Eve as fallen beings. How would that be right?

Oh come on, he created them as beings who he knew would fall. Since you can only fall by disbeying god it would be imposiible to create fallwn beings anyway. Talk about a set up. I'm an athiest, god made me this way and gods gonna punish me for being this way! LOL.You said it yourself.

Why did god decide to put humanity through the immense suffering of the world when he could have created a world without evil from the beginning?

Prestor John

Yea he could have made us all automatons with no free will. We could never grow beyond that because we would never know the difference. Adam and Eve and all of us must learn for ourselves good and evil, pleasure and pain, joy and sorrow. We learn through experience. God wants us to experience and grow.

The Adam and Eve story is also an allegory for us. God created us as spotless sinless infants and then we are told not to sin. We are not perfect so we always will. Once we do we are cut off from God forever. However, Jesus Christ came down and atoned for our sins enabling us to become clean again and return to our Father in heaven.

Prestor John

Yea he could have made us all automatons with no free will. We could never grow beyond that because we would never know the difference. Adam and Eve and all of us must learn for ourselves good and evil, pleasure and pain, joy and sorrow. We learn through experience. God wants us to experience and grow.

No you said that we can have free will and not commit evil...

You can have free will and not sin in a glorified state.

brutus; you've completely missed the point of the preachers post.
you keep going on about adam and eves choice, so I repeat what the preacher said using his example: if I say to you goto new york and take any route you like, and then I block of ever route, but the one I want you to go down. where is your choice.

brutus; you've completely missed the point of the preachers post.
you keep going on about adam and eves choice, so I repeat what the preacher said using his example: if I say to you goto new york and take any route you like, and then I block of ever route, but the one I want you to go down. where is your choice.

Your choice would be to not go to New York at all.

No you said that we can have free will and not commit evil...

As glorified beings we can do that but not in our present mortal state. Christ was born part mortal and part glorified being to begin with, so he could go through life and not sin even with free will, but he could still die because of his mortal side.

How can you have free will and not sin. Well how many choices do you make in life that do not involve sinning? Many, in fact most of your choices are not a choice between good and evil at all.

and we could have been made glorified in the beginning and avoided all this suffering and evil. or is that beyond gods capabilities?

There are two problems here at the moment both centered around free will.

1) It is possible for god to create beings with free will yet who chose to do no evil. Evil is therefore an optional extra that god decided to include in his universe. This is at odds with a benevolent interpretation of god.

2) Adam and Eve were doubly shafted. First they were made so that they would go wrong, then they were not made aware of what exactly was a wrong thing to do and the consequences of doing wrong. When they did what they were made to do, they were punished. They had neither free will nor the knowledge to guage the results of their actions. Again is this the behaviour of a benevolent being?

your just being facetious, so let's put another way.
if you were being pushed in the direction of new york and you could take any route you liked, but then you find, all but I route blocked. where is your choice.

He intended Adam and Eve to fall but he had to do it in a way that it was their choice.God could not just create Adam and Eve as fallen beings. How would that be right? They had to choose to fall on their own. in your own word he had to put the temptation there. and force them to goto it.
if they had a choice, not to touch the fruit, they could have left eden, oh wait a minute they could'nt do that either.

Adam and eve had only two choices. Stay in the garden forever alone. This was not God’s plan. Or eat the fruit and fall allowing them to become mortal and have mortal children. They chose the latter and the rest is history.

You could ask then why didn't God just tell them to eat the fruit so they would become mortal? There really was nothing special about the fruit itself. The fruit was not what made them fall. It was disobeying God that made them fall.

God had to do something to cause them to fall but not make them do something inherently evil.

God could not force man to fall, they had to do it on their own.

brutus:
rubbish: why cant you accept that they had no choice, why is that so hard, it's not rocket science is it.
they were forced, no choice.

