I don't completely know the history of state sponsored public education, but what I have read seems to point to the fact that state sponsered education had started less about teaching skills or knowledge, but teaching an obedience to a political agenda/nation. I also saw brief notes from a book written by Amy Gutman (Democratic Education) where she states that primary task of the public education system is to produce good "democratic citizens." She seems to hold to the thought that education is more about training kids in benefits a social/political order or even to train them to become obedient citizens than about training in life skills and knowledge.

I don't know if the public education in it's current state will survive as it is at a crux between reform or collapse, but I can't say that it's all bad. My problem is that if we did away with the public education and left it up to parents to raise their kids and train them than I believe society would take one huge step backwards. I don't think collapse is an option as I don't thing the government trusts parents to raise their kids and teach/train their kids.

So public education(the current model) is sort of a new concept from what I have read...Began in and around 1700's in Prussia. Is that right? Ideally would people be educated if left up to parents or private tutors? Does anybody think that the public education system is the die hard way to go. I haven't been in school in awhile, but thinking back, It would have been more ideal in those years to learn about banking, credit card system, Loans, Money Management, Work Ethic, ect... more so than why the Aztec nations lived like they did or why an earthworm had more than 1 heart. Not to say that Math, Science, English, ect. aren't important, but what good are those things if you can't manage your money, keep a job, stay out of credit card debt, understand the way corporations and stock system works. The latter were things I learned from my Father, but many don't even have a Father that really understands these things.

Any comments?

"I don't completely know the history of state sponsored public education, but what I have read seems to point to the fact that state sponsered education had started less about teaching skills or knowledge, but teaching an obedience to a political agenda/nation. "

Based on personal experience (self and as a parent), the assertion isn't true.

It does both, but it's better than nothing.

Spidergoat, Do you think leaving education in the hands of parents is a disaster waiting to happen?

No, it depends on what parents. My brother was homeschooled, and I wish I was, too. I hated grade school.

In general public education has worked to the people's advantage. The times it hasn't worked are in situations like Mao's Communist China and etc, but in those situations, whether or not you went to school, you would inevitably be fed the same propaganda anyway.

Having parents teach you is okay, but only if the parents are qualified; think about it...generation of clueless parents teaching children who become parents who teach their children...who knows how far the curriculum will deviate from what's nationally and internationally recognized? Especially in a globalizing world, it's important that all people have access to decent educations. If there are schools that fail to teach their students properly, it's caused by faulty application of the concept of public education, not the idea itself.

As far as I am aware, public schooling in the present model didnt start until the later 19th century. Can you describe this Prussian system, I haev not heard about it. here in the UK, until late 19th century, schooling was patchy, and carried out by the local minister or some slightly educated person, in such a place as a Dame school, so called because it was run by a lady or some kind, well not a title lady, but hopefully you know what I mean. Anyway, they did little more than teach reading and writing and basic arithmetic. This was, by the later 19th century, clearly inadequate, and eventually systems were set up of schools in each parish, usually paid for out of the rates, with compulsory attendance by children of the correct age.

Now, over the years, the age at which you could leave increased. In fact I would go so far as to say that todays public schooling is more a product of post WW2 than anything beforehand.

It is my understanding that in 19th century (and earlier) America, each community established a local school, usually supported voluntarily by the parents. The summer vacation was established at that time due to the requirement for older children to help in planting and harvesting of crops.

I think the system worked pretty well for a long time, but stopped at about 10th to 12th grade. The more affluent parents sent their children to colleges or allowed them to be apprentices to engineers, doctors, lawyers, et cetera after leaving the local school. I think that it was not until about 1910 (or perhaps a bit later) that you could not become an engineer, doctor, or lawyer via the apprentice system, although many became professionals prior to 1900 via a college education.

I think that our current system has evolved into a bureaucratic nightmare, with no chance of improving in the near future. It took a long time to deteriorate. It will take a long time to evolve into something better, but perhaps it never will get much better.

A wise man once said that any institution run or regulated by the government will sooner or later become a mess. Sooner if run/regulated by the federal government, later if run/regulated at a lower level. While first promoted as humor, Parkinson’s law is quite valid, as is Peter’s corollary. It is interesting that the IRS is probably the only government agency which is somewhat efficient.

All politicians know instinctively that they must keep patronage and lobbyist activities to a minimum for tax collecting instituions: they are the cash cows that support all the excesses of our legislators.

i think it should not be left to the parents i have osem firneds who have not turned out great, but there turned out ok because of public school, of course now there both dropouts, but they smoek and have no parental supervision at all, if it wasent for public education they probably owuldnt know how to read or write