So I go outside to have a smoke and enjoy the night sky as an escape from 'work'. Whilst smoking, I start bemoaning the fact that it is homecoming weekend at a nearby 'party' university and my working schedule for the weekend essentially implies that I will not partake in any of the hedonism that will ensue-- sucks. But then, I realize that this train of thought must serve a purpose outside simple 'bemoaning'; else why would I think it when I am smoking? The purpose immediately becomes realizable when I become conscious of the fact that I am smoking a cigarette when I am aware of all the indications (cancer, etc) that follows smoking. My brain, by ensuring that I don’t recognize consciously, the slow physical death I am causing myself, provides a defense in the form of a disassociation. I am thinking of everything and anything except the fact that I am smoking. Being addicted to smoking, my body needs the nicotine that the cigarette provides; my brain also understands that smoking will kill me. And although the brain is developed to ensure its survival, my need for nicotine is more immediate and thus it has to trick itself and secede to an immediate need and forgo the stark implications.

So why all this mess? Well, it occurred to me that denial is essentially all that there is. People claim that they have accepted that they will die and so do not think of it. This is a lie. Your brain has not consciously accepted its eventual death. Accepting this death will cause the brain to not function. The knowledge of a future death is merely relegated to a 'semi'-conscious realization and therefore does not interfere with the conscious undertakings of the brain. Expectations, hope, wishes, etc ...all these are abstractions of denial. In fact, the brain cannot function unless it is in denial. This implies many important things.

1. Consciousness ceases with death
If consciousness did not end with death, the brain would not need to deny the eventuality of death. Throughout life, the brain seeks to survive--this is the nature of man. If man's whole being is survivability, then how can man accept that his whole essence is pointless? The brain must understand therefore that 'death' is its death. --Bad form that I will note revise---.

2. The self is not the only consciousness
How do I reach this conclusion? I have no freaking idea. I will think of it later.

dear lord!

:D

Well ofcourse. Knowing and expecting are two different things and if you have previous experience (in this case a near death experience) then you're ahead of the game.

Your brain has not consciously accepted its eventual death. Accepting this death will cause the brain to not function.
You seem to have developed some strange ideas about my brain.
Playing neurologist now Hed?
Dee Cee

Eerrmm, I thought there were enough philosophies and religions out there to either make you accept death happily, or else once you realise your going to die and accept it, your much more free than you used to be, in fact that is likely the aim of one or two more philosophies.

So why all this mess? Well, it occurred to me that denial is essentially all that there is. People claim that they have accepted that they will die and so do not think of it. This is a lie. Your brain has not consciously accepted its eventual death.

You're fliging through a vast swath of 'empty' space on an oblioid ball some 93 million miles from a chaotic absurdity of nuclear fusion knit up in a ball.

Its hot enough to fry an egg on your car roof and yet the only thing protecting you from its fry is a thin radiation belt of ionized gas..............

As you read this, your sitting on a thin layer of crust- the only thing keeping you from the thermodynamic caldrons of hell some few hundreds of meters under your feet.

And yet what inspired you to realize the tossed salad of "living in denial".............................................is a cigarette? Short of being an inanity, I am not above crediting you for making me chuckle.


Ha.

Classic.

Fat bitch:
As I sit on this on this chair with my 'gargoyle' talons, ears and teeth, I wonder if I should blow you a kiss for old time's sake or stick a foot up your ass. To even suggest that the tripe you spew about the 'gargoyle' is suggestive of the masses the hed ecounters is nonsense. 'Sevi'? Yes, a fucking cigarette. Still cannot sleep eh, porcelain bitch? Dreaming about the carribean dick tearing your insides apart, whilst knowing the carribean dick is only liable to fuck you if stoned and drunk?

Guess what I did today? I actually decided to hit the 'ghetto' and find me a bitch, just to see if your asessment is correct. I found me a piece of degenerative caucasian pussy. Touche.

fountainhed:
Now now, acting like a David Duke caricature only makes you look - well, it rather reveals your true character.
Carry on.

