German cannibal tells of fantasy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2569095.stm

Mr Meiwes appeared relaxed before the opening of his trial
A man accused of killing, dissecting and eating another man has gone on trial in central Germany.
The court heard how horror films had fuelled Arwan Meiwes's childhood fantasies of eating school friends.

The 41-year-old computer technician is charged with murder, even though the victim allegedly volunteered for his fate by replying to an internet advert.

The gruesome incident was all captured on camcorder and the footage is expected to form part of the evidence.


"I had the fantasy, and in the end I fulfilled it," he said. The fantasy first developed between the ages of eight and 12, he added.

Mr Meiwes spoke of how he felt ignored by his father, and longed for a good-looking younger brother - whom he would bind to himself forever by consuming.

Internet link

It is Germany's first cannibalism case, and the world's media have gathered in Kassel to watch the proceedings.

Television images showed Mr Meiwes - wearing a jacket and a tie - smiling and talking light-heartedly to his lawyer moments before the trial began.

It was the first time that the self-confessed cannibal had been seen in public since his arrest.

The grisly details of the case caused a sensation in the German media when Mr Meiwes was arrested in December, 2002. My friend enjoyed dying, death. I only waited horrified for the end after doing the deed. It took so terribly long

Armin Meiwes


Cannibalism: A modern taboo


In a recent newspaper interview he admitted that he had killed and then partly eaten his victim.

Mr Meiwes advertised on the internet for a well-built male prepared to be slaughtered and then consumed.

"Slim and blond, that would have been the type", he told the court.

The victim, 43-year-old Bernd-Jurgen Brandes, answered the advert in March 2001.

Mr Meiwes told investigators he took Mr Brandes back to his home in Rotenburg, where Mr Brandes agreed to have his penis cut off, which Mr Meiwes then flambéed and served up to eat together.

Prosecutors say Mr Meiwes then stabbed the victim repeatedly in the neck and dissected the corpse.

Shock value

Legally it is a tricky case, says the BBC's correspondent in Berlin, Ray Furlong.


The court will test if Mr Brandes gave his life willingly

Cannibalism is not a recognised offence under German law and the defence will argue that, since the victim volunteered, this was no murder.

If the court accepts the defence argument, Mr Meiwes can expect a jail term of up to five years.

But the prosecution will push for a life sentence on the basis that Mr Meiwes is simply too dangerous ever to be released.

Meanwhile, Germans will continue to be treated to a media frenzy that plays on the story's unrivalled shock value.

And among the "highlights" will be the two-hour video that Mr Meiwes took of the whole incident on his camcorder, our correspondent says.

"The public probably won't be excluded from this part of proceedings; we have a tradition of open trials," says legal expert Felix Hardenberg.

"But the panel of judges will show only the relevant parts: what the victim is saying and doing before and during the killing."

Mr Meiwes has said that after his trial he intends to pass the time in jail - if convicted - by writing his memoirs.


The court will hear 38 witnesses and 14 sessions are scheduled in the trial, which is scheduled to end in late January.

The case only came to light when an Austrian student spotted another advertisement placed by Mr Meiwes on the internet and alerted police.

WHAT is WRONG with this man?!

Who says there's anything wrong with him?

The fact that the "victim" volunteered makes this a very interesting case.
It seems to me that in order for this to really be murder the "victim" would have to be proven insane or otherwise unfit to make such a decision for himself.

hhmm.. I would think there would be a little more UPROOAR over a CANNIBAL man living in Germany who was preparing to strike again. You must all be asleep. You won't be very sleepy when this cannibal man or his cannibal friends come after you.

It seems to me that in order for this to really be murder the "victim" would have to be proven insane

He wanted to be cut apart and eaten = He was insane

But the man that was killed was a volunteer so you don't have to worry about him attacking someone. I wouldn't care much if he lived next door as long as he kept the screams down and I kept a gun by my bed.

He wasn't necessarily insane.

I can't say for sure, but I think it was the volunteer who was insane. Anybody stupid enough to volunteer their penis for flambee deserves to be stabbed in the neck 9-times and then eaten. A bit odd to most, but his taste for human flesh is actually very common.

A bit odd to most, but his taste for human flesh is actually very common.

it is?

yes it is...

extremely common

Mind giving us some more details, past the cannibal tribes in Papua new guinea etc?
I mean, how muchi n the west, the middle east, the americas etc?

i would love to comment but i have been sworn to secrecy (on pain of being cannibalized)

:(

Mind giving us some more details, past the cannibal tribes in Papua new guinea etc?

Only if it's quid pro quo.
Mind telling your....weight, height, body mass index, what sort of diet you eat?

weight, about 11 stones 3 pounds, height 6 foot 3.5 inches, BMI is heading towards underweight. Diet is moderate, not enough fresh greens and fruit, but hey, I'm scottish.
this does not in any way suggest that id like to be cannibalized. I will resist any such attempt with violence.


I do recall reading about Sawney Bean and his family, who terrorised part of SW scotland I think over 200 years ago. They were cannibals, preying on travellers.

