If God Gave his ONLY begotten son to die for our sins then does this mean we arent his children like the bible says?

Are we not begotten children?

The idea of having a favorite child kinda sounds a little un-God like.

Just a simple answer will be fine.
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Be•get- Pronunciation: (bi-get'), [key]
—v.t., be•got or (Archaic) be•gat; be•got•ten or be•got; be•get•ting.
1. (esp. of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring).
2. to cause; produce as an effect.

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We're adopted.

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
(Romans 8:15, KJV).

We're adopted. odd, and i thought god made us.

Genesis 1:26-27 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

a·dopt
tr.v. a·dopt·ed, a·dopt·ing, a·dopts

1. To take into one's family through legal means and raise as one's own child.
2.
1. To take and follow (a course of action, for example) by choice or assent: adopt a new technique.
2. To take up and make one's own: adopt a new idea.
3. To take on or assume: adopted an air of importance.
4. To vote to accept: adopt a resolution.
5. To choose as standard or required in a course: adopt a new line of English textbooks.

unless you using some other use of the word adopt... which wouldnt be completely out of the question since you like to change the meaning of words.

Do you know what it is to be someone's "begotten" son?
Do you know what it is to be made in God's image?

If I make a play doh male figure in my physical image, is it my son?

This is really not that hard.

Ben

Well?

--Tiassa :cool:

God made man out of dirt.

Ben

Would you care to show us which kind of dirt god made us from? How deep do we need to dig to find those dirt?

*Originally posted by hockeywings
odd, and i thought god made us.

Genesis 1:26-27 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."*

You're probably thinking of Adam.

*Originally posted by tiassa
What does Play Doh have to do with anything? *

Think of it as artificial clay.

Be?get- Pronunciation: (bi-get'), [key]
?v.t., be?got or (Archaic) be?gat; be?got?ten or be?got; be?get?ting.
1. (esp. of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring).
2. to cause; produce as an effect.
I suppose Kalvinb, with either of these they signify that he himself caused us, either as procreation (GOD having sex) or just as a general thing (with def. number 2), which would make since with the genesis quote i provided, but as tony says we are adopted. and adopted means a·dopt
tr.v. a·dopt·ed, a·dopt·ing, a·dopts

1. To take into one's family through legal means and raise as one's own child.
2.
1. To take and follow (a course of action, for example) by choice or assent: adopt a new technique.
2. To take up and make one's own: adopt a new idea.
3. To take on or assume: adopted an air of importance.
4. To vote to accept: adopt a resolution.
5. To choose as standard or required in a course: adopt a new line of English textbooks. Lets see, #1 would mean that we werent his in the beginning which would be contrary to him causing us. None of number 2 i think would apply, correct me if i am wrong of course. I dont see how your play doh example has anything to do with anything but to just add on to it. would you send your son to die for play dohs mistakes?

well, were do we come from then?

And tony, if adam was made or caused by god then Jesus wasnt his only begotten son.

Jesus is the only begotten son of God in the sense that he shares the characteristics of God (he is all-powerful, all-knowing, etc. etc.). Last time I checked I didn't have any of these abilities. We humans have to be given the rights of sons. We are born enemies of God, imperfect beings who hate God. This is the result of natural sin, which we are slaves to. However, when we become believers, all our sins are forgiven because of what Jesus has done. Therefore we are given the rights of sons (i.e. the rights of heirs). Jesus shares a special relationship with God because he was perfect in every way, without blemish or defect, a perfect sacrifice for our sins.

Here's one way to look at it:

Jesus - begotten - by God's* seed/part of God*.

Man - made - by God's* hand/in the image and likeness of God*.

*Originally posted by hockeywings
And tony, if adam was made or caused by god then Jesus wasnt his only begotten son. *

Begetting is different from making mud pies.

*Originally posted by makaera
Jesus is the only begotten son of God in the sense that he shares the characteristics of God*

No, Jesus is the only begotten son of God, because God begot him.

God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
(Acts 13:33, KJV).

lets see, to begot is to cause, taking the definition provided to us, as you say god made/caused adam, and even with that one person being begotten person makes jesus not the only begotten son of god.

Do you know where babies come from?

