Now its time to pick a team - the CALGARY FLAMES or the TAMPA LIGHTNING. Make your pick and dress up your avatar with their logo. We must battle wussification...err..wessification and avatarification!

(I recommended flamsifying yourselves.)

Just a few more minutes and I will be chaos again, just you wait.
BTW your avatar is much cooler than wes and avatar. :D

I will gladly fly the Flames logo if you can tell me where to get it and insert it as my avatar - I'm tech. inept. :(

Don't like neither team...so avatar it stays

Load the url: http://www.sciforums.com/avatars/avatar4099_1.gif in the avatar section of the cpanel cpanel. Or, google it: ;)

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=calgary+flames&btnG=Search

PS..is this wes? (WARNING: partial nudity)
http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/2001/01/06/streaker5.jpg

:D

There. I've made my choice...... For now.

Nice :) And the flames win 4-1.

(78.5% of teams who win the first game in the stanley cup final go on to win the series.)

phui to both teams.

Ahhh yes... I've been waiting patiently here in Leaf land for 15 years for this; I'm in Calgary on Friday, hopefully catching game Saturday.
Oh, Flames win the Cup in 5 by the way.

PS: They get to keep it for 2 years... no hockey next year. :-)

Although im a coyotes fan, im going with tampa bay in 6 or if the flames are lucky they'll take it to 7 games and if they are very lucky they might just win.

I have flamified myself. I cheer for Toronto, but since they are out:

GO FLAMES GO

woooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Flames lead series 2-1. Calgary owned the 2nd and 3rd periods. Only two wins needed now to win the cup :)

I would've liked to see toronto/calgary more, but this is a damn exciting series.

I posted something similar elsewhere....

Tonight Calgary looked like the best team I ever seen; speed, teamwork, passion, offense, goaltending.........they were un-stop-able.

They're re-inventing the game - gone are the days when people believed 'the trap' clutch and grab defensive style is the only way to win games. Fuq that, Calgary plays a 'balls to the wall' style game that's wide open and very entertaining, not to mention extremely effective.

If you're the gambling type put your money on Calgary to win the cup, it's a sure thing.

I'm going to get flamed (no pun intended) for this, but I think next year will provide some clarity. The Flames are this year's Mighty Ducks.

Let me clarify. The Flames are a very good team, but most importantly, have peaked at the right time, just like the Ducks did. I don't think you will see the Flames make the finals again for many years. I don't think they will do a complete u-turn and miss the playoffs (like the Ducks), however.

Every single year, there are a few goalies who seem to come out of nowhere and totally DOMINATE. Last year, it was Giguere. Before that, it was Theodore. This year it's Kiprusoff, and he's given an outstanding performance....but wait until next year, mark my words. How often have we seen a goalie get promoted as the "next big thing", only to have him virtually disappear the following season?

As for the team, they are a young, physical, fast group of guys. They have an incredible will to win, which has carried them more than their goalie or any other factor. But once you win (or even go far), try to get that motivation again. It's extremely difficult.

My hat's off to the Flames, the Lighting and their respective coaches. I was crushed to have my beloved Red Wings beaten by the Flames, but they flat-out beat us; no excuses. I just don't think this is the emergence of a new powerhouse; but a group of young and talented players who are well-coached and MOTIVATED.

Just my opinion; maybe I'll eat crow next year (if there IS a next year...sigh).

Don't worry, I won't flame you, but I have to disagree :)

There are so many differences between the flames and the ducks thats to compare the two is ridiculous. First, if you remember 2 seasons ago, the flames were sitting a top the league. Then...instantly, a goalie will had just signed with a no trade clause, for 4 years, at about 4 million dollars a year, began to suck...I mean, completely suck. He gave up after doing so well at the beginning of the season, and the players in front of him gave up too because they knew their goalie wouldn't give a second effort if they made a single mistake. So no matter how solid the team was out in front of the net, it didn't matter. They lost confidence. Two bad goals make you loose games that you should win, and they all add up to no playoffs.

Look back a few years earlier to the 2000 season. We had another goaltending crises, and lost one of our best players, theo fleury. The flames brought up giguere, and braithwaite who were both amazing at the time. The trouble was that we had so many goalies, one of them had to leave. So like the sharks, we dumped a very promising goalie, knowing full well that he'd be a solid no. 1 someday.

Next thing you know, we have a new GM. He puts martin st louis on waivers (which disgusted me at the time, he was a clone of theo,) he aquired turek, the lazy oaf, conroy, mcAmmond, yelle, gelinas. Even more depth then before, but you wouldn't know it with stalin in net.