Adam and eve had only two choices. Stay in the garden forever alone. This was not God’s plan. Or eat the fruit and fall allowing them to become mortal and have mortal children. They chose the latter and the rest is history.

You could ask why didn't God just tell them to eat the fruit so they would become mortal?

There really was nothing special about the fruit itself. The fruit was not what made them fall. It was disobeying God that made them fall.

God had to do something to cause them to fall but not make them do something inherently evil.

God could not force man to fall, they had to do it on their own so they could learn good from evil.

The only way to fall is to disobey God.

If He told them to eat the fruit then they would not be disobeying God and so they would not have fallen. He had to get them to disobey him somehow so they would fall and allow man to enter the world.

God could not flat out tell Adam and Eve to disobey him because by doing so they would be obeying him.

Adam and eve had only two choices. Stay in the garden forever alone. This was not God’s plan. Or eat the fruit and fall allowing them to become mortal and have mortal children. They chose the latter and the rest is history.

D__it is a myth whereby the patriarchy/"God" writes a myth so as to subvert and demonize
the pre-patriarchal peoples understanding of the Garden myth with its Goddess. son/lover, and inspirational Fruit, and Serpent. I suggest Brutus you put you Mormom bible down for a while and look at other books...spread yer wings. for example read Joseph Campbell's Masks of God volume, 'Occidental Mythology' where he goes into this in more depth

You could ask why didn't God just tell them to eat the fruit so they would become mortal?

D_-The FRUIT is the inspirational fruit and is THe very same fruit that is on the Tree of Life. They are referred to as the same tree in a deeper etymological reading of the mythic text. so the eating ot DOESn@T make them 'mortal' but immortal. As i say, this patriarchal version is a SUBVERSION of the much more ancinet motif of the eating of the hallucinogenic fruit which gives the eater a sense of eternal

There really was nothing special about the fruit itself. The fruit was not what made them fall. It was disobeying God that made them fall.

D__ No, the Fruit is IS. is THe central mystery. for it gives the partaker a sense of eternity. But you are right that the central warning of the patriarchy is 'DO NOT DISOBEY MALE AUTHORITY' that Is the 'original sin'

God had to do something to cause them to fall but not make them do something inherently evil.

D__you are taking it literally, as though there really is A 'God'. no, it is a male priestly elite writing this

God could not force man to fall, they had to do it on their own so they could learn good from evil.

We inherently KNOW good from evil, as do animals. so the whole idea of some 'God' telling our ancestors in an actual Garden of Eden what is the difference is prepostrous, and patronizing

what has actually happned now as a result of such divsive myths like the Hebrew creation myth, and Judaic Chrstianity, and Abrahamic religious belief, and the secualr materialistic belef--all influenced by the idea of a split between spirit/consciousness and matter-energy is that all eithics have really gone out of the window. Now the ones who preached to us about good and evil have-through theie absured belief-systems-lost the plot completetly (if they ever had it) and really do NOT know the difference between good and evil. for example, many now belive that 'good' is non-stop consumerism which is stripping the planet that is the home for A L L species of the NECESSARY resources!

Purhaps the fall itslelf wasn't so much about choice, but it was God giving us the ability to experience good, evil, pleasure, pain, joy, health, sickness, sadness, happiness, love, hate, and everything life has to offer.

God wanted to us to experience all of this, but the only way to do it was for man to fall, and the only way man could fall is for them to disobey God.

We live in a deterministic universe, if there was a god it would already know all that we would do. The list to heavens gate would be open to a list it created in the beginning, god would have created some of us to expressly go too hell. Why should we bow to this evil power when our destiny has been recorded..

If there was free will then even god its self would not know whether man himself may one day surpass it and open an uncontrolled path into heaven. Why should man bow too such a pitifully power.

I just don't understand how sane people can seam to know the meaning of god, free will, soul, spirit and many other so called truths, that these words are merely metaphors that hold no meaning of any kind. Grouped in the warm glow of brotherly love the endless self-effacing rhetoric goes round and round on an endless trip to utter boredom. I thought paying attention to the religious forum would give me insight into new ways of thinking. No, its just a pit for the chronic fundamentalist.

