Ok geist,

Janus58 there are some data needing explaining by someone with familiarity with SRT as these data are contradictory. See what you can do with this, ok?what does special realativity theory say about muons created at various levels of the atmosphere?I have seen nothing from SRT on this. How, or why does SRT ignore these kinds of experimental data?
I suppose it is, not by ignoring the data, rather the data is not sought out, is it Janus 58?

Why do you appear on this forum professing to offer anything other than what is expected from a robot?

What f'ing data is contradictory. Please show us what you mean:

http://people.roma2.infn.it/~aldo/A51prl_cap94_mu.pdf

Come on Geist - I am waiting for you to explain this one [deleted].

Ok geist,



What f'ing data is contradictory. Please show us what you mean:

http://people.roma2.infn.it/~aldo/A51prl_cap94_mu.pdf
Of the muons arriving at a detector on the surface of the earth some have been created at altitudes that differ (on the average)by 660 meters. Some cosmic particles reach deep into the atmosphere before colliding with air molecules. For those claiming the muons surviving by virtue of time dilation have ignored the fact that some muons are created deep into the atmosphere. Therefore what is claimed as a time dilated survivng muons from high into the atrmosphere may easily be a muon created at much lower altitudes. To restrict the discussion and arguments around time dilation is a pure waste of scientific time. I trust you all understand this.

One of the links provided by SL in another thread had some data indicating muon concentrations at various altitude levels measured in d/m² which I have yet to transfer into "meters". However, the general meaning of the link is clear, at different altitudes different concentrations of muons exist such that using only time dilation to explain the concentrations at sea-level is totally bogus physics. To suggest that even one muon survives to the earth surface from say 6000 meters is pure conjecture that SRT cannot repair, absent the inclusion of the data in your arguments. The link SL included in his opening post in this thread has data on pages 2 and 3. I suggets you look at that data before continuing with your special relativity debate that will continue endlessly.

So, SL here is your f'ing data.

And Mr. Aer what have you done with this change of heart by openly engaging in a conversation with me? It appears that what wound I incurred to you wasn't as painful as it may have seen, that is as of yesterday afternoon. Whatever, answer or not. it makes no difference to me what you do.
The questionable f'ing data in the SL link (http://people.roma2.infn.it/~aldo/A51prl_cap94_mu.pdf)

Geistkiesel :cool:

Geist,

Therefore what is claimed as a time dilated survivng muons from high into the atrmosphere may easily be a muon created at much lower altitudes.

The result curves generated are for the known average production altitudes for muons of various momentums.

The average number reaching the ground is correlated with the known production altitudes and can only be explained by relativistic time dilation.

Your welcome.

P.S. My god you really do have a low opinion of the scientific community.

Geist,

The result curves generated are for the known average production altitudes for muons of various momentums.

The average number reaching the ground is correlated with the known production altitudes and can only be explained by relativistic time dilation.
Not so, your statement in the form it is in is pure fabrication. There is no data or experimental results, nothing, in any of your links that correlate muon production altitudes with those reaching the ground. And certainly not where this is explained by relativistic time dilation. There may be some ridiculous claims spread around, but no credible data or experimental results to support your propaganda. Why don't you look into it, you might learn something. Or better yet, think about it. You do know what "think" means don't you? I mean when you are sucking on your marijuana and coming to your "fantacized scientific conclusions", as you call them?

And while you are at it why not show us where the number reaching the ground can only be explained by relativistic time dilation?

P.S. My god you really do have a low opinion of the scientific community.

No, I have never said that. What I have said is on the record. I have indicated from time to time I have a low opinion of you, but then you aren't included in the scientific community are you? See [deleted], no where in this thread have I made such broad insults to groups or "communitties", but I see you are still operating at your old mode. If you can't win by debate then win by demeaning insult, isn't this your modus operandi? You who haven't spent a minute in the scientific community might be a bit surprised to find that this commuinity is just another community of human beings with all the attributes of any other group of human beings. You seem committed to defending the community at any costs.

Did you know that Isaac Newton is history's most prolific plagarist? Have you ever looked at your hero AL Einstein and his little professional faults? Omissions, (didn't reference Lorentz for years after 1905) Didn't know a thing about Michelson-Morely before 1905, did he? Al never stole an idea he didn't like.