My favorite bitch Xev:
Now that's a silly compare. I'm merely seeping to levels she set in the Look thread: "I’m not denying that you have sex ::cringe:: but I picture you fucking a hoodrat with some modern homosexual love jam playing in the background. She knows shit about science or the conflicts of ‘first cause’ but godamn can she squeal when you’re drilling her insides."

(It's so funny to see the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man pretend that it has a penis)

A diversion from your first silly attempt. If I respond to this silliness from you, you will again simply divert. This is not fun for it is predictable and silly. I did a google search for this marshmallow character and I must say your imagination is seriously degenerating. A better comeback that is amusing and imaginative will do Xev. If you cannot offer such, stick to Cliff notes for now.

Fuck you! ( From reading a few threads I assume this is the official sciforums greeting phrase. ) :D

Denial is indeed a survival mechanism of the brain, it causes us to take risks and be courageous and therefore assuring the survival of the species, to put it shortly.
The ego will die, that is what the brain is sensing and the ego is fearing.
The ego is not the only consciousness, there is a multitude of consciousnesses to tap into once released from the ego.

That's pretty good Yes, oh btw, welcome on board you stupid c**t:D

Thank you Tablariddim, you bitch! :D

Actually Hed, this is pretty sharp thread. :) People spend most of their waking hours denying everything and it builds up in increasing frustration. The most basic denial in biological, such as denying death momentarily, etc. Then there is a denial that comes from having to co-operate in a community. This is simple survival level sacrifice and comes with the positive benefits of being in a society/tribal unit. Then there is the moral denial (advanced by religion, over-socialization, philosophy, etc) which is the most restraining. While community denial I think functions to rise above animal thought and support a superior human idealism, I think moral idealism creates a modern schizophrenia, where your reality is different from your imagination and people have a sort of alter ego that they are afraid to act on. People deny themselves animalistic instincts to screw, kill, and run around in circles like dogs. I want to bang my neighbor and blow her family's brains out, but I can't since I will face the law (the law is controlled by denial addicts). Yet these instincts, if unleashed, would mean the ultimate degeneration of a civilization. It's tricky.

Yes, you fucking piece of dung eating caricature of brainless, legless, spineless twat :D:
Denial is indeed a survival mechanism of the brain, it causes us to take risks and be courageous and therefore assuring the survival of the species, to put it shortly.
The ego will die, that is what the brain is sensing and the ego is fearing.
The ego is not the only consciousness, there is a multitude of consciousnesses to tap into once released from the ego.

Can you please expand on your assertion of multiple consciounessness?

and2000x:

While community denial I think functions to rise above animal thought and support a superior human idealism, I think moral idealism creates a modern schizophrenia, where your reality is different from your imagination and people have a sort of alter ego that they are afraid to act on. People deny themselves animalistic instincts to screw, kill, and run around in circles like dogs. I want to bang my neighbor and blow her family's brains out, but I can't since I will face the law (the law is controlled by denial addicts). Yet these instincts, if unleashed, would mean the ultimate degeneration of a civilization. It's tricky.
:cool:

Your claims as to the creators of this is however debatable...Either way, a good viewpoint that I will give the time it warrants at a latter date. See, I am not such a bad guy..

Fountainhead:
As I sit on this on this chair with my 'gargoyle' talons, ears and teeth, I wonder if I should blow you a kiss for old time's sake or stick a foot up your ass. To even suggest that the tripe you spew about the 'gargoyle' is suggestive of the masses the hed ecounters is nonsense. 'Sevi'? Yes, a fucking cigarette. Still cannot sleep eh, porcelain bitch? Dreaming about the carribean dick tearing your insides apart, whilst knowing the carribean dick is only liable to fuck you if stoned and drunk
Pause. Frowing. Confusion.

I wonder what any of our personal scuffles have to do with my simple observations of you wasting the metaphysical on a cigarette of all things. The likeliest place to ponder the human plight, the absurd, the Nausea would be up on a mountaintop or down in the depths of an ocean in a submersible absorbing the savage, contradictory beauty of living.


Learn where to place your vendettas. And learn when to drop them as well.