Ben

Originally posted by tony1
*[i]Originally posted by hockeywings

No, Jesus is the only begotten son of God, because God begot him.

God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
(Acts 13:33, KJV).



Now Did jesus came and said it to you??? or God Came and said that to you??. NO neither one. You read it in Book of Acts "according to" "Who ever" wrote it.:D

kalvinb

yes.
now is there a point to the question?

"now is there a point to the question?"

Yes. I'll give you a couple days to think about it.

Ben

*Originally posted by Markx
You read it in Book of Acts "according to" "Who ever" wrote it.*

You believe everything you believe because you heard it or read it.
So, what's the difference?
Other than that the Bible is true, and the stuff you've been learning isn't.

Originally posted by tony1
*Originally posted by Markx
You read it in Book of Acts "according to" "Who ever" wrote it.*

You believe everything you believe because you heard it or read it.
So, what's the difference?
Other than that the Bible is true, and the stuff you've been learning isn't.


Bible is not true. How many times do you like me to prove it. Your poor little mind can't understand simple fact. Oh joy............:o

Oh I am sorry Bible is a holy book , word of God and written by many Chosen people who contradicts themself and they were inspired writers and God speak through them and every thing in Bible is true but still there are 100s of errors and mistake since your version of God can make mistakes, And then there was a Baby God also so mistakes are possible right??:eek: .............oh boy and jesus died for our sins?.........now thats some funny stuff.:p

The word translated to "son" in John 3:16 is the same word that in an earlier gospel was used to call Adam the "son" of God. It was also used when telling of the "sons" of God comeing to earth in the OT. The big difference between Jesus and Adam is that Jesus always was...He was from the begining. His body was pure flesh and blood, mortal in every aspect. The Spirit...what made Him.. Him...was from the begining. There are those beings that are heavenly, also known as children of God who have never and will never live a mortal life, we call angels. There are many things we have yet to fully know and understand about such things. The fact that in Genesis God says "Let US"...tells me that He was not alone, coupled with the fact that Jesus Himself denied being God and prayed to God as a seperate being tells me that Jesus was NOT God Himself, but Jesus was in fact a heavenly entity, always haveing existed with God from the begining of time. Adam, and us on the other hand were not.

I understand it all now!

God made men from play doh or dirt. Then he had an affair with Mary and like Zeus and Hercules, the kid came along.
You believe everything you believe because you heard it or read it.
Only Tony is so gullible. Have you seen men being made from dirt? Did you ever meet with this Jesus? Then how do you know that these things happened? Oh, yes of course, because you read it in a book. Does it matter to you that this book was written by people with no first- hand knowledge of the events they talk about? Probably not, because you have a condition that strikes too many among us: stupidity.

Originally posted by Taken
The word translated to "son" in John 3:16 is the same word that in an earlier gospel was used to call Adam the "son" of God. It was also used when telling of the "sons" of God comeing to earth in the OT. The big difference between Jesus and Adam is that Jesus always was...He was from the begining. His body was pure flesh and blood, mortal in every aspect. The Spirit...what made Him.. Him...was from the begining. There are those beings that are heavenly, also known as children of God who have never and will never live a mortal life, we call angels. There are many things we have yet to fully know and understand about such things. The fact that in Genesis God says "Let US"...tells me that He was not alone, coupled with the fact that Jesus Himself denied being God and prayed to God as a seperate being tells me that Jesus was NOT God Himself, but Jesus was in fact a heavenly entity, always haveing existed with God from the begining of time. Adam, and us on the other hand were not.


Thats exactly what we are trying to tell tony1. But he does not believe in Bible :( . He reads it all but then his mind sucked into the same thinking regarding GOD is 3 not one. 1+1+1=3 not 1.

He believes in what the so called writers of bible says not what Jeus tried to tell him. So sad. Some day he will understand.:rolleyes:

Taken:
"The word translated to "son" in John 3:16 is the same word that in an earlier gospel was used to call Adam the "son" of God."

Once again you shift focus to the wrong word. "son" is not the issue. "only begotten" is.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

also notice that "Son" in reference to Christ is always captialized and that "only begotten" is a term used ONLY for Jesus.

Ben

Markx: "1+1+1=3"

Very good on your basic math skills but when it comes to God you don't add.

1=1=1=1 God

Ben

Originally posted by KalvinB
Markx: "1+1+1=3"

Very good on your basic math skills but when it comes to God you don't add.

1=1=1=1 God

Ben

Very good. Now please don't divide God. Let him be the only One.:rolleyes:

Now you understand.

Ben

Originally posted by KalvinB
Now you understand.

Ben

Yes I do but sadly you don't. You still think that there is trinity and there are three that is one.:(

Have you ever seen Disney's Aladdin?

Ben

When you are married to someone for decades with whom you have an intimate and loving relationship, you get to know them in their full glory... mind, body and spirit. Three aspects of one person, one entity. So it is the same, I believe, with the concept of trinity and God*.

Originally posted by blonde_cupid
When you are married to someone for decades with whom you have an intimate and loving relationship, you get to know them in their full glory... mind, body and spirit. Three aspects of one person, one entity. So it is the same, I believe, with the concept of trinity and God*.


Good try. But then you are talking about aspects, where on earth did SON of God came in the pictures??? then Holy Spirit. That is another mystery. Let me get back to you on so called trinity.:o :o :o . ....sleepy for right now.
Later.

Originally posted by KalvinB
Have you ever seen Disney's Aladdin?

Ben


Please go on.:D

This actually isn't that complicated Blonde_cupid. It's just a matter of putting a few of God's properties together. Namly omnipotence and omnipresence.

When Genie is going on about "never [having] a friend like me," how many Genies are there?

Ben

Markx,

***where on earth did SON of God came in the pictures???***

From the seed of God*... the appearance of God* - in part - communicating with and relating to us through the flesh.

***then Holy Spirit.***

The appearance of God* - in part - communicating with and relating to us through the spirit.

***When Genie is going on about "never [having] a friend like me," how many Genies are there?***

Hello KalvinB,

Sorry. I have no idea what you're alluding to above...???

Oops. This was probably meant for Markx. Never mind. I'm not familiar with the story.


***This actually isn't that complicated Blonde_cupid.***

What complicated?

The word begotten in that verse was just the usual word for begotten as used with any child. The point is that there must be some things either God felt we didn't need to know yet or were unable to understand, the Bible never tells us from where or how the heavenly sons of God or angels were formed. The hows and whys of Jesus' spirit haveing always been are not detailed, just the fact that He always was. But it is painfully obviouse from the words of His own mouth that He is not God. Perhaps He is an aspect of God, perhaps a son created in some way as the angels that we are not told about. But we do know from Him that He is not God. We know that on earth He was born of flesh in a normal 9 month, travailing with pain way...but His origins as a heavenly counterpart with God we know nothing about. (yet) :)

Luke 8:9-11

"Knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been granted to you; but to the rest, they are made known through parables so that they may look but not see, and hear but not understand. This is the meaning of the parable. The seed is the word of God."

Jesus was/is the seed of God*, the word of God* made flesh.

*Originally posted by Markx
Bible is not true. How many times do you like me to prove it.*

Once would be enough.

*Originally posted by Teg
Does it matter to you that this book was written by people with no first- hand knowledge of the events they talk about?*

You read books written by people who are GUARANTEED to have no first-hand knowledge of the events they write about.
1. Evolution
2. Big Bang
3. Any cosmology prior to 1800
4. Quantum physics
5. etc.

*Originally posted by Taken
His origins as a heavenly counterpart with God we know nothing about.*

When you say "we" you mean you.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(John 1:1, KJV).

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(John 1:3, KJV).

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
(Revelation 19:13, KJV).

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
(Genesis 1:3, KJV).

"The word begotten in that verse was just the usual word for begotten as used with any child."

"Begotten" is never used in reference to us as begotten children of God. The only child begotten of God is Jesus. We are begotten of our parents. Our natural father, unlike Christ, was a human father.

Ben

Kalvin, since you havent explained yourself on the whole childbearing issue, I will have to assume.... The best I come up with is that you mean beggotten ONLY in the procreation sort of way. But the other part of begotten is "to cause; produce as an effect" which no matter how you want to try and explain it, at least one other person was caused by your god... adam, and further according to others beliefs. So, if that is what you meant than that is my reply, else write out what the hell you mean, cause you make no since only making half a thought.

And for everyone else, I havent read anything yet that seems to have Adam or in some other beliefs any of us not begotten children of your god.

Originally posted by hockeywings
Kalvin, since you havent explained yourself on the whole childbearing issue, I will have to assume.... The best I come up with is that you mean beggotten ONLY in the procreation sort of way. But the other part of begotten is "to cause; produce as an effect" which no matter how you want to try and explain it, at least one other person was caused by your god... adam, and further according to others beliefs. So, if that is what you meant than that is my reply, else write out what the hell you mean, cause you make no since only making half a thought.

And for everyone else, I havent read anything yet that seems to have Adam or in some other beliefs any of us not begotten children of your god.




Hockeywings,
Dude no no no there wasn't Adam Alone. There was another one, The one we never heard about. :o Since it suppose to be hush hush.

If we are arguing that Adam was "created" from the dust of the ground, whereas Jesus was immaculately "begotten" in the womb of Mary, then let's see, even according to our own bible, there is yet another person greater than Jesus, Let's see who is this person


" For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 """" Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually """""(Hebrews 7:1,3). "


Ok so Adam had a beginning (in the garden), Jesus had a beginning (through mary); Adam had an end and, Christians calimed, so had Jesus "and he gave up the ghost". But where is Melchisedec? maybe hiding still??. Or beeing honest maybe I am not aware where to find the info about him.Why not someone help me out here/

And what is this "Hebrews"? It is authored by the St. Paul, the self appointed thirteenth apostle of Christ. Jesus had twelve apostles, but one of them (Judas) had the Devil in him. So the someone had to fill this position, because of the "twelve" thrones in heaven which had to be occupied by his disciples to judge the children of Israel (Luke 22:30). ""

Interesting read below, I came across while back.


Saul was a renegade Jew, and the later Christians changed his name to "Paul", probably because "Saul" sounds Jewish. This St. Paul made such a fine mess of the teachings of Jesus, that he earned for himself the second most coveted position of "The Most Influential Men of History" in the monumental work of Michael H. Hart: The 100 or The Top Hundred or the Greatest Hundred in History. Paul outclasses even Jesus because, according to Michael Hart, Paul was the real founder of present day Christianity. ( The honor of creating Christianity had to be shared between Paul and Jesus, and Paul won because he wrote more Books of the Bible than any other single author, whereas Jesus did not write a single word.) [ Top 100 by Michael Hart].


More on the Son of God Issue. Here are some verses regarding son of God.



"...Adam, which was the son of God."(Luke 3:38)

"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair... And when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them..." (Genesis 6: 2,4)

"...Israel is My son, even My firstborn:" (Exodus 4:22)

"...for I (God) am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn." (Jeremiah 31:9)

"...the Lord hath said unto me (David): 'Thou art My son: this day have I begotten thee." (Psalms 2:7)

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 18:14)



Back then if you noticed, every righteous person, who followed the Will and Plan of God, was a "Son of God". It was a metaphorical descriptive term commonly used among the Jews. The Christian agrees with this reasoning, but goes on to say: "but Jesus was not like that" Why not?. Adam was made by God. Every living thing was made by God, He is the Lord, Cherisher and Sustainer of all. Metaphorically speaking therefore God is the Father of all.

I am not sure what to say why we haven't heard about this "Melchisedec". And if we count him then we have three Figures who were born without any male interaction. I am sure some else here must of heard about him. :rolleyes:

*Originally posted by hockeywings
And for everyone else, I havent read anything yet that seems to have Adam or in some other beliefs any of us not begotten children of your god. *

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(Genesis 2:7, KJV).

That's where Adam was created, not begotten.

*Originally posted by Markx
Paul, the self appointed thirteenth apostle of Christ.*

Minor detail, but he'd have to be the 14th.
The 13th was Matthias.

*Melchisedec, king of Salem*

That would be a facsimile of Jesus prior to his being born in the flesh.

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like <871> unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
(Hebrews 7:3, KJV).

