Fundamental versus Moderate Christianity


I know this is a long list, and it is based on the one I listed for Islam, but changed to a Christian theme. These are what I would suspect a Fundamental Christian to believe.

I would appreciate if any Christians could read through the list and see if there is anything they do not agree with. Also, if everything seems to be in order then just say so.

Thanks!


1. Jesus was the Christ anyone who believes otherwise is wrong.
2. The Baha’i are sinning by suggesting Bahá'u'lláh was a prophet of God. There will be no other Prophets until Jesus returns.
3. The Bahá'í Faith is not correct.
4. Jesus was the only ‘person’ to never have made a mistake nor ever sinned.
5. Jesus life should be held up as the ideal life and his actions emulated.
6. Jesus never killed a person nor his inaction led to a persons death. (note: this refers to the human incarnation)
7. Sometimes it is correct to kill.
8. Eating pork is a sin.
9. A person who is martyred as a Xian will be rewarded by God in the afterlife.
10. There is only one God and to believe there is more than one is wrong.
11. The Torah is flawed in some manner.
12. The Qur’an is flawed in some manner.
13. Mohammed was just a man and Muslims are wrong to think he was the last Prophet.
14. The land of Israel is special to God and must be returned to Jews in order for Jesus to return.
15. The polytheistic Greek in the time of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle where not correct in their beliefs.
16. The Bible is perfect.
19. The polytheistic beliefs of Shinto Japanese are not correct.
20. The beliefs of Buddhism are in some manner not correct (there is no such thing as reincarnation).
21. Jews are a race of people.
22. It was correct behavior, under the appropriate conditions, for a male to have 4 female wives - now it is a sin.
23. Homosexual sex is a sin.
24. There is an afterlife.
25. Yahweh will judge a persons life and may grant them rewards in heaven.
26. Yahweh will punish some people in the afterlife in hell-fire for eternity.
27. Xian belief is better than all other religious beliefs.
28. A Christian should never change their religion to Hinduism.
29. A Christian should never change their religion to Islam.
30. A Christian should never change their religion to Buddhism.
31. A person is born a Jew and can not simply convert into becoming a Jew - they are a race.
32. The destruction of false idols to prevent idolatry is good.
33. The worship of idols is a sin.
34. The reason many Islamic countries are in the mess they are in is because they are not Christian nations.
35. It would be better if the World were completely Christian and every person was Christian.
36. Atheism is a sin.
37. It is sinful to build Hindu temples in Christian nations and then worship in them.
38. Children should be taught to be a Christian at a very early age.
39. An Christian based government is better than a Secular government.
40. The Christian crusades were good and were done to help the Christians under Muslim oppression in Holy Land.
41. The Christian conquest of Europe and the Americas was good.

Cheers,
Michael II

In my view, the difference between fundamentalism and "normal" religion is not the set of beliefs, but rather their attitude.

1. Jesus was the Christ anyone who believes otherwise is wrong.

I agree with this statement 100%.



2. The Baha’i are sinning by suggesting Bahá'u'lláh was a prophet of God.
There will be no other Prophets until Jesus returns.

Thats two different points. Yes Bahaullah was not prophet of God.

But the second part of your question i think comes from your lack of understanding as to what a prophet is. A prophet is a spokesman for God. It does not necessarily mean they foretell the future. So anyone who speaks for God is a Prophet. Therefore those who are lead by the Holy Spirit in their utterances are prophets, therefore there have been many prophets.



3. The Bahá'í Faith is not correct.

I agree with this statement. while it may have some truths in it, falling short of being the total truth makes it fall short of the truth that saves.



4. Jesus was the only ‘person’ to never have made a mistake nor ever sinned.

I agree with this statement.



5. Jesus life should be held up as the ideal life and his actions emulated.

I agree with this statement.



6. Jesus never killed a person nor his inaction led to a persons death. (note: this refers to the human incarnation)

Jesus never took part in the killing of another person on earth.



7. Sometimes it is correct to kill.

It is never correct for a Christian to kill another human being.



8. Eating pork is a sin.

I disagree with this statement.



9. A person who is martyred as a Xian will be rewarded by God in the afterlife.

All people who accept Jesus as Messiah will have eternity with God, The reward for martyred saints is that they get an early mark out of this world.



10. There is only one God and to believe there is more than one is wrong.

I agree with this statement.



11. The Torah is flawed in some manner.

I disagree with this statement. The Torah is the revealed Word of God.



12. The Qur’an is flawed in some manner.

In agree with this statement. The Quran is a great deception.



