I've heard this from so many different people that it's not even funny..... "some guy created the bible to entertain people and/or make people believe he's a messiah" Now for those of you that think that way, think about this... Why would some guy or girl or what have you write the bible down when in doing that it would take years upon years to write, not to mention for no publicity or monetary reward because people did not buy books back then. let me know your thoughts on this subject, thanks

Well first off, nobody wrote "the bible" - it was assembled in its final form from a lot of sources following the council of nicaea. They also decided which bits to throw out, as an aside....

As to who wrote the "bits"... Many historians will write summaries, articles, analyses, etc. for no financial gain, simply because they're interested in the subject. That does not autmatically mean they are correct in their analysis. Not only that, but if you give several historians the task of summarising an event or series of events independantly of each other, they will all come up with different stories. Sounds kinda familiar.... doesn't it?

I would agree with you that those who say "its just a story" are obviously incorrect, because the bible seems to have some form of historical basis. That does NOT mean, though, that it is in way true to actual events, nor, as the church would have it, that the council of Nicaea was "inspired by god" when they gathered the "official" versions into one final document.

Originally posted by Squid Vicious
I would agree with you that those who say "its just a story" are obviously incorrect, because the bible seems to have some form of historical basis. That does NOT mean, though, that it is in way true to actual events, nor, as the church would have it, that the council of Nicaea was "inspired by god" when they gathered the "official" versions into one final document.

No it's not just a story, it's a series of short stories, some that are sequels to previous ones.:p

The bible is full of short stories, you are correct about that. But they're all part of one big story which is the bible. And all of it's meanings and stories are the true testements of the lord jesus.

To answer your question - I would do it.
If I thought there was the slightest chance of my book becoming a hundredth as accepted as the bible is I would take the time to make it as realistic as possible and however long it might take to write the entire thing out by hand.

Why? Because it's fucking hilarious to see people making idiots of themselves.

Scientology.

so what your saying is you would write a 1000 page book only to recieve publicity and exceptance 1500 years later. I highly doubt it.

Are you kidding?? Of course!!! What could possibly be funnier? I would laugh my ass for the rest of my life if just ONE person accepted my book as truth let alone a whole group!!!!! And if I thought that in the future millions would accept it?? Holy shit!!! I would probably piss myself multiple times at just how hilarious it is!!!!! I would write a 10,000 page book to do that!!!!

So what is your take on the bible, are you an athiest and believe that someone like yourself wrote the bible for self amusement. Or do you believe in the good word of our lord and saviour jesus christ.

Okay, try to take in these few ideas please.

- The christian religion and bible were developed over a long period by many different people, collecting and collating stories from other religions and cultures.

For example:

- The entire "god sends his son down to die for our sins" thing, including the bit about rising three days after his death, was stolen from Mithraism.
- The demons and angels, it seems to me, was nicked from Zoroastrianism.
- The whole Noah's Ark story was pinched from the Akkadians.
- The goat-legged devil? Pan.

Every damn thing in that book was ripped off from somewhere else, incorporated into their new religion because it was far easier than making stuff up anew. Also it was easier to simply change a few terms and continue old stories than to try getting cultures to entirely dump their old beliefs.

Scientology is an exmple of someone making up a religion just for the hell of it. Or for being remembered after death. It has no basis in reality, the guy just did it.

How are you so sure that the bible supposedly "ripped off" these religions. How do you know that those religions didn't rip off the bible. unless you are hundreds of years old, you have no proof of the statements you just mentioned.

Oh you silly kid. Records of earlier religions and such prove it. For example, clay tablets from Akkadian culture which predate the christian mythology by a long time, containing the same story? Think about it.

mossfan you should probably think about reading something before you reply.

First off, it's not a good idea, generally, to summarize an entire people and that's what you seem to be doing about atheists thinking the bible was a joke by some guys. I'm guessing you have some friends that believe that.

I said I would do it (and that's true) - but I highly doubt that is the way the bible was written.

Second, the way Adam knows they didn't rip off the bible is because they ALL came BEFORE Christ was supposedly born. Do a little research.


