Has anyone here ever changed from a firm disbeliever in the afterlife to fully believing, due to a supernatural occurence in their life? If so, can u explain the occurence and why it was evidence enough for u to change you beliefs?

I never had any beleif changing. I always beleived in them. I actually had a experiance two days ago.

Thats all I wanted to share.

Sorry to be off topic;).



-Guyute


Why do you ask dear friend? Have you had a experiance?

No but I would like to hear some genuine stories of people who were so touched by the supernatural that they went from being sceptics to 'people of the faith'!

My dad went from being a lifelong atheist to a believer in an afterlife in the minute it took the hospital staff to resuscitate him after his heart stopped. He had a near death experience (http://www.near-death.com/) that he described as “more real than here.” After that he couldn’t wait to die and even signed a do-not-resuscitate order (he was terminally ill anyway).

As of then I was anti-religious and hadn't developed any beliefs. After he died he told me good-bye and turned off my TV, which he was addicted to in life. I only felt him. That was an eye-opener for me and I began to research spirituality. I started having out-of-body experiences and lucid dreams. The profound events in those combined with what I’ve learned from others have convinced me beyond reasonable doubt that our Earthly lives are only one aspect of our existence.

(I’m still anti-religious.)

Originally posted by zanket
After he died he told me good-bye and turned off my TV, which he was addicted to in life.

What do u mean by this? Did u hear a voice? Did the TV switch off by itself?

The TV turned off by itself at the moment I felt him say good-bye. I didn’t hear a voice. I just felt a wave of emotion. Granted the TV has a remote, which wasn't near me. That’s the only time a TV of mine has turned off by itself. It was about 20 minutes after he died, I figured out later.

I was still pretty skeptical at the time. But then the dreams started wherein I talked to my dad for hours. We weren’t close in life, nor did I feel I had a lot of unresolved issues with him. Yet every few nights for months I’d wake up & remember that I had had a long conversation with him. Typically I didn’t remember the subject matter.

I had two most-vivid dreams of him. The first contained the most love I’ve ever felt. All I saw was his head. He radiated health (he had been obese since I was born). The love was almost overpowering. He said “It’s so beautiful here and filled with love!” The second dream was him working at his workbench. He turned to me and said, “Take care of your mother.” That was the last dream of a 2-year or so span of frequent dreams of him.

It’s been 13 years and he still shows up occasionally. I think I’ve come a long way spiritually since then. Now when I see him we chat for a while and finally it occurs to me and I point and say “Hey, you’re dead!” and we both laugh. I’m getting quicker. One time I asked him, “If I wanted to visit you more often, how would I do that?” He said, “Remove the conditional IF.”

One time shortly before my dad died we were watching TV when a disembodied soul walked behind our chairs and opened a door to the bedroom hallway a few feet away. We both heard it and jumped up to see what was back there. Nothing was, and no escape possible except through deep basement window wells. It freaked my dad out since at the time he was a hard-core skeptic of all things supernatural.

John, you question I feel is very valid and also purpose driven.

I think my first reponse is to ask why we think that ghosts don't exist. Or that the supernatural or extronatural isn't a reality when so often there is talk of such things.

So maybe the question is why don't we have a constistant ability to witness the supernatural? Or, Why we all don't see ghosts all the time? Why isn't the experience able to be shared perceptionally? Why one person see's them but others can't?

I've had dreams of ghosts, but I don't think I've ever seen one. Lately, I've been having this feeling like there are ghosts around, but I don't know...I'm kind of scared of them, probably because I do not know much about them.

Originally posted by Quantum Quack
I think my first reponse is to ask why we think that ghosts don't exist. Or that the supernatural or extronatural isn't a reality when so often there is talk of such things.

Because there's no evidence that they do exist?

"Talk of such things" means nothing. If it did, then all of the following would be instantly validated: Bigfoot, Lock Ness Monster, fairies, elves, unicorns, demons, astrology, trolls, healing magnets, and countless other things. Surely you would agree that atleast some of these are not real.

Eric

fair point.

The stance I take is that there is an element of truth in everything of this nature. Exactly what that truth is is yet to be determined.

Even the absurd or absolutely ridiculous has an element of truth. And I guess that is what I look for.

