The Eternal Debate:

Kirk v. Picard (and Sisco and Janeway...)

I affirm Kirk far surpassed the other captains. For the following reason:

1. He had balls. Not simple courage, but -balls-. He could take the fight to the enemy and knew how to break the rules to get what he needed. From his Star Fleet days to his days as a captain, he knew that it was who had the biggest cajones that won the day more often than not.

2. He had a power of command. No other Star Trek captain engendered the same sort of loyalty in his subordinates. He had a masterful control of his people. He could expect them to perform and they did.

3. He was more human than the other captains. He had thoughts and ideals and didn't live in a sanitized era that basically raped most captains of any vestiges of masculinity. He also knew a good woman when he saw one.

4. He loved what he did - not just starfleet. He loved being a -captain- of a -vessel- in -space-. He didn't just fight for starfleet, or explored because of some vague, scientific mission, but because he loved to do so. He was a pioneer in the true sense of the word.

5. He recognized the utility of violence and used it. He did not hide behind a nonsensical pacifism. He knew that some conflicts needed the sword.

The only captain to come close to Kirk is Sisco. And Sisco was still distant enough to not even be in Kirk's league.

Kiiiiirk.

From the heart of Hell I stab at thee!
For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!

Kiiiiiiirk.
My old friend, Kiiiiiirk.


Favorite bit:
Kobayashi Maru.

Favorite Parody:
Captain's Log:
http://memory-alpha.org/en/images/thumb/2/2e/Kirk-captains_log-family_guy.jpg/180px-Kirk-captains_log-family_guy.jpg


Of course, Khan might count as a Star Trek captain? In that case... Khan rules.

Absolutely. The man also made a superior toasted sandwich as well - so moiiiiist, so deliiiicuiiiioos.... Ricardo rocks. http://www.sciforums.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

Ricardo Monteban is indeed the man.

Consider: Kirk v/s Picard in a death match. Picard would try to reason with Kirk, always viewing violence as a last resort. Kirk would see this as an opportunity and move in for the death blow.

... Or shag him. Y'see, the Kirk has all the options in this scenario. Ricardo Monteban, on the other hand, would pick the pair of them up by the scruff of their necks, both at the same time mind, stick slug-things in their ears and rustle himself a deliiiiiiciiiiioos chicken Cesar sandwich whilst Kirk and Picard went off and did his bidding...

There's just no competition here. Ricardo is. The man.

Hey, Khan was pretty cool. But don't forget, Kirk defeated him due to his two dimensional thinking.

Khan was only defeated because the Starship he stole wasn't outfitted with rich corinthian leather.

That and the fact he mislaid his sandwich...

(Actually, I think Khan was only defeated due to the magic of the script. In reality, Khan would have eaten Kirk for breakfast and made corinthian leather seat covers out of his skin.

But, hell, regardless of victory or defeat. Khan did it with style.)

Meh! He got lucky. Kirk only won by hacking Kahn off enough to want to chase him into that nebula. If Spock hadn't have been prepared to sacrifice himself for the good of the many, the many would have been even more, everywhere, all at the same time... Kirk included.

Luck, no thinking at all. Ricardo ran him ragged the entire film. So what if he was wearing rubber tits and a wig, he was damn manly with it and his wig looked a damn sight more convincing than Kirks - Ha!

Its really hard to compare them, a lot of things are debatable. As far as fighting goes Picard wasn't shown originally as a violent guy, but he could nail it to someone when needed. Kirk was more depicted as crude, and straight forward not afraid to fire a torpedo without a second thought. They both used diplomacy, and both did outstanding jobs in fighting enemies. Kirk with the klingons and romulans, picard with the borg and romulans. Kirk was also a lady's man, Picard was more of a gentlemen. If there's any real difference between the two, maybe its that Kirk is impulsive and Picard likes to think things through.....but....

Sisko would beat them both, hands down. A son of the Prophets? He's awesome. When Q showed up and annoyed him? He punched the guy in the face, it was hilarious!(if you remember that episode). Sisko was a man of power and diplomacy. He also knew when the right time was to break the rules. He seems to have blended qualities of both of them. He had to make ties with the romulans and klingons. And true he never delt with the borg, but he had to face the dominion, who was a lot more aggressive than the Borg, and lets not forget the Cardassians. He also designed the defiant, the federation's first war ship.

The history of the shows I think speak for themselves. Kirk was always getting into some kind of trouble, in or out of the uniform. Picard was the goody two shoes rule follower. Sisko...was the guy who did things and got away with it. He just -made- things happen. He's the smart one.

Something maybe not too much to do with just the comparison between the captains, is their resources, which I find interesting. The crew makes the captain a good one. scotty for kirk, laforge for picard, o'brian for sisko. The Prophets for sisko, Q for picard(who isn't normally dependable anyway), Kirk doesn't have an omnipower ally that I can recall at the moment. Spock for kirk, data for picard, dax(who might be wise but lets face it, a trill is no vulcan)for sisko. Worf came to DS9 to be under Sisko's command, too. And he started on the Enterprise.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Oh and Janeway? Ahh who cares. =D

Keep in mind though guys, I haven't seen all of the original episodes. I might have made an error somewhere in there, but I've seen the rest of the other series except for missing a few seasons of voyager. I do own all of the movies and have watched them religiously though.

