Global warming a hoax?

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by hez7, Jan 5, 2005.

  1. hez7 Registered Member

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  3. DT Strain Registered Senior Member

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    I don't think people generally dispute that global temperatures are changing over time, or that this has effects on the environment. The dispute is whether or not (a) the changes are out of the ordinary when one looks at the overall temperature fluctuations on the planet over thousands or millions of years, and (b) to what degree the latest changes are caused by humans as opposed to simply being part of the natural cycle.

    I myself am uncertain about these things, either way. I have seen charts of temperature fluctuation over the long term on earth and they sway WAY up and down, with the differences quoted by you being the slightest little flutter in the overall curve. At the same time, it seems a good portion of scienists who know a lot more than me are really concerned.

    In any case though, it couldn't hurt for us to minimize pollution. And, even if it's not affecting global climate, it definitely is affecting the immediate atmosphere in the area surrounding our cities in which we live, so I'd be for lower pollution in either case.

    On a side note, people don't realize this much, but air and water pollution levels in just about every measurable category have been decreasing significantly since the 1800's, not rising. Our air and water today, overall, are much cleaner and healthier than they were in the 1970's, for example.
     
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  5. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    True of the West because of policy changes; true of Russia because of economic regression; not true of China and probably not India.
     
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  7. alty Brainy Burd! Registered Senior Member

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    Global warming is a natural phenomenon, ok so human intervention doesn't help it, but the earth has historically gone through warm and cold cycles and will continue to do so.

    We are at the moment in an inter-glacial period (i.e. between ice ages) and we haven't yet reached the half-way point before we start cooling down again before the next ice age. Ice cores show indeed that the earth has experienced many times in the past the 'day after tomorrow' effect. Also, the idea of the Arctic ice cap melting causing sea levels to rise is complete crap - its already floating in the water, so melting won't cause sea levels to rise. It’s only if ice on land melts in very large quantities that we have to worry. The recent trend in weather patterns does show that the world is warming up, but don't worry its just a natural thing slightly accelerated by human activity and don’t cows and sheep and stuff not contribute a lot to global warming?
     
  8. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    Sure they do - and their contribution to the problem is a direct result of human activity.

    :m: Peace.
     
  9. DT Strain Registered Senior Member

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    I wish I could find a source on this, but just based off memory, it seems to me that the chart I saw of ups and downs over millions of years was scaled as such...

    If you imagine a wave that is about 3 feet between it's highest and lowest points, all of human history and human effect was something like a tiny ripple about 2/3 of the way up on one of the waves, with fluctuations about an inch between highest and lowest. That's very crude and approximate, but that seems to be the imrpession I got from the presentation I saw. I will of course yield to doubts and more certain sources.
     
  10. Andre Registered Senior Member

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    The problem in this thread is association I guess:

    Global warming is identical to Carbon Dioxide is identical to pollution.
    Humans, especially the oil companies and the skeptics of global warming are causing a lot of pollutions, hence carbon dioxide, hence kill the oil companies

    Well, greenhouse gas forcing effect is more or less logarithmic proportional to the concrentration of greenhouse gas, meaning that an incredible amount of CO2 is needed to increase the effect with the equivalent of a few degrees.

    Carbon Dioxide is the basic building block of life and it should be considered a federal fallony to associate carbon dioxide with pollution.

    But please, carry on fighting global warming, an excellent harmless enemy to divert our dangerous human instincts to.
     
  11. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, no one in this thread has made those associations with the exception of you.
    Or to spell poorly... but we all have our opinions.

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    :m: Peace.
     
  12. DT Strain Registered Senior Member

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    Hmm, would it be a crime then, when you typed in another thread...

    "A think that these guys are having the same problem a you, unfortunately."

    That could be called a typo instead of a spelling error, but it shows that none of us are perfect. So, how about we dispense with pretentious grammar correcting and evasive posturing and answer people's points instead?

    Peace

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2005
  13. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    I guess it lost something between brain and keyboard.

    You missed the intent; my apologies. At issue was the ridiculousness
    of making it federal felony to associate carbon dioxide with pollution.

    :m: Peace.
     
  14. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    It was hyperbole. Does rhetoric no longer have a place here?
     
  15. Andre Registered Senior Member

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    Exactly, I like a little alliteration.

    That's why. And I must I apologize indeed I was in the rant mode too fast after reading:

    As put here, it seems to be of topic a bit.
     
  16. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

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    Damn... we're all so willing to be polite in here. I should move from WE&P.

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    Peace.
     
  17. Brutus1964 We are not alone! Registered Senior Member

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    Global warming has become a scientific dogma. Any scientist that questions it or produces evidence on the contrary are immediately labeled as heretics in the scientific community. Government and private grants are awarded or taken away solely based on a scientist’s pre-conceived view on the subject. Since we have been keeping track of average temperatures there has been no sizable change. There have been periods of cooling and periods of warming but the average has stayed remarkably consistent. There is no evidence that proves that human activity effects climate in any measurable way. A volcano will spew more "greenhouse" gasses than humans can in a century, and that still does not effect climate in the long term. Global warming has become a political tool by people who would like to see the United State's power and economy brought down. The Kyoto protocol was nothing more than a giant scheme to redistribute the wealth of the United States. This is why President Bush is against it, and why the Senate overwhelmingly rejected it during the Clinton years. Political opportunists and enemies of capitalism and freedom have bastardized Science.
     
  18. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    Brutus, if you want to be a global warming skeptic, that's fine. But parroting right wing talk radio nonsense will get you nowhere.

    Limbaugh, Hannity and the rest are fundamentally anti science. They dislike its uncertainty, and the concept of withholding judment in the absence of conclusive evidence. Dogmatic certainty is their specialty.

    The concept of a global scientific conspiracy to bring US capitalism to its knees is laughable. As Isaac Asimov said, "The purpose of crying doom is to avert it." Seeing trouble brewing on the horizon and doing nothing would hardly be responsible science. It may turn out to be all wrong, but saying that humans aren't capable of affecting climate is simply false.

    For a reasonable overview of global warming controversy, see Wikipedia .
     
  19. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    All I can say is that the last winters in Latvia have been much, much warmer than they used to be. At this time of the year we usually had -10C to -25C, today we had +8C. Whether it is global warming I don't know, but it sure is local warming to us who live here.
     
  20. cardiovascular_tech behind you with a knife Registered Senior Member

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    I guess some places have been warmer this year and have been getting warmer, like where I live we had the coolest summer in decades, but right now we are really above average with our high temps. I do think with the higher temps thats going to cause more precipatation for all of us which could really be problematic. I do disscount global warming but because of the way it is being presented to the public, I think if they would change there views and present it better saying it was a natural cycle then more people would by global warming, but they would need to show it better.
     
  21. Andre Registered Senior Member

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  22. Brutus1964 We are not alone! Registered Senior Member

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    Can anyone give me some actual proof of global warming besides anecdotal evidence? Whenever we have a hot summer everyone says it must be because of global warming. Global warming has been a hot topic since the 80's and none of the dire predictions that the alarmists have been spouting have come true. Global warming has never been proven outside of computer models. We do not know everything about how the Earth's climate works so we really cannot make any computer model that takes into account every single variable that would be required to make an accurate prediction.
     
  23. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    What about the melting glaciers (both Artic and Antartica) and tundra turning into a swamp in Alaska and Northen countries already spending millions of $$$ to use the warming to their ends?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=9005765

    It may be be not global, but it is getting quite warmer in quite a lot of places on this planet.
     

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