Personally I am very aware of the afterlife entitiies but as yet not been able to fuly understand the full nature of it all.

So I wait with patience on this topic and get on with my life regardless.

Reasons for not believing in the supernatural is that there is no proof or evidence that any of it actually exists. Im not saying it's not possible that such things are real. All im saying is that at this point in time the raw idea of there be spirits wondering is ridiculous. Although there have been a hand full of testimonies of there being ghosts, there just aren't enough for there to be research or serious documentaries on this problem to go international. Think about it, of all the billions and billions of people who have died, why is it that there are so little testimonies of ghost sightings?

I would suggest that the reasons for a low number of reported sightings is that like you, people in the main require proof of what they have seen. I would go further and suggest that just about every one has had some supernatural experience but doubt it's validity due to the inability to prove what they experienced.

Halucination ( insane) or real ( sane)

Not many people are brave enough to declare their experience when every one else is going to question it's validity.

Exactly. While my last post may not have been that clear i assure you i am not hear to convince you that ghosts do or do not exist, especially since there is no evidence that either accusation is true. Even so i do not think that ghosts have anything to do with religion, since ideas of salvation and hell come into play. But what may make your statement true about religion playing into the idea of spirits and ghost is, what if hell is simply staying on earth as a meaningless spirit. This may explain the low amount of "ghosts" on this planet and the idea of achieving salvation is extremely overrated. Maybe our passage into heaven isn't as hard as we thought it is.

well iam 50% for what votorx said but the other 50% i think that when people say that they see ghosts i think it's an image that the mind project to make u belive that ghosts are real or fake but just like votorx said ghost can be real and then they can be fake to but there is no proof so thats the end of my statment.

if we assume for a moment that ghosts do exists I wounder if they reflect light or emit light or both.....? What is the nature of a ghost whether imagined or not?

errr...How I don't know. What if they just do neither? What if they don't reflect light at all? They're just a black mass blending into shadows? Who knows? I personally would think that a spirit can neither reflect nor absorb light, since they aren't an object but rather a spirit to begin with. If they are existing as a non existining thing, and isn't a object but can pass through masses...Maybe it has the same properties as light, even though it doesn't emit light. See what i saying?

P.S- Ghosts would not be able to emit light since it isn't a "thing" but rather a spirit, nor would it be able to absorb or reflect light.

i agree with votorx

I suppose it's a bit like asking : "What is the physical nature of a dream?"
When we see a dream what is the physical nature of what we see?

We see colours most of the time we see movement we some times hear sould and sense other things.

The colour we see, is it reflected light or emitted light or just plain colour with no need for light?

WE see an object of our imagination is it that we are seeing our imagination therefore we are seeing ourselves there for no need for light. because we are what we see.

Just because it may be a part of our imagination does not rule out it's physical nature just the lack of knowledge of the physical.

A ghost may ver well be a self inspired memory loop that some one is seeing as would see a dream. The entity may very well exist only as a memory projection into 3 dimensional space etc etc....

The question I often ask is : if it aint physical in some form then what is it? Taking the line that all experience is physical with no exceptions.
AS to how it comes to be is subject of knowledge more than it is a subject of questioning physicality or not, because I assume always that it is physical.

Therefore a ghost is physical, therefore it is real but in what way it is physical is open to research and debate.

So now your saying that ghosts are real. On what grounds though? Maybe you've striked something but what you said doesn't necesseraly mean that it is for real. Maybe, from what you said, the ghosts are simply figments of our imagination when we transition from wake to sleep. Usually when someone says they see a ghost it's when they are either sitting or laying down, watching tv, reading a book or falling asleep. Each way is a good method of going to sleep so maybe they are just overly tired.


But lets say ghosts are real. I still do not believe they can be psychical since they can supposedly pass through walls. Of course there is no proof of such a thing being true since i am taking such ideas out of movies, books etc. But lets say they can pass through walls, that there shows you that it can't be psychical, unless of course the ghost has some kind of trait similar to light. But light also has physical properties in which ghosts do not.

To truly find out the properties of a ghost you need to answer the following questions:

1. Does it emit, reflect or absorb light?
2. Does it pass through walls?
3. What color is this ghost?
4. Is it visible, and when is it usually witnessed?
5. The shape, size and "texture" of the ghost.
6. If the ghost can make sounds, if so what kind of sounds?
etc etc etc.