I wonder what any of our personal scuffles have to do with my simple observations of you wasting the metaphysical on a cigarette of all things.
Let's just say when for two damn weeks one person sticks to the same nonsense, the other tends to expect the same from them. I assumed you were questioning the source of my "inspiration"...

The likeliest place to ponder the human plight, the absurd, the Nausea would be up on a mountaintop or down in the depths of an ocean in a submersible absorbing the savage, contradictory beauty of living.
No not really. I can state with great confidence that most "pondering" of the human plight has been done in the most mundane places....

Learn where to place your vendettas. And learn when to drop them as well.
Truly you cannot possibly think I hold a vandetta against you...that would be nonsensical. If you attempt to "flame" the hed and I am in the mood, I will respond. It doesn't go beyond that, nor do I hold any personal bla bla bla bla. I still don't like your unworthy egotism and think you need to read more and be less assertive, but hey, what the hell...

Originally posted by thefountainhed
Well, it occurred to me that denial is essentially all that there is. Expectations, hope, wishes, etc ...all these are abstractions of denial. In fact, the brain cannot function unless it is in denial. I agree , denial is equally persent to acknowledgement , each phenomena gains existance (is being acknowledged) through denial of the opposite .

Denial , in the same way as acknowledgement , has as function survival , clearly acknowledgement of that what ought to be denied causes damage which is the reason it is being denied in the first place . This goes for issues on all sorths of levels and spheres and sections . This goes as you said for everything . Consciousness ceases with death
If consciousness did not end with death, the brain would not need to deny the eventuality of death. This only implies that consciousness as exists through your living brain ceazes to exist , it does not exclude other forms (or higher levels) of consciousness outside of the living brain . If man's whole being is survivability, then how can man accept that his whole essence is pointless? He cannot . However neother can he deny the lack of knowledge regarding everything that will accur after his death . To assume survival as ultimate destiny is to deny the lack of knowledge regarding this destiny when survival as a living creature has failed. The brain must understand therefore that 'death' is its death As far as man can know , death is the denial of life . There is no acknowledging defintion of death , obviously .

Originally posted by gendanken
You're fliging through a vast swath of 'empty' space on an oblioid ball some 93 million miles from a chaotic absurdity of nuclear fusion knit up in a ball.

Its hot enough to fry an egg on your car roof and yet the only thing protecting you from its fry is a thin radiation belt of ionized gas..............

As you read this, your sitting on a thin layer of crust- the only thing keeping you from the thermodynamic caldrons of hell some few hundreds of meters under your feet.

And yet what inspired you to realize the tossed salad of "living in denial".............................................is a cigarette? Short of being an inanity, I am not above crediting you for making me chuckle.


Ha.

Classic.

LOL. You and the HED are straight BLEEK yo.

Denial is a psychological term which I believe you're stretching past its useful boundaries.

If I'm an asshole to my kid and tell myself everyday "it's because it's good for them" when in fact it's because I have deep seated emotional problems, that is a decent usage of the word.

When it comes to smoking, or riding on the planet flying through space, that is NOT denial. It's simple irrelevance. You aren't going to die NOW so what does it matter? You brain doesn't neet to bog itself down with shit that is inconsequential for immediate survival. You still KNOW it's horrible for you, but you choose to think you'll be lucky and escape the odds. I don't think that the term "denial" is really applicable in this case AT ALL.

Sure if you're smart you can plan for long term survivability, but that's really pretty far outside of "denial". It's freakin CONTEXT that you're talking about. The long term implications of your actions don't make sense in terms of your immediate context, so it just doesn't come up until you start thinking in a different context. At that point you acknowleged the long term detractors, assessed that you will change your habits before it effects you or that you'll be one of the lucky few, though you know you might be wrong, and you move on back to your short term context or a long term context that doesn't really have much to do with your smoking.

I mean afterall, in terms of your short-term context how do you know you'll even exist tomorrow let alone smoke?

"The likeliest place to ponder the human plight, the absurd, the Nausea would be up on a mountaintop or down in the depths of an ocean in a submersible absorbing the savage, contradictory beauty of living."

You have actually read Camus "the stranger" havnt you?