If you guys haven't read this, its incredibly humorous. I can't read it and keep from laughing.

The 100 Reasons Why Kirk is Better Than Picard.


100. Kirk is a leader, not a follower.
99. Kirk never really got into that kinky "Jumpsuit" look.
98. Kirk has sex more than once a season.
97. One Word: Hair.
96. Another Word: Pretty-good-looking-can't-see-the-weave-WIG.
95. Kirk can beat up a Klingon bare-handed.
94. Picard is a French man with an English accent.
93. Kirk would date Beverly Crusher -- and damn the consequences!!
92. Kirk never drinks tea. Ever.
91. Diplomacy for Kirk is a phaser and a smirk.
90. Kirk would personally throw Wesley off his bridge.
89. Two words: Shoulder Roll.
88. Kirk doesn't wear dresses when admirals arrive for lunch.
87. Kirk once said: "I've got a belly-ache -- and it's a beauty."
86. Kirk would never sing to children in a crisis.
85. Kirk can almost drive a stick shift.
84. Kirk, almost single-handedly, re-populated the Earth's whale
population.
83. Kirk says "Prime Directive? What Prime Directive?"
82. Kirk knows 20th Century curses.
81. Kirk was NEVER infiltrated by the Borg and used against the
Federation.
80. Kirk ate little coloured cubes and still remained relatively healthy.
79. Kirk made do with obviously low performance technology.
78. Kirk never pretends to be a barber in order to gain a tactical
advantage.
77. Kirk wasn't shy about taking his shirt off
--even around those pesky Yeomans.
76. Kirk would never waste a holodeck on something stupid like Dixon Hill.
75. Kirk never once stood up and had to straighten his shirt.
74. One Word: Velour.
73. Kirk can beat a Vulcan at Chess.
72. When Kirk was Picard's age, he retired from Admiral and took to
climbing rocks.
71. When Picard was 37, he was only Captain of the lowly freighter,
Stargazer. When Kirk was 37, he was Captain of the flagship
Enterprise.
70. Kirk liked a good belt of liquor every now and again.
69. One Word: Iman.
68. Kirk looks good with a ripped shirt.
67. If Kirk ever met a Ferengi, he would rip off its head and shit down
its neck.
66. Kirk says "Shoot first and wait for retaliation."
65. Kirk's first officer NEVER tells him to stay on the bridge.
64. Kirk never leaves the room to bawl somebody out.
63. Kirk doesn't rely on the wisdom of some dumb old
janitor to get him out of intergalactic scrapes.
62. Two Words: Funky Sideburns.
61. Kirk never asks his bartender for advice.
60. Kirk never once said "Abandon ship! All hands abandon ship!"
59. Kirk is not politically correct.
58. Kirk never got "dumped" by a woman for an intergalactic busy body named
after a letter of the alphabet.
57. Kirk never wore green tights and frolicked about in Sherwood Forest.
56. If there was ever a Klingon on Kirk's bridge, Kirk would likely be
dead.
55. Ever hear of a bar shooter called "Make it so?" No? How about a
"Beam me up Scotty" then? See the difference?
54. One Word: Miniskirts.
53. Kirk's girlfriends always look good in soft light.
52. Kirk never went anywhere without a whole bunch of guys in red
shirts.
51. Kirk's first officer didn't play some wimpy instrument like the
trombone.
50. Kirk had more dates than his first officer.
49. The extent of Kirk's knowledge of Klingon vocabulary can be roughly
translated as "GO F*CK YOURSELF."
48. If something doesn't speak English -- it's toast.
47. Kirk wasn't some prissy archaeology fan.
46. Picard's middle name isn't tough or awe-inspiring like Tiberius is.
45. If Kirk finds a strange spinning probe, he blows it up.
44. Picard never met Joan Collins.
43. Picard flunked his entrance exams to Starfleet.
42 Picard hasn't fathered any children; Kirk -- probably millions.
41. Kirk has a cool phaser -- not some pansy Braun mix-master.
40. Two Words: Line Delivery.
39. Picard grew up on a quaint little French vineyard, squishing grapes
with his toes, while Kirk slung bails of wheat and hay
in Iowa to put himself through school.
38. Kirk emphasizes his orations with pertinent hand gestures.
37. Kirk once made a cannon out of bamboo, sulphur, potassium nitrate,
charcoal and then fired diamonds into the hearts of his
enemies. (Need we say more?)
36. Kirk is not put off by green skin.
35. Kirk knows how to deal with peace loving hippy goofs.
34. Kirk once fought a Greek god. And won.
33. Kirk barely asks for suggestions. And if he does, he asks Spock only.
32. Kirk doesn't let the doctor tell him what to do.
31. One Word: Fisticuffs.
30. Kirk's name is hated throughout the galaxy.
29. Kirk appreciates Shakespeare, but he doesn't let it show.
28. You can never lock up Kirk for very long.
27. Kirk's eulogies can actually make you cry.
26. Kirk plays god with lesser cultures, and then exploits them for
resources.
25. Kirk's son would never drop out to become a musician.
24. Kirk can climb up a Jeffries Tube and fix anything.
23. Kirk never hired an engineer with punk glasses.
22. The Klingons didn't have a word for surrender -- until they met Kirk.
21. Kirk's bridge is not beige.
20.Two Words: Crane Shots.
19. Picard likes wimpy violin music -- and coerces Data into playing it.
18. Picard allows cats on board, while Kirk beams away even really cute
things, like Tribbles.
17. Kirk is a cultural icon -- Picard is just some guy who's really nice.
16. Kirk specifically ordered a swivel LA-Z-BOY for the bridge.
15. Kirk would never touch SYNTHAHOL.
14. Kirk looks distinguished in reading glasses -- and nobody dares to
call him"four eyes."
13. Kirk can infiltrate Gangsters, Nazis, and even the Pentagon -- easily.
12. Picard likes painting nudes, for art's sake.
11. When Kirk doesn't trust the Romulans, he fires at them. When Picard
doesn't trust the Romulans, he gets fired at.
10. Kirk never once, ever,wore a wiener wrapping Speedo banana hammock on
shore leave.
9. Kirk never gets his command codes locked out by some pimply acting
ensign.
8. Kirk doesn't test the engines -- he just fires them up.
7. When Kirk says "Boldly Go," he MEANS it.
6. Three Words: Flying Leg Kick
5. Picard's crew would never ever think of him as a sexual object.
4. Kirk traveled through The Great Barrier, met God, and wasn't even
impressed.
3. Kirk's bedroom is a passion pit with electric sheets.
2. Kirk would never let his Chief of Security wear a ponytail.
1. One Word: Balls.

