It has been suggested that men should bear the burden for avoiding false accusations of rape by avoiding any situation in which such an accusation might arise. Specifically:
I propose that men should also hold that burden. If you are afraid of someone pressing false charges then avoid situations where those charges could be made. Don't have sex on the first date, don't hook up, always get affirmative consent, never pressure someone for sex, and always, ALWAYS make sure the person is capable of giving full consent (not drunk, not on impairing drugs, not mentally impaired, and old enough legally).
So, let's make it a poll. How many men out there are prepared to follow thru on all of these recomendations?

not all of them but they are good guide lines and you should take them into accout.

I think this poll is muddied by the "sex on the first date" and "hooking up" comments.

The rest, I have no problem with.

A little common sense before everything goes to shit?

Never, never have sex with someone who's too intoxicated to be fully aware of what they're doing unless you know them intimately and trust each other implicitly.

In all other situations you, being suitably mature, mentally stable and of sound judgement*, will know whether prevailing conditions favour the onset of sexual intercourse. You'll know this from a look, a smile, a kiss. From there, things will develop naturally. There shouldn't be any element of force or coercion unless, again, it's based on considerable mutual trust and implicit agreement (a tricky area, best avoided by some) . If, once intercourse has begun, or at any time during the build-up, your partner tells you to stop: stop. There may be a problem that you're unaware of - eg your partner is in pain, or objects to the fact that you're attempting to rape her.

And that just about covers it. It's simple, it really is.

*NB: if this doesn't apply to you: seek alternative pastimes.

There is (or was) a proposal to make it law in the UK that a woman can claim rape if she had "too much to drink" up to a week after sleeping with someone on the grounds that she didn't know what she doing.
If that actually became law (apart from the blatant hypocrisy of the situation*) how would that affect the average "Saturday night out"?

In no other circumstance is being drunk an excuse in the eyes of the law.

* hypocritical because
it would be enshrined in law that women (only) are incapable of judging their alchohol intake
it would not be a valid excuse for the guy


PS Not too sure about the "don't have sex on the first date" though... it's pretty much par for the course (at least where I live). If you haven't tried to get her into bed five minutes after meeting then you're regarded (by her!) as potentially gay...

First date thing is hard. The rest is easy. I think when she's sucking your c@ck and saying, "F@ck me, you bastard," that equals affirmative consent.

Yeah, that's normally the point I let it get to before I make a move. By then I'm reasonably certain she's serious about me :D .

I would never turn down sex, I am a virgin and nearing my death because of it aka madness

I would never turn down sex, I am a virgin and nearing my death because of it aka madness

No one has ever died for lack of sex. And no one has ever been driven mad by the lack of sex, either. So quit worryin' about it.

In centuries of old, sailors would go out on ships and be gone, without any women, for years. What makes you so special? Prisoners have been incarcerated for 50 years or more without sex, and none of them have died because of a lack of sex. What's the big deal?

Baron Max

There is (or was) a proposal to make it law in the UK that a woman can claim rape if she had "too much to drink" up to a week after sleeping with someone on the grounds that she didn't know what she doing.
If that actually became law (apart from the blatant hypocrisy of the situation*) how would that affect the average "Saturday night out"?

I'd have to sue for mental damage after having sex with less than attractive women.

If that law is passed, I'm moving out of the UK. Not because I walk a fine line where rape's concerned, but because of the principle and possible implications in the future.

"I had too much to drink and didn't realise taking the car was ok."

"Oh, no problem. Shame about those kids you ploughed down though"

"Mmm, oh well. At least I didn't get raped!"

Well, cutting out Dragon Ball Z and such things might help in the losing virginity department.

I've said no to sex on a number of occasions. At least once with a fairly hot girl when I was single (though I slept with her years later), a number of times while I was dating another girl, a few times with the girl I was dating (exhaustion, intoxication, breaking up soon... all good reasons sometimes), just last night with a quite unnattractive girl as well as a few other times for that reason...

Also, I've stopped trying to pick up a girl because she was too drunk. In general, a trashed girl is very unnattractive in action anyway, so it stops being interesting. I even, shamefully, led a girl to the point of getting naked before stopping sex once. I'm embarrassed to admitt it, but she was just much less hot once naked and as well I have a long-standing crush on a friend of hers who I couldn't get out of my head. I felt wrong fucking that girl when I wanted her friend, so I bailed. Probably the only time in my life that I'll be the one who's a tease.