13. Mohammed was just a man and Muslims are wrong to think he was the last Prophet.

I agree with this statement.



14. The land of Israel is special to God and must be returned to Jews in order for Jesus to return.

two questions here.

1) The land of isreal is not specially important to God. God is the God of all the world Isreal is just a portion of the earths land surface.

2) The return of the jews to isreal is a part of the fulfilment of prophecies leading to the return of the Messiah Jesus. So it is not a case that Jesus was constrained from returning until the jews made it back to isreal but it was rather the plan of God to bring about the return of Jesus after the return of the jews to isreal.



15. The polytheistic Greek in the time of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle where not correct in their beliefs.

Well as with my reply about the Bahá'í Faith falling short of the complete truth makes whatever truth one has to no eternal effect.



16. The Bible is perfect.

The Bible is perfect for the revelation of the truth to those guided by the Holy Spirit in understanding it.



19. The polytheistic beliefs of Shinto Japanese are not correct.

Well as with my reply about the Bahá'í Faith falling short of the complete truth makes whatever truth one has to no eternal effect.



20. The beliefs of Buddhism are in some manner not correct (there is no such thing as reincarnation).

Well as with my reply about the Bahá'í Faith falling short of the complete truth makes whatever truth one has to no eternal effect.



21. Jews are a race of people.

They are descendants of Abraham through the tribes Judah and Levi and i think Benjamin? They have interbreed with many different races during the times they where dispersed amongst the nations. So race is not a defining characteristic there are black Jews russian Jews spanish Jews and even indian Jews. But they all have a link via ancestry to the tribes mentioned above.



22. It was correct behaviour, under the appropriate conditions, for a male to have 4 female wives - now it is a sin.

I agree with this statement.



23. Homosexual sex is a sin.

I agree with this statement.



24. There is an afterlife.

I agree with this statement.



25. Yahweh will judge a persons life and may grant them rewards in heaven.

The God of Abraham will judge all men. He will only grant a person eternity in heaven if they have accepted the Messiah Jesus as their redeemer. It is not altogether clear to me if the rewards in eternity with God will vary from one person to another but the bible suggests that some will receive a greater reward or position in eternity.



26. Yahweh will punish some people in the afterlife in hell-fire for eternity.

The God of Abraham will punish some people in the afterlife in hell-fire for eternity.



27. Xian belief is better than all other religious beliefs.

The Word is Christian not Xian. Christianity is better because it is the only One that obtains eternal life with God.



28. A Christian should never change their religion to Hinduism.
29. A Christian should never change their religion to Islam.
30. A Christian should never change their religion to Buddhism.

I agree with these statements.



31. A person is born a Jew and can not simply convert into becoming a Jew - they are a race.

I agree with this statement.



32. The destruction of false idols to prevent idolatry is good.

The destruction in the minds of people who worship Idols of their belief in idols is good. An idol is nothing.



33. The worship of idols is a sin.

I agree with this statement.



34. The reason many Islamic countries are in the mess they are in is because they are not Christian nations.

There is no such thing as a Christian nation. Never has been. The troubles in many countries where islam holds the minds of many people is caused by the confrontational and violent nature of islam and the lack of peace that comes from the knowledge of the Messiah Jesus.



35. It would be better if the World were completely Christian and every person was Christian.

Yes it would be better, But i know this will not be happening any time soon.



36. Atheism is a sin.

Rejecting the Messiah Jesus is sin. those who disbelieve the truth when shown it reveal the evil within.



37. It is sinful to build Hindu temples in Christian nations and then worship in them.

There is no such thing as a Christian nation. It is sinfull to worship anything other than the God of Abraham.



38. Children should be taught to be a Christian at a very early age.

Childeren should be introduced to the understanding of Jesus as soon as they are able to understand the concept. But in the end the person will reach an age of decision and make their own minds up.



39. An Christian based government is better than a Secular government.

There is no such thing as a Christian government on this planet. But Secular govenrments that mimick basic Christian fundamental truths will govern their nations with greater success and harmoney.



40. The Christian crusades were good and were done to help the Christians under Muslim oppression in Holy Land.

I disagree with this statement. The crusades where carried out by false Christians. No true Christian has ever engaged in carnal warfare. Nor will they ever do so untill the return of the Messiah Jesus.



41. The Christian conquest of Europe and the Americas was good.

There has never been a Christian conquest.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

There has never been a Christian conquest.

Forcing Africans and Amerindians to convert doesn't count as a conquest?

Forcing anything is not a Christian concept. And trying to force belief is vanity amplified.