Have you seen any instances of professional plagarism? I mean more than mere claiming a plagarized idea that came in a casual conversation? Did you know Newton made the statement that "It gave me great pleasure to have broken Leibniz's heart", after Newton fraudulently chaired a committee through a hearing to determine who discovered the calculus? I have seen some pretty stinking messes, and some pretty big fellows have been the perps. Have you ever seen any instances of data faking? It is much more prevalent than the occasional boob trying to make a name for himself, or herself (e.g. Shankland). I have witnessed many instances. Have you ever been witness to sheer fabricated bullshit? Sold to innocent trusting parties?

Have you ever toured Dachau, and held the bones of murdered experiments in your hand? Have you ever criticized anyone for screaming invective at his or her government for perceived criminal acts of that government? Have you ever heard of massive cover-ups of criminally used research assets?

Have you ever seen body parts spread over a wide area of someone acting out some politicians grand scheme of things that required the use of temporary intense military activity? You know shit SL and that is [deleted]... You probably even think of yourself as a patriot, or an engineer, or even a scientist, or, perish the thought, a useful and objective thinker, but nowhere do I see by conduct or word that you ever considered yourself a human being. You are probably too embarrassed to even talk about it, unless from your sarcastic, hating and spiteful personality. You want some science to study [deleted]? Do a simple google on '911 pentagon attack'[ and then report back your scientific findings of the, 1. amount and, 2. nature of the airplane parts observed in and around the pentagon attack point,3. the damage done to the building, 4. the nature of fires expected (per the amount of fuel assumed on board)5. the duration of the fires, and 6. security measures taken immediately and later, after the "attack" and 7. the flight path of the attacking plane. Then come back and talk about the importance of my misperceived "low opinion of the scienific community", and [deleted]. Where the fuck is this esteemed "scientific community" of yours anyway? Your [deleted].

[deleted]

Geistkiesel

Geist, you're rambling.

Keep it clean, or don't post at all.

personal commentary removed.

Geist,

What does this paper mean to you?

http://pandora.physics.lsa.umich.edu/schubnel/papers/PhysRevD_70_092005.pdf

Not so, your statement in the form it is in is pure fabrication. There is no data or experimental results, nothing, in any of your links that correlate muon production altitudes with those reaching the ground.

Sorry you are right. I am dumb, just like the rest of the scientific community.

All you need do is read the title. Do scientists know the distribution of muon production (over a wide range of energies) in the atmosphere? Knowing this, and detecting muons of various energies in ground based detectors, there is a discrepancy. More muons of a given energy reach the ground than should. The correlation factor is gamma (relativity). Muon flux in the upper atmosphere was known in the 1930's.

So, my simple observation:

[deleted]

And you might remember that as an engineer working in the biomedical sciences helping to save premature infants, I was and am indeed part of the scientific community.

[deleted]

And you think 911 was what? Faked? A conspiracy? I found 340,000 crackpot sites dedicated to that idea. Which one do you want me to look at?

[deleted]

Some of the above posts have been edited due to breaches of the forum rules. Attack the arguments, not the man.

Geist, you're rambling.

Keep it clean, or don't post at all.
I wasn't rambling I was responding to SL. Keep alert to what is happening here.If you don't likr what you see then don't read my posts.
Geistkiesel :cool:

I wasn't rambling I was responding to SL. Keep alert to what is happening here.If you don't likr what you see then don't read my posts.
Geistkiesel :cool:
I'd say calling a fellow forum poster (among other things) a Nazi because he suggests a tiny bit of modesty, not to mention the sheer length of the post covering from Newton being an asshole to Dachau(!) to conspiracies about 9/11(!), in a thread about relativistic muons (of all things) to be a pretty fucking good definition of "rambling".

But perhaps that's just me.

What does this paper mean to you?

http://pandora.physics.lsa.umich.ed...D_70_092005.pdf


Superluminal,
Among other things this paper means to me that muons are created in various altitudes, not at just 10,000 nmeters which this thread seems to focus exclusively. See table 1.

Geistkiesel :cool:

geistkiesel:

Yes, muons are created at different altitudes. The average number reaching the ground over a period of time depends on the average lifetimes of the muons and the average height they are created at.

Take it all into account, and we find that the average number observed differs from what we would predict using non-relativistic physics, but matches very nicely what we predict using relativity.

I'd say calling a fellow forum poster (among other things) a Nazi because he suggests a tiny bit of modesty, not to mention the sheer length of the post covering from Newton being an asshole to Dachau(!) to conspiracies about 9/11(!), in a thread about relativistic muons (of all things) to be a pretty fucking good definition of "rambling".

But perhaps that's just me.
Funkstar, So your thinking ability is limited, but why broadcast it? BTW, I noticed you didn't disagree with anything stated by myself. The world is much darker than your naive perspective sir.

Geistkiesel :cool: