ok its my first poll
everybody vote

we all know who Adolph Hitler is right?
good.
i was watching a scary movie called "Last Supper"
so they had a question.

You go back in time to meet Adolph Hitler when he was about 18 years old.
You want to stop all of Hitler's actions.

You have to choose either of these options:
A) Kill 18 year old Hitler and disappear back to the future.
Result: Hitler never lives to fulfill the malevolent actions he would have taken.
or
B) Make 18 year old Hitler your friend, convince him not to take those malevolent actions, and disappear back to the future.
Result: Hitler has no desire to take those actions, and grows up to be a person that would never do any of those bad things.

Nope. Neither of those is a possibility. If you go back in time and try to kill Hitler then all you've done is created a very complex time paradox. What would happen is this:

You go back. Persuade Hitler not to be evil.
Result: Everything still happened the way that its supposed to happen.

The reason for this is because you were always meant to go back in time and tell Hitler those things. What would have made things happen differently, and this is really going to bake your brain, is had you never gone back in time none of that Hitler crap would have happened. Or would it? Confused yet?

r u consciously missing the point?
is it on purpose?
try again.

Cool skill your missing the point. Im saying that according to time that your two outcomes are not possible. Either things stay the same and turn out the same or they stay the same and turn out the same. You cannot change time, its impossible. And even if you did change time it wouldnt be a different reality, it would be this time line. It would of always been this timeline and will always continue to be this timeline. Its a paradox.

I would choose option B

Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
Cool skill your missing the point.
how can i miss the point?
i made the thread.
do i really hav 2 spel it out?
t h e h i t l e r t h i n g i s a n e x a m p l e.
get over it and try again.

No cool skill. There are to many outcomes to just decide between A and B. Time does not work like that.

coolskill;

I think what coffee is saying is this: in order for you to be able to go back in time, the past must remain the same. If the past was any different, you wouldn't exist and therefore couldn't travel into the past. So the past must stay the same. You can't change it, otherwise you uh, couldn't change it :D.

Neat Idear though. I would choose to change him, if such a thing was possible. Let's say that I didn't travel back in time to do it; i just happened to be a good friend of Hitler's when one night, while playing cards and eating sausage, he mentions that he's up for some geonocide. I'd try to convince him otherwise, and then history might be a bit happier. I wouldn't want to kill him, because
a) hilter may have done things we are unaware of (before I changed him) that have contributed to good nice stuff.
b) I couldn't kill ANYONE
c) it would be more fun this way
d) Hitler may have kept other powers in check. Who knows.


On another note, my roomate is puking. :(

Coffee,

So are you saying that chronological events represent a fabric that cannot be folded or torn?

Whatever happened to alternate dimensions, universes ? It would
help to approach this question with the idea that time is not as
linear as you think: just because we have found a way to travel
"time" doesn't mean we're necessarily going back on ours, seem'
sayin' ?

Timeline by Michael Crichton is a good book, if you need more info
on what I mean: they go to an alternate universe where present
time is "medieval" and do a shitload of things, thus altering their
world. Who's to say we couldn't do that if we went in an alternate
universe ?

There's another explanation for how the "linear time" could be
"modified" but I'm lazy and typing this takes away precious CS
time, so I will just say this: ever hear of the infinite universes
theory ? For every choice and action, another universe in which
the original choice and action wasn't done is created. Going
back and killing the fucker doesn't mean our time changes or
that it's impossible if looked at in this light. EDIT: for one of the
"choice universes", there probably wouldn't be a third reich...

I do understand what Coffee means, though...

The wheels were already in motion. Anton Drexler invited Hitler to join the German Workers Party, a movement dedicated to Germany's nationalism and anti-Semitism. Hitler happened to be the best orator of the executive committee and was therefore appointed propaganda manager. However, any top member of the GWP could have supplanted Hitler, hence the probability would exist that most of the events which took place in that time would have happened anyway, given the circumstances and the inevitability for the need to change.

So are you saying that chronological events represent a fabric that cannot be folded or torn?

Yep. This thread should be in the science forum for some more educated answers.

Originally posted by CounslerCoffee
Yep. This thread should be in the science forum for some more educated answers.

Or perhaps we should stick to the topic of this thread and make a new thread about that other topic.

I agree with Q's assessment of the Hitler scenario. The Holocaust would still have happened.

Originally posted by SoLiDUS

Timeline by Michael Crichton is a good book, if you need more info
on what I mean: they go to an alternate universe where present
time is "medieval" and do a shitload of things, thus altering their
world. Who's to say we couldn't do that if we went in an alternate
universe ?

