I have two HP 48GX hand calculators which I love. One has started to wear out. Is there anybody here who owned both a 48GX & a 49G+ ? I have a lot of programs written for the HP 48GX. Would those programs run on a 49G+ ? Does anybody have a recommendation for a replacement of my HP 48GX? I would like to buy another calculator before my second 48GX wears out.
I also use the HP 48GX, but I have never used a 49G+. I would think that the programming would be backwards compatible, but you may need to ask someone from HP. There is always Mathematica! -Dale
An interesting possibility is to program in C. There's an HP-GCC compiler available here. It seems there's a considerable speed benefit to it aswell. Your programs are compiled as native ARM binaries and can skip the emulation layer the calculator utilizes to maintain compatibility with the 48 series and 49G (the 49G and G+ apparently don't use the same architecture). Assembly is also possible with the 49G+. I've downloaded the compiler but it'll probably be a while before I get round to trying it out (in fact I got my 49 G+ last summer and have yet to write a single program for it). This is sad to hear. I was thinking of getting a 48GX, but they turned out to be nearly twice as expensive as the 49 G+ a year ago, and they've risen in price since then.
Ah, phooey! I wrote a nice, sensible long reply but somehow it did not post correctly and I can't seem to find it now! So, I will just do a short off-the-cuff reply ("Short" for me is no table of contents, index, and chapters!). I am trying to find out the same information as you are, so I will share what I know of it here. (EDITOR's NOTE: so much for the "short" reply! I can't seem to control myself..... sorry this thing is so long; I didn't realize I had that much to say!) I have over two dozen hp calculators, some of which I already owned or bought on ebay for evaluation and re-sale, but most of which were defectives of some sort, which I bought and repaired to sell on ebay, once I decide which I will keep! It is not easy! My "collection" includes a couple 48G's (exactly the same as Gx without the expansion slots), a couple 49G+'s (an early version and the latest version with a better keyboard and some improvements in the ROM, etc.), 48Sx, 42s, 32SII, 20S, 12C, 11C, 28S, 97, 67, 41cx, 25, 31e, and on and on ...., as well as a couple of the new "cheapies" which are really sad examples of hp products, like the HP-9 and HP-6 models. I also have the HP extended equation card which came with the 48Sx (which I cannot use with the 49G+ because it has no expansion slots, where the 48GX does and can use the card, hence, my dilemma, as I really like this card!) , a couple printers, several worn-out battery packs, and so on...... so I know something about their calculators as relates to this subject at least...... I have not had time to do exhaustive research about software compatibility between the 48Gx and the 49G+, but so far, I am encouraged by what I have read, particularly on the sites that seem to "specialize" in software for these calculators. I don't recall what they are called now as I have only begun to find them and study them, but I am happy to say there are many. From what I have read so far, there are some 48Gx programs which will run on the 49G and 49G+ models, and there seems to be a growing effort to modify or re-program those which need more than small changes. Many of the authors of the software seem interested in upgrading their work for the 49G+, more so when they get requests from people like us! (That goes for freeware, shareware and for-sale software, by the way) I have been able to verify that some of the functions are directly compatible but I understand that some are not; one of the messages I quote later here explains that very well. There seems to be renewed interest in porting software from the 48GX to the 49G+, now that there is a revision of the 49G+ which seems to be of good enough quality to warrant the effort. Of course, as always, there are some who simply will not have anything to do with the 49G+ as it is made in China, by an HP OEM (who also does products for TI, so you know what the quality is like…) who re-designed the hardware and software, probably something to do with making their versions cheaper or perhaps better. HP must address the pricing issue; TI has shown that the only big market remaining for calculators is the education market, and that is too price sensitive for HP to continue to make high-end, high-priced calculators as in the "classics", which are terrific products but do not do well hanging on a rack in a bubble package next to a dozen or so TI, Casio, Sharp, etc., models selling for $10 to just over $100. The traditional markets have "shrunk" to the point where HP has decided they just aren't big enough to justify the costs of creating new models of the "classics" they made in the past, such as the 48 series; and sales will not be high enough for HP to invest when there are so many other markets they sell in with higher returns for that same R&D investment. (I have even had daydreams of the idea of trying to do something about that but I also have doubts about the same factors as HP says they do, although my market size requirements are orders of magnitude less than hp's. The only way it would work would be to make