Shut the fuck up you filthy eyebrowpicking, crossdressing cesspoolhat ! :D

*expanding*
Everything that exists has a consciousness, even if it has no brain it has an atomic, cellular etc whatever consciousness. The ego is a barrier constructed between you and the rest of the conscious universe, to protect your current identity from collapsing. In order to believe this physical existence we are in, we have given ourselves spiritual limitations, otherwise we wouldn't take the physical existence for real and not benefit from the growing opportunities given within this reality.
There is of course no way of proving this, or it would have been done a long time ago, but that makes no difference to me, just to the ones who won't take my word for it.
*stops expanding*

Ghassan,


This only implies that consciousness as exists through your living brain ceazes to exist , it does not exclude other forms (or higher levels) of consciousness outside of the living brain .
I meant the consciounness existing only with the self. But even then, from the subjective viewpoint, outside consciounessnes must cease to exist after its death.
quote:

He cannot . However neother can he deny the lack of knowledge regarding everything that will accur after his death . To assume survival as ultimate destiny is to deny the lack of knowledge regarding this destiny when survival as a living creature has failed.
You donot think that this "knowledge" regarding occurences after the death of the brain can also be a form of denial? Comfort in say being remebered when dead, etc...

Wesmorris,
Denial is a psychological term which I believe you're stretching past its useful boundaries.
This definition: "Psychology. An unconscious defense mechanism characterized by refusal to acknowledge painful realities, thoughts, or feelings. "? I do not see it...

If I'm an asshole to my kid and tell myself everyday "it's because it's good for them" when in fact it's because I have deep seated emotional problems, that is a decent usage of the word.
No not a good use, as the denial is conscious.

When it comes to smoking, or riding on the planet flying through space, that is NOT denial.
Smoking is not denial. The denial is the the unconsciously deliberate attempt to not fully realize the dangers of smoking.

It's simple irrelevance. You aren't going to die NOW so what does it matter? You brain doesn't neet to bog itself down with shit that is inconsequential for immediate survival.
Incorrect. To fully realize that the brain will die, cease to exist will 'bog' the brain down. This is simply because all withh lose relevance.

You still KNOW it's horrible for you, but you choose to think you'll be lucky and escape the odds. I don't think that the term "denial" is really applicable in this case AT ALL.
You are not looking...

Consciously "denying" something.... is not applicable. I am speaking of unconscious decisions--this is the psychological def.

/This definition: "Psychology. An unconscious defense mechanism characterized by refusal to acknowledge painful realities, thoughts, or feelings. "? I do not see it...

I understand it.

/No not a good use, as the denial is conscious.

No in that case it is NOT. Please re-read it and consider that the in that scenario, I cannot admit to myself that I'm an ass to my daughter so I LIE to myself unconsciously that I'm cool. Perhaps my wording was not perfect but I do hope you understand my meaning with this clarification.

/Smoking is not denial. The denial is the the unconsciously deliberate attempt to not fully realize the dangers of smoking.

Did you miss my entire point about context? Funny that you say on the first example "not it is conscious" when in fact it is NOT, and in the second case (smoking) it IS conscious as you fucking KNOW you're kicking your own ass by doing it but you don't think of it all the time because it's simply inconvenient to your pleasure.

/Incorrect. To fully realize that the brain will die, cease to exist will 'bog' the brain down. This is simply because all withh lose relevance.

BUT THERE IS NO SURE DEAL THAT IT WILL. You don't even know you'll be alive tomorrow!!!!!!!! Use your HED damnit.

/You are not looking...

Uh huh. It's me. LOL. Bastard. :)

/Consciously "denying" something.... is not applicable. I am speaking of unconscious decisions--this is the psychological def.

Der, and you're all jacked up in your thinking. Tell me... are you in denial that if you were to stick your finger in the wall socket that it would kill you? I doubt you are. Why? Because you die NOW. With fun things like smoking, you DON'T die now, so really there is non reason to worry about it until LATER. It's not denial, it's a conscious hedging of your bets. If you're a bad gambler that's a different issue eh?

:bugeye: I will be back to respond. Rest assured...

http://www.escp.org/three_forms_death_anxiety.html

Originally posted by spookz
http://www.escp.org/three_forms_death_anxiety.html

Any words of your own, panzy?