True Christianity is about giving people the opportunity to embrace the Messiah Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

7. Sometimes it is correct to kill.

It is never correct for a Christian to kill another human being.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Unless ordered so by Yahweh as was evident many times in the bible.
God sanctioned murders and atrocities are acceptable as long as they ordered by Yahweh:eek:

Oh!! you know theist quote the bible, but they truly don't read the damn thing! they only quote that which serves their purpose, but leave all the detail out!!
out of context! LOL...

Oh!! you know theist quote the bible, but they truly don't read the damn thing! they only quote that which serves their purpose, but leave all the detail out!!
out of context! LOL...It’s still OK, I really just want the belief of moderate and/or fundamental Christians.

Many Christians think that the OT is of a by-gone era. The Jealous God is now replaced with Jesus who only can love... etc...

Or so I thought?

I just wish some more of the Christians here would respond. They seem to have all day long to bag out Muslims but can’t take a few minutes to relate the basic tenets of their personal Christian belief? :(


What does that suggest?

Michael

Unless ordered so by Yahweh as was evident many times in the bible.
God sanctioned murders and atrocities are acceptable as long as they ordered by Yahweh:eek:

Yes when God orders one to carry out an execution (not murder) then one must follow that order as they did in the times before Jesus. But Jesus gave us the will of God during the time of grace that started upon the death and resurrection of the Messiah Jesus. His revealed will for followers of the Messiah Jesus is to never kill. That stipulation will remain in force until further orders are issued by the returned Messiah. If in fact He will change the order at all. We know that upon His return the Messiah Jesus will destroy many enemies of God as part of the wrath of God that will come upon the earth.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Hey Michael, what does that suggest?

It’s still OK, I really just want the belief of moderate and/or fundamental Christians.

Many Christians think that the OT is of a by-gone era. The Jealous God is now replaced with Jesus who only can love... etc...

Or so I thought?

I just wish some more of the Christians here would respond. They seem to have all day long to bag out Muslims but can’t take a few minutes to relate the basic tenets of their personal Christian belief? :(


What does that suggest?

Michael

It is sad that the term Fundamental/ muslim /christian has come to be associated with a violent brand of the faith which the tag is attached.

The greatest mistake the western liberal media ever made was to refer to radical muslims as "fundamentalists" The term fundamentalists when translated into arabic comes across as meaning true to islam. So when western media attacked fundamentalist muslims the reports came across as an attack on true followers of islam to the arab hearing. If they had used the word radical islamists then it might have come over differently but the damage was done as i found out when i went and became a member of an islamic forum. People should take a lot more care when they use words, but it also seems to me that the western media intentionaly used that terminology to incite the islamic people and to promote sympathy and support within the islamic community for the radical islamic jihadists. Anyway enough of conspiracy theories.

terms such as moderate/conservative/liberal/ radical/fundamental.. are all just tags that people attach different meanings to. The real situation out there is far more varied then the tags would suggest. Most people do not fit into any category but move between them depending on the specific issue at hand. I know its easier to lump people into nice self defined boxes but the reality is that no one fits perfectly into any man made box.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Yes when God orders one to carry out an execution (not murder) then one must follow that order as they did in the times before Jesus.

Yea! riiiiiiiggggghhhhhtttt try pulling that shit now-a-days in a court of law! :rolleyes:

It’s still OK, I really just want the belief of moderate and/or fundamental Christians.

Many Christians think that the OT is of a by-gone era. The Jealous God is now replaced with Jesus who only can love... etc...

Or so I thought?

I just wish some more of the Christians here would respond. They seem to have all day long to bag out Muslims but can’t take a few minutes to relate the basic tenets of their personal Christian belief? :(

What does that suggest?

Michael

*************
M*W: I couldn't agree more. Christians can't jump right in and comment or keep up with discussions about their own religion, because they don't know anything other than what they've been brainwashed to believe! Like I've said, they don't read even about their own religion. It's pathetic.

Nothing about the original questions? You're just living up to what everyone thinks about you. Sam answered the questions about Islam, why can't you be as helpful?

Why don't you point out one of those questions which you would really like to see answered, and we'll take it from there.

