Have you ever made a film or participated in its making?
Please tell of your experience.

Several amateur films never meant for distribution. I've played parts in skits for a public broadcasting show that some friends of mine hosted every other week. I have also had the chance to be the cameraman for a few situations, usually involving my nephews. The important thing is to keep the camera steady and filming. Editing can take care of excessive lengths or unwanted images. Nothing professional though, nor will filmmaking ever be for me.

Never shot film but over 1000 hours broadcast DVCAM\DVCPRO\HD - pro sports, documentaries -many of them...etc. and sooooo many bands and music videos. Docs and music stuff was the cool but film is totally different .

Local bands or global ones? And what documentaries have you filmed?

Jesus man. why would i lie?

BROADCAST - TV - HD

Jesus man, who said you're lying!?!?!

So:

Local bands or global ones?
And... what documentaries have you filmed?

PS I have no idea what BROADCAST - TV - HD means. Would that be your American public access channels then?

Broadcast, Television, high definition. HD was that last year, i dont shoot anymore. I said i shot documentaries professionally and the same for sports (baseball for broadcast) music videos for known and unknown as well as bands. but i cant go talking about it - NDA.

Broadcast, Television, high definition. HD was that last year, i dont shoot anymore. I said i shot documentaries professionally and the same for sports (baseball for broadcast) music videos for known and unknown as well as bands. but i cant go talking about it - NDA.

pron docus?

Nuclear Decommissioning Authority? I'm kidding. Just give us the basic themes and I'll clear that with the copyright owners.

I am an artist, i never once shot pron docus? that crap is an abomination to my craft.

I guess he want stories, like meeting DeNiro...I cant discuss that but to me it was all just looking through a lens and making sure everything was perfect. Big bucks involoved to chock and takes precision.

Oh, and editing too...i can cut on anything.:D

Actually John I just want to know what your documentaries were about!?? Its quite simple really!

I am an artist, i never once shot pron docus?

clever...that question mark. It makes it seem like you deny it, but technically you don't.

YOU put that here.

I am an artist, i never once shot pron docus? that crap is an abomination to my craft.

I guess he want stories, like meeting DeNiro...I cant discuss that but to me it was all just looking through a lens and making sure everything was perfect. Big bucks involoved to chock and takes precision.

Oh, and editing too...i can cut on anything.:D

what do you usually cut on, what's your preferred package?

My most recent films have been about building the new stadium in town and an african band.
Still trying to break into pron.

YOU put that here.

Actually he didn't. Freudian slip?

I once tried my hand at video production but became disinterested when I started adding up the numbers that I needed to make money as to how mush I had to spend in rentals of everything to make any type of high quality production. It just didn't show me that I could make more than I was spending then trying to sell what I produced was going to be a nightmare for only a few TV companies were in the business of paying for stuff that I was trying to set up. I was going to produce game shows that I had invented and were really great for there times. Matter of fact there are a few of them that I came up with now being shown on TV. I was just to far ahead of my time and I didn't have and "connections".

what do you usually cut on, what's your preferred package?

Avid, Leitch and finally FCP. I sat in on thousands of edit ssessions but i was mostly a camera operator.

Actually he didn't. Freudian slip?

I never did "PRON":mad: I just copied that from post #8.

I sat on thousands of chairs but I was mostly a babysitter.

Broadcast, Television, high definition. HD was that last year, i dont shoot anymore.

So, the documentaries were about broadcast, television, and high definition? What were the highlights?

I once tried my hand at video production but became disinterested when I started adding up the numbers that I needed to make money as to how mush I had to spend in rentals of everything to make any type of high quality production. It just didn't show me that I could make more than I was spending then trying to sell what I produced was going to be a nightmare for only a few TV companies were in the business of paying for stuff that I was trying to set up. I was going to produce game shows that I had invented and were really great for there times. Matter of fact there are a few of them that I came up with now being shown on TV. I was just to far ahead of my time and I didn't have and "connections".