:D

Call me stubborn, but I think he does the same thing that HED and Gendy did. I simply don't buy that shit as "denial". That's a crock of psycho-babble bullshit. You've seen my argument. Do you have a good reason I should change my mind abou tit? (obviously quoting some MD doesn't do it)

I suppose my argument is semantic, or rather the scope of use of the word, but as I said.. IMO, this is taking the concept too far. If I don't think of something I know will impede me in some way, that doesn't mean I'm pretending it won't happen. I can accept the risk and endeavor to succeed despite odds one way or another. If I were to focus specifically on potential impending doom, etc - then my chances of success distinctly diminish. I suppose IMO, to use "denial" in the form that is used by the MD and our esteemed members HED and Gendy, then the word loses all meaning.

I suppose that's not to say that it can't be that many people are in denial of such things... but it isn't necessarily that way. In HED's example for instance I don't think the word denial is at all applicable.

yes, bullshit;)
nah just kidding. tho hed appears to have got off to a bad start, there might be more to it. perhaps my "dear lord" was a bit too hasty. i do agree with your assessment (i am a smoker and there is no denial)

http://www.dmu.ac.uk/~jamesa/learning/dissonance.htm

OK fine, lets say the usage of denial is being stretched too far; it still does not refute the assertion that the brain is constantly relegating its death, etc to a 'sub' conscious state.

Originally posted by thefountainhed
OK fine, lets say the usage of denial is being stretched too far; it still does not refute the assertion that the brain is constantly relegating its death, etc to a 'sub' conscious state.

I can't argue with that but I will add:

Why do you think the brain relegates it? Don't you think that it's a survival tactic? If for instance you spend all of your time with death on your mind, what happens to your outlook? Why not kill yourself RIGHT NOW and spare the fucking anticipation?

It's simply contrary to survival to constantly focus on the end of one's existence. The end will come soon enough.

I'm pretty sure the end is coming for you just fine on its own. It doesn't need a lot of help from you constantly dwelling on it.

Know what I mean?

I think the most important thing is that even with "death on your mind" you have not consciously realized death. If your brain did such, it would die. Yes it is a survival tactic, but that is really not the focus. The focus is how subconscious 'everything' is...

/I think the most important thing is that even with "death on your mind" you have not consciously realized death. If your brain did such, it would die.

You been watching the matrix too much? LOL

Not to be rude but in a sense isn't it a non-statement? I mean in a way aren't you really saying "you can't realize you're dead because you'd already be dead and you know, how can you realize you're dead when you're dead?"

/The focus is how subconscious 'everything' is...

Yes, choice of immediate awareness is an interesting topic indeed. There's a huge element of habit to it and well, seems like a different topic to me. I'll think aboot it and get back when I have time. Trying to program stuff now.

You been watching the matrix too much? LOL
LOL. No, not really. And the 2nd was better than the first...

Not to be rude but in a sense isn't it a non-statement? I mean in a way aren't you really saying "you can't realize you're dead because you'd already be dead and you know, how can you realize you're dead when you're dead?"
No. I am saying that if the brain fully realizes that it will die, it will literarily die.

Yes, choice of immediate awareness is an interesting topic indeed. There's a huge element of habit to it and well, seems like a different topic to me. I'll think aboot it and get back when I have time.
Do so, m8.

Trying to program stuff now
Geek.:cool:

/LOL. No, not really. And the 2nd was better than the first...

I liked them about the same, I'm STOKED for the next one. Looks AWESOME.

/No. I am saying that if the brain fully realizes that it will die, it will literarily die.

I knew that's what you were saying. Now re-read? Don't you think the statements are really equivalent? Eh. Not a big deal. Could be all that crack I smoke.

Don't you think the statements are really equivalent? Eh. Not a big deal. Could be all that crack I smoke.

Hmmm. No not really. You are saying that if death you cannot fully realize. I am saying that you cannot fully realize because you will die. I"ll think about it some more to see if we aren't thinking of the end.

Wes:

LOL. You and the HED are straight BLEEK yo.