FluX:

That was a HILARIOUS and utterly truthful list of why Kirk is the best captain.

However, I do agree that Sisco was an excellent captain himself. HIm finally forcing the Federation to use war ships was also quite the plus.

i have both the original series and the next generation on DVD.
i consider the next generation more watchable.

See I use to like TNG a lot too. But a few weeks ago I caught like four episodes of the original series back to back, that were airing on nick at night. They were running a marathon. *_*

TNG is what I grew up with, and its an awesome show. But there's elements of the original series that I think no other series could ever live up to. There's this awesome symbolism, that has a lot to say about the world at the time the series came out. Gene Roddenberry was brilliant I think. Star Trek itself i think is where he thinks human beings should be, a possible future for man. Its an interesting concept. The original series incorporated a lot of unity. There was a black woman, an alien, an asian, a russian and a white captain. Pretty cool idea to cast those kinds of people for a show in the 60's. I read somewhere that Uhura wanted to leave the show originally, but she was contacted by MLK and he told her she was making a powerful message for african americans in the united states, so she stayed. That's pretty cool.

TNG had some of the same elements, I think particularly centering around Data. With the rate of our technology its safe to assume we're possible of creating AI and giving it a will of its own. Data often had troubles in the series dealing with people who didn't believe he was a "life form" because he was a robot. I think maybe a lot of that was to ask the question to the viewers "what necessarily constitutes life?".

I love Kirk. But Shatner is an ass. There's no other way to say it! I saw a show on tv a few weeks ago that was called "How William Shatner changed the World". I mean are you kidding me!?! He was an actor! he didn't -create- star trek! Gah!

I can't believe he got away with it.


Now the question in my mind is this. What's the best Star Trek movie? Which one really presented itself for all of its ideas, combined with acting, some action, special effects, etc. ?

I have seen Kirk get thrown by a enemy, but only once. I've seen Picard when a enemy had him wondering how many lights he was seeing. Sisco was alright, but I have never liked the actor that play the part, and Janeway was a joke.

Now the question in my mind is this. What's the best Star Trek movie? Which one really presented itself for all of its ideas, combined with acting, some action, special effects, etc. ?
Wrath of Khan

Now the question in my mind is this. What's the best Star Trek movie? Which one really presented itself for all of its ideas, combined with acting, some action, special effects, etc. ?
there are three in my opinion.
star trek 6 the undiscovered country.
and the first, star trek the motion picture.

of TNG i liked insurrection

The Voyage Home, for one reason:

My friend here had too much LDS in the 60's.
You mean LSD?
Yes, LSD.

there are three in my opinion.
star trek 6 the undiscovered country.
and the first, star trek the motion picture.

of TNG i liked insurrection
The first movie sucked. Basically, the even numbered movies were better than the odds. I don't know why, but that rule hold thru the whole series of movies.

Now the question in my mind is this. What's the best Star Trek movie? Which one really presented itself for all of its ideas, combined with acting, some action, special effects, etc. ?

Wrath of Khan - It's pretty much got everything the original series had about it without loosing sight of what it was supposed to be - an affectionate, character driven science fiction show with a great deal of heart too it. Wrath of Khan's one of those rare animals where you didn't particularly have to be a fan of the show to get into the film and enjoy it yet it still managed to entertain and enthral the die-hard fan - The Voyage Home and First Contact come close equal seconds largely on the same basis.

All three have the same essential ingredients - plenty of action: not overly complex plot: easy, accessible premises: great ensemble performances all round.