Interesting. :) I want to create psychological/surreal short films after I finish my master studies at the uni next Summer,
however I terribly lack any practice and experience, so I need to make a few test very-short films before that. :D

try to get involved with some local pornmakers. They have loads of experience and know how to get an unpredictable shot.

Unpredictable like a bitch farting, yes?

Interesting. :) I want to create psychological/surreal short films after I finish my master studies at the uni next Summer,
however I terribly lack any practice and experience, so I need to make a few test very-short films before that. :D

Lighting, talent and script are three essentials you'll need to just strart off with. Rememberr that a good camera operator is worth their pay so if you don't catch on to doing your own camera work then always hire a professional for they make you look great. That goes for all aspects of a production.

I intend to learn myself. :)

Actually I've scheduled a test shoot this wednesday, part 2 on saturday.
I have two imo great scripts ready, but I don't want to waste them on learning, so I'll try something simple and sacrifacable.

It takes time to understand ALL aspects of filmaking and you're learning them where you attend school I hope. I went to classes to get the understanding of the whole picture and it is more than you think. I studied allot but found that renting is the way to go and trying to get others to work for free is another. No matter what you do I hope you the best of luck in making it as well as selling it afterwards.

No, I'm studying something completely different. :D
I've read a few books on cinematography though, but of course that's no replacement for practice.
I intend to film with my friends who want to join the experience for free.

Thank you for your well wishes, I appreciate! :)

p.s. I believe that art should be available for free (art belongs to the people and all that) so I intend to release everything we make for free on the internet and distribute it using cd-net (as we call it over here). I have my main job to feed and clothe me.

I believe that art should be available for free (art belongs to the people and all that) so I intend to release everything we make for free on the internet and distribute it using cd-net (as we call it over here). I have my main job to feed and clothe me.

I agree but in todays world it takes allot of money to make decent films. That's why I suggested that you rent VIDEO equipment, it costs less and gives you more flexibility in post production.

So, the documentaries were about broadcast, television, and high definition? What were the highlights?

I dont want to get into the paericulars but i shot profesionally, suffice it to say some of you probably seen my work- if you live in U.S, Europe and probable SA, that is prettty cool. I wont be posting my resume here though. For Avats purposes i mostly was camera operator, also lighting specialist, sound, on-camera interview. AND of i trained quite a few top professionals how to edit.

No, I'm studying something completely different. :D
I've read a few books on cinematography though, but of course that's no replacement for practice.
I intend to film with my friends who want to join the experience for free.

Thank you for your well wishes, I appreciate! :)

p.s. I believe that art should be available for free (art belongs to the people and all that) so I intend to release everything we make for free on the internet and distribute it using cd-net (as we call it over here). I have my main job to feed and clothe me.

First of all YOU are NOT hungry, right there tells any pro that this project will suck wind.

This is not looking good at all. Do you have any idea what it costs to process film? Like CosmicTraveler said, for anything watchable, aside from junk, you need a real good camera, lighting??? your just gonna waste a lot of film i can tell already. I would go so far as to say UNuseable. The camera's i used (over 1,000 hours) cost as much as a Ferrari, so i know what i'm talking about. RENT or find someone willing to shoot it for you, and of course any pro knows that lighting and sound are just as important. Talent? Most people are useless in front of a camera, for many reasons- if you can pull this off it will be a miracle.

Well, good luck:)

I wrote a screenplay.
It's unlikely it will ever be filmed, however.

This is not looking good at all. Do you have any idea what it costs to process film?
I was talking 24fps hdv on miniDV tapes :D , need only a computer.

Well, good luck
Thanks

I agree but in todays world it takes allot of money to make decent films. That's why I suggested that you rent VIDEO equipment, it costs less and gives you more flexibility in post production.

A LOT less than in the past though.
I'm a big fan of films by Maya Deren, and they didn't take much money to produce.