arrangements with HP, perhaps licensing or purchasing the product line, code, etc., or ???, as well as convince them it would not take away profits from their existing and planned product lines, which it very well may. HP also has so many patents on "the good stuff" about their calculators that it would be VERY difficult to simply clone them without HP’s blessing. And, even though I once worked there, and thus have enough of a sense of awe about their products to get involved with something that crazy, and the technical and organizational ability to do it, having started up several companies in the past (one spin-off sold for over $200M, though I did not own any of it by then [weeps unashamedly and vows "never again!"]), I don't have the "clout" to pull anything like that off. Not to mention the money; it would not be any cheaper for me to develop them than it would be for HP! I know of one group which has designed and built a "hobbyist" level HP-25 clone, more for their own hobby than to create a product, but that is all I have ever seen of HP clones in the US. (Wouldn't that be "fun" though? I never dreamed that HP would back out of the calculator business as much as it has. They state publicly that they are in the business to stay and will always support their customers, etc., but one gets the feeling that there is not much enthusiasm within the company for a piece of a product line amounting to "only" maybe $30 million or so; for a company the size of hp, with billions in sales, that is not so much. In my little companies in the past, $30M "hp sales dollars" would be equivalent to a product line of perhaps $10K "Holmes sales dollars", which would hardly be enough to justify the cost of R&D as well as production setup, initial inventories, etc. That gives me perspective which makes me understand why hp sees this market as they do). Having said many words but not saying much or reaching meaningful conclusions, except for gratification of my opinions, I will attempt to get down to business by stating that I really do believe that programs for the 48Gx series will eventually be made compatible with the 49G+, even with the issues which some hp users have with the new, "cheap" calculators like the 49G+ (is $200 retail CHEAP!). It is of course impossible to know what hp plans for the future because they never talk about that in public, but I believe they will either re-commit themselves to the calculator products, now that they are "under new management" (and not being run by the loonies who ramped down the calculator product lines in the first place!), or, they will keep following the trend towards cheaper products targeted for the education markets. I don't believe they will stay on middle ground; they will make a definite decision in one of these directions in the next year or two, although I don't know if they will tell us their decision, then or ever; we may have to deduce it from what they do with the products (or DON'T do with them). Either way, I believe at least the current software will be made compatible with the new models, if the comments I have read on user group threads and articles are indicators). As an example of what I believe will happen, consider the lowly, poorly accepted by the market, 49G (the blue one with the rubber keys, which I ALSO own! I won't sell that one, though; they are going for less than $50 on ebay, sometimes MUCH less!), When the 49G came out, in spite of its shortcomings and low popularity with users such as us, there was quite a bit of work done in this direction even though the 49G was not a well-received product in the marketplace. The keyboard was terrible (as was the first version of the 49G+), and it was not all that fast in some cases, depending on what modes were used, etc. Still, programmers wrote for it, upgrading their earlier work on the 48's as well as creating new software for it. The 49G+ seems to be following that same trend, that is, the existing software is being upgraded and new software is being written, even though, again, the "hard-line" hp users are finding it hard to love. The capability of the 49G+ to use SD memory, at prices orders of magnitude less than for the traditional memory cards of the same capacity for the "classics:, as well as its performance gains and more readable screen than the 48's, all make the 49G+ very attractive, even though it is obviously not up to the mechanical and materials standards of previous hp "classics" which have held up so well over the years. It is clear that, where one 48Gx, for example, had a useful life of ten to twenty years under relatively heavy use, the 49G+ and other models of the current lines will perhaps last only half as long, if not less. BUT, considering the original costs of the 48's and the costs of the current and future calculators, which are bound to be less (you can buy a new 49G+ on ebay for $100 or even less if you shop well!), it is easy to see that one could buy two or three 49's for the cost of one 48 (as far as I remember those costs anyway), so, as far as economies are concerned, the only penalty one pays with the 49's is the inconvenience of transferring files from a worn-out 49 to a new one, which is made quite straight-forward by the use of the SD memory! The 49's have not been around long enough to assess their long-term