I am aware of the big bang theory i.e. a big reaction took place and spewed stuff into the universe which then unraveled into what we observe today.
All the energy needed for the initial reaction - was that always in existence? If it was then surely it was indeed The Universe even before the unbridling of its energies into the mass of objects we are able to observe today.
Why did it wait before exploding? What was holding it back before the event took place? Did it just pop into being and immediately explode?
Are there any theories around these things? Please bear in mind I am no scientist so relative simplicity in replies would be much appreciated.

Thanks

C20

the big bang theory describes the universe after it came into being. we can only speculate what was before.

the big bang theory describes the universe after it came into being. we can only speculate what was before.

...he says as if The Big Bang theory wasn't speculation itself. :)

>>>>...he says as if The Big Bang theory wasn't speculation itself

if you wish to believe that then who am i to try to change your mind?

Ok perhaps a little science may have helped after all

sheesh

Ok perhaps a little science may have helped after all

sheesh

The title of your thread is suggestive. To answer that I would claim that the answer is No.

Why? Because to "Have always been here":

1 - Advocates existance without having come into existance. A non-sequitar.

2 - To have always existed suggests "Eternal Existance". To have existed eternally one must first accumulate an infinite number of time intervals.

Infinity by definition is larger than any finite number and can never be reached or accumulated.

We would appear to be left with the fact that the Universe at some point came into existance were none existed before. That mandates creation ex nihilo.

Ok perhaps a little science may have helped after all
But it is not possible (at least in any forseeable future) to answer this question scientifically, so, as a result, it is more of a philosophical or religious question.

But it is not possible (at least in any forseeable future) to answer this question scientifically, so, as a result, it is more of a philosophical or religious question.

I guess you are right. I think my issue is that without this single question answered all else is folly. But as you say - that is a matter for the philosophers ;)

Dear c2oh25N3o,
You said :"Ok perhaps a little science may have helped after all"
You are right and if really want to get some answers on your issue, please read "The Scientific Notes" issue # 8 on my site www.minescience.com
There you will find out about some very unusual and intriguing model of Word and Universe.

Dear c2oh25N3o,
You said :"Ok perhaps a little science may have helped after all"
You are right and if really want to get some answers on your issue, please read "The Scientific Notes" issue # 8 on my site www.minescience.com
There you will find out about some very unusual and intriguing model of Word and Universe.

See you are still trying to pedal your books. It would be hard for readers here to get anything out of your post without buying your book.

Perhaps you might actually contribute to this discussion without trying to sell your information?

Hey, smart one,
ALL publications on my site are for free!!!
For all others: that is one more example why nobody should listen this guy...

I guess you are right. I think my issue is that without this single question answered all else is folly. But as you say - that is a matter for the philosophers ;)

As to the humongous amounts of energy (also the energy locked away in mass) in the Universe: that may strangely turn out to be zero, or something very close to it:

"This application of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle says that you can create something of energy E for a time T so long as the product ET < h, where h is Planck's constant. This does not violate the law of conservation of energy, basically because the violation is too small to be measured. In our universe, this leads to the spontaneous creation and annihilation of what are called virtual particles. One consequence of virtual particles is the evaporation of black holes.

How does this apply to the universe? The total energy of the universe is composed on rest-mass energy (E=mc2), kinetic energy, and potential energy. Potential energy is negative, while rest-mass and kinetic energies are positive. If the universe is exactly balanced (or flat), then the potential energy will offset the kinetic energy, and the net energy of the universe may be zero. Now, zero times anything is less than Planck's constant, so a zero-energy universe could conceivable appear out of nothing (The Vacuum) and exist for a very long time. "

from:

http://www.ess.sunysb.edu/fwalter/AST248/universe.html

Hi Yuriy,

I found it quite hard to understand but thats not your fault, rather I am just not blessed with a scientific mind. Is there anyway you could explain it here in kind of easy terminology please. I would be very interested to have it broken down into simplitic ideas if at all possible. I understand that it might be too difficult to do that in which case thanks for your help thus far.

peace

c20

As to the humongous amounts of energy (also the energy locked away in mass) in the Universe: that may strangely turn out to be zero, or something very close to it:

"This application of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle says that you can create something of energy E for a time T so long as the product ET < h, where h is Planck's constant. This does not violate the law of conservation of energy, basically because the violation is too small to be measured. In our universe, this leads to the spontaneous creation and annihilation of what are called virtual particles. One consequence of virtual particles is the evaporation of black holes.