Goodbye religious forum.

So that would be your own interpretation of the story then,, the bible according to Yorda. Which other parts are parables, which are literal, how do you differentiate between them?

Everyone who has ears can hear which parts are parables and so on...

Purhaps the fall itslelf wasn't so much about choice, but it was God giving us the ability to experience good, evil, pleasure, pain, joy, health, sickness, sadness, happiness, love, hate, and everything life has to offer.

D--what a minute. that Is life! that is natrual life...the whole potentia of experience. it is here. we dont need no 'God' 'givin' is us in the Genesis chapter about a mythic garden. No, we have it anyoldhow. animals have it, insects have it. they too can fly and explore and suck honey and get eat, just like us.
As said, the ORIGINAL meaning of the Garden and Fruit was the FREEDOM to explore DEEPEr this amazing life experience with the aid of inspirational fruit. And this deeper inspiration makes you see, feel deeper and thus makes you respect Nature. not damn it, like the patriarchal version does

God wanted to us to experience all of this, but the only way to do it was for man to fall, and the only way man could fall is for them to disobey God.

Not. what the patriarchy wants is total control. that is why he banned the Fruit then, and why he bans it now!

Adam & Eve= MYTH!! not real, stories stolen by the Jews from other civilizations before them.

Heaven & Hell= MYTH!!. Two assumed realms of existence, depicting another dimention elsewere. To believe such tripe, is to deny this existence, this dimention, this realm of existence. The myth is used to fool the masses, to follow blindly to a false promise of Nirvana, while if you don't follow blindly they at the same time, threaten you with the abomination of eternal suffering in a place they chose to call hell. Only idiots and suckers believe such BULL SHIT!!.

Godless.

Blindman: Goodbye religious forum.
*************
M*W: Buh-bye!

Purhaps the fall itslelf wasn't so much about choice, but it was God giving us the ability to experience good, evil, pleasure, pain, joy, health, sickness, sadness, happiness, love, hate, and everything life has to offer.

God wanted to us to experience all of this, but the only way to do it was for man to fall, and the only way man could fall is for them to disobey God.

Were the choice came in is that God did not tell them not to do something that they had to do such as don't breath, or don't eat anything, or don't stand up. They had to make an actual decision whether to eat the fruit or not. In that sense they did have a choice to eat or not to eat.

Just like we have to do every day. Do I follow God and allow Jesus Christ to make me clean or do I continue to disobey him and fall all over again.

Adam & Eve= MYTH!! not real, stories stolen by the Jews from other civilizations before them.

Heaven & Hell= MYTH!!. Two assumed realms of existence, depicting another dimention elsewere. To believe such tripe, is to deny this existence, this dimention, this realm of existence. The myth is used to fool the masses, to follow blindly to a false promise of Nirvana, while if you don't follow blindly they at the same time, threaten you with the abomination of eternal suffering in a place they chose to call hell. Only idiots and suckers believe such BULL SHIT!!.

Godless.

The reason so many civilizations and religions have such similar stories and myths are because they are based on real events. Adam and Eve did exist, Noah and the flood actually happened, Abraham lived, along with Moses. Their stories were passed down from generation to generation, people to people, and faith to faith. Cultures from all over the world have similar stories. They are almost universal. It is because God reveals truth to all people.

Were the choice came in is that God did not tell them not to do something that they had to do such as don't breath, or don't eat anything, or don't stand up. They had to make an actual decision whether to eat the fruit or not. In that sense they did have a choice to eat or not to eat.