The first date and hookup ones are bullshit. It's hardly a rule that girls don't want to have sex on the first date, but the rest of those make sense.

You are all liers or just mad, I am single and not ugly, I've never had a girl show the lowest sign of interest or wanting to fuck :P

I no longer believe this!

I would never turn down sex, I am a virgin and nearing my death because of it aka madness

Dude, one plane ticket to nevada, one cab ride to the Moonlight Bunny Ranch and as little as 100 dollars later you will no longer be a virgin and all legally.

I think this poll is muddied by the "sex on the first date" and "hooking up" comments.

The rest, I have no problem with.
So you didn't vote the way you really feel? Those were the conditions set by Dora, not me.

Just couldn't stand to be on the same side of an issue as me, eh?
Dude, one plane ticket to nevada, one cab ride to the Moonlight Bunny Ranch and as little as 100 dollars later you will no longer be a virgin and all legally.That's what I've been saying. Piss or get off the pot, boy!

So you didn't vote the way you really feel? Those were the conditions set by Dora, not me.

Just couldn't stand to be on the same side of an issue as me, eh?

Actually, I had a quick read of the opening post, then immediately voted on the poll. Only then did I reconsider.

If I had a second chance, I would not have voted.

The first two are more ways of preventing false allegations of rape, the last three could, under certain circumstances, fall under the definition of rape. Again, I was not the person who CREATED the poll, my statement was a response to people talking about false allegations of rape.

there an easy way to deal with false rape claims if your going to have sex with a girl and think it might fall into a grey area were a false rape claim could be made don't have sex

there an easy way to deal with false rape claims if your going to have sex with a girl and think it might fall into a grey area were a false rape claim could be made don't have sex

Here, have some of these -

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,

Don't worry about using them all up. There's plenty more :)

I propose that men should also hold that burden. If you are afraid of someone pressing false charges then avoid situations where those charges could be made. Don't have sex on the first date, don't hook up, always get affirmative consent, never pressure someone for sex, and always, ALWAYS make sure the person is capable of giving full consent (not drunk, not on impairing drugs, not mentally impaired, and old enough legally).I voted yes in principle even though like others I disagree with a couple of the specific terms. Sex on the first date and "hooking up" are a matter of judgment. As for drunkenness, many people of both sexes get a little plastered to loosen up on purpose, once again you have to use judgment. Best if you're not also plastered of course.

I once refused sex with a girl just because she wouldn't let me use a condom. This was way before HIV but also before abortion was legal. I just didn't want her to get pregnant for several very good reasons.I would never turn down sex, I am a virgin and nearing my death because of it aka madness.Oh for the goddess's sake dude. Will you please take $504 out of your huge pile of unused money, spend the four bucks on condoms, and use the rest to hire yourself a really stunning, expert call girl who will spend some time with you and do a patient, professional job of initiating you into your sexuality? I don't generally recommend this to guys but at your age you need it. It will change your life.

Your life is run by inertia. You complain about how you have no future but you refuse to go to college. You complain about how dull things are but you still live with your parents. You complain about not being popular with the ladies but the first thing many of them notice about you is that you drive a frelling minivan. You complain about not getting any sex but you won't go out and do what 99.999 percent of guys throughout history have done under those circumstances.You are all liers or just mad, I am single and not ugly, I've never had a girl show the lowest sign of interest or wanting to fuck.You talk like you're twelve years old dude. You don't understand life or women. You simply have got to get away from your parents and enroll in a university while you're still barely young enough to assimilate into a normal lifestyle for a young man. If you wait until you're 30 you won't be able to pull it off.

Your life. Your choice. But you're not going to get any results by whining about it on the internet.

LOL, veterans on this board should all chip in, so that darky can afford a callgirl. :)

If he's really that desperate he can go work at a morgue.....:p

Yes I know I have a problem.....

No. If I had to turn down sex, I can safely assume I'm not the only one making the moves here.

