View Full Version : German raider Kormoran and HMAS Sydney Found


Asguard
03-16-08, 06:11 PM
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Kormoran wreck found off WA

ABC News
Posted Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:14pm AEDT
Updated Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:05pm AEDT

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has announced the discovery of the wreckage of the German raider Kormoran off the Western Australian coast.

The Finding Sydney Foundation has been searching for the vessel in the hope of finding the location of HMAS Sydney, which was sunk following a battle off the WA coast in November 1941.

The Sydney's entire crew of 645 went down with the ship in the Indian Ocean and its location has been a mystery for 66 years.

The foundation began a 30-day search earlier this month using sonar equipment on the ship Geosounder, about 200 nautical miles off the coast of Shark Bay.

The chairman of the Finding Sydney Foundation Ted Graham says the crew picked up the first sign of the wreckage on Friday evening and confirmed it was the Kormoran later that night.

He says the discovery significantly increases the chances of the Sydney being found.

"I'm very pleased. It gets us halfway to solving where the Sydney is," he said.

"Without finding the Kormoran our job would've been much harder. It's a fantastic step forward."

The crew plans to return to the Geraldton Port this week before going back to further examine the Kormoran.

Mr Rudd says it is a promising outcome which could lead to the discovery of HMAS Sydney.

"Finding the Kormoran is one big step forward," he said.

"Of course that does not mean that the search has yet found the Sydney itself but it does play one significant step closer.

"All of us concerned about this great ship and those of us who are concerned about what happened to the 645 brave souls who went down with her, have all these years been wondering where she lay and what in the end actually happened."

Ean McDonald, who was a Lieutenant Commander onboard HMAS Sydney in 1939, says it is fantastic news, although he is surprised the Kormoran was much further north than his research indicated.

He says the next challenge is to find HMAS Sydney, so the whole story of what happened that day can be pieced together.

"There's always been doubt about the whole action, how was Sydney surprised and sunk by the German raider," he said.

"There are many, many questions that would be presumably resolved when they find the ship and one can only congratulate the Sydney search people."


Viewed 17/03/08 at 09:30 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/16/2190745.htm)


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Wreck of HMAS Sydney found

ABC News
Posted 2 hours 8 minutes ago
Updated 29 minutes ago

The group searching for HMAS Sydney has found the wreckage of the World War II Australian warship off the coast of Western Australia, the ABC has confirmed.

The breakthrough by the Finding Sydney Foundation comes less than 24 hours after it announced it had located the wreckage of the German raider Kormoran, which also sank after a battle with the Sydney in November 1941.

The Sydney's entire crew of 645 went down with the ship in the Indian Ocean and its location has been a mystery for 66 years.

The Australian ship was last seen badly damaged and steaming over the horizon after the exchange of gunfire with the Kormoran, which also sank after the battle.

Members of the crew on the research ship the Geosounder found the Kormoran using sonar technology and were confident of locating the Sydney.

The wreckage of the Kormoran was found about 100 nautical miles off Steep Point, more than two kilometres below the ocean's surface, and the Sydney was found just 10 nautical miles west.

Chief executive officer of the Finding Sydney Foundation Bob Trotter says although the experts have been working in very deep water, they can be sure of their findings.

"Very sure. David Mann's our project director on the water out there, has done this about 30 times before in very deep water and he's probably the world's best at finding manmade objects at the bottom of the sea in very deep water," he said.


Relatives react

Royce Laycock was son of an engine stoker who worked on the ship and was only four when his father died.

"It's good news to know that they've found the ship, because you really didn't realise or know what happened," he said.

"I've read all the books and stories and publications over the 66 years, and it's just good news."

The son of another sailor who died on the Sydney, Bob Honour, says it is an important discovery.

"It's been a 66-year wait. Why?" he said. "Because they were trying to hide something? I don't know, I have no idea, I don't really care now. I'm happy to think they have found it after so long."

Lee O'Neill's father also went down with the ship, and he says he hopes the finding will bring closure to the families.

"I've always wondered how a ship like that could lose all men," he said.

"I've read so many books on it and heard so many different stories and spoken to people. Things to me just don't add up. I realise it won't bring him back and I accept that, but I just want to know what happened."