Define bleek. I asked a gansta and a cracka if they knew the tounge and they laughed at me.


Denial is a psychological term which I believe you're stretching past its useful boundaries.
Certainly. You'll see why in a sec....

When it comes to smoking, or riding on the planet flying through space, that is NOT denial. It's simple irrelevance. You aren't going to die NOW so what does it matter? You brain doesn't neet to bog itself down with shit that is inconsequential for immediate survival. You still KNOW it's horrible for you, but you choose to think you'll be lucky and escape the odds. I don't think that the term "denial" is really applicable in this case AT ALL.



Of course not. I never called it denial. I don't think its denial, but I I would if each of us here went around with the chilling thought of the universe on the mind 24 hours a day.
Had you been standing at Amocco pumping gas and repressing the illogical of living on a rotating globe then it would be denial. We don't do that. I do at times, but that's madness. Head noise.

Anyway, I was only laughing to find that fountainhed would come to his .........."conclusions'.......smoking pot. Pot.
That was like having a clip from the Enquirer sparking serious thoughts on theosophy. Found it funny.

Sure if you're smart you can plan for long term survivability, but that's really pretty far outside of "denial". It's freakin CONTEXT that you're talking about. The long term implications of your actions don't make sense in terms of your immediate context, so it just doesn't come up until you start thinking in a different context. At that point you acknowleged the long term detractors, assessed that you will change your habits before it effects you or that you'll be one of the lucky few, though you know you might be wrong, and you move on back to your short term context or a long term context that doesn't really have much to do with your smoking.


Godammn....
If this was an SAT, question 5 would go like this:

Medicine Woman: pet word 'Xian'
as
Wessy: pet word 'context'


I get what you are saying. It would be denial if the universe factored in to the everyday, but it does not. Denial is a lie, either conscious or not only becuase it deals with the psyche. I would rather have fountainhed call it a 'remote absurdity we touch upon depending on mood' rather than denial.

Guthrie:
You have actually read Camus "the stranger" havnt you?
Who hasn't? Its what kindergartners are into nowadays. Camus had nothing to do with my post here.

*raises his hand*
Hi.
I've never read Camus.

Hello there.

Don't bother. You can read "The Stranger" on the pot with your eyes closed.

He says nothing in there you can't think up on your own.

Rolling on......have you nothing to say on denial?

This thread needs filling.

Denial?
As in what?
Why it exists?

To keep us together.
Yup yup..
Could say more, but I'm still trying to figure out the last variables, so I can 't exactly tell you what they are. If only I had your memory, I could remember what the hell I am trying to remember.
.
.
.
Fuck it.
What's the question again?

What's the question again?
The question, good sir, was what would be the perfect mechanism to pick earwax in public and not have your neighbors think you're a puerco.

Weren't you fucking paying attention?


Denial?
As in what?
Why it exists?

Yup.

To keep us together
Ouch.
Indeed.

Caught one-
Wessy:
It's simply contrary to survival to constantly focus on the end of one's existence. The end will come soon enough
And is it not hillarious to find that this clashes with what comes so natural to us humans- obsessive neurosis. Its what defines the species most adept to surviving.

Originally posted by gendanken
The question, good sir, was what would be the perfect mechanism to pick earwax in public and not have your neighbors think you're a puerco.

Weren't you fucking paying attention?

Nope..and I'm not goign to answer that..
Next part.



And is it not hillarious to find that this clashes with what comes so natural to us humans- obsessive neurosis. Its what defines the species most adept to surviving.

Actually, the two don't clash at all.
Your ON could almost be veiwed as a form of denial, in a couple different ways. Focusing attention on the problem gives the illusion that there may be a possible solution. If there is isn't, then you are denying that possibility.
The other way I like better. We tend to focus on little things that aren't really important so that we might deny the existance of bigger problems.

Either way, it doesn't clash.

