What if no one believed in God... or any religion?
Would our world be a better Place...

It depends on what filled it.

what would take it's place?

We all have theories, but there is no evidence that a godless world would be any better.

Many think it would be worse... but then such a world has never existed. We would need to see how it functioned for a few thousand years. Remember that our lives are but flickers before the movements of civilizations. What you might regard as illogical on the personal level might well be brillent on other levels... perhaps even the metaphysical level... whether you believe in it or not, it may exist... there is no way to prove that it does not.

What if no one believed in God...

d---what do you mean by 'God'? the patriarchal 'God' of abrahamic religious beliefs?.....if so. YES! because it's THAtgod which is the splitter of Nature and spirit

or any religion?.........d--again. what do you mean by 'religion'? white-light religion. Yes, Earth religion, NO.

Would our world be a better Place...
If we again rekindle our deep respect for the intelligence of Nature and our freedom to fully explore our Dapth which is also Nature's death, then thatcan only be fruitfull

If we explore our own DEPTH which is Nature's Depth, then we understand the Intelligence of Nature

If we explore our own DEPTH which is Nature's Depth, then we understand the Intelligence of Nature

Hi duendy... That means Elf in portuguese... did u know that?

I don't think nature is inteligent. If Darwin is right... nature is a big mess with some interesting results.

What exactly does that mean? Give me an example.

I mean... if we're going by nature's rules, that could be a whole lot nastier then what we have today. Could I kill you for my own benifit? After all humans are naturally oppurtunistic... and your resources that I take from your corpse will benfit me and my nature pursuit of procreation. Perhaps procreation by rape would also be in my interest too. All it would take to aquire the best breeding partner would be the time to stalk and capture that female. Oh yes, quite ugly... but is it unnatural?


I don't know what you mean by "nature's" wisdom. That seems no more materal or provable then God's. This is a problem that anti religion people have. Often in their arguements they keep god in one form or another. Humans like faith.

Linx,

What if no one believed in God... or any religion?
Would our world be a better Place...

Yes of course. Religions are based on ignorance and fantasy. It is difficult to see how such beliefs could ensure our long term survival and happiness. Once religious beliefs are suspended or rejected then people tend to seek real truth through scientific investigation. Science alone has improved our health and wisdom in degrees that religion can only dream about.

Hi duendy... That means Elf in portuguese... did u know that?

d__Hey Linx.....in a roundabout way. i knew that 'the Duende' are in Mesoamerican
blieved to be 'the duendes' meaning 'supernatrual dwarves seen when experiencing magic mushroom inspiration. also in Andalucean flamenco culture 'Duende' means 'spirts of the earth' and the feeling atmosphere in Flamenco when all the musicians, singers and dancers enegeies fuse with the Earth. but i didn't know about its Portugese interpreation. also evles are seen when bemushroomed. thi has been reported by experiencers such as Terrence McKenna, and i also have expericned 'seeing them'

I don't think nature is inteligent. If Darwin is right... nature is a big mess with some interesting results.

d__the operative term is 'IF' please chack out www.deepspirit.com there you can look at the writings of Christian de Quincey who is attempting to re-awaken ancient animaistic insight of the continuum af spirit and matter. he is a professor of philosophy and goes into this in more depth. howve i am not passing it on i will discuss about it with you if you wish

science as we are sused to it has its own myth, which is the assumption of Nature being a mechanism. we are now, for example, merely 'biochemical machines'....!

What exactly does that mean? Give me an example.

I mean... if we're going by nature's rules, that could be a whole lot nastier then what we have today. Could I kill you for my own benifit? After all humans are naturally oppurtunistic... and your resources that I take from your corpse will benfit me and my nature pursuit of procreation.

d__ all of that which you feel is Nature is what has been indoctrinated into you with mechansitic myth as taught in schools, the church, and all institutions. which in secual terms is that Nature is a machine and we are machines and natrually nsty, so we need controlling by a 'managemnt' that is more mature, and knows whats what. ..

Perhaps procreation by rape would also be in my interest too. All it would take to aquire the best breeding partner would be the time to stalk and capture that female. Oh yes, quite ugly... but is it unnatural?

d__like i said


I don't know what you mean by "nature's" wisdom. That seems no more materal or provable then God's. This is a problem that anti religion people have. Often in their arguements they keep god in one form or another. Humans like faith.

the only way to find out Nature's intelligence is to beging listening and observing it AWAy from all the mechansitc interpreations of it. THe best way to do this is via hallucinogenic experience in Nature

Religions have caused both wars and humanitarian efforts, have caused both personal depression and jubilee. It seems to me that the world would not be drastically different if religion were wiped off of it.

the only way to find out Nature's intelligence is to beging listening and observing it AWAy from all the mechansitc interpreations of it. THe best way to do this is via hallucinogenic experience in Nature
Are you kidding?... Are you seriously saying we should take a hike out into the woods and get high?

