With out getting into answers like "at least two objects rubbing againnst each other " and the like what is friction?

I undestand that friction as a rule generates heat, thus transferring energy..

Friction also generates sound and no doubt other things as well.

Lightenning is also a product of friction...yes?

When forcing an object through space are we actually distorting space thus creating a sort of spacial friction, effecting the inertia and kinetics of that object?

Is friction ultimately a form of time space distortion?

Friction is an electromagnetic interaction between the surface atoms on two surfaces. The atoms attract each other. When the surfaces slide across each other, those attractive bonds are broken, which releases heat.

Lightning has nothing to do with friction. It consists of electric currents conducted through ionised air.

There is no friction in the vacuum of space. Friction is particle interaction. It has nothing to do with spacetime distortion.

James R,

Friction is an electromagnetic interaction between the surface atoms on two surfaces. The atoms attract each other. When the surfaces slide across each other, those attractive bonds are broken, which releases heat.

This may just be a case of a poor choice of words but otherwise I can't buy this answer. Like charges repell. Friction is a mechanical function of irregularities of the surface not unlike the energy transfer of a needle in the groove of a record..

Lightning has nothing to do with friction. It consists of electric currents conducted through ionised air.

In general I agree with this one but not entirely. I do think there must be some limited heating and resistance to the passage of the charges through the air. Altough the air is fluid and not solid the pushing against and dislodging air molecules seems to me still fits the basic description of friction. I know it is not normally thought of in those terms. Just thinking out loud.

There is no friction in the vacuum of space. Friction is particle interaction. It has nothing to do with spacetime distortion.

While not the front runner of theories "Tired Light" could be viewed as spatial friction.

It consists of electric currents conducted through ionised air.
And what causes ionised air?

Friction is an electromagnetic interaction between the surface atoms on two surfaces. The atoms attract each other. When the surfaces slide across each other, those attractive bonds are broken, which releases heat. ”

This may just be a case of a poor choice of words but otherwise I can't buy this answer. Like charges repell. Friction is a mechanical function of irregularities of the surface not unlike the energy transfer of a needle in the groove of a record..

Before u guys quickley jumped in, I was going to say it is both of these processes ultimately :)

Friction is generally defined as 'resistance to motion' along the boundary of two objects. It's caused by both mechanical factors - imperfections and the surfaces that get caught up on each other - and chemical factors, which basically amounts to how well the two surfaces stick together. Either chemical or physical factors can dominate, so which one causes the friction depends on the specific objects that you're rubbing together. You can usually reduce the friction to a point by smoothing the objects (sanding, polishing, whatever) because this reduces the mechanical friction, but after a while the friction will start to go back up as the chemical friction takes over. Once the surfaces get smooth enough, more surface area will come into contact between the two objects and chemical friction will go up.

Notions of friction get a little fuzzy when you start talking about things other than two solid objects moving over each other, like air layers flowing over each other.

Of course, chemical friction reduces to electrical friction which has been mentioned previously. Just letting people know!!!

Lightning has nothing to do with friction. It consists of electric currents conducted through ionised air.

I am sorry James, I was told that lightenning was generated by the friction of at least two air masses passing over or under each other thus creating a static charge which is shown as lightenning. Obviously this is according to what you have written a wrong position to take. hmmmmm.....

A question comes to mind:

Do atoms actually ever touch?

Or do they just pass very close to each other pasing through their respective fields thus generating friction ( static or heat or both)?

There is no friction in the vacuum of space. Friction is particle interaction. It has nothing to do with spacetime distortion.
James I can not see how you can draw the distinction between "Space time " and "particle" afterall is not the "particle a part of "space time".

James,
Again I apologise, I just checked my 'ole Webster dictionary and it states
"lightning is caused by a build up of static electricity in clouds.
Charges are formed by friction between air and water droplets and ice particles in the violent air currents assiciated with thunderclouds.....Lightning only occurs when the charge has built sufficiently to over come the resistance of air and create a conductive path........"

Maybe you have misread my question? Or my mispelling of the word "Lightenning" ( lightning ) confused the issue?

QQ, the causes of lightning are complex and not well understood to this day. The
Webster's explaination is the simplified version usually taught in high school. For
decades, scientists have for a 'highly charged' thunderhead and found none. The
thunderheads have a negative charge on the bottom and a positive charge on the
top, but the charges are not great. There are a number of theories as to how the
charges are formed, including friction, but it is not known for certain. Did you know
that a weak 'leader' forms first from the cloud to the ground, then the highly energetic
lightning, the part we see and that does the damage, actually moves from the ground
TO the thunderhead, not from the thunderhead to the ground?

Actually this opens a line of thought from way back.

We take a hair comb and pass it through our hair.

The comb generates a field ( considered as magnetic) that can attract small pieces of paper.