On the whole I always thought the original series cast films made a better stab at actually making movies than their TNG cast counterparts - Generations aside, largely what followed tended to be cantered towards extending the post-OS television franchise into the cinema arena where as, with the original cast efforts, the emphasis remained very focused on making movies first and foremost, touching bases with an ever increasing and lucrative television market second.

That being said of course the TNG cast movies tended to be tighter, more focused in direction and delivered generally speaking better overall plots - shame they only got four shots at it and the last two in the series followed an almost interchangeable formulae between one another more or less scene by scene.

With Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock you can largely give it a miss and end up not particularly missing terribly much - Star Trek 5: The Final Frontier is actually a good deal more jolly than people often make out, all shortcomings concerning Billy Shits directorial abilities aside, it actually quite fun. Star Trek: The Motion Picture lives up to its title entirely and actually gets a lot better on second or third viewing. Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered Country - highly enjoyable romp, a little too self consciously the last as far as that particular cast remain concerned, but nevertheless an admirable note to bow out on.

All in all, ST3 remains the weakest but they're all pretty well enjoyable, Wrath of Khan being the best all rounder.

Kirk! by all means Kirk!

i would trust picard around my daughters, can't say the same for kirk.

I see. I'd agree with some of you for the most part.

My favorites include The Voyage Home(Klingon Bird of Prey instead of the same ship, and then the feeling that is inspired in every person when they see that the federation has re-built the enterprise, and time travel, always awesome, and their interaction with people in the 21st century). Also, The Wrath of Kahn. V was pretty good, it was action packed, different a little than the others, and still had some issues addressing the idea of God. VI was political in my opinion, although it was the very first star trek movie I ever viewed in theatres.


Out of the new series, I liked Generations for the union of Picard and Kirk, almost a "passing of the torch" so to speak. The movie had a lot to say, Kirk dies, and so does another Enterprise. I actually also enjoyed the music by Dennis McCarthy, it was new, and enlightening in a sense. Ironically, also the first CD i ever bought(good god I'm such a geek). I do think First Contact surpassed Generations, I liked it a lot. Insurrection I didn't care for too much, and Nemesis......... Eh. It was good to see the cast back together, but Data was destroyed, and we're left with this B-4(Down Syndrome Data), Riker and Troy marry and leave the ship, and Worf is already on DS9. So the ending of TNG series movie wise, is so far below the ending of the original movies.

Uhura - "Captain...I'm getting a transmission from Star Fleet Command....we are to return to the nearest starbase...and be decommissioned"
Ensign - "Course heading, sir?"
Kirk - "second star to the right....and straight on until morning"


B-4 - *stares blankly, confused, unintelligently glancing at everything*
Picard *explains to B-4 the details of Data*

What a horrible way to end another crew under the name Enterprise.

The Eternal Debate:

Kirk v. Picard (and Sisco and Janeway...)

I affirm Kirk far surpassed the other captains. For the following reason:

1. He had balls. Not simple courage, but -balls-. He could take the fight to the enemy and knew how to break the rules to get what he needed. From his Star Fleet days to his days as a captain, he knew that it was who had the biggest cajones that won the day more often than not.

2. He had a power of command. No other Star Trek captain engendered the same sort of loyalty in his subordinates. He had a masterful control of his people. He could expect them to perform and they did.

3. He was more human than the other captains. He had thoughts and ideals and didn't live in a sanitized era that basically raped most captains of any vestiges of masculinity. He also knew a good woman when he saw one.

4. He loved what he did - not just starfleet. He loved being a -captain- of a -vessel- in -space-. He didn't just fight for starfleet, or explored because of some vague, scientific mission, but because he loved to do so. He was a pioneer in the true sense of the word.

5. He recognized the utility of violence and used it. He did not hide behind a nonsensical pacifism. He knew that some conflicts needed the sword.

The only captain to come close to Kirk is Sisco. And Sisco was still distant enough to not even be in Kirk's league.

Well lookie here...Prince James was inspired to start a Captains thread

I maintain Janeway (as I said before) because:

1. She had balls. Big ones for someone who biologically does not HAVE a set. She sacrificed 'herself' to murder the Borg Queen...how's that for cajones?

2. She had the power of command, nobody was ever willing to back chat Janeway. Spock fought Kirk physically already (Pon Farr, Schmon Farr...Chakotay never dared hit Janeway because he was horny)

3. Considering Kirk, Picard and Janeway, she is the only captain that actually had a stable personal life ("hubby and dog with a picket fence house"). And she was still able to hold personal and starfleet ideals even stranded away from him. I don't have the heart to put Sisko in that comparison because the Locutus cube killed his wife :(

4. She loved what she did. So much so that Voyager's misplacement became just another day at the chair, and continued her mission and pioneering in the delta quadrant.

5. She recognized violence as a necessary resort, and did not fail to use it...killed the Borg Queen and a few thousand drones, slammed Voyager into the time ship, created a mini-fleet in the Void and left the pirates in there, decimated a Species 8472 fleet with the Doctor's nano-probes, consistently beat the Kazon...

Janeway might seem strange choice coming from the 1701D, but...I'm sexier than the starship Voyager anyway ;)


Janeway rocks.

