Most every evangelical Christian views homosexuality as being a sin. Why? Because Christians believe (based on Scriptural recognition and mandates) that ANY sexual relations outside of the 'marriage between one man and one woman' is sexually immoral, sinful activity. The activities that are specifically addressed in the Bible include; unmarried heterosexuality, out-side-of marriage heterosexuality, homosexuality, and beastiality. **I'll note that beastiality is considered an extremely rare occurance in comparison to the others (at least here in the U.S.).

Unfortunately, since modern Christianity seems to have focused its attention primarily on homosexuality (in part due to the AIDS crisis), the remaining types of sexual immorality have in standing lost their equality with it. Subsequently (and inadvertantly) the message being sent is that, "my being involved in 'these other types of sexual immorality' must not be AS sinful and therefore I'm not AS bad (as the homosexual) for being involved in it." NOT SO says the Bible, as NO differentiation as to the degree of sin is made between them. However, the Bible DOES say that sexual sin is the 'worst' of all varieties (although very forgiveable), because the involved person is sinning against his/her own body.

Having said that, I'll now say that it bothers me a great deal, to see the obvious exhibit of 'hatred of homosexuals' that has been generated amongst professing Christians! If Jesus were here today, He'd be doing some serious rebuking and chastising of those Christians whom are ridiculously calling for the segregation (or imprisonment) of homosexuals with AIDS; or of those (Christians) that condone (by lack of speaking-out against) the increasing violence perpetrated against professed homosexuals.

Christians MUST realize that HATRED IS A SIN, and also that the ANGER that most often accompanies hatred is equally as sinful. CHRISTIANS MUST also realize that NO ONE is exempt from the temptations of any type of sin, and therefore need to guard diligently against their own sinful desires and nature. SATAN loves nothing more than to attack a Christian man or woman with the very same temptations of sin, that he or she feels most strongly about! Let's face it, because of our inherrent human nature, we all 'have and will' struggle with the temptations of sexual sin. And, by acknowledging this, we Christians should be extremely 'temperate' with those whom have succumb to their own sexual temptations, especially those who do not claim to follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ the way we're 'supposed' to be doing.

Love your neighbor (including the sexually immoral) as God has so loved you; unconditionally, with compassion and understanding. Share the gift of extending grace to those whom are in sin; the same way God has so mercifully done with you. And lastly, remember the following words of the Apostle Paul and abide in them always:

"Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievences you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues, put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity." Colossians 3:12-14

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus Christ

Ok, there are VERY FEW Christians at this forum. I'm one, but I'm a liberal Christian, the exact opposite of you, DoJ. If you want to talk to Christians feel free to use the following sites:

www.christianforums.com
www.faithforum.org/community and www.faithforum.org/challenge
www.crosswalk.com (look around for a little bit and you will find their forums area).

At Christian Forums moderator theBear is a little fed up with the unusually high number of homosexuality threads, but if you make it sound original he won't have a problem with it. Please go there for discussion among Christians. This is a good place for debate with atheists, but you won't find a religous fellowship here.

Hello Again nPA -

I do appreciate your informing me of that; however, you need to understand that my messages are NOT "usually" written to the non-Christian (including Atheist) visitors to this message board. I am aware, that there are professing Christian individuals whom frequent this forum and I've also noticed that their posts are far to often lacking in the exhibition of true Christian virtues. My attempts are to correct their errant (written) behavior by admonishing them with the truths as found in the Bible. I've read a couple threads here regarding the topic of homosexuality and I must say that I was extremely saddend by the hate-filled, Biblically ignorant posts that were left by "supposed" Christians! This thread was began to clarify what Christians 'should' be thinking regarding the topic, with hopes of watering down some of the 'militant' attitude that as always, seems so prevelant.

Once again, thanks for the information.

~ Disciple of Jesus Christ

Why don't you inform the masses of Christians (or Christians who really are not :rolleyes: ) at the sites I gave you instead of maybe two or three here (at the most). I'm not telling you to leave, just that your mission can be carried out in other areas. Of course you could already be a member of at least one of those sites, for all I know.

My point is still that there are VERY FEW Christians here.

Is there a certain person here who claims to be Christian but is "lacking in the exhibition of true" Christianity that you wish to convert to your version of Christianity? If so, just say it.

what bugs me about this forum, is that it is run by athiests. tell me....where are they're loyalties going to lie when running interference in a querelous thread? that's why i rarely bother posting in this forum, even though i would like to. i think in order to make things fair and square, they need to have one athiest mod and one christian mod. or, would that be asking for too much? everytime i read a mod's posting on any given thread, it's always tinged with anti-religious overtones, whether they realize it or not.

"i think in order to make things fair and square, they need to have one athiest mod and one christian mod"

Why? Does a persons religion change their ability to judge what is insulting or useless? Have you seen any edits or closed threads that you disagree with on a religious basis?