characteristics, but, if you look inside an hp made in the last 15 years or so, and look inside the new ones, you can see that the construction of the vital parts is not all that different for the two models. Although the esthetics (color, "feel", quality of materials, etc.) are definitely in favor of the older models, I believe the vital parts of the 49's are of better quality than the outside of the package would indicate. I would rather have the power of the 49's in the package of the 48's, but that ain't gonna happen, so, we learn to live with painted cases and screened on key legends, etc. For example, if you look at the hps made in the last 10-15 years, you will find much the same characteristics as are presently being hollered about by disappointed hp users over the 49G+, who are basing their opinions on just a few external complaints. One example: earlier versions of many hp "classic" calculators such as the 30 and 40 series, as well as the 48sx, used such things as double-shot-injected, expensive keys on the keyboards, so the legends went clear through the key and would never wear off, while later versions of the same calculator used screened legends on single-color keys, which would wear off (I have one which has several keys completely worn down to plain brown or black with no visible markings at all), even though the prices and the model numbers did not change, nor were customers told of these changes, as far as I know and remember.) So, those are some of my opinions. There is, of course, much more factual information available at various places on the Internet. If you "google on" some of the phrases which may be used in this question you will find quite a few places which are either forums dedicated to hp calculators in general and/or the 48 and 49 series calculators in particular. One site that offers a brief answer is on "The Museum of HP Calculators", archive 15. Try this link: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv015.cgi?read=85105 One statement made here is: "In general, programs written for 48 series should work on the 49 series, exceptions being such things as global names being built-in commands on the 49 series. The 49 series should be in "approximate" mode when receiving programs written for the 48 series if you don't want "real" numbers (type 0) that happen to be integers to be compiled as exact integers (type 28)." That gives another positive opinion and a little specific information, which is very valuable. For further information, for example, you can look at the HP site itself. I don't know if there is enough information there but there is a page full of links that look like they may hold some promise. One says, for example: "HP Graphing Calculators - Making the HP 49g Series and 48gII Calculator Work Like an HP 48g Calculator". Of course, the HP48G and HP48GX are identical as far as code is concerned. The GX model will allow up to two cards to be plugged into it, while the G model does not have card slots. But anything that makes the 49G+ operate like a 48G will also work the same on a 48GX. The address for this web site is: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/useCategory?product=58443〈=en&cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en& It is actually a 48GX site but it gives quite a bit of information about compaibilities etc. There are many more places on the Internet to look for the information you seek. I won't list any more at the risk of making this message so long it won't be read by anyone! CONCLUSIONS: In my humble opinion, as I have stated elsewhere in this document, I believe that there is enough similarity between the 48GX and the 49G+ to allow most 48GX software to either run as is or to be reasonably modified to run on the 49G+. One fact to consider is simply that the 48GX, while popular and still available at steadily rising prices (especially for NEW units which pop up, or have been held for a higher price, which are listed as high as $500+), is a discontinued product. HP is not going to make any more of them. If your calculator is critical for your work or for your other needs, it is risky at best to depend solely on the 48GX. Vendors, who make commercial software, as well as other programmers, will notice this and will either port their existing software to the 49G+ or will re-write it as they see fit. If they wish to keep their sales up, they must supply software for the current calculator models which will sell at much higher rates than the used 48's will be sold for, simply because the 48's are out of production and the 49's are in production. I am also very impressed with the speed of the 49G+ as well as the SD memory capability. The SD memory is getting cheaper all the time; if you buy the micro size package and use the converter that comes with it, you can get prices as low as $20 for new 512 MB memory! Of course, as with all the HP calculators, including the 48GX, all that memory is not linear; you must put programs and data into memory above the system RAM as files etc., and retrieve them for use when needed. But that is something we are all used to regardless of which model we are using; the methods and commands may be different (for example I don't believe the 49G+ uses the PORT command structure etc. It appears to use the extra memory something like a disk drive, in that