...So the ending of TNG series movie wise, is so far below the ending of the original movies.

Uhura - "Captain...I'm getting a transmission from Star Fleet Command....we are to return to the nearest starbase...and be decommissioned"
Ensign - "Course heading, sir?"
Kirk - "second star to the right....and straight on until morning"


B-4 - *stares blankly, confused, unintelligently glancing at everything*
Picard *explains to B-4 the details of Data*

What a horrible way to end another crew under the name Enterprise.

You forgot part of the Nemesis ending was actually B4 singing the song Data sang at the wedding... giving the viewer hope that Data can come back. It is left this way (I imagine) to give Paramount leave to bring back TNG crew...remember Data is a machine and as such can be copied onto say...a starship main computer.

I took that into consideration when I saw the movie, but I doubt the weight that it holds on indicating there's going to be another movie. Sometimes they end movies letting the viewer know things will turn out good, without making another movie. Also there's times where the movie ends and you suspect there will be another, and there isn't.

When The Undiscovered Country came out the ending hinted in some ways that the crew of the 1701-A was not finished. When Generations came out, many believed that it might be the last movie. The death of Kirk, the crashing of the Enterprise, the ideaology behind the movie itself.


But lets consider that this is true. That Data will be back. First, even with his return, the rest of the crew is scattered. Riker and Troi are now on another ship, Worf is on DS9. 1701-E's main crew is now comprised of Picard, Laforge, and Dr. Crusher.

Second........even if they can pull that off as well. It doesn't change the fact Nemesis had a pretty lame ending.




Personally, I would -love- to see a new movie come out. 1701-E is by far my favorite Enterprise, I don't think she got enough screen time. For a while I thought maybe there'd be a movie involving the DS9 crew, or even Voyager. So hopefully they do, we need another ST movie, and soon!

Two words: Captain Archer :cool:

Hey People vote here: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=60921

So now the game is team up?

Okay. Kirk and Picard would be my choice.

As far as commanding a starship, they have some similarities, basic, general ones. However, they are complete opposites. Picard is diplomatic, and resolves things by mutuality. Kirk is impulsive, and knows how to get things done. He knows good and evil and knows when and how to take a risk.

I'm sure some might nitpick just how well they would 'get along', but if we're asking ourselves who would win in a team up, we're assuming that they -will- get along. Kirk and Picard create a perfect balance, moreso than what Sisko represents on his own, I think they would own all. We actually have proof of their team work and chemistry, from Generations.

Sisko and Janeway? Gah. Sisko is a little too head strong, he's great when he's the only commanding officer, things are his way. But all throughout DS9 he didn't listen to much, maybe other than a few times, and to Dax. Janeway I don't know too much about, but i saw a few seasons of Voyager, I wasn't impressed with her.

I suppose if we're talking team ups though, that there are other options than what I've listed, but my vote is still on Kirk and Picard. Fused. Picirk. Yes. and the people rejoice.

One thing I forgot to mention, was Kirk and Picard both listened to lower ranking officers when they offered advice. That's key in their ability to command, knowing that even Captains are prone to error.

One thing I forgot to mention, was Kirk and Picard both listened to lower ranking officers when they offered advice. That's key in their ability to command, knowing that even Captains are prone to error.

Yeah I agree. the two really got it as commanders. captains' charisma...so to speak.

Janeway listens to lower ranking officers too...Chakotay and Tuvok in particular. So does Sisko...especially to "old man" Dax.

I don't think under normal circumstances Picirk would be a good idea...Kirk and Picard operated with mutually exclusive styles generally. The Generations pair up was to save a planetful of ppl from destruction by a nutty professor, bigger than starship command.

Skinwalker...I'm not even considering Captain Archer...he's from Quantum Leap! :eek:

I saw Picard in a movie about gay people with AIDS.
He was dating one of the AIDS sufferers, and had a lisp.

That should settle who the bigger man is.

http://www.hobonickels.org/JerryP/picard.jpg the man has gone down to history

Nobody thinks Captain Pike has a shot at the gold?

In the days before he became a hover-chair bound cripsy-critter or after...?

Janeway rocks.
i've only seen one episode of voyager, a 2 parter.
ever since then i have been looking for voyager dvd sets but so far nothing.

seeing that one episode left me wanting more.
i cannot say the same for enterprise or ds9.

I'm a Janeway man myself. Second Kirk, third Picard.

i've only seen one episode of voyager, a 2 parter.
ever since then i have been looking for voyager dvd sets but so far nothing.

seeing that one episode left me wanting more.
i cannot say the same for enterprise or ds9.

You're missing absolutely nothing at all, trust me....

If y'do go for the voyager - stick with the first couple of seasons only - from then on it becomes just nothing but improbably disaster scenario - bullshit techno-babble solution, no follow through. Seasons One, possibly Two however remain fresh and have some of the funkier idea's ever seen in a startrek series...

Just let me qualify this though with one sentence though - they managed to totally fuck up the Borg. Imagine that, if you can and avoid any episode featuring Neelix.