The question I often ask is : if it aint physical in some form then what is it?

Non-existent.

(Q), to prove that it is non existent we are going to say that it does exist and try out best to come up with proof that it does exist. Ultimetly questions will come up and we will see that ghosts cannot exist in any way or form.

so the imagination is non existent...I think is the statement of Q's

If the imagination is non existent then this PC i'm typing on is also a figment of some ones imagination and too also does not exist.

Silly thing to say yes?

When one sits still for a little while and with imagination visualises a tree on the top of a hill, does that tree exist?

If someone sits still and allows his imagination to conjure up a ghost that happens to a bit more vivid than the tree does the ghost exist?

When you visualise something what is the physical nature of that visualisation.

I would suggest that that visualisation is the creation of something at a quantum level, that our brain is capable of constructing. The tree exists at a quantum level. energy at a much smaller level than found so far by science.

Thus a ghost exists at a quantum level that the person has been able to witness using the same senses that allows him to dream or see his own visualisations.

Personally I quantify everything as physical to remove this notion that we can create something that doesn't exist which is a paradoxical statement...to wit...to create something that doesn't exist......

so the imagination is non existent...I think is the statement of Q's

The imagination is the result of the physical. What people tend to magine may not be of the physical.

there fore what you imagine isn't physical therefore what is it?
spiritual or something?

to say what we imagine does not exist is to say that we don't imagine.

We certainly do imagine so therefore it certainly exists, it is really the nature of this existance that is debatable not that it does or it doesn't exist. ( my argument )

The definition of Imagination:
A. The formation of a mental image of something that is neither perceived as real nor present to the senses.
B. The mental image so formed.
C. The ability or tendency to form such images.


Imagination is not psychical but rather an image formed mentally. Our eyes are only 2 organs which allows light to be reflected in through the pupils. This allows us to see are enviroment. Ultimetly our eyes is what our mind perceives. If our mental or subconcious mind decides to perceive something that isn't there, then what is stopping it? If ghost's are nothing more than our imagination then it isn't physical in any way but rather a mental image.

In other words, yes the imagination is non existence in reality, only existant in our minds.

Whilst I accept your position I would like to suggest that an awful lot of philosphers would certainly like to debate the issue of whether the universe is mind or whether it isn't.

If the universe is mind then by you definition what you imagine is part of that universe.

to say what we imagine does not exist is to say that we don't imagine.

I’m imagining a flying fire-breathing dragon burning down your house – does it exist?

In my mind, the image certainly does exist.

philosphers would certainly like to debate the issue of whether the universe is mind or whether it isn't.

Have them hit each other over the head with a baseball bat while they're debating - it may help them to come to a conclusion.

;)

If the universe is mind then by you definition what you imagine is part of that universe.

Yes but who says it part of reality?

In my mind, the image certainly does exist.

how does it exists?

How do you see it?

What energy is it?

how does it exists?

No

How do you see it?

Hallucinations, day dreams, while you're sleeping. You're mind conceives it to be there even if you eyes dont take it in.



What energy is it?

It is your mind's energy.

you see it with your mind. How do you do that?

Some people refer to it as using your minds eye.

you see it with your mind. How do you do that?

Sry, this whole time i've been saying nonsense let me change what i ment.

No one actually sees what they imagine. Instead they receive images differently than their eyes do. and it's usually at the corner of their eyes or when their vision is blurry. While what they see can be nothing more than a book shelf or a computer in the corner of their eye, they can perceive it as an animal, person or even a ghost. Meanwhile they still do not see anything differently they only "think" they did.

As for imagination, you never see it. You think about it. You imagination are you're dreams and such. How you see your dreams I simply do not know. You're eyes don't see. They just moderate the amount of light being reflected into your skull. You're mind takes that reflected light and forms images out of it. It even changes the light received since it also needs to change the image right side up since the eyes take it in upside down. While this process is happening I suppose there can be some sort of error cause this "data" to be distributed wrong allow your thoughts to be mentally projected into this image. Who knows? I don't.

how does it exists?

Neurotransmitters in the brain.

How do you see it?

See above.

What energy is it?

Electromagnetic.