Even before an official announcement, federal politicians are having their say about how the discovery site should be commemorated.

Coalition backbencher Bruce Scott says the wreck of the Sydney should be left as a permanent war grave.

"It should be left with all on board to rest in peace. And the same with the Kormoran," he said.

"It's a war grave and it should be left as other ships have around the world from the First and Second World Wars - on the sea bed.

"I think that's the way the sailors who went down with the Sydney would like to think it was that way as well, particularly the families."

Naval Association spokesman Les Dywer says it was a major discovery.

"[I am] absolutely excited that they've finally unravelled the resting place of one of the greatest naval mysteries ever," he said.



Viewed 17/03/08 at 09:30 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/17/2190983.htm)


This is great news, after years of seaching they finally found them both

heavyarms
03-17-08, 12:03 AM
By this thread I must say your canadian, sorry just screwing with ya. British right!? I know! Just a little joke. This is incredible. Lost for so long with so little to go on. So what do you think they where hiding? The thing you posted said they might be hiding something. Uh! But that's great news, we could use all the information we can about those battles they could provide the world with some unfill detials that's cool.

Asguard
03-17-08, 05:01 AM
It wasnt carrying anything as far as i know (and anything thats down there with it will stay there). It was the fact that it was lost so close to Australian shores, after such a successful tour. It was abushed just off the coast of WA and disapeared and although the sailors have been listed at the war momorial as dead no one knew where she was or if she really did sink although servivors of the Kormoran DID report her on fire as she sailed over the harizon. There has always been a HMAS sydney in the RAN and there always will be, she was the best ship in the fleet. This finally brings some closure for the families who never knew what happened to her

heavyarms
03-18-08, 11:30 PM
That it does! That it does! Closure is always best when something tragic happens. Look at the united states we finaly got closure on the pearl harbor thing only in the last 10 years. Many people thought that as soon as the U.S. vets got in the same memoreal as the japanese vets there was going to be a nother world war (but of old people and instead of guns, canes and walkers) but that didn't happen in fact all the vets that were at the memorial in japan got along very well and as meny said it was war not blood thirst. Like one US vet said "you did your job and I did mine". In fact I think it was the best thing for both side to have that closure. I still see things on t.v. about how the US vets go to japan and hang out with thier japanese counter parts. But still that is amazing that they found it. I think that they could have found it at least 5 years ago if they had a better clue on where it might have been. And not to sound like a dick but also a little harder. It's like when the titanic was found! A little bit of effort goes a long way. And it shows they fond a WW2 war ship.

The Marquis
03-26-08, 06:31 AM
The ongoing mystery about the Sydney was how an experienced medium cruiser was ever sunk by a disguised German merchant raider - a ship with minimal armament whose purpose was to engage and destroy freight vessels, not warships. In a stand up fight the Kormoran should not have stood a chance. The "mystery" of the Sydney's loss has had an ongoing fascination for Australians mainly due to that aspect alone.

The official line is that the Kormoran managed to keep her identity secret until she was close enough to disable the Sydney before the cruiser could bring her much heavier armament to bear. Hopefully, we'll now know what really happened.

Asguard
03-26-08, 06:34 AM
TM apart from that there is the fact that so many salors was lost so close to our own shore when they were surposed to be coming home.

The Marquis
03-26-08, 08:59 AM
Yes, well, that tends to happen when a war is being fought.

If that much effort was put into lost French soldiers during world war II by their government, they wouldn't have time for anything else.

Asguard
03-26-08, 03:29 PM
TM if the french want to find there solders thats great for them but the fact that its impossable for other nations shouldnt impact what WE do. There were a group of solders recently found in vietnarm if i rember correctly, again it was PEOPLE searching with DFAT DOD, and DVA providing surport and they found there relitives. That was great news as is this find, i dont know why your suggesting we shouldnt have spent the money

The Marquis
04-12-08, 07:39 PM
Well, there is a foot in the arse for the conspiracy theorists.

Basically, it appears so far that the Sydney was sunk exactly as the German survivors described the action. No Jap submarine, no machine-gunning of survivors... Just an experienced warship in a venus flytrap, and some expert German gunnery.

Mystery, begone.