I mean... seriously?...


tell me you're kidding. :(

It depends on what filled it.

what would take it's place?

We all have theories, but there is no evidence that a godless world would be any better.

Many think it would be worseso who are this so called many, nobody I know, would you rather have a bunch of delusional religious fundie or a bunch of clear headed people ruling you, I know what ones I'd choose, but unfortunately we have the former not the latter at the moment. but then such a world has never existed. unfortunately, if it were'nt for religion, humans could have made much bigger stride in it's development, religion has a lot to answer for all the wars , all the scientific those advances destroyed.
we could have been a far more advanced society , if it were'nt for religion.

Nature is not intelligent. What we observe is the result of bilions of years of evolution. The perception of intelligence is merely the balance that has taken so long to achieve. It also wouldn't take much to disturb that balance, e.g. an asteroid hit, or a massive volcanic erruption, etc.

Whether you have religion or not doesn't make you more or less reasonable. There are plenty of godless psychos and plenty of religious people that wouldn't hurt a fly.

So if you think getting rid of god will change anything then you're kidding yourself.

As to development, it could be argued that the very kernel of civilization is religious in nature. After all, why do you contribute to society? Why do you follow the rules? Why did you ancestors thousands of years do so? Religion and things like it help to keep societies together. Without it, they tend to fall apart.

The USSR in part had such a faith... a faith in the state and the destiny of communism. When it became clear that their path was not predetermined and glorious, people lost faith in the state and the USSR collapsed.

The US has a similar configuration. The only difference is that we've never had a failure big enough to seriously question our predestination... nam got close... and the effects on our social moral were huge.


Anyway, if you think religion is the biggest problem and things will all come up roses if you get rid of it, there is nothing I can say to argue you out of it.

I think I'll just out number you :)

Are you kidding?... Are you seriously saying we should take a hike out into the woods and get high?

I mean... seriously?...


tell me you're kidding. :(

d__ no just that. also you do intellectual research. you learn say about Ecoliteracy, about the covert spin operations of goverments. how they operate. so all the time you are exploring. but intellectual exploration on its own isn't enough. we have deeper needs. goverments know this and prohibit this freedom and demonize it and ridicule it by various means

so you say fuk all that and do it. you DO it and the rest. so yes. i am serious

What if no one believed in God... or any religion?
Would our world be a better Place...

I am guessing that people would find some other fairy tale to substitute
in place of 'God' / religion. If dragons and unicorns were involved then
I can almost assuredly say the world would be a better place.

What if no one believed in God... or any religion?
Would our world be a better Place...
of course it would,

religion has always stood in the way of progress and improvement of human lifes by clinging to the superstitious delusions and silly beliefs invented by some nomadic tribe of goat herders
that anyone still takes such beliefs seriously today in this modern age,makes me sometimes feel like this angry atheist (http://www.thewaronfaith.com/wtf_say_thank_you.htm)

of course it would,

religion has always stood in the way of progress and improvement of human lifes by clinging to the superstitious delusions and silly beliefs invented by some nomadic tribe of goat herders
that anyone still takes such beliefs seriously today in this modern age,makes me sometimes feel like this angry atheist (http://www.thewaronfaith.com/wtf_say_thank_you.htm)

Well, the African god Bumba, isn´t a goat people god... or Brahma... Zheus...
It seams that many ppl of different cultures have their own creator...

About the angry Atheist. What an ass****... he´s being a proselitist moron.

d__ no just that. also you do intellectual research. you learn say about Ecoliteracy, about the covert spin operations of goverments. how they operate. so all the time you are exploring. but intellectual exploration on its own isn't enough. we have deeper needs. goverments know this and prohibit this freedom and demonize it and ridicule it by various means

so you say fuk all that and do it. you DO it and the rest. so yes. i am serious
I think this country and civilization allows a great deal of intellectual and political freedom. You can say and do just about anything. The only real limits are on things like drugs...


If you're saying that we can't see this "mind of nature" without going on an acid or mushroom trip, then I can't help but be highly skeptical...

I think, I'll just out number you religionist at the moment unfortuately do, but every tide will turn and common sense will prevail.

I think this country and civilization allows a great deal of intellectual and political freedom. You can say and do just about anything.

d__your 'freedom' is an illuuuusion! this is what i mean about learning about covert manipulations by the powers that be. you seem so naive, imagining they are out for HUMANS inerests. are they hell as like. what they WANt is to cling to their power, and to do this they must create peoples who NEEd that power and give it to them. so, for example the people they will produce and get money from are to be in a particular mindset. consumerist.....go read and study about Edward Bernays, the father of spin. THAt is what i mean!
all this we have 100 channels on our TV-freedom, is rubbish. it all has th same news, same ads, same old same old. any alternatives are crushed, and you are offered what you are made to IMAGINE is freedom. in comparison with other fasicist states it may seem relatively free, but it STILL isn't really free. not what i define as freedom anyhow. Are your young lads having to sign up to fught in awar over there btw, and made to feel like shit if they dont. i am just curious?