The two things the flames didn't have, the things to give them confidence were a solid goalie, and an identity. Sutter brought both of those things. Besides the 4 goalies on the farm team, who were almost ripe for the NHL (saborin, krahn, szuper, and phaneuf --who will be a no 1 himself someday..) he brought in kiprussof to back macllenan. Meanwhile, we had a 4 million dollar goalie play backup on our farm team. Kiprussof did amazingly well, before getting injured before the stretch. Maclllenan played with a broken sturnum and turek kept his maclennans seat warm before coming alive out of jeolousy in the few remaining games before the playoffs. Turek played just as had before calgary signed him 2 and a half years earlier.

If kiprussof had been healthy the entire season, calgary could've easily placed 2nd or 3rd in the conference. Thatss is the main difference between calgary and anaheim. Anaheim had giguere backing them for the majority of the season, while calgary was lucky if theirr #1 goalie didn't collapse of pulmonary adema.

The next biggest difference was the identity which anaheim didn't have...you see, anaheim isn't a exactly a hockey crazy city. Not like Edmonton for example were the players will bust their backs just to make the doorstep of the playoffs. All for their beloved fans. No, they enjoy the warm sun and the beach, which aren't exactly bad things oustide of hockey.

The last main difference is that the flames were playing do-or-die hockey. If they failed to make the playoffs again, chances are real good that they'd move to portland or houston. Sutter, unlike babcock, cared. The ducks won't move until hollywood does, and the team means a lot more to this city. He demanded excellence from every single player and understands the concept of on ice chemistry. This makes a huge difference in factoring in the future.

Basically, as long as calgary has a decent goaltender, they will continue to do well, far into the future. The 'rebuilding' process took more than 7 years, but the flames are now brimming with talent and promise. I'm not saying they'll get this far next year, but if the world cup player selections are any indication, the flames have a solid group of guys who I'm predicting will do even better in the regular season. The one thing I worry about is that the flames will become the 'team to beat,' but thats a good thing.

anyways,

[!-- end rant --]

You make some good points, but really I think we're closer to agreement than previously thought.

Calgary is a good team. I would imagine they will be in the top 5 teams of the Western Conference next year....but you doubt they will return to the finals next year and so do I (and beyond). Sutter deserves all the credit in the world, too. I wish Detroit had a coach with as much character!

I DON'T think they will collapse like the Ducks did. But just like the Ducks, this is as good as they will ever play, and I doubt it will get this good again for a long time.

I haven't checked stats, so correct me if I'm wrong...but the other similarity to me is that both teams won in the playoffs by scoring timely goals (but very few) while giving up almost NOTHING. Obviously, a team can win this way, but only for a short time. It is not a realistic system for long-term success. As soon as one facet of their system falters, the whole thing collapses. Right now, everyone has gelled and they're playing to perfection.

The Ducks deserve what they got, though. They snubbed some of the character guys that got them to the finals and sunk their future into Fedorov...whose motivation is sub-par. After Fedorov snubbed us, I can't help but smile at the thought of he and the Ducks missing the playoffs!

Sorry, I'm not trying to belittle your team. They deserve the Stanley Cup, as does the Lightning, and it's good to see Canada being represented in the finals. Good luck. :)

By the way, would you guys be interested in Shanahan or Hull? Devereaux? Maybe Hatcher? Okay, thanks anyway. :rolleyes:

Right.

I don't expect the finals for calgary next year, or any team for that matter. the playoffs are too damn unpredictable..but I will say that anything's possible and I won't shy away from fantasies of back to back stanley cups ;)...*(if calgary does win this one).

Winning is about getting the right goals at the right time. I admit if we didn't get that first one in OT, detroit may well be in calgaries place. Maybe Vancouver. But its not luck. Its the statistical advantage of playing with grit.

You're probably right saying that they've peaked, but theres no way to know for sure. Just speculation. Other things I'm predicting include:

-end of avalanche dynasty in the west
-end of detroit dynasty(everybody pretty much agrees)
-emergence of minnesota, nashville, calgary, edmonton and montreal (its going to get much better for canadian teams)
-lockout only lasts a short time



Any predictions for tonights game?

I think it will be a close game tonight, the puck drops in 45 minutes!!

nope, 15-20, + delays!! :)

Right.

I don't expect the finals for calgary next year, or any team for that matter. the playoffs are too damn unpredictable..but I will say that anything's possible and I won't shy away from fantasies of back to back stanley cups ;)...*(if calgary does win this one).

Winning is about getting the right goals at the right time. I admit if we didn't get that first one in OT, detroit may well be in calgaries place. Maybe Vancouver. But its not luck. Its the statistical advantage of playing with grit.