Though I do make a point of never sleeping with someone who
a) would call it rape for whatever reasons
b) would drink herself so stupid she didn't know what was happening, or couldn't remember anything afterwards.

if a woman cant trust herself when she is drunk, maybe she shouldent get drunk then. if she is just going to sleep with men because she is drunk maybe alcohol is too strong for her weak mind.

i dont take drugs or touch alcohol neither does my wife.


peace.

if a woman cant trust herself when she is drunk, maybe she shouldent get drunk then.

It's usually more the case that she can't trust men.

if she is just going to sleep with men because she is drunk maybe alcohol is too strong for her weak mind.

Agreed. If she wasn't so drunk that she was unable to give consent to sex, then she is responsible for the consequences of her own voluntary act. But if she was too drunk to know what she was doing, we have a whole different ball game.

It's usually more the case that she can't trust men.



Agreed. If she wasn't so drunk that she was unable to give consent to sex, then she is responsible for the consequences of her own voluntary act. But if she was too drunk to know what she was doing, we have a whole different ball game.


if she suspects that some people might take advantage of her when she is too drunk, then she should keep her witts about her and not get that wasted.

i think men should not take advantage of drunken women, in my opinion it is very sleazy to do something like that, but i also think that to be on the safe side men and women alike should not get so drunk that they cant understand whats going on around them.


peace.

But if she was too drunk to know what she was doing, we have a whole different ball game.
I've always wondered what exactly people mean when they talk about being "too drunk to know what they were doing." If the person was "doing" anything, they were probably aware that they were doing it. Are we talking about actually being passed out drunk? Or is there some alleged state of drunkenness in which a person is still conscious and able to actively participate in sex, yet is somehow unaware of what they are doing? It's not as if taking off your shirt and moaning "F***k me..." is some sort of autonomic brain function that can occur without a deliberate effort on one's part.

ppl use ohhhh they were drunk as an excuse. I don't drink......very rarely or smoke.
I have seen women get drunk and act like idiots I think its very unattractive and trashy, esp if they have a cigarette hanging out of their mouth too.

I'll say it once...

is it REALLY possible for a woman to rape a man? I mean... if she does, the man MUST have wanted it in some way as it got him hard enough to be raped!

Christ... is it that hard?

In more conserative words...

Men, it is up to us to not commit the act. We are the one who has to have a bodily response so sex can even occur. Hormones are hard bitches to ignore, but you know what, you can.

I'm 19... my g/f is 17, will be 18 on christmas. Two years now we tease and flirt and play around, but we don't have sex... not only is it immoral to have sex yet but it's stupid. There are so many factors that COULD go wrong that WOULD ruin our lives. Not to even MENTION that she is still a minor...

If someone were to be so drunk they were illogical... I wouldn't have sex with them. First off, it'd probably suck. Second of all, why would you do that? Are you THAT desparate? Here's a porno movie and some lube, there's the door to the back room.

*shrugs*

Then again...

http://www.rapestop.net/faq/index.asp

Yeah... do you really want to risk THAT?

If someone were to be so drunk they were illogical... I wouldn't have sex with them. First off, it'd probably suck. Second of all, why would you do that? Are you THAT desparate? Here's a porno movie and some lube, there's the door to the back room.

*shrugs*
I've had some fabulous wild, kinky sex in which both myself and my partner were drunk. You assume a lot about drunk sex for someone who has apparently never tried it. ;)

I'll say it once...

is it REALLY possible for a woman to rape a man? I mean... if she does, the man MUST have wanted it in some way as it got him hard enough to be raped!

Christ... is it that hard?

Either that's tongue in cheek or you don't really understand male physiology.
By the same token don't you also think that if a women gets wet she MUST have wanted it.;)

ppl use ohhhh they were drunk as an excuse.
It's become an acceptable excuse, no idea why, short of passing out people still know what they're doing, they may act differently but they're still perfectly aware.

...is it REALLY possible for a woman to rape a man? I mean... if she does, the man MUST have wanted it in some way as it got him hard enough to be raped! Christ... is it that hard?

Hmm, I don't know, but ...what about pschological rape? I.e., the man might not want to have sex with her, but if she's attractive to him, and she comes on strong, he might not have the "immediate" will to resist. Was it rape? Well, how many women yell "Rape" after-the-fact? And isn't that the same thing?

Baron Max

Maybe because alcohol intake reduces inhibitions?

It's become an acceptable excuse, no idea why, short of passing out people still know what they're doing, they may act differently but they're still perfectly aware.