7. Sometimes it is correct to kill.
8. Eating pork is a sin.
9. A person who is martyred as a Xian will be rewarded by God in the afterlife.
10. There is only one God and to believe there is more than one is wrong.
14. The land of Israel is special to God and must be returned to Jews in order for Jesus to return.
21. Jews are a race of people.
22. It was correct behavior, under the appropriate conditions, for a male to have 4 female wives - now it is a sin.
23. Homosexual sex is a sin.
24. There is an afterlife.
38. Children should be taught to be a Christian at a very early age.
39. An Christian based government is better than a Secular government.
40. The Christian crusades were good and were done to help the Christians under Muslim oppression in Holy Land.
41. The Christian conquest of Europe and the Americas(aswell as Austrailia and indonesia?) was good.
33. The worship of idols is a sin.(including crucifix, statues or paintings of Jesus or Mary, saints, the pope, anyone in the Bible other than Jesus, et cetera)

7. Yes
8. No
9. Of course
10. God is of Three Components
14. Yes
21. No
22. Yes
23. Yes
24. Duh
38. They must decide to become Christian on their own
39. Define "Christian based government"
40. No
41. Badly worded
33. Yes

39. Theocracy basd on the Bible
Can you elaborate on your answers? Give reasons why, and perhaps scriptural references?

39. Is the U.S. a secular government?

Yes, seperation of church and state, etc.

"Congress shall make no law establishing religion," well, since the Libs have effectively established the faith of Atheism through the courts, the U.S. is a atheistocracy, which is no better than any theocracy, so we'll leave that one blank.

Lol. Context. There's a difference between secular and 'atheistocracy' . You don't believe in religious freedom?

I just told you, you are the king of over sight.

So the answer's no?

If you can't infer where I stand, here's a hint, I do support the U.S. Constitution. If you can't figure it out from that, then I can't help you.

Hey Michael, what does that suggest?What does what suggest?

Two Christians have responded, only The Visitor has not.

So would this be a correct summary so far:

Agreed by all Christians thus far:

1. There is only one God.
2. Christianity is the best religion.
3. In an ‘Ideal’ world everyone would be Christian.
4. Only Christians will obtain eternal life with God

5. Christians are rewarded in the afterlife for Martyrdom ONLY in that they get to heaven QUICKER.
6. The only way to get to heaven is by accepting Jesus the Messiah.
7. God judge all people and some will go to heaven for eternity.
8. God will punish some people by Hell-Fire for eternity.
9. People are born Jew and can not convert into becoming a Jew. There are no “Chinese” Jews.

10. The Bible is infallible.
11. The Torah is infallible.
12. The Qur’an is a false testament made by Satan to lead people away from the true teachings of Jesus.

13. Homosexuality IS a sin.
14. Eating pork is OK
15. It was OK for a male to have 4 female wives now it IS a sin.
16. Teaching children Christianity should only begin at an appropriate age (not too young).
17. The crusades where carried out by false Christians (There has never been a “Christian” conquest).
18. To force someone to be a Christian IS a sin.

19. Atheism is sinful and Atheists will live in Hell-Fire for eternity after they die.
20. The Bahá'í faith is incorrect, Bahá'u'lláh was NOT a Prophet.
21. The Isamic faith is incorrect; Mohammed was NOT a Prophet.
22. Hindus religious belief is in some manner incorrect.
23. Buddhist religious belief is in some manner incorrect.
24. Reincarnation is NOT true and does not happen.

25. Of all the Abrahamic Prophets Jesus was the ONLY one who was sinless.
26. Jesus never advocated killing anyone under any circumstances at all. Never.
27. Jesus' life should be held up to be emulated.
28. To kill a human is a SIN.

29. To worship an Idol is a sin.
30. It is OK to destroy other people’s false idols.
31. Secular Law based on Christian tradition is the best.

32. The land of Israel is not especially important to God except to say that the return of the Jews to Israel is a part of the fulfillment of prophecies leading to the return of the Messiah Jesus.


Does this seem right so far?



Michael



Follow-up Questions:

34. Is it true that if ‘true’ Christianity is followed the society will be a perfect one?
35. Are Catholics true Christians?
36. Are Protestants true Christians?
37. Are Jehovah’s witness’s true Chrisitans?
38. Are males and females equal in all things under God?
39. If not a Prophet, what type of person was Mohammed?
40. Religiously, is acceptable for anyone to believe anything they like (ex: Satanism?).
41. Is distinguishing non-Christians from Christians for purposes of taxation good?
42. Is it fine with God to eat Monkey and Ape?
43. Is there a Hell (place of torment) where people will be punished?
44. If so for how long?
45. Will Atheists go to heaven?
46. Will Muslims go to heaven?
47. Will Hindu go to heaven?
48. Because the Jews have returned to Israel - is this the fulfillment of prophecies and will this lead to the return of the Messiah Jesus? If so when?
49. Is a person who was born a Jew and converted to the religion of Christianity still a ‘real” Jew?