The only real limits are on things like drugs...

d__haha...'ONLY' already. only is a big word. a vast word. now, you admit there are no limits on the pharmaceutical drugs don't you. they are advertized on your TV, and radio, and in mags, etc etc, and pushed at you when you go to the doc and say you are not coping eetc etc. and kids have their drugs pushed on them if they cant manage schools......YET a woman and her partner are currently under prosecution and could face a large prison sentence. you know whay. for growing marijuana to HELP...HELP people with diseases that the ONLY known herb that helps them is marijuana. ....is THat freedom? that sounds to me more like fascism!

If you're saying that we can't see this "mind of nature" without going on an acid or mushroom trip, then I can't help but be highly skeptical...

Why are you sceptical. i would be interested what other ways you'd suggest. though i am not implying you always have to Trip in Nature to appreciate it.

Suspending just for the sake of argument my personal belief in God I will give my theory on what would happen to our civilization if suddenly God and all religions were proven false beyond any doubt. Fist of all society would break down. People would suddenly realize that anything goes. There is no right or wrong no good or evil. Hedonism would rule the day. People would lose faith in everything including the stock market, the monatary system, and Government would have to grow and become more powerfull. Our constitutional order would break down and marshal law would be the norm. Freedom would have to be curtailed just to keep order .There would be a lot of holdouts who will never accept the fact that what they have believed all their lives is wrong. Many would kill themselves and other people. Islamic nations would never accept it and would step up terrorism even worse than today. Many would say it is better to destroy the world rather than disbelieve. Charitable contributions would almost be non-existent. People would become extremely intolerant of others and suspicion would cause many wars all over the world. It would become the most dangerous time in the history of mankind to live. There would be a good chance the Human race would not make it and become extinct.

well. take one or two sentences out like 'all round hedonism' etc and that overview sounds like it is actually IS now...!

Suspending just for the sake of argument my personal belief in Godit's becuase you have that believe in god, you cant say that as it could not possibly be truthful.
therefore, your next statement is blinded by the same problem. I will give my theory on what would happen to our civilization if suddenly God and all religions were proven false beyond any doubt. First of all society would break down. People would suddenly realize that anything goes. There is no right or wrong no good or evil. Hedonism would rule the day. People would lose faith in everything including the stock market, the monatary system, and Government would have to grow and become more powerfull. Our constitutional order would break down and marshal law would be the norm. Freedom would have to be curtailed just to keep order .complete and utter rubbish, if you had made that statement through the eyes of a clear thinker, then it would hold more truth.There would be a lot of holdouts who will never accept the fact that what they have believed all their lives is wrong. Many would kill themselves and other people. Islamic nations would never accept it and would step up terrorism even worse than today. Many would say it is better to destroy the world rather than disbelieve. this is where your blind faith shows through. Charitable contributions would almost be non-existent. that is a very asinine statement, charity is not only done by the religious. People would become extremely intolerant of others and suspicion would cause many wars all over the world. It would become the most dangerous time in the history of mankind to live. There would be a good chance the Human race would not make it and become extinct.what! just like it is now then.

What if no one believed in God... or any religion?
Would our world be a better place...As Karmashock stated - because it has never happened we can never know.

I would like to think that the world would be the same. But only because it makes me happy to think that - I have no evidence one way or the other.

Also, the fact that there are one or two "good" atheists ;) in this world is some proof that people are capable of living life without religion, and still live a life that the religious would be proud of, with the exception of the belief in God.
So if you don't need to believe in God to live a "good" life - why should it make any difference to society if noone believes in God?
You don't need religion to come to the conclusion that you really shouldn't be killing your neighbour, for example - unless he steals your lawn-mower!! :mad:

...if suddenly God and all religions were proven false beyond any doubt.But that's the thing about religions - they CAN'T be proven false beyond any doubt.

Plus, my understanding of religions is that they use all the known facts and STILL come up with an explanation as to how they are still able to practice their beliefs.
They have, or will have, a counter to every single argument against them.

People would become extremely intolerant of others and suspicion would cause many wars all over the world. It would become the most dangerous time in the history of mankind to live. There would be a good chance the Human race would not make it and become extinct. It would appear in fact that the recent period during which nations have become at least a little more tolerant of others and a little less suspicious, coincides with the general loss of faith and growth of secularism.

