I have just hear that JW has taken the first step towards setting up diplomatic relations with Iran.

What a dynamic world we live in. Today you are part of the axis of evil, tomorrow you're not.

I suspect that Bush wants to

a) Leave office and be remembered as a great man

b) Steal Obama's thunder because Obama has suggested talking to the Iranians rather than dropping bombs on them.

Am I a cynic or do most politicians suck ?

GW, you mean? And where did you hear this from? Any concessions from Iran or is this just out of the blue?

And no, most politicians absolutely do suck. That's a matter of fact, not opinion.

Remember when Saddam Hussien was Americas "friend" as was equiped with arms and given money??

Remember when Saddam Hussien was Americas "friend" as was equiped with arms and given money??

Saddam was America's friend, then America's enemy, then America's friend again then America's enemy, then dead.

Manuel Noriega and Slobodan Milosevic were America's friends and then America's enemies.

Savimbi started as an enemy of the USA, was the USA's ally for decades and in the end the USA was ambivalent about Savimbi.

All these world governments are just loose networks of genteel organized crime's ambassador's to the people that genteel organized crime governs. The people are idiots. The elections in Iran, in the USA and everywhere else are just elections where voters chose between various human robots who semi-consciously serve the genteel organized crime bosses rather serve the people who voted them into office.

The USA and Iran both sponsor terror. The problems between the USA and Iran are stupid.

The way you use the word "genteel" isn't. Aristocracies can only dominate in conditions of chronic general political apathy, part of which is cynical resignation about the power of elites. History shows us that elites have life-cycles; rise and fall- and there is little or no convincing evidence of an über-elite such as expressed in "Illuminati" conspiracy-theories.

Remember when Saddam Hussien was Americas "friend" as was equiped with arms and given money??

Yes, so what?

Saddam was America's friend, then America's enemy, then America's friend again then America's enemy, then dead.

So what? No doubt, you have personal friends with somewhat similar status. Why is it any different when the conduct of nations is being discussed. Assess any international relationship in broad enough terms and similar quips can be made. It's real politik.

The USA and Iran both sponsor terror.

Really? Prove it. Or rather define terror, and then prove it.

The problems between the USA and Iran are stupid.

Not really. Or at least neither the US or Iran see them that way.

The US is steamed about what happened to its embassy, steamed about losing property and finance in 1979 revolution. It also has been fighting a covert war against Iran for more than two decades, a war in which Iran has conducted a systematic terror campaign against the US (see the Beirut bombings, kidnapping of CIA station chief Bill Buckley and Khobar Towers attack).

On the other side of the fence, Iran is still angry about the US supporting the Shah and sees the US as sullying Islam through its financial dealings in the ME and Asia. It also has designs on the region that run counter to US interests and therefore pit it against the US.

These are serious disagreements. They are not "stupid."

GW, you mean? And where did you hear this from? Any concessions from Iran or is this just out of the blue?

And no, most politicians absolutely do suck. That's a matter of fact, not opinion.

I heard it on the BBC Worls Service news. I'm not clear who made the first move but the Iranians were said to be pleased. Eacn country will have some sort of representation in the other's and, if things go accordingto plan, full diplomatic relations will follow at some stage.

There was no mention of concessions.

@ countezero
Yes, so what?

I was only replying to:

I have just hear that JW has taken the first step towards setting up diplomatic relations with Iran.

What a dynamic world we live in. Today you are part of the axis of evil, tomorrow you're not.

What Myles was saying.

I think the title of this thread is out of context. "getting into bed with ___" is not a fitting description to the USA/Iran topic being discussed.
As noted, there have been times in history where it would've been a good analogy and I'm certain that another poster is correct when he says the USA is covertly working to secure their interests in Iran which could include "getting into bed" with desired Iranian factions/officials.
This is clearly not the subject of the OP and we have a long way to go before we will see the two nations openly regard each other as "friends".

Other than show publicly what he has been doing for a while now (and prove on yet another field that Obama is an inexperienced, naive amateur who is Greater Than Thou by knowing what nobody else has thought of before since 1979!), which is to have contacts with Iran in secret - just like Israel has informal but friendly contacts with many Muslim and Arab countries, but not in public... other than that, it is, I assume, to have a place in Iran where US spies can hide and have diplomatic cover. Oh yeah, and to at least make an appearance that the US wants to solve the nuclear weapons issue by diplomacy. It's completely and utterly futile, but hey, people want it tried so let's try it.

Other than show publicly what he has been doing for a while now (and prove on yet another field that Obama is an inexperienced, naive amateur who is Greater Than Thou by knowing what nobody else has thought of before since 1979!), which is to have contacts with Iran in secret - just like Israel has informal but friendly contacts with many Muslim and Arab countries, but not in public... other than that, it is, I assume, to have a place in Iran where US spies can hide and have diplomatic cover. Oh yeah, and to at least make an appearance that the US wants to solve the nuclear weapons issue by diplomacy. It's completely and utterly futile, but hey, people want it tried so let's try it.

And Iranian delegates will have all the benefits of access to fatburgers and crap TV.

To find out more about what is involved Google usa iran diplomacy 2008

And Iranian delegates will have all the benefits of access to fatburgers and crap TV.

Iran has a network of its own spies in the US. There are plenty of Iranians in the US and especially the people living in Dearborn, Michigan.

Originally Posted by nirakar
The USA and Iran both sponsor terror.
”
Countzero Really? Prove it. Or rather define terror, and then prove it.

US funds terror groups to sow chaos in Iran

By William Lowther in Washington DC and Colin Freeman

Last Updated: 12:18AM GMT 25/02/2007

America is secretly funding militant ethnic separatist groups in Iran in an attempt to pile pressure on the Islamic regime to give up its nuclear programme.


In a move that reflects Washington's growing concern with the failure of diplomatic initiatives, CIA officials are understood to be helping opposition militias among the numerous ethnic minority groups clustered in Iran's border regions.

The operations are controversial because they involve dealing with movements that resort to terrorist methods in pursuit of their grievances against the Iranian regime.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1543798/US-funds-terror-groups-to-sow-chaos-in-Iran.html

Iran has a network of its own spies in the US. There are plenty of Iranians in the US and especially the people living in Dearborn, Michigan.

So if that is so well known , what are the secutity forces doing ?

So if that is so well known , what are the secutity forces doing ?

The typical counter intelligence operations. What else can they do? Anyway, Iran and the US put a mission in each other's capitals it will increase US' intelligence gathering and directing more so than Iran's, because US is a multi cultural open society with tons of immigrants from Iran and south Lebanon, and Iran isn't. It's got some minorities but they are not from the US or EU.

I have just hear that JW has taken the first step towards setting up diplomatic relations with Iran.

What a dynamic world we live in. Today you are part of the axis of evil, tomorrow you're not.

I suspect that Bush wants to

a) Leave office and be remembered as a great man

b) Steal Obama's thunder because Obama has suggested talking to the Iranians rather than dropping bombs on them.

Am I a cynic or do most politicians suck ?

I must admit, I am pleasantly surprised. In reality ,someone who bases his decisions on new intel (which, granted this was not), is often a wise, smart guy, whereas someone who doesn't is a stubborn idiot.

However, there is a trend of Leaders retiring and becoming more left wing than they were in office. Maybe GW started early.