How does this apply to the universe? The total energy of the universe is composed on rest-mass energy (E=mc2), kinetic energy, and potential energy. Potential energy is negative, while rest-mass and kinetic energies are positive. If the universe is exactly balanced (or flat), then the potential energy will offset the kinetic energy, and the net energy of the universe may be zero. Now, zero times anything is less than Planck's constant, so a zero-energy universe could conceivable appear out of nothing (The Vacuum) and exist for a very long time. "

from:

http://www.ess.sunysb.edu/fwalter/AST248/universe.html

Thanks for your reply :)

I am working my way through now - tuff stuff but getting there slowly thanks.

peace

c20

Hum,
i could surmise that a <i>form</i> of energy ,locked up in multidimensions - (that is still present), somehow chaotically configured itself to decompose into , our familiar 3dimensions + 6 compactified dimensions and one dimension that became time...
The excess energy `immediately` cooled into almost equal parts of anti-matter and matter, that quickly <b>annihilated</b> each other;( the slight excess of matter became what we see as the `Universe`)
i could also surmise that the slight excess/ domination of matter, was somehow built into the original construction/topography of the `dimensions.
It could be that space-time is built from a triangular latticework (strings/membranes) that give rise to all the particles, their properties; and that all of this counter balances (<i>cancels out</i>) the expansion of space/gravity/time...

And that at some time in the distant future <b>it</b> will all ultimately reset itself to reboot into a new universe...and so on...

Er, but i could be wrong..

Hey, smart one,
ALL publications on my site are for free!!!
For all others: that is one more example why nobody should listen this guy...


************************************************** *
3/8/02 David Delphenich, Ph.D., did offer his service as an editor of my book... and now we have it in proper shape and in good readable English.
Job well done!

The Dynamics of Quantum Vortices.

Edited by: D. H. Delphenich

(To buy it click on linked title above)

*************************************************

Maybe the word buy means something different in Russian. If so my apologies. Otherwise guess what!

Hello,c20,
my advice is: read text, leave formulas aside. I sure that model, its property and consequences are written in plain words and can be understood by enyone. Read espesially Topic7 and pp.36-38 - there is a direct answer on your issue.

What a junk this guy is! He even can not recognize that anybody can go on www.minescience.com (http://www.minescience.com) and download ANY publication absolutely for free and even without any asking who is doing that… The misinformation, wrong citation, misleading and direct perjury was your methods two years ago (for what you were through out Forum – creating mystic member who posted appreciation of your talents) and still remain in your pocket… Finally you always come to pure dirt and insinuations…

What a junk this guy is! He even can not recognize that anybody can go on www.minescience.com (http://www.minescience.com) and download ANY publication absolutely for free and even without any asking who is doing that… The misinformation, wrong citation, misleading and direct perjury was your methods two years ago (for what you were through out Forum – creating mystic member who posted appreciation of your talents) and still remain in your pocket… Finally you always come to pure dirt and insinuations…

Look tough guy. I didn't put the word "BUY" on your web site. Apparently you did. Save your bullshit. If all your books are free so be it. Maybe you finally realized just how valuable your work is.

However, you can hardly cast stones at me for noting that you smart mouthed me and claimed everything was "FREE" when in fact your site currently says otherwise.

Which time is a lie?. Now or on your web site?

Now I cannot determine if you lied on your site or if you are lying now about all books being free. But I can say without hesitation that the following is an outright exaggerated lie.

From you post above: "direct perjury was your methods two years ago (for what you were through out Forum – creating mystic member who posted appreciation of your talents)"

That simply did not and has never happened. So others know what you are talking about. Yuriy saw fit to start a thread full of exaggerated bullshit personal attacks directed at me after I had shown him in error once or twice.

I then started my own thread exposing his bullshit. Management locked and later deleted my thread and left Yuriy's intact.

I registered under a psueudo name via the office and filed a complaint about what management had done. I later posted a question as to why the thread had been locked and deleted but posted under my pseudo name using my home computer.

Management caught the common address and surmised that MacM and DanK were one and the same and I was temporaily banned for posting as two persons.

That was, I learned, against the site rules and I was guilty. So no fowl there. However, at no time did I "talk to myself" and use a pseudo name to inflate or otherwise try to con any members about anything especially my own posts or views." My entire effort was to lodge a complaint against management anonomously.

So you are a fucking liar Yuriy. That is beneath even your unworthy conduct.