Anyway, I was only laughing to find that fountainhed would come to his .........."conclusions'.......smoking pot. Pot.
A cigarette :cool:

I get what you are saying. It would be denial if the universe factored in to the everyday, but it does not. Denial is a lie, either conscious or not only becuase it deals with the psyche. I would rather have fountainhed call it a 'remote absurdity we touch upon depending on mood' rather than denial.
But the universe factors in everyday-- you smoke everyday; your brain is aware that smoking will kill you. You will watch someone die of lung cancer caused by smoking and still go out and do it. The addiction is irrelevant when it comes to survival. Therefore it must be an evolutionary technique to fight against addictions or self damaging behaviours-- a defense in the form of relegating an action to the subconscious-- denying your conscious from realizing the truth fully-- through camouflging,disaasociation, etc,

Wesmorris:
Sure if you're smart you can plan for long term survivability, but that's really pretty far outside of "denial". It's freakin CONTEXT that you're talking about. The long term implications of your actions don't make sense in terms of your immediate context, so it just doesn't come up until you start thinking in a different context. At that point you acknowleged the long term detractors, assessed that you will change your habits before it effects you or that you'll be one of the lucky few, though you know you might be wrong, and you move on back to your short term context or a long term context that doesn't really have much to do with your smoking.

First of all this : that you'll be one of the lucky few, though you know you might be wrong, and you move on back to your short term context or a long term context that doesn't really have much to do with your smoking is denial in that it is serves as assurement when the fact still remains that continuing, you shall die.

I do understand what you mean by prologing or ignoring the effect of the realization until something ignites your brain to tackle the issue consciously. What I am asserting is that, this defensive technique is denial, becuase if you understand the effects of an action eventually leads to death, you will STOP. The smoker does not stop because the smoker is physically addicted to nicotine. The brain therefore must present lies to itself--' it won't happen anything soon', ''m gonna die, anyway', 'I can always quit', etc etc. Ever seen people with cancer from smoking that still smoke outside in their hspital gowns? Tell this individual that the next cigarette you put to your mouth will kill you immediately. The addiction will be relegated to second nature. The knowledge of the impending death is never fully conscious, it cannot. But this makes no fucking sense because we cannot physically and consciously relegate such an action. It must be a defense mechanism in the same mode as subconscious denial.

/First of all this : that you'll be one of the lucky few, though you know you might be wrong, and you move on back to your short term context or a long term context that doesn't really have much to do with your smoking is denial in that it is serves as assurement

Please illustrate exactly how that is assurement. (I'm not a smoker if that's what you mean, I quit over a year ago) You think I'm trying to assure YOU? I am but only in that I understand why you're wrong about insisting that this is denial.

/when the fact still remains that continuing, you shall die.

Sure. But doesn't every life end in death?

/I do understand what you mean by prologing or ignoring the effect of the realization until something ignites your brain to tackle the issue consciously.

Well that and what is the point of thinking of it? The delay of the effect is so far removed and probabilistic that it eludes the survival instinct's early warning systems. That's why it's so insidious.

/What I am asserting is that, this defensive technique is denial,

And I illustrated to you exactly why it isn't. At least I thought I did. Perhaps you'll explain below.

/becuase if you understand the effects of an action eventually leads to death, you will STOP.

But you're ignoring that it's a function of probability, not immediate danger. There is no certainty that your action leads to death, the effects so far removed that it can be

/The smoker does not stop because the smoker is physically addicted to nicotine.

Okay.

/The brain therefore must present lies to itself--' it won't happen anything soon', ''m gonna die, anyway', 'I can always quit', etc etc.

Those are not lies. That is why it's insidious.

/Ever seen people with cancer from smoking that still smoke outside in their hspital gowns?

Yup.

/Tell this individual that the next cigarette you put to your mouth will kill you immediately.

How could you convince them? They've been doing it that long and the last one didn't kill them. Why should this time be any different?

The addiction will be relegated to second nature.

Certainly, habit. Having a habit it not denial.

/The knowledge of the impending death is never fully conscious, it cannot.

Okay. How is that relevant? It's conscious enough to know about it right.. otherswise how could you, the addicted, so clearly deliniate how you're lying to yourself abou tit so clearly?

/But this makes no fucking sense because we cannot physically and consciously relegate such an action.

I'm sorry... which action are you referring to?

/It must be a defense mechanism in the same mode as subconscious denial.

I don't think you have justified that conclusion at all.