"So what is your take on the bible, are you an athiest and believe that someone like yourself wrote the bible for self amusement. Or do you believe in the good word of our lord and saviour jesus christ."

The bible was likely developed like every other of the thousands of religions that came before it. People like to believe in magic men, so they make up magic men. I doubt someone wrote it for self amusement in the way you are asking.

I have a question adam, where were the following religions/cultures based (geographically)

Mithraism.
Zoroastrianism.
Akkadians.

Originally posted by mossfan125
I have a question adam, where were the following religions/cultures based (geographically)

Mithraism.
Zoroastrianism.
Akkadians.
Well, I couldn't be bothered checking for exact locations in my books and such, but as far as I recall right now (and I'm drunk):
- Mithraism: Around the north and east shores of the Mediterranean.
- Zoroastrianism: Persia.
- Akkadians: Mesopotamia.

What is the one thing that will give a human being eternal life? Believing in jesus christ. Now I am not trying to offend you in any way when I say this, but you are a very close minded person. Why would god give us ultimate proof of jesus? He wouldn't because everyone would believe in him, thats not a bad thing
but im sure the lord would only want the faithful and smart people(that can see past all those false supposed proofs of the non-
existence of jesus) into heaven. So your just buying into all those temptations that god has laid out for you. It's not your fault you were probably just raised up that way.

Originally posted by mossfan125
What is the one thing that will give a human being eternal life? Believing in jesus christ. Now I am not trying to offend you in any way when I say this, but you are a very close minded person. Why would god give us ultimate proof of jesus? He wouldn't because everyone would believe in him, thats not a bad thing
but im sure the lord would only want the faithful and smart people(that can see past all those false supposed proofs of the non-
existence of jesus) into heaven. So your just buying into all those temptations that god has laid out for you. It's not your fault you were probably just raised up that way.

As a non-denominational theist, I would say becareful with these atheists.

They will..err...literally gang rape you up the ass...:D

Or in other words...counter what you have said with great ease.

They can say YOU were raised up that way, it's not YOUR fault either. You can apply such reasoning to any one person. In debates it fairly hard to challenge.

Goodluck, and atheists, one at a time please...no gang rapes allowed!! :mad: :p :D

What is the one thing that will give a human being eternal life?

Immortality.


Believing in jesus christ. Now I am not trying to offend you in any way when I say this, but you are a very close minded person.

Actually, when you say someone is wrong for not sharing your beliefs, that is awfully close to facism.


Why would god give us ultimate proof of jesus? He wouldn't because everyone would believe in him, thats not a bad thing
but im sure the lord would only want the faithful and smart people(that can see past all those false supposed proofs of the non-
existence of jesus) into heaven.

Ah I see. Thanks. You've cleared it up nicely.


So your just buying into all those temptations that god has laid out for you.

What temptations? You name some temptations and I'll tell you if they tempt me or not.


It's not your fault you were probably just raised up that way.
Don't insult my parents you pathetic little worm.

I dont know why you would call me a little worm, I am probably bigger than you and could beat your ass with ease. And you know what, FUCK YOUR PARENTS.

Originally posted by Adam
Immortality.

Bingo! :cool:

Actually, when you say someone is wrong for not sharing your beliefs, that is awfully close to facism.

Define what an "open-minded" person is first mossfan125.

Is it someone that believes everything? Or is it one that considers everything?

You did not explicitly state, "they are wrong" - I just hope you aren't infering that, are you?

What temptations? You name some temptations and I'll tell you if they tempt me or not.

LOL, this will be fun...:D

The temptations I am referring to are those of the other false religions that have obviously failed the test of time. If you truly believe that christianity is a religion based on other religions ideas, well then I feel sorry for you. And what I mean by open minded is someone that considers everything and makes a reasonable judgement based on his or her opinions. And I am not saying they are wrong, Well I am, but that is just my opinion. And every person is entitled to their own opinion.

Originally posted by mossfan125
I dont know why you would call me a little worm, I am probably bigger than you and could beat your ass with ease. And you know what, FUCK YOUR PARENTS.

There's that nice christian attitude...

