It seems more than coincidental that as Gaza endures another killing-spree, Mr. Spock and Otheadp have been making some unusually hateful posts. I have refrained from dignifying them with direct response. If moderators are serious about maintaining decorum here, this deeply offensive posting should be responded to severely.

To better express my disappointment and sadness toward these two members, I've been scouring the internet in vain, to find a clip of a 1970s Jewish Chautauqua Society TV Public-Service Announcement. It was a cartoon of a man infected with deep hatred, and it eloquently conveyed the self-destructive aspect of hate. I haven't watched it for at least 30 years, but it's still vivid in my mind, and I remember the words well:

When you HATE
Who do you really hurt the most?
Hate hurts you-
Hate hurts YOU.


I value the widest possible spectrum of opinions at Sciforums, but hate hurts us all, and it gravely diminishes the value of this forum. Do something.

I hate you...

It seems more than coincidental that as Gaza endures another killing-spree, Mr. Spock and Otheadp have been making some unusually hateful posts. I have refrained from dignifying them with direct response. If moderators are serious about maintaining decorum here, this deeply offensive posting should be responded to severely.

To better express my disappointment and sadness toward these two members, I've been scouring the internet in vain, to find a clip of a 1970s Jewish Chautauqua Society TV Public-Service Announcement. It was a cartoon of a man infected with deep hatred, and it eloquently conveyed the self-destructive aspect of hate. I haven't watched it for at least 30 years, but it's still vivid in my mind, and I remember the words well:


I value the widest possible spectrum of opinions at Sciforums, but hate hurts us all, and it gravely diminishes the value of this forum. Do something.


is it any suprise that spock expresses hatred towards arabs and muslims he lives in isreal

Hatred is a choice. I've known many Israelis who overcome it, which is also a choice. We all have choices to make whether we want to participate in and condone hate speech or not.

There are plenty of good reasons to hate, in general. Why is that a problem? As long as we are reasonably civil towards each other...

I value the widest possible spectrum of opinions at Sciforums, but hate hurts us all, and it gravely diminishes the value of this forum. Do something.

Totally Agree!!!

Only the one who hates is possessed of Hatred. Only the hater hates and only the hater has hate. Hate is poison! It is self-destructive. Hate makes people stupid!

So...then...I send my Love out to Everyone!!!
:thankyou::thankyou::thankyou:

Best Regards.
Jozen-Bo

spidergoat: "As long as we are reasonably civil towards each other..."

It isn't reasonably civil to dehumanize and demonize another ethnicity. I've read posts here today that dehumanize and demonize Muslims and Palestinians.

Hatred is a choice. I've known many Israelis who overcome it, which is also a choice. We all have choices to make whether we want to participate in and condone hate speech or not.

yes but living in a country like that he is far less likely to get a favorable view of them

Fine. I'm not going into a discussion about stupid notions of differential ethics here. I'm asking you to consider how much hatefulness we want to tolerate here in this forum.

Fine. I'm not going into a discussion about stupid notions of differential ethics here. I'm asking you to consider how much hatefulness we want to tolerate here in this forum.

Sure you can hate things here, its just what/who you hate and how/why you hate them that you have to be careful about. I personally dont think just preaching your hate for something is constructive at all, but that doesnt mena that others dont.

It could be that taking everything posted here as a cut to the bone is a bit of hypersensitivity not really indicative of, or shared by, the forum at large.

15ofthe19: "It could be that taking everything posted here as a cut to the bone is a bit of hypersensitivity not really indicative of, or shared by, the forum at large."

That's why I'm here soliciting opinion. If it is your opinion that current events in Gaza don't merit a certain sensitivity, then that's a difference between you and me. I am deliberately avoiding links and direct context here, and I'm deliberately avoiding comparative role-reversal constructs.

Imagine if 50 Israeli Jews had been murdered together today, and if in that context, I had proceeded to describe supporters of Likud as insects in need of extermination. But that's not all. Let's say me and some friends start posting graphic videos of Rachel Corrie's death, to the accompaniment of happy country music, quoting Leviticus, insulting Judaism, and painting Jews as savages. I regret even having to make such a comparison, but it seems you really don't understand what I'm angry about.

We should all be a little more sensitive while the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is escalating. We are interconnected now. How we all respond in our own lives everywhere really does influence the level of contagion of hate here, and in Israel. Hate is screaming out of the Mideast today, seeking collaborators. We have a choice to make here about that call.

yes but living in a country like that he is far less likely to get a favorable view of them

Thats not correct. Gideon Levy (http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/taxonomy/term/145) is Israeli, as is Richard Silverstein (http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/) (oh alright he's an American, but his work for the Israel-Palestine process should be recognised) so are the people who run all the peace groups (http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/israelpeacegroups.html) in Israel.

So are the people at B'tselem (http://www.btselem.org/index.asp), the Israeli human rights organisation.