Furthermore, why Christian? Because you're Christian? We certainly don't have an overwhelming number of Christians at the forum.


"everytime i read a mod's posting on any given thread, it's always tinged with anti-religious overtones, whether they realize it or not."

May I see some of this? Can you quote anything?

Does a persons religion change their ability to judge what is insulting or useless

yes. and so does the lack of it[religion] ...people are prone to bias...in case you hadn't noticed.

to get back on topic

i dont think god would make a group of people (5% of the population i belive) "evil" vertully from birth (preference is determined WAY before pubity) so the bible is just wrong

Good grief asguard use some SPELLING or GRAMMAR or both...

Pumpkin, apparently you missed the part where I asked you to show a bias being done by the mods. So I ask again; any proof? Any what so ever?

The number is actually closer to 10% asguard, though most homophobic conservative Christians will tell you it's actually 2% based on how many fags checked the "I’m a fag, and I want the government to know" box on a recent (US) census.

Also, I think this thread is just fine. Let DoJ speak his mind on this issue, even if for no other reason to put on the record, the fact that he doesn't agree with those who are viciously opposed to homosexuals.

I don't think having a Christian moderator would help things, if you think an atheistic moderator is 'biased' throwing a 'good Christian' moderator in here would definitely not help in that respect.

Originally posted by notPresidentAndrew
Is there a certain person here who claims to be Christian but is "lacking in the exhibition of true" Christianity that you wish to convert to your version of Christianity? If so, just say it.

Hello notPA -

No...there's no one person in particular and my goal is NOT to convert anyone to my or any other "version" of Christianity. As was the case with me or any true-Christian for that matter..."conversion" happens when someone makes the 'personal' decision to give Lordship of their life to Jesus Christ, and no longer conforms and subscribes to the "patterns (or ways) of the world" (which denotes a life that is lacking Jesus as Lord and Savior).

I don't know if you've experienced this conversion of not, you've not said so and it's really none of my business to know. In any case, take what you want from my messages or nothing at all...that's your decision and whatever it be is fine with me. Also, if you've anything to share with me I'll be more than happy to read it and if you'd like...reply to it as well.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

are people born as homosexuals, or is that a choice they make or is it a matter of environment? cause thats gonna make a huge impact on how christians consider them!

DoJ, if homosexuality is not 'right' because of the sexual sin, what happens if the government allows homosexuals to marry? will that make it ok? or is there more reasons for christians to view it as 'wrong'?

(I"m still trying to figure out where I stand on this issue)

Originally posted by New Life
are people born as homosexuals, or is that a choice they make or is it a matter of environment? cause thats gonna make a huge impact on how christians consider them!

DoJ, if homosexuality is not 'right' because of the sexual sin, what happens if the government allows homosexuals to marry? will that make it ok? or is there more reasons for christians to view it as 'wrong'?

(I"m still trying to figure out where I stand on this issue)

Greetings New Life -

Tough question...and one that has been hotly debated for quite some time now. From a purely secular standpoint, I would like to believe that homosexuals are born as 'homosexuals'. However, for every scientific finding there is to support that theory, there is yet another to discredit it.

My belief is; that each and every one of us is born inherently heterosexual, with the possibility of there being a genetic pre-disposition in some people that could later encourage a 'sexual-attraction' preference. I believe the same theory applies to other apsects of our behavior as well. A pre-disposition to violent behavior, substance abuse, and sexual promiscuity; just to name of few. But how (and when) does each and every one of us make the decision as to what we will incorporate into what becomes our defined behavioral disposition? Inevitabley, it comes down to what we observe and learn (mostly as children and adolescents), otherwise known as conditioning, for which there are both social and psychological factors involved. The last factor is 'response/ outcome' (both perceived and real). This is recognized when the behaviors we learn, incorporate and practice are judged (and then either rewarded or punished) by our peers, subordinates and by those in authority over us, based on societal norms. We then consider whether or not the 'response' to or 'outcome' of our behavior had served us in a positive or negative manner. Subsequently, there is a virtual equation one can use when detemining behavioral outcomes: gentics+conditioning+response/outcome = behavioral disposition.

Now, for the practicing Christian we add yet another factor to the equation; that being "a God honoring & accepted level of morality." This means to us (the Christian), that regardless of how our (genetics+ conditioning+response/outcome) encourage us to behave, we are to temper and adjust our morals and behaviors based on what the Word of God (the Bible) teaches. Through the conviction it brings, this is one purpose of our being indwelled by the Holy Spirit (or Counselor).

As for whether or not the government's approval of "same-sex marriages" would make it "ok"; no it wouldn't, not according to the Bible. Christians are to live as citizens of Heaven first, (seen as simply holding VISA's in their respective countries) and the Word of Almighty God (including His laws) reign supreme over that of any nation's.