Personally, I though the first season of Enterprise was simply fantastic - how they managed to cock it up so badly I'll never to my dying day bother to fathom - but that first season they did was as close to anything even remotely startrek themed outside of the original series. Marvellous stuff, even actually felt like watching the original series in some places - the characters and set up were so spot on...

Season Two onwards, forget it, A Night In Sick Bay and a handful of other standalone episodes being the soul excuse to even think about continuing to watch it.

DS9 managed to finally shape up around the end of Season Three onwards, second to TNG its possibly the only next satisfactory - everything else y'can happily give a skip and not actually miss a solitary thing.

In the days before he became a hover-chair bound cripsy-critter or after...?

Before, of course. Although, he had a second life after going back to the cage and all, but I think he gave up the right to be called a captain by that time. Pet, more like.


As to Voyager, I liked it. It's true, I suppose, that the earlier episodes were the best.

Neelix was a bit of a putz. I liked his girlfriend though. I always thought it was a shame that she left the show. Seven of Nine was all boobs and nerd's wet dreams and everything, but she never quite did it for me.

She did come back, of course, or an alternate her did. That was a decent episode from the later seasons.

I also LOVED the idea that they had a serial killer languishing away in their brig the whole trip. I don't know the guy's name but he played Piter De Vries in the original Dune movie and always plays weirdos. Oh. He played Wormtongue in The Two Towers, too.


Enterprise was slow and boring. But, I only watched the first season and few episodes from later seasons. It just wasn't exciting at all. Maybe I just never got past the stereotype of Sam Beckett. Hoping that his next leap would be the leap home (he never did make it home, you know.)


The thing about TNG is that they rarely left the ship. Some dire circumstance would arise and they'd just... talk about it. Maybe jump into the holodeck for a little fun. Then talk some more. Talk talk talk talk talk.

Kirk ruled because he understood the need for the nameless security man to be beamed down to the planet for cannon fodder.


As to Picard. The man didn't even go down to the planet the few times they did send an 'away team' down.
He left that to his "number two'.
What a homo.

He did have a pretty cool catch phrase though.

"Make it so."

I also LOVED the idea that they had a serial killer languishing away in their brig the whole trip. I don't know the guy's name but he played Piter De Vries in the original Dune movie and always plays weirdos. Oh. He played Wormtongue in The Two Towers, too.

Brad Dourif - the psycho-chap in Voyager you were referencing. Indeed, nifty idea but a plot line ripped off directly from season 2 of Babylon 5 I think you'll find - coincidently, I hasten to add, a part played by.... Brad Dourif in a similar role but actually far cleverly done story wise.

Neelix was a bit of a putz. I liked his girlfriend though. I always thought it was a shame that she left the show. Seven of Nine was all boobs and nerd's wet dreams and everything, but she never quite did it for me.

Ah, who can argue with that - tiny, bendy, bird like. Indeed, though actually in life stunning woman though Jeri Ryan actually is, Seven-of-Nine didn't particularly do much for me either except make me want to pitch encyclopedia's at the screen everytime Neelix's face appeared on it twice as much as I did before she became a cast member....

When I don't take to a fellow I really, really don't take to them at all.

]Before, of course. Although, he had a second life after going back to the cage and all, but I think he gave up the right to be called a captain by that time. Pet, more like.

Oh, I dunno. I think afterwards, before becoming the Telosians pet as it were, as a crispy-critter he'dve made quite an engaging starfleet captain - good in a clinch, never shows fear or emotion of any kind - requisites for a leader of men I think you'll find - All issues of drooling aside, what you would have had would have been a man focused on his job, not gallivanting about after the fillies every time the ship ran into something with hips. None of that touchy-feely romantic crap - just good honest, no-nonsense captaining, unfortunate skin condition notwithstanding...

Enterprise was slow and boring. But, I only watched the first season and few episodes from later seasons. It just wasn't exciting at all. Maybe I just never got past the stereotype of Sam Beckett. Hoping that his next leap would be the leap home (he never did make it home, you know.)

I do. Was quite touching that....

Enterprise - indeed, first season was kind of slow in the action stakes, but it was rather nice seeing how they came up with inventing everything every other show from the OS onwards had pretty much taken for granted - working out how to communicate, what the M in M-Class planet actually stood for, never using the transporters becasue everyone was too scared to use them - lots of nice, little touches humanising the whole process of what later becomes known as Startrek which, y'have to admit, does consist largely of a bunch of right old smug bastards who never once so much even thought about ever having to go to the toilet - in Enterprise they did, caught the clap, fucked up royally and lurched their way across the cosmos feeling their way as they went.

They drank coffee out of mugs, got the shits, used grappling hooks instead of tractor beams and resented Vulcan's, let the ships dog piss on the tree's - it was the closest thing to a startrek show taking the piss out of startrek as you could hope to find that first season - unfortunately it had to go the way of all the others...

Dull. Predictable. Unimaginative. Formalistic. Bah, we say.....

The thing about TNG is that they rarely left the ship. Some dire circumstance would arise and they'd just... talk about it. Maybe jump into the holodeck for a little fun. Then talk some more. Talk talk talk talk talk.

This indeed does remain true - the ship-in-a-bottle episode - of this TNG excelled. It made Paramounts accounts department very happy. Hated all that Holodeck shtick... Cheap story, the narrative equivalent of "and then I woke up and it was all a dream....."