Hmm, no, I don't think so. People aren't necessarily "perfectly aware" when under the influence of drugs or alcohol. I had a chance with a woman once who was drunk, but not falling down type drunk. We agreed to go to her apartment. We played on the sofa, drank some more, removed our clothes, played some more, ...then right at the point of entry, she started to cry. Duh?

She "wanted to", but she knew that she shouldn't. She was using the alcohol to bolster her courage ....then it all failed at the last moment.

No, I didn't rape her. Yes, we became friends. Yes, we talked about it. Yes, she admitted to wanting to, but didn't have the courage to go thru with it.

Would it have been rape if I'd continued? Yes. But would she have called the cops? Probably not. But it would have been rape ...make no mistake about it. And, unfortunately, that's one of the effects of alcohol ...the loss of good sense!

Baron Max

It has been suggested that men should bear the burden for avoiding false accusations of rape by avoiding any situation in which such an accusation might arise. Specifically:

...

So, let's make it a poll. How many men out there are prepared to follow thru on all of these recomendations?

What the hell is wrong with having sex on the first date? As long as all the other conditions apply, then I don't see any problem with first date sex! :bugeye:

Maybe because alcohol intake reduces inhibitions?

It changes what you would or wouldn't do for sure, but what it doesn't change is your awareness of doing it and (apart from physically)ability to stop it or want to stop it.
You might not sleep with someone when you're sober but do it when you're drunk, but you still wanted it when you were drunk and it's therefore not rape. That's the point where I disagree with it being an acceptable excuse, in fact I find it lame and pathetic, someone may be drunk but if they still want the sex then that's their own fault, it's a mistake, one you wouldn't normally make but a mistake all the same, nothing more, and people should have the guts to own up to making those, it's normal to do so.

Max -
Hmm, no, I don't think so. People aren't necessarily "perfectly aware" when under the influence of drugs or alcohol. I had a chance with a woman once who was drunk, but not falling down type drunk. We agreed to go to her apartment. We played on the sofa, drank some more, removed our clothes, played some more, ...then right at the point of entry, she started to cry. Duh?
Except she was perfectly aware of what she was doing otherwise she wouldn't have realised the mistake and stopped it.

She "wanted to", but she knew that she shouldn't. She was using the alcohol to bolster her courage ....then it all failed at the last moment.
Sure, that's exactly what most people use alcohol for.:)
No, I didn't rape her. Yes, we became friends. Yes, we talked about it. Yes, she admitted to wanting to, but didn't have the courage to go thru with it.
Would it have been rape if I'd continued? Yes. But would she have called the cops? Probably not. But it would have been rape ...make no mistake about it. And, unfortunately, that's one of the effects of alcohol ...the loss of good sense!

Baron Max
If you'd have continued after she changed her mind then yes I'd agree it's rape, otherwise it isn't, if she still wanted to then it isn't rape it's just a drunken mistake, call a spade a spade. Unfortunately as far as I'm aware law doesn't see it this way which I think is incredibly stupid. It's well known that alcohol lowers standards and makes people more open and confident, but is that really an excuse? People knowing this still drink, I think they have to accept what comes with that without crying wolf, if someone doesn't like what it may make them WANT to do then don't drink.

Does anyone here believe that a person shouldn't be responsible for their actions if they get in their car and hit someone while driving drunk? If you think that a person is responsible for their actions while drunk with respect to driving, why would you think that they're suddenly not responsible for their actions if they consent to sex? Because they wouldn't have done it had they been sober? Surely most drunks who hit people with their car would not have run anyone over had they been sober. So...what's the difference?

Does anyone here believe that a person shouldn't be responsible for their actions if they get in their car and hit someone while driving drunk? If you think that a person is responsible for their actions while drunk with respect to driving, why would you think that they're suddenly not responsible for their actions if they consent to sex? Because they wouldn't have done it had they been sober? Surely most drunks who hit people with their car would not have run anyone over had they been sober. So...what's the difference?

That's the most logical and analytical argument I've heard anywhere on the forums lately. Good work Nasor, you're perfectly correct in this assertion. There is no difference, the only thing here is that it's a woman, and she's got a sweetness about her that men like. If it was a man there'd also be no issue, if he was drunk and later regretted it calling it rape there'd never, ever, be any charges.