There are many many many (http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizations/jvfp/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=13362) Israelis who stand for peace.

hypewaders

if you think something breaches the rules then you have a choice you can do nothing and then winge about it OR you can either PM spidergoat, superstring or myself or you can just hit the report button

However we cant read all the posts in the time we have on here so if we dont recive member complaints we have to assume "all is well" unless we find a "crime in proggress" (sorry been reading terry prachette again:p)

How about we all just tolerate each other instead of either having to love or hate anyone. That would seem to be a moderate approach into dealing with each others different points of views. :shrug: :)

Anyway, I personally see the use of profanity as a sign of lack of imagination. :D

As for hatred, there are lots of members here at sciforums who stand on the other side, so you (hype) should not allow a few misguided and misaravim boys to get you down. ;)

He drew a circle that shut me out, Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout. But Love and I had the wit to win, We drew a circle that took him in.

Anyway, I personally see the use of profanity as a sign of lack of imagination.

I think profanity is just fine because words themselves can't hurt you but how you interpret them might.

asguard: "if you think something breaches the rules then you have a choice you can do nothing and then winge about it OR you can either PM spidergoat, superstring or myself or you can just hit the report button"

I hit the report button on 4 or 5 posts. Then I was still pissed. Then I wondered if I was over-reacting. Then I went back to news from Gaza (outside SF) then I came back in here REALLY pissed. You do understand how the zionophiles would react if there was a pogrom underway, and somebody started posting unusually barbed anti-Jewish slurs right in synch with such events.

Or do you?

There's a hateful smokescreen spewing out of Israel, and infiltrating our squeeky-clean sanctuary of civility here. Certain zionists are working themselves up into Kristalnacht mode. For many people around here, world events may seem like a make-believe TV show. But hundreds of real, everyday people are being killed in Gaza, for no better reason than raw hatred.

right into our squeeky-clean sanctuary of civility here.

I'll have you know I'm in a sanatorium not a sanctuary. :p

hyperwald, i only have one thing to say about the report funtion. It takes alot longer for me to deal with something that way. For instance im at uni now, i dont have access to my email so i wont see any of those reports until i get home and get the computer off PB:p. HOWEVER i AM here now (do tend to check in here if i have a few hours between classes) so if it came by PM i would have got it when i checked in and even if i didnt have the time to deal with it i can at least acknolage it (or put something in the mod forum for someone ELSE to deal with it for me if THEY had time)

That is why at the top of B&E it says to PLEASE USE PM's not the report funtion

As for the thread in question to be honest i havent read it. I promise to read it as soon as i have time

OK no worries. I'm getting over it.

Good for you! :thumbsup:

I value the widest possible spectrum of opinions at Sciforums, but hate hurts us all, and it gravely diminishes the value of this forum. Do something.

I'm asking you to consider how much hatefulness we want to tolerate here in this forum.

Hatred is a choice.

What can really be done about hatred?

Not everyone sees hatred as a matter of choice.
Nor does everyone see hatred as something bad or undesirable.


I think that in order to make giving up hatred appealing to people, it would be necessary to offer them something better in life, a sense of safety and power that does not rely on hating and causing harm to oneself and others.
So far, I do not know that anyone has ever offered such a solution.

From a psychological standpoint, to tell a person who is angry and hateful that by being hateful, they only hurt themselves, usually does not help, no matter how rational it might sound.
The motivations for hatred are complex and would have to be addressed individually in each instance.

Otherwise, we're left with some kind of beatnik/hippie/bleedingheart let's-all-be-nice-to-eachother philosophy that eventually breeds immense passive aggressiveness, and hatred.

Not everyone sees hatred as a matter of choice.



They're the walkin' wounded.

greenberg: "beatnik/hippie/bleedingheart let's-all-be-nice-to-eachother philosophy?

No, overcoming hatred is much older than these labels you're using disparagingly. If we're fortunate, we learn in our families not to hate our parents and/or siblings. In normal, early psychological development, we learn that by overcoming feelings of hate we're consistently rewarded with the benefits of caring relationships. Well-adjusted people know that hatred consistently harms any relationship or partnership we enter into in our lives.

We can even see that it extends over lifetimes too, and that it's been the same down through the centuries. Hatred and fear are traditionally overcome within the limited bubbles of empathy and cooperation like families, tribes and even civilizations. When circumstances compel us to live together (being evolved as a social animal) we find that cooperation contributes to survival more than competition. On the frontiers of empathy there have always been fear, hatred and suffering. In our times, multiculturalism and multinationalism are finding their way, while blind hatred really is losing ground. That's not some idealistic, fringe, trendy pop-psychology- it's the story of humanity revealed by an open look around, and back.

Of course you can take the side of fear and hatred if you like, and declare it something intrinsic and inescapable. That's not a rational expression, but it is a valid expression of what the feeling is: Hatred comes from fear- a feeling of no escape from a threat. When we yield to such emotion as a governing force, we do consistently come to harm, because we survive and thrive as rational beings, not mindless panickers, going berserk at each new encounter.

When we can enjoy the company of others, and when we care about the next and future generations, we can't rationally accept hatred, and allow hateful emotion to guide our individual or collective actions.