DS9 did that one far too often as well.

Yes I'd agree. The original series was more outside the ship, and then TNG was more inside. It says somethng about the shows though. Comparing perhaps an exploration of the outside, and then inside world. That's interesting.

I liked Voyager for all it could do, I don't want to discredit Janeway. She did screw the borg up severely, and species 8472. I didn't like the idea of the show itself. It was like Lost in Space, Star Trek style.

I'd still vote for Picard and Kirk though, they're opposites and could make it work to a wonderful balance.

But I just don't think Janeway compares to them. They command the Enterprise, the name alone was made legendary in Kirk's time, he set the standard for the type of captain the ship needed. So the fact Picard even got that command has to say something. And Picard had his own maneuver!

I might like Janeway more if I saw more of the show when it was on

I suppose the bottom line is that since every crew is different, we can't compare Captains. Each captain fit their crew accordingly.

Yeah and they did tend to stay on DS9 a lot in the show, but it was centered around the actual space station, that had a lot of frequent activity. So they could get away with it. Instead of running around the galaxy, they had a tendency of bringing it to them.

I read an article online earlier that mentioned a new movie, they've released a poster as well. No real plot or character ideas as of yet though. Or atleast that I could find other than speculation and rumor.

Hi,

I think the order of preference would be The Next Generation, Original, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise.

Why is that? Because TNG was fun an exciting, it had unusual scientific theories and was always coming up with something new! ORG was nice because of the fighting and worry over who might die next, I also liked that they were willing to have stupid scenerios like Spocks Brain, lmao DS9 is really a combination of the 2 I think, it contained elements of both, and in reality it was really, really good, but the problem is the guy that brought it to screen was so obsessed with making problems in the series he lost sight of what Star Trek was. He complained the first 2 series were all about exploration and to goody-goody, haha fucker! Voyager was alright, Seven wasn't exactly a hottie ya know people, jeez she wore a suit most of the damn show, how is that sexy? Did you even see her in that magazine posing in her underwear with all these other hot woman, now that was fine stupid dorks! So she didn't really add anything to the series in my opinion, but ehh the best thing in it was the holographic doctor! Enterprise, well... umm... I watched it, hated the entire thing, thought they were completely ridiculious in their approach. I mean listen it's just stupid to have all this advanced technology in it and have the thing running like clock-work, it was the first starship! Hell it would've been a much better series had they brought the plots more geared toward what goes wrong in spaceflight and how it effects the ship, then we'd have had some fun! I don't think I'll buy any of the series since they cost so much but I love them all, for the most part.

i've only seen one episode of voyager, a 2 parter.
ever since then i have been looking for voyager dvd sets but so far nothing.

seeing that one episode left me wanting more.
i cannot say the same for enterprise or ds9.

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Voyager-Complete-Seasons/dp/B00062IDDS/sr=8-1/qid=1166102133/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-4050802-1892846?ie=UTF8&s=dvd (Amazon: ST:Voy Complete Seasons)

Alternatively search amazon for the seasons separately. They're kinda pricey at the moment...:eek:

Mr. Anonymous is incorrect about his evaluation of Voyager...it's really good. Like I said before...Janeway faced Queenie Borg and blew her to bits. I should have really warned about a plausible spoiler...but I assumed everyone saw it.

Enterprise on the other hand has a Quantum Leap stigma that worked to it's disadvantage...why the hell would they cast "Sam Beckett" in a Trek role? Enterprise struck me as a series made solely to cash in on the Trek franchise. Why leave a gold mine unstripped right? Let's face it...the Big Four were Kirk, Picard, Janeway and Sisko.

Perhaps instead of pitting captains v captains, interesting questions would be...How'd they fare on each other's ships?
- Would Janeway have made a better flagship captain after her stint in the delta quadrant instead of becoming Admiral Janeway?
- Would Picard survive with a rickety old Constitution class Enterprise were he time-ported to Kirk's era?
- How would the Fed-Dominion war have gone if Kirk commanded DS9? Could you imagine Dukat's face after getting a tongue lashing from James Tiberius?

:D

Two words for the Dominion War:

Ripped. Tunic.

Eh? I'm not sure I follow.

Enterprise-D, your serial number should be 74656 =D

Nawwww...1701-D is by far the sexiest starship. Designers haven't magic'd up a sleeker model as yet, everything else looks blocky. A close second is a D'Deridex or D'Kazanak Warbird (TNG/DS9 Romulan warbirds, D'Kazanak is just a short-lived larger version).

Neelix....grrr...

I later saw him in a 'normal' shape. That's without his star trek outfit. He still looked annoying. He still irritated me.

NEELIX!!!..:GRRRRRRRRrrr


my apologies for this outburst.

LOL yeah...he was one of the clones in 'The Island'...he was just as annoying there.

But he's Voyager's distraction from 'normal' characters...like Wesley, Data, Odo, Quark, Garak and yes...even Spock. All the Treks had to have someone different...annoying/genius/emotionless whatever...something different from the average crewmember.

FLux:

Captain Kirk's green tunic when he is not wearing his outer uniform. He'd use it alone to squash the Cardies.