I wrote a screenplay.
It's unlikely it will ever be filmed, however.

Is it true that every american that can write has written a screenplay or will do so eventually?

Is it true that every american that can write has written a screenplay or will do so eventually?

Only the most egotistical ones will! ;)

I couldn't write one. I am lousy at dialogue. It would have to be a silent movie.

Or pron.

I couldn't write one. I am lousy at dialogue. It would have to be a silent movie.

Or pron.

What's PRON?

Porno. It was used as pron to fool internet chat filters, etc., but now it's mostly just a bit geekier way to say porno.

But honestly, if you want to get experience in filmmaking getting involved in porno would be a good option. They are one of the few genres that make a profit, are made on a low budget, and have accumulated a vast knowledge base on how to shoot low budget movies that look 'decent'.

But honestly, if you want to get experience in filmmaking getting involved in porno would be a good option. They are one of the few genres that make a profit, are made on a low budget, and have accumulated a vast knowledge base on how to shoot low budget movies that look 'decent'.

Yes, that's what the public needs to have a better understanding of just what the filmaker is trying to show us about their "visions" in filmaking. Just get everyone nakked and have at it, that's real art today! NOT!

oh, are we making art?

Then you will never be profitable.

oh, are we making art?

Then you will never be profitable.
Not my intention.

Does the Latvian government stimulate art? In Finland there are possibilities to apply for grants that stimulate Finnish culture, heritage, and science. They usually don't give that much money, a bit on the minimum side, but application procedures are not terribly complicated, only demanding a plan consisting of a few pages.

There is the Culture Capital Fund, a state institution under the Ministry of Culture which supports artists in th way you described.
First I want to create something watchable though. :)

HDV is horrible.

It's better than DV and we all can't afford a Ferrari, especially in the 3rd worldish country I live in. ;)
Oh, and honestly I don't think it matters that much, compression for the internet would kill the film any way.

yeah, stick with HDV. It should be good enough.

The Blair witch project made millions of bucks and wasn't shot on the fanciest cameras.

You always have to keep in mind purpose.

Remember also the Duellists, by Ridley Scott? probably not, since it's not his most famous film. He managed to obtain special cameras that were very light sensitive (and they were very expensive). He thus managed to shoot indoor scenes at candlelight giving them a special atmosphere. An atmosphere that would add the the feeling of the era.

Similarly the blair witch was going for the amateur feeling. Hence 'rented' cameras.

Well you said film, in U.S everyone knows you are not making a film.

for the internet would kill the film any way.

So why would you use HDV? that would be a big mistake, stick with DV it is easier to edit, the audio is much better too.

or

Just use the Panasonic AG-HVX200?

http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/cat_camcorders.asp

True high definition image quality with low-compression DVCPRO HD intraframe recording

• Multiple formats: DVCPRO HD, DVCPRO 50, DVCPRO, DV selectable

• High definition recording formats: 1080/60i, 1080/24p, 1080/24pA, 1080/30p, 720p (variable frame rates)

For internet i would try to just record direct to a laptop.

Can you rent these cameras where you are, get alot of P2 card:.

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/pr/PR_HVX200CreativeCowJan2007.pdf

I'd love to learn how to shoot in 16mm film.

Isnt it possible to shoot in film and then edit in digital?

In Marlon Brandos autobiography he says the best way to make an independent film is to make it in Mexico, where labour is dirt cheap and theres still lots of great architecture and natural scenery.