you read and write to it as you would to a disk, at least that is my feeling. I am not an expert and I could be stating something which is not entirely valid because I have not gotten deep enough into the 49G+ to find out more, so be sure to look at other sources of information, especially the comments and articles by those who have written successful software for these machines.) I have taken the time to do all this because I also need to know the answers to the questions you ask and those that are implied along with them. For various reasons I need to characterize the various models more thoroughly than a typical sales feature chart from HP does. This is for my work as well as my hobbies but most importantly for the applications I will choose to solve. I know I am much more familiar with this subject now than I was a couple of hours ago, so it has been worthwhile for me to do. I hope I have helped more than confused you! Normally I would edit something like this, improving its organization and usually reducing its size by taking out all the editorial comments I tend to make etc. But I don't have time so I hope you can wade through all this to your benefit. Please, if I have made errors, correct me! I need to know the answers to the questions you've asked as well as you do! And I do actually have some far-out dreams and ideas about what to do about the 48GX/49G+ compatibility issues, involving cloning the classic calculators or probably more feasibly, solving the problems with the new ones and compatibility with the classics. This is not as crazy as it may seem; I have been on disability for several years due to some problems with my eyesight and some other health issues which required a number of surgeries etc, so I am in need of “something to do” which will occupy my mind and my time (for now; I hope to be back on my feet later this year). I am not so “disabled” that I cannot work on such projects but I am not quite ready to go back to work yet, so why not use this opportunity to try some ideas I probably will never again get the chance to try because of the need to work full time! As they say around here, “Aw, what the heck!” The worst I can do is make a fool of myself, and I've done that very successfully before. Besides, it would be "fun"! best regards, Larry Holmes aka "kosimov"
DaleSpam: I have both Mathematica & MathCad7, the poor man’s alternative to Mathematica. While those programs have orders of magnitude more features & capabilities than a calculator, they are just not as handy for some purposes. Portability is the obvious advantage of a hand calculator. Another very critical advantage is the ability to do immediate calculations with a minimum of planning and typing. Functions like y<sup>x</sup>, SquareRoot, trig. functions et cetera are evaluated by pushing one button. BTW: I became very familiar with MathCad before obtaining a student version of Mathematica, which cost very little at a PC show. I installed Mathematica, but have yet to use it. I do not have a manual and it seems to refuse to yield to my attempts to hack it. Oddly enough, I was able to hack MathCad without using the manual. Every time I try Mathematica, I end up falling back on MathCad. Kosimov: Thank you for your detailed reply to my questions. Larry Holmes is not an uncommon name, so I doubt that you are my friend, a bridge player who lives in Philadelphia. I am always amused at those who find RPN & Stack architecture difficult. I now have two HP48GX’s & one HP48G+ Due to a remark in your post, my HP48G+ has just become much more valuable to me. The cover which hides the infrared port was so difficult to remove that I did not know it was removable. Now that I found the infrared port, I can easily copy all the programs from my 48GX to the 48G+. I was procrastinating about doing this backup because I thought I would have to rekey all the code. I wrote a dozen or so programs which I would hate to lose. When one of my 48GX’s got a bit unreliable, I started to worry about backing up the programs. A long time ago, I had a cable and software alleged to allow copying from HP48GX to a PC and vice versa. It was a DOS program which did not seem to work for me. I assumed that it was not usable on modern Windows systems. I have a lot of DOS software, much of which will not run under a modern Windows OS. Might you have an opinion on this issue? I think I still have that cable and diskette somewhere. I intend to someday build a DOS system, mostly due to nostalgia. There are some very interesting DOS programs which cannot run on a modern system due to lack of compatibility with ISA Video Controllers and sound cards. Motherboards with ISA slots are still available, and I think I can find some old ISA sound cards & video controllers. It will be an interesting project. I wrote a Visual Basic program which provides some of the HP functionality. It is actually fairly handy for quick calculations when my 48GX is not nearby. I originally intended to do a full emulation of the HP48GX, but decided that the task required far more time & effort than I was willing to expend. Writing a compiler for the HP source language is a formidable task. Many years ago, I wrote a compiler for a mainframe and am aware of how much effort is required. Once again: Thanx for your reply. It provided some very useful data.
Try DOSBox: http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1. It's a free (and open source) DOS emulator that works way better than the DOS prompt provided with Windows nowadays, though I've never tried using peripherals or networking with it. There are versions that run under Linux and Mac OS X. You should also be able to find connectivity kit software for Windows on HP's website (I found this by searching for "48gx" on the HP website search engine - It's not a featured product anymore, so I don't know if there's another way of finding the site). Actually, I think it's the same software they use for connectivity with the 49G+. --- By the way, my only gripe with the HP 49G+ I've got is that there seems to be a small bit of dust or something stuck under the screen. It really bugs me, as I keep trying to wipe it off (which doesn't work, of course). Anyone know if there's a way I can get it out without disassembling the thing?
I agree about the convenience. My kids, for some unknown reason, think my 48GX is a cool toy, so it is never around when I need it. It always irritates me to have to start up Mathematica to do simple arithmetic. Mathematica has an extensive online help that is very good. It has sections that are organized by topic and sections that are organized by function and it is all thourogly cross referenced. That said, the learning curve is admittedly steep, but I personally think that the effort is well worth it. I have used it for doing everything from checking my homework to evaluating arbitrary-precision numerical calculations to running a genetic algorithm in parallel across a cluster of networked computers to physics simulations to preparing figures for manuscripts or presentations. It is my "swiss army knife". -Dale
Ah memories... I used to have a TI-89, and let me tell you what, that calculator was a wonder to behold. It could do everything! It was cruelly stolen from me by enemies of science. Now I've always liked doing integrals by hand, but this loss was still devastating. Later I found an old TI-36 solar powered calculator that became my new workhorse. I really liked that calculator; there was just something about the fact that it was solar powered. If you were faced with restarting science after a nuclear war, this ol' TI-36 was the kind of calculator you would want by your side. I lost that one too. These days I do my integrals and many of my calculations by hand. One thing is for sure, you get good at estimation. It is a source of some pride actually. Haha. I mean after all, most kids can't even integrate by hand these days what with Mathematica and friends floating around. Here endeth the ramble.
Przyk: Thanks for the advice. I downloaded DOSbox some time ago, but have not tried it yet. The better DOS programs functioned almost like an OS. They controlled the video & sound cards directly. Several of the programs I am interested in initialize the first time you run them by providing a list of video cards and asking which one you have. They then install the driver for that controller. I have installed various versions of DOS on a Multi-OS system, and discovered that those programs just cannot function with a modern video controller. I have tried lying by selecting various videao cards. The drivers never worked with PCI or AGP cards. A friend of mine claimed to have used DOSbox to run such programs and said that he could not get them to work. It would surprise me if an emulator could do better than the actual DOS program. DaleSpam: I must give Mathematica another try. It is supposed to be a lot better than MathCad. So far MathCad has not failed to do anything I tired, but there is always the urge to use the best possible tool.
Hi Dinosaur, There are a bunch of free and open source CASs you can play around with, if you haven't already tried them out. I'm new to computer algebra, and I'm having fun downloading some systems to try them out. I don't expect I'll actually need or use them much for another 2 to 3 years. There's Maxima, for example. The Maxima website also links to some other systems. There's also a list of systems on wikipedia. Just thought I'd post the link for reference - odds are, you already know about them anyway. It could never do better than DOS running on a 286, but it may be able to provide an emulation layer to allow old programs to work on new hardware - something you won't get if you just try to install an old version of DOS on a modern machine. DOSBox is still under development, so they might add stuff like this if they haven't already. I can't really speak from experience though when it comes to running old DOS apps - I was 5 years old when they released Windows 3.1.