That's one of my favorite books! The beginning has a lot to do with multiverse theory and quantum mechanics and an old guy in the desert :D

I've read it too. great book

Kill the bastard

and then Stargirl discovers that Hitler was her grandpa :D:p

Ive seen it cool skill!!! its great. u know whether they were right or not anyway coolskill (if uve seen it all ;) )

Cant beleive ur all argueing over time.. :rolleyes: I have a post about space. This is because space is the only thing that exists!! You know space exists because you try to put your hand in the spcae where a table already exists (a pope once illistrated this by kicking a stone but i thought of it before i read that!!! A few paragraphs before :) ;) ) you cant right!?? becasue space actually exists!! We measure time with things (watches, a pendulum swinging etc) but does it actually exist?? In one second the earth is spinning on its axis and every blade of grass on the earth is in one position right!!??? the next second things have moved. Time has not changed though (IMO). All thats has happened is that space has changed. The wathes hands have moved from one place to another. in digital watches all that has happened is that space has changed. the pendulum!! the pendulum is in one place, and then another. Time does not atcually exist. (BTW i do agree that time as a concept may exist but i am working on this :D )

p.s Bob Dylan has an album called 'time out of mind' :D :D

and then Stargirl discovers that Hitler was her grandpa

He was Spanish?:bugeye: :D

I think that time by and large is a vector of our universe

He was Spanish? PMSL

Originally posted by *stRgrL*
He was Spanish?:bugeye: :D

actually he was a jew :D , but- who knows...

Plus!! to change time would mean rewinding the universe. imagine. All the planets, atserois,blades of grass are in one place.The next 'second' they have moved on. To get that 'time' back would take an enourmous gravity machine. How the hell can anyone move planets etc abck to certain positions (and people and blades of grass!??)

actually he was a jew , but- who knows... i agree. thats why he hated them. maybe he was on a mission from god. maybe what they do is wrong!?? maybe god did tell isaac (whoever it was) to do it to teach people a lesson and not to listen to him but to use our own reason and minds.to have faith in ourselves. maybe god wanted to look down on the world his little people have created themselves. maybe god 'cut us loose' by abusing the first humans' trust so that they would only trust themselves and therefore do things themselves and create there own world. :D (maybe... :confused: )

Plus!! to change time would mean rewinding the universe. imagine. All the planets, atserois,blades of grass are in one place.The next 'second' they have moved on. To get that 'time' back would take an enourmous gravity machine. How the hell can anyone move planets etc abck to certain positions (and people and blades of grass!??)
don't think so

explain please avatar

you wouldn't have to rewind anything because there would be nothing to rewind, because at the moment when you change smthing in the past , future changes instantly- it simply is as it is, but with the changes you made....trouble explaining--- it would be as if your future never existed and now exists only the future you created

at least I think so-> should move this discussion to physics forum- I'm not a specialist

I chose B. Of course, I would read up more on Hitler, rather than just picking a random point in his life to spread some bastardly do-goodness. I'd go to the early stages of his childhood, and give him a lollipop. Or better yet, go to his moment birth and slap his parents. Twice. :D

Originally posted by Nebula
I think what coffee is saying is this
thank u again
i already kno wat counslercoffee was saying
i hav yet 2 receive evidence that counslercoffe has yet figured out the point of this thread despite me spelling it out.

again, counslercoffees argument is not the point of this thread
its perfectly fine with me if u discuss it,
but if i wanted 2 make an argument about the paradox of time travel, i would hav posted it elswer.

Originally posted by Nebula
On another note, my roomate is puking.
thanx 4 sharing
tell it i said hi


Originally posted by Avatar

and then Stargirl discovers that Hitler was her grandpa
actually he was a jew

hey look star is part jew
shalom!

I understand your point avatar but what im saying is that its not just about building a time machine. Everything has a specific place in space and to go back to a specific time will mean that everything will have to be in its exact place wich is impossible. What about everyones thoughts? You cant get them back. All im saying (and this is my opinion) is that once a moment has passed you cant get it back. I dont think time travel will ever be possible. i know this thread isnt actually about time travel but it is part of it!

(what about a ray of light that has reflected off something and out into space. How can anyone bring that back??) MO

What would the world be like if Adolf had never did all of those crazy things that he is known for.

What would the world be like if Adolf had never did all of those crazy things that he is known for.

Is an absolutely impossible question to answer!

I would kill him lixluke, you see everyone wants to die they just don't know it. Look around you at the homeless, depraved, drug addicts, they all want death but don't realize. Hitler wanted death too which is why he went mad with war and lost.

On a brighter note I would actually go there, see him, do nothing, then leave and not go to the future but instead further in the past and then merely stop his mother from sleeping with anyone but myself, then I'd know he never would exist.

Or you would be Hitlers dad....gross.

I would go back and ask the Vatican not to fund any war that Germany

wanted to start.