The thing about TNG is that they rarely left the ship. Some dire circumstance would arise and they'd just... talk about it. Maybe jump into the holodeck for a little fun. Then talk some more. Talk talk talk talk talk.

Kirk ruled because he understood the need for the nameless security man to be beamed down to the planet for cannon fodder.


As to Picard. The man didn't even go down to the planet the few times they did send an 'away team' down.
He left that to his "number two'.
What a homo.



The thing is that TOS was written as an Action-Adventure show. And with Kirk as the star, you had to get him into the action and adventure. This means beaming down to an unexplored planet and into peril, even when a real Captain wouldn't.

TNG on the other hand, evolved more as a Drama. This leads to a different type of story tellling. The show was less about what peril they got into than what types of decisions the characters had to make. Picard, as the captain, had the largest decisions to make and thus didn't have to beam down into peril in order to be involved with the story. This was actually more realistic.
(This doesn't mean Picard couldn't be placed in peril from time to time, just that it didn't have to be done week after week.)

Picard has one thign that always annoyed me: His utter and complete lack of conviction.

Every single episode he changes his mind like he changes his underpants. On radical issues. I have litterally seen episodes separated by no more than five chronologically, where he has affirmed before "We cannot break the prime directive!" and then "we must break the prime directive!"

It is truly pathetic.

.....like he changes his underpants....

How exactly would you know that...and...why exactly would you want to know that?

I love Kirk. But Shatner is an ass.Oh, Shatner is pretty cool by Hollywood standards. It's not easy on the ego living down being Captain Kirk for the rest of one's life, but he's done a pretty good job of it. Most of the stuff you are referring to was simply the usual Hollywood mix of hype, sarcasm, and mediocre writing. Shatner never took it all that seriously, he's just a professional performer who does the job he's paid to do and he gets into the role because that's part of the job and people expect it of him.

He has to ham it up and play a horny old toad with the onset of dementia on "Boston Legal" and it must require him to sit in a closet between shoots and double over with laughter. Did you see the episode when he and James Spader went fishing in Canada and ended up appearing in court to help out in an environmental case? Spader was telling him about the endangered fish that was the key issue: "They attach themselves to larger fish like parasites, for a free ride and leftover food. The local people call them 'cling-ons.' " Shatner put on this absolutely wonderful bemused expression, looked around in confusion and repeated, ".... cling-ons?..." When they write stuff like that for a guy it is really not easy to do it well, but it came off perfectly.

That said, I have no enmity toward Shatner but I really didn't like the original Star Trek whereas TNG is one of my three all-time favorite shows, with Babylon Five and Farscape. I'm a sci-fi reader and although the TNG dialog sometimes made me grimace, (using the phrase, "it looks like some sort of [insert name of ordinary 20th century object], Captain" ever again should be a capital offense) the very storytelling in the original series seemed like it deliberately contained everything we fans hate about sci-fi when rendered into visual media--all in every episode.

But also, Stewart is a more versatile and talented performer and a serious artist. He put on several one-man shows when we lived in L.A. and they were just stunning. It's really a challenge for a Brit to make a California audience laugh by telling anecdotes about his days with the Royal Shakespeare Company, but he did it.

Anyone see the old animated series? It has the voices of all the original cast members! It's actually very good.

Anyone see the old animated series? It has the voices of all the original cast members! It's actually very good.

I saw an episode where they ended up somewhere where everything was in reverse, white space and blacks stars. But it was voiced by the original cast? Heh.

Shatner. Hands down.

Picard, no question about it.

He's a true leader: unassuming, calm, cultured, but can also be a fearsome warrior/fighter if need be.

Also, he's damn sexy.

He might be calm and collected, but he also lacks conviction.

Every day he was letting his views change on all matters of things of importance.

What?

He never changed his mind on the one thing of importance: THERE... ARE... FOUR LIGHTS!

But he admitted he thought he saw 5 by the end.

It's between Kirk and Sisko imo. They had the same ideals, except Sisko didn't seduce some alien woman every episode. Otherwise Sisko was much more refined... and actually believable as an actor. I wish they'd make a movie with Sisko!

Shouldnt this be a poll?
I think James T was by far the best. OK they had shit special effects in those days but blar blar blar

But he admitted he thought he saw 5 by the end.Which makes his principled stand all the more impressive!

Do you have a picard with those pink jean lukes off? :))

Shouldnt this be a poll?
I think James T was by far the best. OK they had shit special effects in those days but blar blar blar

And acting... :p

lol Yeah well you cant have everything

Sandoz:

That was the best TNG episode by far.

But I raise you surviving torture with jury-rigging a gun out of natural materials to kill a murderous lizardman in a game of death organized by sadistic aliens.

Do you have a picard with those pink jean lukes off? :))Oh, the elegance!

Sandoz:

That was the best TNG episode by far.

But I raise you surviving torture with jury-rigging a gun out of natural materials to kill a murderous lizardman in a game of death organized by sadistic aliens.And I raise that with managing to communicate with a species who speak with a metaphorical language.

Oh, and defeating the fucking Borg!

Oh, the elegance!

Its just for comparison .