In summary, I'll say that ANY behavior (sexual or otherwise) can be modified and controlled. It simply depends on what is important and whether or not an individual deems their specific behavior as being appropriate or inappropriate. We all could use a claim of 'genetic pre-disposition' in attempt to justify most of our behaviors, but it wouldn't hold a lot of water since we also all have the ability to consciously make personal change in ourselves; in both our thoughts and actions. This is especially true for Christians. Both the Old and New Testements of the Bible contain numerous passages warning of the consequence of sexual-sin. As always, it is our decision to either abide or not abide with these mandates of us.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

umm....i imagine the idealized christian version of homosexuality would be the
priest/choirboy model. i could be wrong on this so please refrain from quoting
me!

thanks
sincerely
spook

:)

this is a lil off topic... but what about homosexual couples wanting to adopt children? im not sure where i stand on this but i've been raised by no parents and i've turned out kinda alright..

Originally posted by spookz
umm....i imagine the idealized christian version of homosexuality would be the
priest/choirboy model. i could be wrong on this so please refrain from quoting
me!

thanks
sincerely
spook

:)

Greetings spookz -

No...that's an ENTIRELY different topic. Please dont equate Catholicism (pseudo-Christianity) with Christianity, since they too (in following the lead of their heretical Pope) could care less what the Bible teaches.

In His name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

Originally posted by sycoindian
this is a lil off topic... but what about homosexual couples wanting to adopt children? im not sure where i stand on this but i've been raised by no parents and i've turned out kinda alright..

Greetings sycoindian -

I would say that in my opinion and from a Christian point of view, this is not (nor should it be) an acceptable practice. But, rarely in this world are things done anymore based on what has long been accepted as moral, righteous or just. We live in an "anything goes" society (that started with the sexual revolution) and only when it's too late, and after many lives have been damaged or for that matter, ruined...will society wake up and recognize something as being harmful or derogatory. To me, homosexual adoption (with it's potential ramaifications) is yet another example of mans sinful nature bringing potential harm upon the innocent...in this case the adopted child.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

oh dear lord forgive me for my mistake

disciple

in following the lead of their heretical Pope) could care less what the Bible teaches.

what heresies does the pope subscribe to? i always thought god speaks thru him

To me, homosexual adoption (with it's potential ramaifications) is yet another example of mans sinful nature bringing potential harm upon the innocent...in this case the adopted child.

syco got lucky and was raised by wolves.

thanks
sincerely
spook

DOJ....

hmmmmmmm... okkkkk.. what is so great about a heterosexual couple raisin a child vs a homosexual couple raisin an adopted child? ok.. to make this a lil more even.. hetero couple raisin an adopted child vs a homosexual couple raisin an adopted child... either scenario... unless your answers for both are different...

---But, rarely in this world are things done anymore based on what has long been accepted as moral, righteous or just. We live in an "anything goes" society (that started with the sexual revolution) and only when it's too late, and after many lives have been damaged or for that matter, ruined...will society wake up and recognize something as being harmful or derogatory.----

the way i see it... an existin system has to be broken down in order for a new system to arise.. and a system can't break down unless it creeps to the edge of the cliff and finally takes a flight off the edge into the abyss...

i dont have a problem with homosexuality... ppl are free to practise watevahh they want... to label it as 'wrong' or 'evil' is a very heavy assertion... this practise is quite prevalent in the animal world... all this has already been covered in this thread by other posters..

you will always find rebels no matter what... there is no system where everyone follows the law stringently... i find that when ppl are subjected to follow something with half assed explanations, they are bound to venture out to see what the hell they're missing... i've heard a whole buncha arguments about why homosexuality is not good and all that.... there are various reasons from a religious perspective... one of em is that the act of sex should be conducted to produce an offspring... and in homosexuality, that is not the case... but what about tons of ppl having sex for fun? even in married couples... if there was no contraception, we'd be livin in designated cubic squares... no one just has sex so they can have kids... most animals have a mating season when the females are in heat... humans dont... sorry, i know there is a point to all this..ehehe.. yeahh.. so if sex is just for producin children, everyone is at fault.. hetero or homo couples... all of em...

i've also heard that homosexuality isn't good from a hygienic perspective... any scientific studies on that?

---syco got lucky and was raised by wolves. ----

spookz....yeah... im tarzan... ehehehhe... :D

Interesting......

DoJ,

can you point out some specific scripture to support your position?

Originally posted by New Life
Interesting......

DoJ,

can you point out some specific scripture to support your position?


Hello Again New Life -

This link provides a very inclusive listing of any Scripture that relates to sexual sin. As for the corresponding interpretation, I think it's pretty good as well.

http://members.aol.com/joe4jesus/sexsin.htm

Hope this helps answer your question.

~ Disciple of Jesus