You're probably right saying that they've peaked, but theres no way to know for sure. Just speculation. Other things I'm predicting include:

-end of avalanche dynasty in the west
-end of detroit dynasty(everybody pretty much agrees)
-emergence of minnesota, nashville, calgary, edmonton and montreal (its going to get much better for canadian teams)
-lockout only lasts a short time



Any predictions for tonights game?

The Avalanche weren't quite a dynasty, but as long as they've got Lacroix as GM, they'll be competitive - the terrible, terrible Drury/Yelle trade aside.

Right.

I don't expect the finals for calgary next year, or any team for that matter. the playoffs are too damn unpredictable..but I will say that anything's possible and I won't shy away from fantasies of back to back stanley cups ;)...*(if calgary does win this one).

Winning is about getting the right goals at the right time. I admit if we didn't get that first one in OT, detroit may well be in calgaries place. Maybe Vancouver. But its not luck. Its the statistical advantage of playing with grit.

You're probably right saying that they've peaked, but theres no way to know for sure. Just speculation. Other things I'm predicting include:

-end of avalanche dynasty in the west
-end of detroit dynasty(everybody pretty much agrees)
-emergence of minnesota, nashville, calgary, edmonton and montreal (its going to get much better for canadian teams)
-lockout only lasts a short time



Any predictions for tonights game?

I agree with all of your predictions....but to be more specific concerning the Colorado / Detroit dynasty thing, I think the "dynasty era" is kind of done for awhile unless hockey changes, regardless of what team we're talking about.

That said, Detroit will be very good for years to come. I love our young guys, and Lang is going to be great for us. If Cujo wants to play another year, I'm all for it...simply because he was our best player in the playoffs, after everyone (including me) doubted him. But beyond that, I have confidence in Legacy as a solid #1.

We need to dump some older players for sure, and I'm pretty confident that will happen. I think it's safe to assume Lewis will be gone, too.

I didn't get a chance to predict tonights game, it was over when I read your message....but I would have picked Tampa Bay 1-0. You believe me, don't you? :cool:

It's going 7 games....good luck.

personally, I'm cheering for the puck. Will he be remembered?

I bet he goes home to his puck children and wife with nothing and ends up in an "equipment bar" yelling at people, screaming that HE was REALLY the deciding factor of the game.

BTW - is there a puck union yet?

Im curious about who people think should be MVP, in my opinion whichever way things go richards is the one.

If Calgary wins, it's got be Iginla. If it's Tampa, I'd go with Richards, maybe Khaibulin if he goes lights out the next two games.

I think even if calgary wins it should be richards, unless iginla does something special in the last few games, khabibulin and kiprusoff are up there aswel and with another couple shut outs are strong contenders, but 7 game winning goals is something special, im not sure tampa would be in the final without him, it'd be nice if he collected it even if he was on the losing team like giguere did last year, but lets hope the bulin wall doesnt crumble in game 7 and the bolts win.

wooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!! Flames lead series 3-2. What an amazing game...

My grad banquet is on saturday, only a few blocks from the saddledome, DURING game #6. We'll have at least one big screen TV, and if the flames win its gonna be one huge orgie. I'm bringing 2 disposable cameras :)

Any recommendations on what I should do that night?

bring condoms and riot gear, that should cover everything.

if the flames win its gonna be one huge orgie
Damn, bet you was dissappointed.

Hell ya

Everything was prepared according to buffys' recommendations, and they came so damn close. It shouldn't have even gone to overtime...

keep your fingers crossed for monday night....

keep your fingers crossed for monday night....
Yeh i wanna see richards get MVP and the bolts win(im the only one it seems), would be very good for the franchise.

Fantastic, Some great saves from the goalies and the bolts win it, richards gets the deserved mvp and dave andreychuk is very happy, now we just have to wait for the next one....

um... yes i so know what your all talking about

It doesnt matter anymore its all over.

Tampa played well. Good for them.

I still think Calgary was screwed..but its over now. Next season will be better.

Fuck, all I can say is FUCK.

They got really screwed because they scored that goal at home.

My condolences to the Flames fans....they were incredible right up until the last game. I have to say, though....for those who think they got screwed....it wasn't a goal. Sorry.

Both teams deserved that cup; it's a shame that someone had to lose.

I'll be interested to see how long you keep your avatar ILikeSalt.

I have to admit even I joined the flames bandwagon and I don't give a shit about hockey (it was a gut "canadian" response) so I won't hassel you when you change it, the whole concept of "fans" is just interesting to me.

It reminds me, a little bit, of politics.