---871 aphomoioo
AV - make like 1; 1

1) to cause a model to pass off into an image or shape like it
2) to express itself in it, to copy
3) to produce a facsimile
4) to be made like, render similar---

You read books written by people who are GUARANTEED to have no first-hand knowledge of the events they write about.
1. Evolution
2. Big Bang
3. Any cosmology prior to 1800
4. Quantum physics
5. etc.

Evolution has many existing, observable consequences. The big bang is still being heard. Quantum physics is based upon observation of particles. All these are only an extrapolation of a concept discovered by science. All are linked in that evidence reflects the theory.

The bible on the other hand exists alone without any reference to other documents. Any claims within are subject to doubt because no other book makes the same claims without reference to that book. The question: Science has a phenomena of coincidental observation. Why is it that no two religions have the same story? This would mean that each exists independent of another. The minds ability to compensate for a lack of comprehension with nonsense, never ceases to amuse me.

Ok, hmmm created, or to create (as in god creating adam ***from dictionary.com

cre·ate
tr.v. cre·at·ed, cre·at·ing, cre·ates

1. To cause to exist; bring into being. See Synonyms at found1.
2. To give rise to; produce: That remark created a stir.
3. To invest with an office or title; appoint.
4. To produce through artistic or imaginative effort: create a poem; create a role.

Alright now AGAIN the definition of begotten, you can look in the very first post for it but i will give you the one from dictionary.com for ease of reference, they are basically the samebe·get be·got be·get·ting, be·gets

1. To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur; produce: Violence begets more violence.

Ok, now look at definition number 1 for create and 2 for begotten, tell me the difference.

Originally posted by tony1
*Originally posted by hockeywings
And for everyone else, I havent read anything yet that seems to have Adam or in some other beliefs any of us not begotten children of your god. *

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(Genesis 2:7, KJV).

That's where Adam was created, not begotten.

*Originally posted by Markx
Paul, the self appointed thirteenth apostle of Christ.*

Minor detail, but he'd have to be the 14th.
The 13th was Matthias.

*Melchisedec, king of Salem*

That would be a facsimile of Jesus prior to his being born in the flesh.

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like <871> unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
(Hebrews 7:3, KJV).

---871 aphomoioo
AV - make like 1; 1

1) to cause a model to pass off into an image or shape like it
2) to express itself in it, to copy
3) to produce a facsimile
4) to be made like, render similar---



And your point is??. I mean what are you trying to say?. Did he exists or not? Was he a real beeing or not? Was he born without any male interaction or not? Care to explain little bit more please?.

*Originally posted by Teg
Evolution has many existing, observable consequences.*

Only in a fallacious way.
While some consequences might conceivably have resulted from "evolution," if such consequences could have arisen for other reasons, then they aren't evidence for evolution.

*Quantum physics is based upon observation of particles.*

On the other hand, if you claim to understand quantum physics, then you don't.

"I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics."
- Richard P. Feynman

*The bible on the other hand exists alone without any reference to other documents.*

Of course.
Some book has to be the ultimate foundation for all other books.

*Any claims within are subject to doubt because no other book makes the same claims without reference to that book.*

Actually, the claims are not subject to doubt specifically for that reason.
It is the other books which are in doubt specifically because they constantly refer to each other.
After you follow the maze of references, you discover that all of the references are circular.

*The question: Science has a phenomena of coincidental observation.*

If one uses the same ruler over and over again to measure the same thing, then it would be amazing if the observations differed.

*Why is it that no two religions have the same story?*

The concept of the "lie" is often overlooked.
Your life is at stake.
In such high-stakes games, it is normal to encounter bluffing and other forms of subterfuge.

*This would mean that each exists independent of another.*

No more than a bluff in a poker game is independent of a bet by someone who actually has a good hand.

*The minds ability to compensate for a lack of comprehension with nonsense, never ceases to amuse me. *

God, too.

He that sits in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
(Psalms 2:4, KJV).

*Originally posted by hockeywings
Ok, now look at definition number 1 for create and 2 for begotten, tell me the difference.*

The difference is that definition number 1 also applies to "begotten."