Originally posted by mossfan125
The temptations I am referring to are those of the other false religions that have obviously failed the test of time.
Like Buddhism? Yeah, that sure was a surprise when that vanished from the world... Idiot.

You didnt mention buddhism in your little history lesson you gave me earlier. you mentioned Mithraism, zoroastriniasm, and Akkadian. I didn't say anything about buddhism. You shouldn't make things up just because you dont have a reasonable arguement.

Originally posted by mossfan125
You didnt mention buddhism in your little history lesson you gave me earlier. you mentioned Mithraism, zoroastriniasm, and Akkadian. I didn't say anything about buddhism. You shouldn't make things up just because you dont have a reasonable arguement.
I made up Buddhism? You're an idiot.

Zoroastrianism is still practiced today. The Akkadian culture became the Palestinian culture, so is also still extant. And people still practice Mithraism, although now they call it christianity.

"I dont know why you would call me a little worm, I am probably bigger than you and could beat your ass with ease. And you know what, FUCK YOUR PARENTS."

You know, according to some deep bible-thumpers you've just sealed your deal to hell.


"The temptations I am referring to are those of the other false religions that have obviously failed the test of time"

What about the religions that have lasted longer than Christianity?

Well that would explain why your an athiest. The only ticket to hell is not accepting jesus christ as your saviour and I already have(accepted jesus as my saviour) so I have nothing to worry about.

mossfan,

...so I have nothing to worry aboutExcept that you might be wrong especially since 70% of the world's population are not Christian and believe something else. That should at least give you pause to think that as a minority, you could well be completely wrong.

You might also consider that the historical evidence for the bible (NT) is either near to zero or is actually zero. Your apparent unwavering belief in the bible tends to indicate you have not independently tried to verify the validity of the bible but have instead based your beliefs on what other believers have said.

Cris

So, as long as you say "I accept Jesus", you're allowed to be an insulting, rude, annoying, idiotic freak as much as you want, and you still get into heaven?

Everyone sins, so to answer your question yes I can. I can be as annoying as I want to whoever I want and still get in heaven because the lord forgives all. Thats where jesus comes in. He died for my sins so I can insult all that dont believe in him. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally posted by mossfan125
Everyone sins, so to answer your question yes I can. I can be as annoying as I want to whoever I want and still get in heaven because the lord forgives all. Thats where jesus comes in. He died for my sins so I can insult all that dont believe in him. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You are everything that is wrong with organised religion.

mossfan125

You see this folks? This is a troll. Yes, a troll.

Do not feed it. Let it starve to death. Thank you for your time and patience.

Although I must admire our necrophiliac little troll. He's found the only person who will ever love him unconditionally, in spite of his sins - and what's more, that person will never ever stop.

'Cuz they've been dead for 2000 years! They don't even have a say in the matter! Jesus loves mossfan125 because Jesus is mossfan125's own construct.

*Xev grins and then bursts into a sort of holy laughter*

Necrophilia rocks.

Yes, you're right. Mossfan125 is just someone being silly with us. Nobody could really be that stupid...

Hey, he is at least not talking about demon pizza......


yet.......

Besides, I like his approach to life. All humans desire to feel loved. mossfan125 controls this desire by making a 2000 year old dead dude be the one who loves him.

And unconditionally, no less! It's great! He's a genius! I mean, I could go on and on about how brilliant this son of a bitch is (vodka is truely a great thing). Think about it. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of man, of what man could be. And those of us who really think about such things realize what a tragedy this is, and those with true potential hate ourselves for it.

But we need to assuage this self-hatred. What better than to deify man! To create a messiah of mankind, an overman of sorts, a truely great human being, then to crucify him and - and here is where things get very brilliant -

HE FORGIVES YOU! All that you've done, all that you've failed to be, every potential that you've squandered, as corrupt as you have become - he forgives you for all of it and he loves you in spite of your sins against yourself, in spite of your sins against your potential.

Christians realize this, they just don't see that sin is not against GOD - God is dead! - sin is against man! More appropriatly, sin is against what man could be!