Now perhaps you will go to your site and remove the referance to "BUY" your book, if indeed it is free. We shall see if that happens or if you lie once again.

I notice you fell out of favor over there. What happened? Let your smart ass mouth overload your pip-squeak ass?

Guys, now it is a time for publicly to name one of us as "a Liar", ones and forever.
Please, go on www.minescience.com (http://www.minescience.com) and tell us if you could not download even a single publication there for free...
If any of you will be unable to get any publication for free you can call me Mr. Liar, if every publication indeed will be available for free I officially will call MacM as Mr. Liar forever. It will be his official name for me. I hope for many of you too (That is an efficient way for public to upbringing someone who likes doing public lies and spoil peoples names and biographies)

Guys, now it is a time for publicly to name one of us as "a Liar", ones and forever.
Please, go on www.minescience.com (http://www.minescience.com) and tell us if you could not download even a single publication there for free...
If any of you will be unable to get any publication for free you can call me Mr. Liar, if every publication indeed will be available for free I officially will call MacM as Mr. Liar forever. It will be his official name for me. I hope for many of you too (That is an efficient way for public to upbringing someone who likes doing public lies and spoil peoples names and biographies)

Before you go off half cocked once again smart ass. Are you denying that http://www.physics4u.com/index.htm is linked from www.minescience.com and is your Home Page.

Do you further deny that what I posted was from your web site? Dance all you want asshole but I have not and do not lie and apparently you do.

MacM and Yuriy,

Please conduct your little squabble via PM or email. It has no place on sciforums, and frankly, I doubt if anybody else cares. Don't bring your baggage from some other forum into this forum.

Further posts of this type will be deleted, and a temporary ban for one or both of your may also result.

MacM and Yuriy,

Please conduct your little squabble via PM or email. It has no place on sciforums, and frankly, I doubt if anybody else cares. Don't bring your baggage from some other forum into this forum.

Further posts of this type will be deleted, and a temporary ban for one or both of your may also result.

Thank you James R. If he pulls his crap again, I'll not respond but I will report it..

The only point the previous conversation has proved is that the Universe, to get back to the topic, can be much ado about nothing, essentially.

;)

The only point the previous conversation has proved is that the Universe, to get back to the topic, can be much ado about nothing, essentially.

;)

The creation ex nihilo or existance in the form of bifurcated nothing is supported in this study by Prof Edward P. Tryon, Physicist:

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapter5.html

So if I am understanding correctly ( and I may have this well cock-eyed) ... because every force has an opposite effectively cancelling out eachother, then technically it could come from nothing and last a very long time because the total energy it uses is zero. In fact one could assume that because there was 'nothing' there needed to be 'something' to balance even that state of existence. I guess you cannot have a state of 'nothing' because it would not be true to itself without something to compare 'nothing' too.
At the end of the day we define anything with words and this is how we recall the things we define. Nothing will always beg the question of 'something' and therefore both states must have always existed simultaneously as 'words'.
Mad stuff! I will never understand the maths though. Dunno how you guys compute all that stuff!?! Doesnt it drive you batty trying to apply numbers to theoretical ideas?

So if I am understanding correctly ( and I may have this well cock-eyed) ... because every force has an opposite effectively cancelling out eachother, then technically it could come from nothing and last a very long time because the total energy it uses is zero. In fact one could assume that because there was 'nothing' there needed to be 'something' to balance even that state of existence. I guess you cannot have a state of 'nothing' because it would not be true to itself without something to compare 'nothing' too.
At the end of the day we define anything with words and this is how we recall the things we define. Nothing will always beg the question of 'something' and therefore both states must have always existed simultaneously as 'words'.
Mad stuff! I will never understand the maths though. Dunno how you guys compute all that stuff!?! Doesnt it drive you batty trying to apply numbers to theoretical ideas?

Errr.. even without you having grasped any underlying math maybe, I must say that's one very, very astute summary.

c20,
you indeed are something. I gave you exact address where you can find answers on all your questions like "why, how, what", but you do not want to read... and still are asking "Dunno how you guys compute all that stuff!?! Doesnt it drive you batty trying to apply numbers to theoretical ideas? ".
Go there, read and think, then read again and think again. If something will be tough after that - come and ask. We will help...
That is the process, we used to call LEARNING.

c20,
you indeed are something. I gave you exact address where you can find answers on all your questions like "why, how, what", but you do not want to read... and still are asking "Dunno how you guys compute all that stuff!?! Doesnt it drive you batty trying to apply numbers to theoretical ideas? ".
Go there, read and think, then read again and think again. If something will be tough after that - come and ask. We will help...
That is the process, we used to call LEARNING.