After seeing the replays i think inconclusive was the right decision, though i havnt seen it from a decent camara angle(the one above the goal is best for it), it is inconclusive from the ones i've seen, besides, the flames got the bad call in game 7 where their goal came from so maybe they shoulda took their chance, but they played well.

I wil keep the avatar until I get over the loss. I may be in denial. I have to go through the stages of mourninjg first :), I am looking for a new avatar already.

I think that just because they lost doesn't mean that i should stop sporting their colours, it was a good series and I think they got screwed with the penalties and the Kerry Frasier Conspiracy (the Leafs fans know what I'm talking about).

What about Jarome Iginla disappearing in Game 7, despite the NHL's best efforts to mold him as Tiger Woods on ice?

The Flames were outplayed for the majority of game 7. That's the reason they lost. If I had to swallow my pride as a Red Wing fan, Flames fans should have to do the same. Just like the Red Wings...they lost, and they're the only ones to blame for it. Sorry!

Yeh look on the bright side, at least your teams made the playoffs.

swallow my pride, or swallow gary betmans..err

Thats a lot like proud muslim saying the jews have no right to complain about the holocaust because some palestians were displaced by the creation of israel. Utterly stupid. unconnected, uninformed

In any case, I don't want this to become a discussion of hockey politics. The flames may have been outplayed by tampa for the majority of game 7, but they schooled tampa games 1,3,4,5,6, game 2 a draw, and were the clear victors from an athletic perspective. Bad reffing, good timing, and a nice geographical location in the easy-east won them something that a lot of teams deserve; not just calgary. If tampa had to face vancouver, I'm sure they would've been finished in 5 at most. It was vancouver, with the likes of nasuland & auld that was a much worthier opponent...the flames simply ran out of steam when they had to drive the stake deep into heart. They missed out by inches, literally a few times earlier, and fell to their knees from exhaustion and indignity. Rigging the two most important games of the season is no way to treat a hockey club.

The whole stanley cup thing didn't turn out as expected, but I'm a born-again hockey fan.

*whats that now?!*-- I think I hear Bettman flying in on his broom......


ILikeSalt,

Who was that reff -- the one who was about to retire, but was refused game 7? The one who both teams agreed, split games right down the middle?

If that doesn't scream consipracy, I don't know what does. I hope he comes out with the truth, or whatever he knows. A guy who's been in the NHL deserves to reff game 7 of the cup.

swallow my pride, or swallow gary betmans..err

Thats a lot like proud muslim saying the jews have no right to complain about the holocaust because some palestians were displaced by the creation of israel. Utterly stupid. unconnected, uninformed

What?

Dude, you take sports WAY too seriously.

No, just professional sports. I've never seen amatuer athletes treated like commodities. and thats what its about in the NHL nowadays- money. Bettman would've done anything to avoid an all-canadian series because he doesn't make TV money. As a fan of the game, I'm insulted.

For some people, its not an entertainment industry, but a way of life. Iginla, gelinas and all those guys truly deserved to win it, and I would've loved to see them succeed, but they lost off the greed of some dickhead in NY. The league is playing the fans for fools.. let me just say that Thatcher would make a better commissioner. :rolleyes:

we're talking about hockey for christ's sake! People might throw billions of dollars at it but it's still just a game. Ping-pong, baseball, bowling or "donkey kong", it's ultimately the same thing.

swallow my pride, or swallow gary betmans..err

Thats a lot like proud muslim saying the jews have no right to complain about the holocaust because some palestians were displaced by the creation of israel. Utterly stupid. unconnected, uninformed

I'm hardly unconnected or uninformed about hockey, and the analogy you made is ridiculous. All I was saying is that you shouldn't make excuses...your team lost, and it was their fault. It would be like me whining that Detroit would have beaten Calgary if they weren't getting mugged, clutched and grabbed...but we lost because Calgary was the better team.

In any case, I don't want this to become a discussion of hockey politics.

It's a little late for that after you imply that you were "cheated" out of the cup.

The flames may have been outplayed by tampa for the majority of game 7, but they schooled tampa games 1,3,4,5,6, game 2 a draw, and were the clear victors from an athletic perspective.

That's subjective, but so what if they were the clear victors from an athletic perspective? The team that wins is the one who puts the most pucks in the net....whether it's by luck, grit, skill, brains or whatever. You want me to say that Detroit were the clear victors from a skill perspective? Or an experience perspective? So what!

Bad reffing, good timing, and a nice geographical location in the easy-east won them something that a lot of teams deserve; not just calgary. If tampa had to face vancouver, I'm sure they would've been finished in 5 at most.

Yeah, the East is easy. :rolleyes: You think Calgary would have beaten Ottawa, Philadelphia or Toronto? I don't....eh, maybe Ottawa. And as for the "good timing" thing, Calgary is a better example of good timing. You'll see what I mean next year, if there is one.