D-- ahh, but remember, in the same myth--and remember i am stating the two trees deeply mean one single Tree--the Tree of Life is barred from use. 'God' takes AWAY that freedom of choice to eat ITS Fruit by placing angels with flaming swords by it. so. like said, this myth is not about FREEDOMS for us as individuals, like if we choose to experience ecstasy and sriticize with Nature. It is more a patriarchal statement of 'either obey or disobey me, but if the latter you are committing 'original sin' cause i am your 'God')

Just like we have to do every day. Do I follow God and allow Jesus Christ to make me clean or do I continue to disobey him and fall all over again.

in other words you are tied to a patriarchal authority which TELLS you what 'God' is, instead of allowing you freedom to explore in your own UNIQUE way

Hey Bruto, I mean Brutus. What color was Adam & Eve?.

Explain black people.
Explain Chinese.
Explain different races. If we all come just from one mythological crapological origin of Adam & Eve?

G.

Adam and Eve did exist

No they did not. I am not saying this because I am atheist. I have been told on more than one occasion by Catholic priests and nuns that they did not exist. It is just a story to explain the idea that they believe all humans are born with original sin. Of course, this is just their interpretation of the Bible, but tell me this: how can you base your life around ONE book that can be interpreted so may different ways?

No they did not. I am not saying this because I am atheist. I have been told on more than one occasion by Catholic priests and nuns that they did not exist. It is just a story to explain the idea that they believe all humans are born with original sin. Of course, this is just their interpretation of the Bible, but tell me this: how can you base your life around ONE book that can be interpreted so may different ways?

I do not base my life on ONE book. Besides the Bible I also have the Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, The Pearl of Great Price, plus the words of a living prophet and modern day twelve apostles.

Hey Bruto, I mean Brutus. What color was Adam & Eve?.

Explain black people.
Explain Chinese.
Explain different races. If we all come just from one mythological crapological origin of Adam & Eve?

G.

Godless

Modern science acknowledges that the entire human race sprang from a single source. Our DNA is too similar even among different races. I do not know for sure how other races came about. There have been many theories over the years. Some theories that were common among all of Christianity have been repudiated such as black skin being the mark of Cain. The LDS church no longer espouses that belief and really has no official doctrine relating to races. I tend to believe that race is in fact a product of adaptive evolution. Most dark skinned peoples originate from equatorial regions that required them to adapt to more sun, while lighter skinned peoples originated from the north. Adam and Eve were not necessarily the first Humanoids to walk the Earth. They were the first to contain the spirit children of our Father in Heaven and every human after them also contains a spirit. The LDS church’s stand on evolution is neutral. If in fact evolution is true then that was God’s way of creating mankind as we know it.

What race was Adam? We really do not know. If we just look at race scientifically we have to wonder how the white race came about in the first place. White skin is made from a regressive gene. "Black" genes are dominant. If the first humans were black then how did they ever produce the "white" gene?

Everyone who has ears can hear which parts are parables and so on...

That would explain why all christains can agree on which are parables and which aren't, hey wait a minute, they can't.......

Were the choice came in is that God did not tell them not to do something that they had to do such as don't breath, or don't eat anything, or don't stand up. They had to make an actual decision whether to eat the fruit or not. In that sense they did have a choice to eat or not to eat.

Just like we have to do every day. Do I follow God and allow Jesus Christ to make me clean or do I continue to disobey him and fall all over again.

I can't believe you're still clinging to this. You said god designed them to fall, it was part of his plan. Its like me building a computer, the computer has a choice, it runs windows or it doesn't. Ha it ran windows like what i designed it to do, so i'm gonna chuck it out coz its not Linux. That sounds bizzare but thats what god did!!!!!!! (according to the bible)

I can't believe you're still clinging to this. You said god designed them to fall, it was part of his plan. Its like me building a computer, the computer has a choice, it runs windows or it doesn't. Ha it ran windows like what i designed it to do, so i'm gonna chuck it out coz its not Linux. That sounds bizzare but thats what god did!!!!!!! (according to the bible)

Prester John

I'm not clinging to it. People keep bringing it up.