I will resist any such attempt with violence.

initially most do. however they usually come around. i have no doubt you will too

btw, you sound kinda tasty. perhaps i can make a few suggestions with regards to the diet? i am sure you would not want to disappoint ja?

HHmm, I wonder what poison would make my flesh totally unpalatable, if not dangerous ot eat.

Originally posted by miss khan
German cannibal tells of fantasy

WHAT is WRONG with this man?!

Have to agree with the others - this guy was not insane. Unusual, that's for sure. Scary to me, that's for sure. Insane? As in delusional, not aware of the real world? Not even close.
Neither was his victim insane, he was well aware if what he was doing, apparently.

I was hoping someone would post a bit about what makes the cannibal tick, I know very little about it. Although from what I have read, the desire to consume human flesh runs deep in our psyche, presumably because it is tied in with territorialism and other latent behaviors that were important in the Cro-Magnon days.

Seems like the information age has gradually brought more acceptance of behaviors that in days past (say 50 years ago) were considered by the great majority to be depraved and evil - sadomasochism, for example; even bestiality.

But cannibalism will definitely be a bit harder to swallow, since it always (usually?) involves a death, either voluntary or involuntary.

guthrie:
HHmm, I wonder what poison would make my flesh totally unpalatable, if not dangerous ot eat.

Some rosemary sprigs. Rub them all over your skin, it'll help.

Watcher:
I was hoping someone would post a bit about what makes the cannibal tick, I know very little about it. Although from what I have read, the desire to consume human flesh runs deep in our psyche, presumably because it is tied in with territorialism and other latent behaviors that were important in the Cro-Magnon days.

Basically. Ritual cannibalism is a way of incorperating the power of one's respected tribesman or opponent.
Look at how the Catholics take communion. You become closer to God by devouring and digesting him.
If there is a soul, it lies in the flesh. Consume the flesh and you consume the power of the soul.

Or who knows, maybe we just taste awfully good. Those soccer players who crashed in the Andes said that we taste like steak tartare.

-
http://www.mayhem.net/Crime/cannibals1.html

Originally posted by miss khan
You won't be very sleepy when this cannibal man or his cannibal friends come after you.

If he comes after me I would politely say, "No thank you. I do not wish to be eaten." He seems like a reasonably intelligent sane man. Plus he advertised for participants (not "victims"). I would consider it likely he would respect my desire to not be eaten.

Then I would ask him if I could have a copy of the video.
I know a lot of people would not want to see that (and I am sure a lot of those actually would want to see it, but wouldn't want to admit it) but I would love to watch it.

I wonder if he cooked all his parts or ate some raw.
I would also love to know how he prepared it.
A nice Bolognese over the intestines, maybe?
I think I would simmer the brain in garlic and olive oil (but that's just me).

Dead serious, would you want to watch the video?
Would you want to watch it in person?
Two yeses for me.

By the way...
Originally posted by Watcher
But cannibalism will definitely be a bit harder to swallow

Pun intended?

Originally posted by Dearprudence
I want to engulf man whole

And he wants to engulf man disected.
What's the difference? ;)

Ahh there you are Dearprudence. Well perhaps they are ugly but they were ugly together. It was a mutually beneficial interaction. One desired to be murdered in some bizarre fashion and the other was willing to perform the deed. Get this, the cannibal evidently had several victims to choose from. Can you imagine? There are dozens of people out there who were willing to take part in this guys snuff film! Anyway I think they should let him go and continue if he likes with his death advertisements. Its a geat way to thin out the population, you know getting rid of those willing.

poor man he must have had a very truamatising childhood

Face it folks- we are on the crest of a new wave. In the last few years we have seen the sensationalism of man's darkest deviances come to light thanks to high-speed communication. In time we will become as numb to things like this (cannibal case) as we are to drive-by shootings and drug overdoses. No longer will Hollywood be able to compete, when the latest snuff video will be available via the internet and special effects will not thrill anymore. We (the viewing public) are more cannibalistic (in a more subtle and dangerous way) than Mr. Miewes... It is a good time to be alive!

Hmmm if he had a bigger appetite, he could end up resorting taking the unwilling to be eaten, which would be a different thing altogether. What is most disturbing about this case is not so much that Meiwes ate someone, but it's that he had a volunteer as his victim. In fact he seems to have had 4 other volunteers, and he interviewed each one until he found the right one, so to speak. The other disturbing aspect of this case is that 4 other people responded to the advert in the first place. Some find pleasure at the thought that they are dying to meet the needs of another, thereby both needs are satisfied. Good luck to them I guess. In reality, Meiwes has not harmed anyone who did not want to be harmed. He had a more than willing victim (I mean come on, they cut off the guys penis and pan fried it and both tried to eat it... can't get more willing than that) who stuck through with the plan the whole way. All of the actual events were filmed and I'm sure that if the eaten had withdrawn consent, Meiwes would not have gotten 8 years.