Well you said film, in U.S everyone knows you are not making a film.
huh? ok. lost in translation then. in Latvian it's "to film" whatever format you use
So why would you use HDV?
to future proof,
and hdv compressed back to dv still looks a lot better than an original dv
the audio is much better too
I don't intend to record master audio on hdv tape any way, but a seperate recorder

huh? ok. lost in translation then. in Latvian it's "to film" whatever format you use

to future proof,
and hdv compressed back to dv still looks a lot better than an original dv

I don't intend to record master audio on hdv tape any way, but a seperate recorder

I dont think HDV will have a long lifetime at all. Obviously without knowing what your final output will be it is hard to say. Assuming web only distribution then HDV is not worth the hassle, plus it has a small user base. Cant do frame accurate cuts, cant record fast motion all that well, DV 48K audio is better, DV type cameras are better for recording low light too. For web video you can go pretty cheap as far as camera.

To record the audio to seperate recorder is not a good idea, Robert Rodriguez did it for the classic 'once upon a time in mexico' but his camera captured only images. Use a camera with XLR and use wireless- Sony, Sennheiser, audio technica mics., with booms or lavs.

To record the audio to seperate recorder is not a good idea,
Check this out:
http://www.syncsoundcinema.com/2007/06/fifteen-drops-tabletten-ten.html
http://www.syncsoundcinema.com/2007/06/fifteen-drops-tabletten-ten_24.html

I understand the temptation to go directly into camera: it gives the impression of saving time on set by not making it completely necessary to slate each shot, you don't have to spend time in post syncing each shot before you even begin to cut, and the audio always lives with video, so no having only one and losing the other. But doing so involves major quality compromises.

Cameras are by definition image-capturing devices, and while the audio sections have improved by leaps and bounds over the past few years, they still pale in comparison to a dedicated audio capture device, with 24 bit uncompressed PCM recording capability. Some may argue that 24 bit isn't necessary, given that most systems can't reproduce 144 dB dynamic range, and they may be right. But the fact is, everything you record out in the field is going to go through at least some sort of shake'n'bake in post, and having the (theoretically) lower noise floor and head room concurrent with greater bit depth allows for a cleaner signal after the fact, especially when summing multiple tracks.

And, in more practical terms, going double system means one fewer cable tethered to the camera, one fewer set of switches to be accidentally bumped to the wrong setting, and allows the person responsible for the audio recording to actually control and directly monitor the audio recorder. What a concept, eh?

Besides I already have a camera and it is with XLR inputs.

---------
From today's filming practice

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1396/1475824223_ce05051dfa.jpg

Well your all set. I have used that canon camera, a friend loaned it to me to test but that is the extent of my personal experience shooting HDV-mpeg2. Guess you found out the on-camera mic's on ALL those handheld cameras are not very good-they clip etc., it does have a real good lens.

So lets see with that camera you can shoot, HDV- 4:2:0 color space and 16:9 with mpeg2 video and mpeg audio stream or DV- 4:1:1, 16:9 and red book audio-Uncompressed 48khz.;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(audio_CD_standard)

The only way to know for sure is upload a sample of both with the compression you are planning to use.

Yes, on-camera mics suck. I bought Rode NTG-2 shotgun mic and am very satisfied with it.
I seriously need to buy a laptop with firewire port so I can upload video in the field, because I make a lot of mistakes at this point due to my lack of experience and it would really save time to find out those mistakes when I'm filming, not when I'm already home.

I would use the LCD as much as possible, the viewfinders in handheld cameras are color (b&w is much better) the LCD seems to be the way to go- but i know people who can do amazing stuff with handheld cameras.

The biggest mistake is probably overexposing- just go 1\2 to full f-stop below what auto iris tells you and shut off the zebra bars- they will mess you up.

Thanks for the advice!
I can manually set on my cam at what level zebra bars start flashing. I can also switch the viewfinder to b&w mode, but why is b&w better?

Thanks for the advice!
I can manually set on my cam at what level zebra bars start flashing. I can also switch the viewfinder to b&w mode, but why is b&w better?

The truth is getting real good is experience and some natural ability, that being said: With the VF your main concern is exposure and composition so the color is just a distraction, enen still i think most of the time people use the LCD's w\ thjat kind of camera. The zebra bars you can set to a percentage but i leave them off and dont worry about exposure because i know what i am getting or i use a waveform.

i ahvent worked on a film but my husband worked on the film "time bandits" with sean connery!