People would lose faith in everything including the stock market, the monatary system, and Government would have to grow and become more powerfull. Our constitutional order would break down and marshal law would be the norm. Freedom would have to be curtailed just to keep order .In fact people would put more faith in the stock market and the monetary system than they currently enjoy! And your freedoms are being eroded right now in the name of Christianity. Your American freedoms were designed to include freedom from religion as well as of it.

religionist at the moment unfortuately do, but every tide will turn and common sense will prevail.
I'm counting on it :D

What's interesting to me is that you don't see how complex your opposition is... you think we're all stupid... which is just fantastic... it makes our work much much easier. :)

What if no one believed in God... or any religion?
Would our world be a better Place...
Couldn't be any worse. Actually, nothing would change. People do what they want anyway, religion or not. Often we use religion to justify what we want to do after the fact.

The good thing, and the problematic thing about religion is that it allows people to build upon knowledge of the past, without having to reinvent the wheel. It is problematic, because it means we are saddled with the baggage of past cultures.

religionist at the moment unfortuately do, but every tide will turn and common sense will prevail. I'm counting on it :D I'm so glad you are, it gives me hope.

What's interesting to me, is that you don't see how complex your opposition is... you think we're all stupid... which is just fantastic... it makes our work much much easier. :)
I have no opposition, religion has done extremely badly from the begining, so it's about time it changed. As we both have already agreed, it will happen, but I fear not in our life times.

I dont think your stupid, I just think you let irrational external forces control your lives, making you irrational in turn therefore dangerous.( there's an old saying it's "hold your friends close, but your enemys even closer".( thats not to say your my enemy, it's a trust thing) if it makes your life easier, it make ours wiser, (a fool is more trust worthy than a stranger, as you can alway trust a fool to be a fool.)

Mis-t-highs,
Good good, you just keep doing what you're doing and we'll keep doing what we're doing.

Love and peace, Karmashock.

Brutus1964: Suspending just for the sake of argument my personal belief in God I will give my theory on what would happen to our civilization if suddenly God and all religions were proven false beyond any doubt.
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M*W: And where is your faith in humanity -- remember, the one your god created? This sure sounds like wishful thinking to me.
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Brutus1964: Fist of all society would break down. People would suddenly realize that anything goes. There is no right or wrong no good or evil. Hedonism would rule the day.
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M*W: Seeing as how 75% of the world's population don't believe in your god, that would leave only 25% (the church going christians) to break down as a society. It would only be those christians who would turn to long-awaited hedonism.
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Brutus1964: People would lose faith in everything including the stock market, the monatary system, and Government would have to grow and become more powerfull.
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M*W: No, only 25% of the world's christian population would lose faith in everything including our monetary system (since churches would no longer be funded).
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Brutus1964: Our constitutional order would break down and marshal law would be the norm. Freedom would have to be curtailed just to keep order .There would be a lot of holdouts who will never accept the fact that what they have believed all their lives is wrong. Many would kill themselves and other people.
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M*W: Marshall law would only be needed to round up the christians and put them in prison camps for being a threat to those left in society who didn't kill themselves and their families.
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Brutus1964: Islamic nations would never accept it and would step up terrorism even worse than today.
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M*W: Muslims would have no problem accepting the destruction of christianity. They already know its false! In fact, it's the capitalist christians they've terrorized! Have you not been reading the headlines?
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Brutus1964: Many would say it is better to destroy the world rather than disbelieve.
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M*W: Obviously these are the people YOU hang around with. You must have a sado-masochistic personality with all this homocide and suicide you anticipate. You need help.
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Brutus1964: Charitable contributions would almost be non-existent.
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M*W: Yeah, and your po widdle churchipoo will go under. Too bad!
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Brutus1964: People would become extremely intolerant of others and suspicion would cause many wars all over the world.
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M*W: Hello! Excuse me! Where have you been the past 40 years?
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Brutus1964: It would become the most dangerous time in the history of mankind to live. There would be a good chance the Human race would not make it and become extinct.
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M*W: Thanks to the guys who brought us christianity, the world has had a very dangerous history since then. Seventy-five percent of the world's population will make it, even if the other 25% is doomed. The human race will not become extinct -- but you might.

You presume to know the mind of God? The supreme being? The entity that created the universe in a blink?

Regardless of what you think about the likelihood of that actually happening, you have to see that conceptually, you'd not be able to know dick about such an entity unless it wanted you to.

karma that thing you say you know, which resides in your head and is talking to you.
well duh, your talking to yourself.
it does'nt happen to everyone because some of us dont have halucinations, some of us dont believe in fairy tales.

You presume to know the mind of God? The supreme being? The entity that created the universe in a blink?

Paul says in the Bible that it's only possible to know the mind of God if you have the mind of God.

karma that thing you say you know, which resides in your head and is talking to you.
well duh, your talking to yourself.

You know, the self is the same as "God".

If you're scientific you can't discard it... if you're not then you can.

This makes you no different then the religious... at least before science.