*Originally posted by Markx
And your point is??. I mean what are you trying to say?. Did he exists or not? Was he a real beeing or not? Was he born without any male interaction or not? Care to explain little bit more please?*

A real being who appeared as a man, but wasn't a man.
OTOH, when Jesus appeared, he actually is a man.

*Originally posted by hockeywings
Ok, now look at definition number 1 for create and 2 for begotten, tell me the difference.*

The difference is that definition number 1 also applies to "begotten." ok, that means BOTH refer to begotten, and you are telling me that create is not the same as begotten, and i showed you that they are, so that means anything that god caused he also begot that object/thing/person so when you say he created adam that means your god begot him, making jesus not the only beggoten one.

create != begotten

create == to bring into existance
begotten = beget == to procreate as the father

create != procreate

This is really really not that hard.

Ben

kalvin i hate repeating myself

Here is a quote from my second to last post Ok, hmmm created, or to create (as in god creating adam
quote: ***from dictionary.com

cre·ate
tr.v. cre·at·ed, cre·at·ing, cre·ates

1. To cause to exist; bring into being. See Synonyms at found1.
2. To give rise to; produce: That remark created a stir.
3. To invest with an office or title; appoint.
4. To produce through artistic or imaginative effort: create a poem; create a role.

Alright now AGAIN the definition of begotten, you can look in the very first post for it but i will give you the one from dictionary.com for ease of reference, they are basically the same
quote:be·get be·got be·get·ting, be·gets

1. To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur; produce: Violence begets more violence.

Ok, now look at definition number 1 for create and 2 for begotten, tell me the difference.This really ISNT that hard

Do the world a favor and don't become and English teacher.

You're mixing apples and oranges.

Causing violence and causing people are two different things.

When you cause a person it's called "sire" as the dictionary.com points out.

Dictionary.com makes the distinction between causing an idea and causing a noun. Both are begetting but definition 1 cannot be mixed with definition 2.

Ben

Do the world a favor and dont work at a grocery store. Your bringing in bananas.

You and tony both have trouble when someone gives an example, it doesnt mean that that is the only thing that can be used with it. When the dictionary uses sire, it is giving you more help to understand how the word can be used. like definition one says "to father" then it says "; sire" because "sire" means "to father" Definition number 2 says "To cause to exist or occur; produce: Violence begets more violence." It tells you the definition, "To cause to exist or occur;" then it procedes to give you a word that you can use that is like it, "produce", and then it was nice enough to give you a sentence so you can understand how it is used, "violence begets more violence"

Just because it uses violence in the example doesnt mean that is the only thing it can be used for. Definition number two is just a broader meaning of definiton number 1.

"Definition number two is just a broader meaning of definiton number 1."

Do you know how a dictionary works?

Ben

Some book has to be the ultimate foundation for all other books.
Just because it has no references, you cannot conclude that it must be the foundation. It has some blatant areas of theft of ideas from prior greek and asian works. Ussually a book will attempt to build upon the concepts of past authors, in the bibles case it seems to undermine said concepts. Logic, by then, was an accepted idea of cohesive thought. The authors of the bible seem to have left that concept behind and opted for mysticism and other primative ideas.

Dont bother trying to convince KalvinB of anything...
In order to learn new things, one must have an open mind...
KalvinB says he has an open mind, and I agree with him,
.... his mind is so open his brain fell out!... he he:D

Hockeywing's,.. I agree totally with what you have stated in your last post but dont expect the religious to agree with your sentiments, I have had this same disagreement in the past with the religious regarding context based answers/definitions from both the bible and the dictionary.
Just take Joy in the fact, closed minded people like KalvinB will someday realise their infinite wisdom and biblical clarity was naught but inflated righteous bullshit.

No amount of common sense, nor intelligent conversation, with or without proof on any given anti-Religious topic will ever sink into the vast majoritory of religious peoples heads,..... maybe this isnt such a bad thing,..Faith in God and passing judgement upon the rest of us, is all some of these people have in their lives.
Imagine if they became bored with the religious game and had to oneday think for themselves,... realise they are no better than their fellow man and take responsiblity for their own actions like the rest of us.
"what a frightening possiblity" :bugeye:

Cheers
RazZ:cool:

You done Razz?