Expressions against hatred have a lot of seemingly-idealistic talk about ourselves as "brothers and sisters"- but that's really not just idealism. It is the recognition in thought, the understanding of the clear, axiomatic difference between acceptance and fear, and the very different results the two consistently yield. It's an expression of a very basic understanding of how we relate as literal brothers and sisters, of more figuratively as comparable beings whatever our cultures and world-views.

"What can really be done about hatred?"

Think about what behaviors hatred produces, and what the results of such behavior are. You can exercise rational thought on any scale, and expand it out to any level you wish, into issues like the conflict between Zionists and Arabs. If you can't see it on a big scale, just contemplate the results of hatred vs. compassion in dealing with the people closest to you. This isn't complicated. It isn't hippie talk; it isn't liberal talk. Recognize the damage hatred brings, and decide what you want. If you choose to use hatred as the basis of your relationships, you don't have to be a guru to anticipate that your life will soon begin to suck. That's not bleeding-heart psychobabble- It's simple reality.

"Not everyone sees hatred as a matter of choice."

You're right. Only the majority of humanity, who share a basic understanding of their humanity can recognize the choice, and consistently reject hatred as a guiding emotion. Did you ever notice, or wonder why wars are not incited by majorities? Back to the personal-relationships end of the scale, I'm sure the awareness of choice starts asserting itself at a really young age. But there's no need to get into developmental psychology here- I'm just responding to your very basic (and worthwhile) questions with basic common sense. People suffering mental disability, or from an environment so hateful it becomes disabling are at an obvious and tragic disadvantage thinking rationally about hatred. You don't strike me as being disturbed mentally, so I expect you can easily grasp what I'm suggesting.

"Nor does everyone see hatred as something bad or undesirable."

You're right, greenberg. There are and have been sociopaths desiring hatred, and who seemingly can't get enough of it. Because such behavior does directly result in predictable pain and suffering, you don't need a PhD in psychology to understand that a person desirous of hatred has an obvious emotional and/or cognitive problem.

"I think that in order to make giving up hatred appealing to people, it would be necessary to offer them something better in life"

Life does that, greenberg. It's automatic- It's simply the way that the reality of being human works. Help other people to get the things they want, and they'll help you too; you'll become successful. Do it enough, and you'll start caring about each other. Try some experiments of your own if you don't believe me (I suggest experimenting with tolerance and empathy, and not manifestations of hatred). If you experiment with the converse, hating everyone you encounter, you could get to the point where confronting yourself becomes just another descent into hatred. Hate hurts us from the beginning, but in it's ultimate expression, it entirely consumes and destroys us.

"a sense of safety and power"

Ah-HA! "Sense" of safety and power- that's really something worth thinking about. Desiring that, we all reveal our fragility, in how we're afraid of the truth that there really is no safety.

We're all going to die, greenberg. And there is no power: We're all going to eventually be forgotten here. Even when people are "remembered" down the centuries, we're only remembering their most exquisite or disruptive ideas, and discarding their individual power. Ideas have power, and individuals do not. You struck on something important there, because a lot of otherwise well-adjusted people do compete for a sense of safety and power in a egoistic, ethnocentric, or nationalistic sense - even to the point of sparking and obsessing on hatreds. But it really is just a pointless fight over an illusion.

"a sense of safety and power that does not rely on hating and causing harm to oneself and others."

Well said. We can feel a sense of safety and power in caring about others, and seeing that they care for us, and will take action to protect us. Add some rationality to that, and we can see that we're still not safe: Shit will still happen, especially if we select another family or tribe or ethnicity or civilization or whatever as a focus for our fears, and object for our hatred. Then the same psychosis that can take over one mind can infect a whole mob.

Or, we can step back, think about how hate hurts us, and let it go; discard it as harmful irrationality.

"I do not know that anyone has ever offered such a solution."

The solution is offered constantly, and it's been put into practice however long we've been human, and probably longer. I can despise and insult you right now, or not. Ancient choice, as old as thinking.

"to tell a person who is angry and hateful that by being hateful, they only hurt themselves, usually does not help"

A person who is truly angry and hateful is not in a rational state. Again, just go through what you know about basic relationships. Escalate or disengage. When a situation is running out of control, it is best handled without malice, or a yielding to the contagion of fear and hatred. We don't have to read turgid treatises on psychology to get this.

"The motivations for hatred are complex"

No they aren't. When we become afraid enough of people we fail to understand (which is basically silly because we're all made of up of the same bundles of needs and desires) we begin to hate them.

"The motivations for hatred are complex and would have to be addressed individually in each instance."

Any problem, or tangle of problems, has to be isolated and treated rationally in order to sort it out. Hate doesn't get us there because it isn't rational. Beatniks, hippies, and bleeding-heart liberals obviously didn't invent rationality, or even a magical antidote for hatred. We evolved rational minds long before any of those cultural phenomena. Come on, greenberg, think. Indifference is a WMD

What a lovely quote, Sam, I haven't seen or recalled it in years:

He drew a circle that shut me out--
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But Love and I had the wit to win:
We drew a circle that took him in!
-E.A. Markham

hypewader, perhaps you are passive agressive.

I'll take that into careful consideration. Now STFU (just kidding).

See, you are passive agressive.....:D