:rolleyes:

To mercurio:

:bugeye:

c20,
you indeed are something. I gave you exact address where you can find answers on all your questions like "why, how, what", but you do not want to read... and still are asking "Dunno how you guys compute all that stuff!?! Doesnt it drive you batty trying to apply numbers to theoretical ideas? ".
Go there, read and think, then read again and think again. If something will be tough after that - come and ask. We will help...
That is the process, we used to call LEARNING.

Hi Yuriy,

I am afraid I am not capable of learning the things you learn because each of us have limitations. I happen to be a musician and pour my time into expressing my love for the universe in terms of music.
Music opens up bigger ideas to me and then I try and find simple explanations for the things that I feel must be true in my heart.
I could read and read but if my eyes glaze over what am I to do other than try and put the little tiny snatches of learning that I have gleaned and put them together into the smallest puzzle imaginable. I fully accept that I am just trying to condense what I have read. To have repeated your website's contents here would have been worse I feel.

Thanks

c20

In fact lets look at music cos I think it helps with answers.

Music conforms to a beat whether that beat be a simple metronome or a complex drum patter. The beat is the master and the melody the slave.
The universe is like the melody because it conforms to something - it conforms to laws.
A beat also must conform to laws in that it must be a 'constant' in order to be a good master.
Light is a constant and without light we have nothing - no music nothing! Therefore I must conclude that light is the good master which everything else conforms too.
The question is and has always been "How did light appear"?
We know that light does not exist in and of itself but instead requires a source just as the metronome is a source for the beat, so we need a source of the light.
We know that light is as a result of the release of energy so in its crudest form we need something to combust or ignite. However we need to input energy in order to combust or ignite anything.
This leads me to the final conclusion that when God said "Let there be light" that He Himself is the source of all light. Therefore seek Him for understanding. It was God's will that the light shone because He was the Musician who desired a beat to be the good master - the universe was the song that followed in wake of the light. What instrument have you been given to play along?

To mercurio:

:bugeye:

Creswick R J, and Morrison H L, On the Dynamics of Quantum Vortices, Phys. Lett. A76(1980), 267-268

Title sounds familiar? Check the date. :)

Wow! What a surprise! Please, e-mail (or mail) me text, if you still have one... And please, more details...
:p

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TVM-46SNJ3G-56&_coverDate=03%2F31%2F1980&_alid=214231029&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=5538&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=7f26927ce4c69b2401f43d3bf8d1a370

but you need membership.

This other article is available, though, and by one of the authors of the above one (.pdf, mind you)

The Landau–Ginzberg Theory for the Two-Dimensional Bose Gas:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/math-ph/0208043

I believe the universe has always been there... exploding and then falling into oneness, into a kind of gigantic black hole.... then exploding again... there is no beginning or end. But it doesn't matter cos its maybe just an illusion anyway

M-Brane theory. That's where it's at!

:)

It hypothesizes that the energy (including its distribution) in our universe is the result of colliding waves in 11 dimensions.

To mercurio:
Now I have recalled a lot... They were the good times, weren't they?
BTW, I finished working in that field with writing a monograph "The Dynamics of Quantum Vortices". You can download it on my site www.minescience.com (http://www.minescience.com)

It is nice to meet you in this Forum. I guess you understand what I am doing and why I am doing...

The best regards.

Dear c20,
Now a lot is clear for me. Nevertheless, I'm sure you are underestimating your abilities.
Let me bring on some citation from 'Preface" to my other book "The Qualitics":
"There are many stories connected with this book, but one of them should be narrated here. When I finished the first issue of this book in 1988, my chief Spartak Belyaev gave it for comments to one of his best employees. That scientist came to Belyaev with the following conclusion: "You know, something strange happened. When I read this book for the first time, I almost fall in love with author, but at second reading, as more I read as strongly I hated everything I have read". Belyaev asked me: "What you can say about that?" My answer was "Let him read this book for the third time"....
Start reading Lectures I adviced, and in some moment you will recognize that you understand a lot and many things became clear. If there will be a need, ask me.
Good luck.

@wesmorris
Well, of course it is...

two 5d branes, that still underpin the universe...

The way that the dimensions folded up, gave us the arrow of time, the number and properties of particles and gravity, er, basically, the 26 constants...