Ben

Hockeywing,
What they are doing is typica Christian missionary approach. Fail to explain every thing but still insist that NO NO he was Begotten because Pauls said so. Adam was created too .......oh I am sorry he wasn't begotten since "Paul" never mention he was begotten or son of God. :o :p

*Originally posted by Teg
Just because it has no references, you cannot conclude that it must be the foundation.*

You'd be right if I were "concluding" that.
I know it to be so.

*Logic, by then, was an accepted idea of cohesive thought. The authors of the bible seem to have left that concept behind and opted for mysticism and other primative ideas. *

I've seen your use of logic.
"Logic" and "cohesive" don't belong in the same sentence the way you do it.
Think of the Bible as metalogic, i.e. that which provides the framework for logic to operate in.

*Originally posted by razz
his mind is so open his brain fell out!*

No, no, that's the ATHEIST thing, to sit on a chair with your brain on the floor next to you.

*No amount of common sense, nor intelligent conversation, with or without proof on any given anti-Religious topic will ever sink into the vast majoritory of religious peoples heads*

Have you ever considered "proving" your point using the Bible?
You should realize by now that words are defined by the Bible, not by the dictionary.
The dictionary is just there for people who are afraid to use the Bible.

quote from markxWhat they are doing is typica Christian missionary approach. Fail to explain every thing but still insist that NO NO he was Begotten because Pauls said so. Adam was created too .......oh I am sorry he wasn't begotten since "Paul" never mention he was begotten or son of God. Yup I agree, alls they gotta realize is that something can fit more then one of the definitions of a word, because it doesnt match number one doesnt mean it cant match number 2


quote by razzDont bother trying to convince KalvinB of anything...
In order to learn new things, one must have an open mind...
KalvinB says he has an open mind, and I agree with him,
.... his mind is so open his brain fell out!... he he

Hockeywing's,.. I agree totally with what you have stated in your last post but dont expect the religious to agree with your sentiments, I have had this same disagreement in the past with the religious regarding context based answers/definitions from both the bible and the dictionary.
Just take Joy in the fact, closed minded people like KalvinB will someday realise their infinite wisdom and biblical clarity was naught but inflated righteous bullshit.

No amount of common sense, nor intelligent conversation, with or without proof on any given anti-Religious topic will ever sink into the vast majoritory of religious peoples heads,..... maybe this isnt such a bad thing,..Faith in God and passing judgement upon the rest of us, is all some of these people have in their lives.
Imagine if they became bored with the religious game and had to oneday think for themselves,... realise they are no better than their fellow man and take responsiblity for their own actions like the rest of us.
"what a frightening possiblity"
that is pretty scary. But thank you for agreeing with me. and i guess my question would be, why are they here? People come to discuss things because they want to learn, whats the point of coming somewhere to discuss something just to be closed minded. Well I guess it fits their pattern of logic so far.

quote from kalvin"Definition number two is just a broader meaning of definiton number 1."

Do you know how a dictionary works?

Benhmjmm, gonna say yes till you prove me wrong, but you havent done so well at that so far

You'd be right if I were "concluding" that.
I know it to be so.
I've seen your use of logic.
"Logic" and "cohesive" don't belong in the same sentence the way you do it.
Think of the Bible as metalogic, i.e. that which provides the framework for logic to operate in.
Your hypocracies are intensifying. I am observing a level of stress that accompanies the illogical savages. Your emotions betray any reasonable thought you might have. In light of your impaired perspective I can understand your position. It is thankful that I am not having this conversation face to face, as I would expect that your primal urges of violence are nearing control of your senses.

You done, Teg?

Ben

*Originally posted by Teg
I am observing a level of stress that accompanies the illogical savages.*

Well, just lie down, take a deep breath and pop a couple of dozen Valiums.
Your level of stress will go down, plus you'll get first-hand experience of why science is not to be trusted, specifically in the area of drugs.
If you survive, that is.

*I would expect that your primal urges of violence are nearing control of your senses. *

Yes, the urge to uncontrollable laughter is almost uncontrollable.

To watch Tony1 Dodge the issues, threads , and opinions that outweigh his lightweight if not empty ideals.:D

Witness the violence inherint in the system!