I guess the question should be asked of whether he should have gotten arrested at all? He didn't kill anyone without their consent. He hasn't harmed society as a whole in any way, just the very willing individual. Just a real damn weird situation. I guess he was charged and convicted because of the repulsion which ripped through society as a whole when the events were made public. But has he really done something wrong? He didn't stalk the streets looking for a victim, but advertised and hand picked the eaten as though he were picking over a leg of lamb in a butcher shop. He didn't just choose any individual but a person who was in total agreement with what he wanted to do. They had a contract so to speak as to how this would take place and he complied with the contract. In many ways, despite my revulsion that this could have occured, that someone could do this, I need to recognise that Meiwes may not have done anything that was really that wrong. He didn't murder anyone. The guy volunteered. At no time did he pull back from ending up in the pan. And he bled to death, so for quite a while Meiwes sat there and watched him bleed until he died. So I guess the question should be asked, should we in society punish him for this when he had a willing victim, who allowed this to happen? Is he really guilty of anything? He didn't steal a cow from a paddock, slaughter it and eat it, he advertised for this victim and got a volunteer. He and the victim had agreed on how this event would take place. They both needed each other to perform their own seperate duties. Hence why Meiwes only got 8 years I guess. It wasn't an act of murder, it was consentual. Tough situation by any means.

Now I'm sorry, but I could think of much better ways to go than to end up on someone else's dinner plate :confused:. But hey, that's just me.


:eek:

But the fact of the matter is, the main course volunteered. After Meiwes had interviewed 4 other applicants, he chose Bernd. Now Bernd had replied to the internet ad with full consciousness of what would occur. He met Meiwes with full knowledge and consciousness of what would occur. He had made out a will, leaving most of his possessions and assets to his partner, who only found the will after Bernd had gone missing. The partner had no idea that Bernd had wanted to be eaten in the literal sense. After he was hand picked (so to speak), he then sold all his possessions and travelled to Meiwes house, again with full knowledge of what would occur. He then sat there and watched as Meiwes cut off his penis and pan fried it and both tried to eat it. I mean if anyone was going to back out of a situation, I'd have thought that when that knife was hacking into his penis would be as good a time as any. But he did not. If he was that incapacitated, he would not have bee able to sit there and attempt to eat his own penis. He'd have passed out cold.

"The victim appeared to be fully aware of the situation," an investigator said. "Videotape material definitely shows both him and the suspect engaged in eating his own flesh prior to his death." Police officers who have been studying the evidence, including the video made by the suspect of the final moments of his victim's life, were said to be undergoing psychiatric counseling. An official statement on Friday said the video shows the victim willingly allowed himself to be castrated before both men engaged in eating his severed flesh. (http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1430_A_714339_1_A,00.html)

Ugh imagine having to watch that video tape. But anyway... Prudence, the tape showed that Bernd volunteered. He never once showed any inclination that he wanted it to stop. It was his choice to take the drugs and for Meiwes to then stab him to death.

Meiwes, appearing relaxed in a dark suit and tie, told the Kassel state court in detailed testimony Wednesday that his victim arrived on March 9, 2001, and soon undressed

"Now you can see my body. I hope you'll find me tasty," Meiwes quoted his visitor as saying. The victim later said he wanted to be stabbed to death after drinking a bottle of cold medicine to lose consciousness, Meiwes testified. (http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20031203_1058.html)

Meiwes said he stabbed his victim the next morning, believing he was already dead, and recorded his act on a videotape that is being used as evidence.


What is most disturbing is that Bernd volunteered. While all of society were horrified by this, it must always be remembered that Bernd had volunteered and then sat by as a lot of this was happening. The Chief Judge Volker Mütze said it best when he stated in his findings: (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/31/international/europe/31GERM.html?ex=1076130000&en=7165a4a61d80cc45&ei=5 062&partner=GOOGLE)

"Both were looking for the ultimate kick," said the chief judge, Volker Mütze, after reading the verdict. "This was an act between two extremely disturbed people who both wanted something from each other."

Prudence, your sense of propriety don't come into it. You were in no way in danger from Meiwes. Both he and his victim wanted to do this. He advertised and Bernd, being the 'hunk-o-meat' that he is replied and skipped along to the guy's house and basically said, 'carve me up'. That's all it comes down to. The victim volunteered and even ate his own flesh. Then asked to be stabbed to death, and the cook even had the decency to wait until his dinner was out cold before he started stabbing. Now as a human being I'm pretty much horrified that someone could do this. Actually I feel the bile rise up just thinking about it. But I also keep in mind that Meiwes did not prowl the streets looking for just any victim, he advertised and Bernd replied and was very happy to go along with the whole shabang. The judge was right, this was an act between only 2 people who both wanted something from each other. No one else really came into it. Not you and your manhood, not anyone's manhood (except for the main course of course.. lol), not anybody on this earth.

well... case closed, Bells. thanks.

Remeber this web site? Manbeef.com?

http://web.archive.org/web/20010405034510/www.manbeef.com/home.html

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa072301a.htm