The friction of the comb and hair has created magnetism that attracts something other than iron.

Static magnetism and magnetism created by electricity are similar but very different I think.

The thinking
"Is the static magnetism a product of gravity fields instead of ferro magnetic fields. Or
"The static field seems to be omni poled where as ferro fields are dual poled"
then
" Gravity is an Omni poled magnetic field or or more correrectly an omni poled space time distortion"

Did you know
that a weak 'leader' forms first from the cloud to the ground, then the highly energetic
lightning, the part we see and that does the damage, actually moves from the ground
TO the thunderhead, not from the thunderhead to the ground?

Obviously this implies a state of charge imbalance between the thunderhead and the earth......reagrdless of direction....other than friction, what would cause this charge im-balance?

And I might add
As you have stated lightning is still not fully understood but then again neither is friction or magnetism or gravity or anything else but to state categorically this
Lightning has nothing to do with friction. It consists of electric currents conducted through ionised air.
to me is an rather an incredibly closeminded statement that does the author no justice.
It is possible James was thinking that I was asking whether lightning "is" friction which of course if you re-read my question I clearly ask that lightning is a "Product" of friction which I even qualified with the assumption of doubt by seeking confirmation..(...yes?)
I give the benefit of the doubt to James with the hope that he will confirm his position....

Quantum Quack,

I could be all wet on this but it has always been my understanding that lightening was the release of excessive static electricity formed indeed by friction in air motion in the clouds.

The actual flash is the discharge of electrons through the ionized air. Lightening proceeds from the ground upward. That is the dialectric qualities of the air begin to breakdown at ground level and rises. When the voltage becomes more than the remaining air can isolate the charge ruptures the remaining air and bam.

The current thinking on the process that creates the charge separation in the clouds,
leading to the actual lightning which comes later, does not involve friction. The lightning itself has nothing to do with friction and conditions leading up to it may not.
Here is a link that explains it pretty well, starting with charge separation. Go to the
'next page' each time to get an understanding.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/lightning2.htm

2Inquisitive,

Informative link thanks. I wonder generally where this concept stands in comparison to the friction view.

It makes sense other than I am surprised that moist molecules could develope sufficient collision energy to dislodge the electron!

I had read some about lightning before this thread and knew a little about some of
the newer theories. As i mentioned, I don't think everything is fully understood, but
it does show science is sometimes open to new theories if they seem to do a better
job of explaining something. Now, if someone could come up with a consistent theory
that did a better job of explaining the constant velocity of light than Special Relativity
does, I wonder how welcome it would be? Hopefully, it would be embraced IF there were evidence and verifiable predictions to back the theory up.

it strikes me....( ha .....excuse the weakness of my pun) that the cloud and the ground can be taken as analoguous with a field coil ( typically used in cars ) tesla coil I think it's derived from

The cloud, for reasons yet to be fully determined, developes a magnetic feild that collapses thus generating the static electricity outcome.

It is not unknown that with an automotive coil that if we reverse the polarity we have a static charge travelling from engine to spark plug due to the coils field collapse rather than the usual opposite direction. So therefore I would think that the polarity of the cloud determines whether lightning travels up or down or sideways. ( unless of course we go on to state that the surface of the ground can also change polarity....hmmmmm...)

As I have suggested in another thread and in this one I tend to believe that magnetic fields are space time distortions.

The Thinking
"The clouds activities generate a local space time distortion ( field ) and the the undistorted space around it simply tries to neutralise the distortion by satisfying the imbalance."

A question comes to mind:

Do atoms actually ever touch?

Or do they just pass very close to each other pasing through their respective fields thus generating friction ( static or heat or both)?

U have to remember, atoms are systems and not simple objects. The word touch is often used in day to day terminology but u have to ask yourself what do u really mean when u say touch here.

p.s. when u figure it out, tell me what u mean too k?!

I am already assuming I guess that the act of touching is not what is it's usual definition.
I expect that touching atoms is really about fields coming into contact in that an Atom is only a very intense composite field. So to touch is not really the right word.

So therefore friction is caused by distorions of these fields thus generating energy ( Heat)
If one thinks of these fields as space time distortions then one can see that by distortion the effect is a release of energy.

So by rubbing two objects together we are in fact distorting space time and in doing so create the energy.

The thinking
If one thinks of space time as being past and future combined as a duality, then when distorting spacetime we change the balance of this duality ( past/future) A past bias created would be negative energy (static) and a future bias created would be positive energy ( static)

If one thinks of these fields as space time distortions then one can see that by distortion the effect is a release of energy.

I can't see that!

Whast happens is, the interaction of the fiels passes kinetic energy on to the individual atoms (and or molecules). Thats all. This kinetic energy is the ultimate fate of the universes energy.