Fuck all, it's Xev's atheistic deification of man become Christian! The unthinkable! I've become a Christian! A Nietzschean Christian!

I'm also somewhat drunk. :p

Three southern fundamentalistic over muscly 'Christian' guys were waiting for me after the show.

*One of them pushes me*

"Hey!"

"We don't like what you said about Christians in there!"

"And you guys are Christians, true Christians?"

"We sure are!"

"Then stop pushing me and forgive me..."


- the great Bill Hicks.

Originally posted by Xev
Besides, I like his approach to life. All humans desire to feel loved. mossfan125 controls this desire by making a 2000 year old dead dude be the one who loves him.

And unconditionally, no less! It's great! He's a genius! I mean, I could go on and on about how brilliant this son of a bitch is (vodka is truely a great thing). Think about it. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of man, of what man could be. And those of us who really think about such things realize what a tragedy this is, and those with true potential hate ourselves for it.

But we need to assuage this self-hatred. What better than to deify man! To create a messiah of mankind, an overman of sorts, a truely great human being, then to crucify him and - and here is where things get very brilliant -

HE FORGIVES YOU! All that you've done, all that you've failed to be, every potential that you've squandered, as corrupt as you have become - he forgives you for all of it and he loves you in spite of your sins against yourself, in spite of your sins against your potential.

Christians realize this, they just don't see that sin is not against GOD - God is dead! - sin is against man! More appropriatly, sin is against what man could be!


There's an Australian movie in which the bad guy is all of the above... but for the life of me I can't remember what it's called. It wasn't very good anyway.

Why do some theists just make total idiots of themselves?

has anyone read the bible, asshole dies in the end, oop's sorry spoiled it for you.

*Originally posted by ~The_Chosen~
Why do some theists just make total idiots of themselves?*

We all started out as atheists, and some of us haven't been cleaned up yet.

Tony1, that's actually funny.

Originally posted by mossfan125
I dont know why you would call me a little worm, I am probably bigger than you and could beat your ass with ease. And you know what, FUCK YOUR PARENTS.

Well Moss,

There went your credability. Geez, and you were doing so well.

-Mike

Every fundamentalist will take of his mask eventualy.

They can't keep up this fake message that they are trying to help you.

They just feel better than everybody else and they want to spend some time among the doomed ones.

(that's us :D )

This has been a very interesting topic to read.

I have been forced to go to church for 16 years now. Although, I do not beleive in it, I know a good bit about the bible and the religion. Moss, obviously knows very little about both. The bible says that all men sin, but you are supposed to strive to be christ like, which calling someone an asswhole is something I doupt christ said, or maybe I missed that part sleeping last sunday? It also says you should repent of your sins when you do commit them.

Also, there are more steps to going to heaven then just accepting christ as the saviour. Have you read the bible Moss? Like, I said, I do not beleive in it, but its funny how all these people beleive in it so much, yet they cant even read the damn thing. They get all this wierd stuff like all you need is faith only. Only time fiath only is mentioned in the bible is in the phrase, "Not by faith only."


*BTW, Adam, do you have any recomendations of books about ancient religions?

Originally posted by Amphion
*BTW, Adam, do you have any recomendations of books about ancient religions?
Two interesting books:

Manners And Monuments Of Prehistoric Peoples by the Marquis De Nadaillac.

Religions Of Babylonia And Assyria by Theophilus Pinches.

These and other very interesting books can be found at: Project Guternberg (http://www.promo.net/pg/).

Here are some more good books about ancient religions:

Shamanism and the Rise of Ancient Sumer by Dr. Carlos Smythe-Binder

They That Sinned by Jacob LeFong Hoover


Ancient Religions by Harry P. Onan


Human Sacrifices: Funny Side Up by L. Slade Toltannus


The Burning Baugh by Marrion St. Hibbet


The Beards of Gods by Billy Jones

I dont know why you would call me a little worm, I am probably bigger than you and could beat your ass with ease. And you know what, FUCK YOUR PARENTS.




Ah those wonderful, kind, peaceloving christians. Nice to see that that turn the other cheek, love thy neighbor thing is working for you.