It was vancouver, with the likes of nasuland & auld that was a much worthier opponent...the flames simply ran out of steam when they had to drive the stake deep into heart. They missed out by inches, literally a few times earlier, and fell to their knees from exhaustion and indignity. Rigging the two most important games of the season is no way to treat a hockey club.

Rigging the games? Wow....this is getting juicier by the moment. Do you think the Trilateral Commission or the Freemasons were involved? Don King?

The whole stanley cup thing didn't turn out as expected, but I'm a born-again hockey fan.

Welcome....I'm hooked as well. Your team had an unbelievable run, with as much will to win as I've ever seen. As you said, they just came up a bit short. I would have liked to have seen Iginla hoist the cup, but I'm also happy for Andreychuk and Tampa. It was the best finals series in years, let's not tarnish it.

holy shit, I can't believe how seriously you guys take this.

IT... IS... A... GAME!

Get over it already.

All I was saying is that you shouldn't make excuses...your team lost, and it was their fault.

This is where we disagree. Calgary lost because of shit reffing & bias. They gave it 100% when it *should* have counted, but they were snuffed. By the time that was over, the flames were depleted. not beaten.

It's a little late for that after you imply that you were "cheated" out of the cup.

I had to say my peace after waiting 8 weeks, but if you really want to argue, be my guest. :) It may be enough to cancel my therapy sessions.

The team that wins is the one who puts the most pucks in the net....whether it's by luck, grit, skill, brains or whatever.

whatever=rigging?

You're right. Tampa won, but not the right way.

Yeah, the East is easy. You think Calgary would have beaten Ottawa, Philadelphia or Toronto?

Philly-> Kind of like Vancouver, but not as good. I give calgary 75% chance of winning.
Toronto-> weak defense, sporadic offense. They're dead
Ottawa-> Can't put it in when it counts. If belfour can shut them out, I see no reason why kipper cant.

Nothing is 100%, but I'm surprised they're still considered the underdog.

Rigging the games? Wow....this is getting juicier by the moment. Do you think the Trilateral Commission or the Freemasons were involved? Don King?

Freemasons-- hahaha. Amateurs. It was Bettman and his Reptiloid posse of anime watching douche bags.

Welcome....I'm hooked as well. Your team had an unbelievable run, with as much will to win as I've ever seen. As you said, they just came up a bit short. I would have liked to have seen Iginla hoist the cup, but I'm also happy for Andreychuk and Tampa. It was the best finals series in years, let's not tarnish it.

My animosity is not towards the Tampa Bay Lightning, but the league. I'm happy for the individual players, especially stillman, dingman and st. louis, but the people they were playing for are EVIL. EVIL!!

Who was that reff -- the one who was about to retire, but was refused game 7? The one who both teams agreed, split games right down the middle?

Yeah, the reffing was crap at times. Kerry Frasier is not worthy of being a referee. ABout ten years ago, he should have penalised Wayne Gretzky, instead he let it go, then Wayne scored, it ruined Toronto's shot at the cup. He always has favoured American teams any time I watch a gome that he refs. He will ref well for the first period, then he does ridiculous stuff in the third.

Don Cherry hinted that they will try to fix games.

Oh, I forget the name of that ref, anyone is better that Kerry Frasier.

In the last game tampa got penalised with a rediculous call, yeh the refs arnt great, but it does even itself out because you will get calls going for you aswel as against you, its like any game, and yeh it does piss you off if it happens when it matters most but theres no such thing as perfect refs, and calgary could have turned round game 7 after that crap call that lead to the powerplay they scored off, they just didnt put it in after that, anyone could see that was their chance and they blew it.

Xerxes and Salt - to repeat ... you think the league wouldn't have been happy with the opportunity for its first black superstar?

Xerxes and Salt - to repeat ... you think the league wouldn't have been happy with the opportunity for its first black superstar?

Or that a Canadian team winning the cup wouldn't be better for the game? Especially with the financial struggles that Canadian NHL teams are dealing with? Or that the completion of the Calgary "cinderella story" wouldn't have been good for the game, bringing in new fans, etc?

Nah, poor Calgary. Little did they know that no matter what they did, the league was conspiring to keep them from being champions. :rolleyes: The game we watched was an illusion; Tampa Bay didn't really outplay the Flames in game 7, when it counted the most...

Reminds me of the black knight scene in Monty Python's "Quest for the Holy Grail"....you know, after the Black Knight has his arms and legs cut off, he still claims victory?

"The Black Knight ALWAYS triumphs!" Yeah, right.





Whiners.