Only Question seems to be in Dispute:

48. Firstly is there such a thing as “race”.
49. If so what is it?
50. Are Jews a race of people or not?

I don't have time for this, the answers are in the Bible, great book, why don't you actually look for the answers yourself?

With the considerable number of Christians who you think are on this board, surely several will join in, but perhaps, they think you're just being disingenuous.

Oh, come on, it's like 15 yes/no questions.

I seriously want to make a list here.
What so hard about that?
You know I'm doing the same with Islam, I want to compare the lists and see where common ground lays - or not.

OK screw it - religion sucks...
:)

So would this be a correct summary so far:

Agreed by all Christians thus far:



[QUOTE]3. In an ‘Ideal’ world everyone would be Christian.

This world will never be ideal untill God changes us. So even if the whole world accepted Jesus there would still be sin and suffering.

4. Only Christians will obtain eternal life with God

Only those who accept the Messiah Jesus for the atonment of their sins will obtain eternal life with God.



7. God judge all people and some will go to heaven for eternity.

Some will have eternity with God. but from scriptures i do not believe that will be in heaven.


9. People are born Jew and can not convert into becoming a Jew. There are no “Chinese” Jews.

Maybe some of the jewish dispora made it to china and took chinese partners? how chinese does one have to be to be considered chinese? If a person is 90% chinese but is a decendant of one of the tribes the they are Jewish and Chinese.


25. Of all the Abrahamic Prophets Jesus was the ONLY one who was sinless.

Jesus is not a prophet. He is the Son of God.


30. It is OK to destroy other people’s false idols.

hummm.. It is not ok to unessecaraly provoke other people to anger. It is far better to move the idol worshipper to the point where they will destroy their idol themseves. There is no point in destroying an idol when they idol worshipper still worships the entity the idol represents.








Follow-up Questions:

34. Is it true that if ‘true’ Christianity is followed the society will be a perfect one?

That is untrue, No perfect society will be perfect untill God transforms mankind with the ability to be good.


35. Are Catholics true Christians?

No.

36. Are Protestants true Christians?

A great varity of different beliefs. It is impossable to lump them all together in one group. Some may be true.

37. Are Jehovah’s witness’s true Chrisitans?

No.

38. Are males and females equal in all things under God?

When it come to eternity Yes.

39. If not a Prophet, what type of person was Mohammed?

mohammed was a rejector of the Word of Jesus who was given over deception and to decieve others by the intervention of an angel of darkness who gave him the quran.

40. Religiously, is acceptable for anyone to believe anything they like (ex: Satanism?).

It is not alright. But i would never take any violent action in an attempt to stop anyone believing what they believe in.



41. Is distinguishing non-Christians from Christians for purposes of taxation good?

No. But it is good to give tax relief for those who give money and resources for those less well of in society. The more Governements can encourage charity the less the end cost to the government in direct material assistance to those less well of in their societies.

42. Is it fine with God to eat Monkey and Ape?

Whatever one eats or does not eat does not effect their eternal salvation.

43. Is there a Hell (place of torment) where people will be punished?

Yes

44. If so for how long?

Eternity

45. Will Atheists go to heaven?

Not if they reject the Messiah Jesus as their Redeemer.

46. Will Muslims go to heaven?

Not if they reject the Messiah Jesus as their Redeemer.

47. Will Hindu go to heaven?

Not if they reject the Messiah Jesus as their Redeemer.

48. Because the Jews have returned to Israel - is this the fulfillment of prophecies and will this lead to the return of the Messiah Jesus? If so when?

5 years??? 50 years??? No one knows the exact time or date, but we are told to look for the signs of the end times and the signs are appearing


49. Is a person who was born a Jew and converted to the religion of Christianity still a ‘real” Jew?

Yes they are still a decendant of the tribes of Judah and they are a Christian. They can be both.


Only Question seems to be in Dispute:

48. Firstly is there such a thing as “race”.

Race is real but for some its a blurred thing.

49. If so what is it?

Race is an ariticial division, But people are people and all people are similar.

50. Are Jews a race of people or not?

Jews share a common ancestor, But that does not mean that they are all the same race. They have over the years been seperated and inbread with local populations to often become indistinguishable from them. Think of the Mongols who invaded the middle east. their decendants look very different from the mongold that dwell in Mongolia today. And Mongol people also came to eastern europe and again they are now blended in and are totaly different from the decendants of Mongols who invaded the middle east. But they share a common ancestory that originates from mongolia.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days