View Full Version : Greece


Xev
09-07-04, 12:13 AM
Since the subject never dies:

Greece is a charming country, when it isn't annoying the shit out of you. Her artistic heights seem passed - but those previous (the Mycenaean in particular) were often expressions of this charm, all colour and decoration.

Greek art history is dominated by the study of the Classical period – not only does this do a disservice to the incredible works which predate this period, but it is misleading to consider contemporary Greek culture from this standpoint. The Minoans come closest to a modern Greek attitude – their works are colourful and functional, with an unconscious grace that the modern Greek women retain.

Greek women are in themselves works of art. The best of them are calm, cool and feminine without being annoying or girlish. They are confident, not in the bratty way which American women use to feign confidence, but confident as if they've never doubted their beauty. This is presumably an act, but a very convincing one – although Greek culture is incredibly materialistic, Greek women are materialistic in a way that charms the senses.

I see nothing in modern Greeks that could evoke the cool, logical and graceful forms which characterized the Classical periods. I frankly don't know how the hell that happened.
Perhaps the hypothesis one of their charming TV-personalities puts up is correct: the ancient Greeks were from Sirius. In any case, the original Sirians have returned home. Modern Greeks are excitable and demanding but can be easily placated – in a word, they are childlike. One stares at these people and thinks

“Wait, their ancestors invented philosophy?”

Decay is inevitable, and centuries of Turkish and Greek Orthodox rule have not helped any. Turkish influence is blatant in much of their music and language, less so in their more modern architecture. This is because the Turks, never really inventing anything themselves, simply copied Byzantine and Persian styles. The Byzantine is fairly well preserved in Greece, although there are relatively few surviving examples from before the 17-1800s. In fact, even the most modern Greek churches show obvious Byzantine style. Which is charming. Most Greek art is charming, when it doesn't annoy the shit out of you.

Their popular music does. Not that that's strictly art, but it ought to be covered. Greek pop is basically rip-offs of MTV-clones with some Turkish influence. Absolutely atrocious. Excepting Xenakis, their modern composers basically suck. But then, most modern composers should really go back to their jobs at Starbucks and quit trying to earn money on a liberal arts degree. The one thing Greeks are quite good at musically is black metal. The Greeks have a melancholic dimension expressed through this music – basically, heavy metal with romantic inspiration. Not charming, but very Good. There is also traditional Greek music, although not Greek in origin but from Asia Minor. This is difficult to describe – very reliant on strings, low on bass and very harmonic. It's eerie and sad, and incredible.

This sadness is the closest the modern Greeks come to being discontent. Discontent is bred from unfulfilled passion, and they are certainly not a people of strong passions. Like all people of tepid passion (also like some of the colder races, although the Greeks are by no means cold) they are sentimental. Not in the annoying Hallmark way, but in the equally annoying way of making fuss over trivial matters. One notices this most in their modern art – the focus is often on people, people, people. Give Tolstoy a camera and you have Greek visual art.
While sentimental, they are not a cold or a very logical people. On the contrary, they are quite excitable – making fuss and pretense over triviality, given to fads and faddish behavior. The saving virtue is that they are easily placated, like children.
Charming. Then cloying.

sargentlard
09-07-04, 12:28 AM
I presume these observations are from your vacation? wrong?

I also presume you use the word charming repeatedly on purpose?

Greek women are in themselves works of art. The best of them are calm, cool and feminine without being annoying or girlish. They are confident, not in the bratty way which American women use to feign confidence, but confident as if they've never doubted their beauty. This is presumably an act, but a very convincing one – although Greek culture is incredibly materialistic, Greek women are materialistic in a way that charms the senses.

Upon further reading I found this interesting.

Would you mind explaining further?

WANDERER
09-07-04, 12:42 PM
XEV
Greek women are in themselves works of art. The best of them are calm, cool and feminine without being annoying or girlish. They are confident, not in the bratty way which American women use to feign confidence, but confident as if they've never doubted their beauty. This is presumably an act, but a very convincing one – although Greek culture is incredibly materialistic, Greek women are materialistic in a way that charms the senses. They are also quit snobby.
Funny thing is, the same can be said about the guys.

I see nothing in modern Greeks that could evoke the cool, logical and graceful forms which characterized the Classical periods. I frankly don't know how the hell that happened.
Perhaps the hypothesis one of their charming TV-personalities puts up is correct: the ancient Greeks were from Sirius. In any case, the original Sirians have returned home. Modern Greeks are excitable and demanding but can be easily placated – in a word, they are childlike. One stares at these people and thinks

“Wait, their ancestors invented philosophy?”
My reaction was: “Wait their ancestors were Hellenes?”
But looking at modern day Egyptians I can exclaim: “They’re the ancestors of ancient Egypt?”

Jeez, if only the Sirian connection were true.

Decay is inevitable, and centuries of Turkish and Greek Orthodox rule have not helped any. Turkish influence is blatant in much of their music and language, less so in their more modern architecture. This is because the Turks, never really inventing anything themselves, simply copied Byzantine and Persian styles. The Byzantine is fairly well preserved in Greece, although there are relatively few surviving examples from before the 17-1800s. In fact, even the most modern Greek churches show obvious Byzantine style. Which is charming. Most Greek art is charming, when it doesn't annoy the shit out of you.Not only is Byzantium art well represented but, it could be said, that it is alive and well.
There are no churches from before a certain period because Turkish rule ended in 1821.

As for the Turkish influence I would say that modern Greeks are much more similar to their eastern neighbours than to their western ones.

Their popular music does. Not that that's strictly art, but it ought to be covered. Greek pop is basically rip-offs of MTV-clones with some Turkish influence. Absolutely atrocious. Excepting Xenakis, their modern composers basically suck. But then, most modern composers should really go back to their jobs at Starbucks and quit trying to earn money on a liberal arts degree. The one thing Greeks are quite good at musically is black metal. I don’t know about the Black Metal part but there are a few very interesting modern-day composers in Greece.
You have to know the language to appreciate them, though.
Unfortunately they are buried under a heap of trash and become drops of nectar in a sea of shit.
But that's true of every place and every culture.

The Greeks have a melancholic dimension expressed through this music – basically, heavy metal with romantic inspiration. Not charming, but very Good. There is also traditional Greek music, although not Greek in origin but from Asia Minor. This is difficult to describe – very reliant on strings, low on bass and very harmonic. It's eerie and sad, and incredible.
A good way to describe the overall Greek spirit: eerie, sad and incredible.
It comes from being so much and becoming so little.
A concept only civilizations of a certain age can appreciate.

This sadness is the closest the modern Greeks come to being discontent. Discontent is bred from unfulfilled passion, and they are certainly not a people of strong passions. Like all people of tepid passion (also like some of the colder races, although the Greeks are by no means cold) they are sentimental. Not in the annoying Hallmark way, but in the equally annoying way of making fuss over trivial matters. One notices this most in their modern art – the focus is often on people, people, people. Give Tolstoy a camera and you have Greek visual art.
While sentimental, they are not a cold or a very logical people. On the contrary, they are quite excitable – making fuss and pretense over triviality, given to fads and faddish behavior. The saving virtue is that they are easily placated, like children.
Charming. Then cloying.
Charming is an accurate term, because it captures the momentary attraction followed by the need to flee so precisely.
The same effect children have over me.

sargentlard
Upon further reading I found this interesting.

Would you mind explaining further?She means they possessed voluptuous bosoms, round spherical rumps, soft silky hair and firm clear skin.
They dress immaculately but not too whorish, move with gracefulness and ease knowing they are being watched continuously and knowing the full effect of this on the men around them and the power they posses in using it.

Does it make you salivate?

Xev
09-07-04, 04:09 PM
sargentlard:
Yes, they're personal observations. And yes, I did that on purpose. Like a leitmotif.
Do you find it overly repetitive?

Upon further reading I found this interesting.

Would you mind explaining further?

Explaining what, Greek women or their materialism?
The whole culture is basically focused on having nice things, a nice job, a high social status, etc. Greek women (like most women) are perfectly happy to trade their looks for some of these things, but the way they do it is so honest and up front that it's pleasant.
I'm limited here, I'm not a lesbian and I don't know the language, but they're honestly egoistic. "I want nice things, and I'm willing to use my looks and charm to get them"

If you mean, in general why did I find them so lovely, I can't put it precisely into words. Wanderer's off in saying it's how they look. No offense to them, but as a rule, they're not particularly attractive, pretty flat-chested actually.
It's more that they're incredibly graceful, and give no indication of trying to be so. It's as if they possess some innate femininity that prohibits them from being awkward or ungainly.

Wanderer:
They are also quit snobby.

They deserve to be.
Plus anyone dealing with Greek men would have to either seem unapproachable or carry incredible amounts of mace. Greek men are genetically incapable of fidelity, boring, unintellectual, shallow, stuck-up, effemiate wussyboys who are congenitally incapable of knowing how to treat a woman.

Funny thing is, the same can be said about the guys.

No it can't. Greek women inspire the mind, Greek men inspire nausea.

I don’t know about the Black Metal part but there are a few very interesting modern-day composers in Greece.
You have to know the language to appreciate them, though.

Not really. One doesn't have to know German to appreciate Beethovan's "Ode to Joy".
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah-baba"
Still works.

But that's true of every place and every culture.

Right, modern composers suck as a rule. I suspect the classical ones did too, but Heidelberg Sphincter's "Concerto auf Schiess" is no longer preserved while the Brandenburg Concertos are.

WANDERER
09-08-04, 09:05 AM
XEV
They deserve to be.
Plus anyone dealing with Greek men would have to either seem unapproachable or carry incredible amounts of mace. Greek men are genetically incapable of fidelity, boring, unintellectual, shallow, stuck-up, effemiate wussyboys who are congenitally incapable of knowing how to treat a woman. HEEEEY!!!!
Is that a crack against me?!!!!!!
:mad:

No it can't. Greek women inspire the mind, Greek men inspire nausea. Some would say they are kind of cute.
Uhhhh….but…..I wouldn’t know.
:o

Not really. One doesn't have to know German to appreciate Beethovan's "Ode to Joy".
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah-baba"
Still works.Song is more than music.
It is also lyrics.

Xev
09-08-04, 12:16 PM
Wanderer:
HEEEEY!!!!
Is that a crack against me?!!!!!!

It isn't unless you see yourself in the description.

Some would say they are kind of cute.
Uhhhh….but…..I wouldn’t know.

Hmm yes, scrawny effemiate men with scrunched-up faces that make them look like whoever shaped them pinched their noses up too tight in the forming are hotttt.

Song is more than music.
It is also lyrics.

If a song can't stand on the music alone, it's crap.