I'd love to learn how to shoot in 16mm film.

Isnt it possible to shoot in film and then edit in digital?


Yes.
My wife's cousin, Tyrone Davies, shoots almost everything in 8mm or 16mm.
You can search Google for his name to see some of his work.
I think it is very impressive stuff.

My first attempt at anything: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oqD-DKu-co
It's just a practice video, the first I've ever tried, no rehearsals or anything.
I already see my mistakes and have written them down in order not to repeat them in the future.
Actual practice is a great way to improve. :)

Obviously you know what the problem is with the first scene, aside from that you should have just let her exit the fram then cut to her running down the alley because your pan is not smooth anyway.

I think the audio is way too loud.

One real bad cut.

when the woman stands up her head is out of the frame, you have her from the shoulders down, personally i have never seen a good shot where the subjects head is cut off. you should have used a different angle.

I think you will see that if you used HDV (which explains all the hard cuts:D) you gained nothing, it could be hdv because the compression is noticeable in hte dark scenes, looks to be from raw footage.

Personally i am no fan of films with no dialogue or ambient sound, unless it is some artsy stuff that no one even really notices or a music video. I guess you will add it.

Obviously you know what the problem is with the first scene,
Yeah.
I think the audio is way too loud.
Me too, I only noticed it after rendering and was too lazy to fix. :D
when the woman stands up her head is out of the frame, you have her from the shoulders down, personally i have never seen a good shot where the subjects head is cut off. you should have used a different angle.
I see no problem with it, because the attention is not on the woman, her head isn't important.
I think you will see that if you used HDV (which explains all the hard cuts) you gained nothing, it could be hdv because the compression is noticeable in hte dark scenes, looks to be from raw footage.
Can you please explain this in other words? :confused:
I used hard cuts because I didn't think transition effects [fade in/fade out, etc) to be important in this little practice video.
Personally i am no fan of films with no dialogue or ambient sound, unless it is some artsy stuff that no one even really notices or a music video. I guess you will add it.
Not really, I intend to make short films with no or almost no dialogue. From a psychological point of view language limits the message, besides I don't intend my eventual audience to be mostly English or any other one language speaking or reading.
There was no message in this video though, because it was just thrown together to have an excuse for practice.
i am no fan of films with no dialogue or ambient sound,
I am. :)

I see no problem with it, because the attention is not on the woman, her head isn't important.

Can you please explain this in other words? :confused:
I used hard cuts because I didn't think transition effects [fade in/fade out, etc) to be important in this little practice video.

Not really, I intend to make short films with no or almost no dialogue. From a psychological point of view language limits the message, besides I don't intend my eventual audience to be mostly English or any other one language speaking or reading.
There was no message in this video though, because it was just thrown together to have an excuse for practice.

I am. :)

cutting a persons head off...i dont know, i dont think i've ever seen that done in a film.

it is just practice but what does it take 10 seconds to put a fade in\fade out? and have you tried transitions with HDV? i think you may have problems but i am not sure. I am interested to find out because i never worked with HDV, you have to consider 15 frame GOPs.

Whatever floats your boat.:)

Yes, I have tried transition effects with hdv for a birthday video I made for a friend.
There is a slight problem, because they are quite fast by the default and the basic transitions look almost instant, but if you increase their lenght in time, then they are fine.

Flashy and complicated transitions are ok by the default, because you can't miss them, but I don't like them. Imo, they are good only for commercials.

Try shooting a film with a long continuous shot. No editing. All timed perfectly.

I like this 7h long film: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111341/
Sometimes there are about 15minutes between cuts.

Sorry, it was not too loud after all, problem with my sound card.

OT: Last night i was watching 'The Tell-tale Heart' on DVD (paid $1 for it) and at the best part it locks up and gives an error - bad disk.