I've been watching some tv lately and noticed a lot of shit on the way people dress - celebrities and the such. Of course my instant reaction was "fashion is stupid!"

Then every single person who was interviewed (except P. Diddy - a man I respect so fucking much, brilliant fucking businessman) said "it's a way to express myself", "I like making my own clothes because it's a way to express myself", "I won't let stylists dress me because clothing is one way I express myself".

Two questions I have:
Isn't the point of clothing to be comfortable and keep you warm?

Who are these people that need to express themselves to every one? How fucking egotistical is it "I want everyone to know who I am!! Everyone needs to see what I'm like, cause I'm so special!" ??

You know what, it's not egotistical - it's just needy and sad. I'll take one schoolmate as an example "I don't care what people think of me, I just want my clothing to express who I am as a person".

Express it to who? You know who you are, eh? So then you want to express it to other people? So then you care what other people think of you? Yeah.

Expressing myself isn’t all that important.
I wear clothes for comfort, and to get what I want from particular situation.

For example:
If I need to look poor when I visit the welfare office, I dress up in tattered clothes.

If I need to sneak into a gated community, I dress up as a pizza man.

If I need to get something from negotiating with the white man, I put on blue eye contacts.

If I need to perform, I wear something that increases my visibility.

Since I am in America, I usually abide by American clothing standards.

If I am in a meeting that requires business attire, I humor them by wearing as suit and tie.

If I am required to sneak around at night, I wear all black.

The best thing you can do to stay out of trouble is to dress up in clothes that make you look like an innocent respectable citizen.

I don't see any point in dressing in outfits that reflect your cultural heritage. If you’re in a culture, just wear whatever is there as long as it’s comfortable. Why should you have to abide by some cultural heritage? Sometimes wearing something from a different culture can hold you back. Think about what you want, how you are going to get it, and what you need to wear in order to increase your possibilities of succeeding in your mission.


My car is riddled with American flags and bumper stickers that promote the support of police and state troopers.
Does it look good? No.
Do I really give a shit about America and it’s pigs? No.
Will it decrease my chances of getting pulled over or getting in trouble? Hell yes.

Isn't the point of clothing to be comfortable and keep you warm?

No. Clothing denotes status, allegience and implied reproductive fitness.
I wear heels (or I don't, because they fucking hurt) to force myself to walk in a way that makes my hips sway - implies that I have wide hips and a wide birth canal. I wear jeans and a Bathory band shirt because - well, it's fucking comfortable - and with my casual clothing I convey that I'm not one who places an over-emphasis on image or being as I am supposed to be.
Before any idiot whines at me "but this is because pop-culture is so materialistic and shallow", I note that this is the way things have always been. People have been using clothing this way since the paleolithic. Is culture image?

Who are these people that need to express themselves to every one? How fucking egotistical is it "I want everyone to know who I am!! Everyone needs to see what I'm like, cause I'm so special!" ??

Most people aren't anything at all, so they need to express what they want to be through their clothing.

If you don't know what you are (and most people don't) you need other people to tell you. Sometimes you try to influence what they'll tell you - through clothes in this case.

I wear clothes for comfort, and to get what I want from particular situation.

This I agree with. My day-to-day attire is jeans/khakis/cords and a blank t-shirt (I found a store with decent, completely blank single colour shirt, so I bought three blacks, two greys and two whites - it's generally all I wear). And I have a few sweaters, most of which I've gotten free. Hm, I guess I'm kind of breaking my own general use by getting a leather jacket for hannucka this year, but it's really really comfortable! Though, still worth more money than all my other clothes combined.

But yeah, in a business meeting I'd wear a suit because it's what will get me what I want. As long as someone can admit that, I couldn't give two shits what they wear.



No. Clothing denotes status, allegience and implied reproductive fitness

I'm gonna hate myself but this is going to make me repeat what I think is a pretty common arguement. I really, really hate the "anti-Britney", against-the-establishment, pseudo-alt dress codes that exist. Of course your mohawk makes you different than the main stream. But you're no less a conformist than anyone else - you're just conforming to another group's standards. It all pertains to punks, metalheads, neo-hippies and "the indie crowd" just as much as it does to thirteen year old girls listening to pop.


Most people aren't anything at all, so they need to express what they want to be through their clothing

One of the points I was trying to make. Why are people not content with just 'being'? I'm not getting all pissy about people wanting an image - it's people who try to justify their wanting an image by saying "I'm being myself and expressing who I am" as if that's any more righteous than "I want people to think of me a certain way".


If you don't know what you are (and most people don't) you need other people to tell you. Sometimes you try to influence what they'll tell you - through clothes in this case.

Well said.

Tyler:
I'm gonna hate myself but this is going to make me repeat what I think is a pretty common arguement. I really, really hate the "anti-Britney", against-the-establishment, pseudo-alt dress codes that exist. Of course your mohawk makes you different than the main stream. But you're no less a conformist than anyone else - you're just conforming to another group's standards.

I agree, but it doesn't change my point - humans don't dress strictly for comfort and they never have.

Even your vehement insistance on wearing comfortable clothing signifies something. You may not be trying to signify something, but you are proclaiming allegiance to your non-conformism just surely as my shirt conveys my allegience to Bathory.

It all pertains to punks, metalheads, neo-hippies and "the indie crowd" just as much as it does to thirteen year old girls listening to pop

What I dislike are the hipster types who squeal loudly about how they "don't wear clothing to fit in"

Bullshit. Any true nonconformist wears clothing designed to help them fit in.

One of the points I was trying to make. Why are people not content with just 'being'?

Because they aren't

I'm not getting all pissy about people wanting an image - it's people who try to justify their wanting an image by saying "I'm being myself and expressing who I am" as if that's any more righteous than "I want people to think of me a certain way".

Agreed.

I agree, but it doesn't change my point - humans don't dress strictly for comfort and they never have.

No, you're right. No one dresses purely for comfort. If I found the most comfortable thing possible and it made me look like a complete moron, I probably wouldn't wear it. Why? Because I still like to get laid. But, I can admitt that that is a factor.


Even your vehement insistance on wearing comfortable clothing signifies something. You may not be trying to signify something, but you are proclaiming allegiance to your non-conformism just surely as my shirt conveys my allegience to Bathory.

I really don't want to be a "non-conformist" though. I know conform in many ways. I don't walk around naked in the summer - so I conform to certain norms. I'm just a whiney bitch when it comes to eighteen year old dumbasses who spend twenty minutes plus on their hair and clothing in the morning to look the exact same as everyone else in their little clique and then call themselves "non-conformists" and better than the rest. As far as I'm concerned, if you're putting a single ounce of thought into what you wear (including purchasing of clothing), you're probably conforming to something. And I include myself in this. It's the last part - being righteous - that pisses me off.


Bullshit. Any true nonconformist wears clothing designed to help them fit in.

I don't think I've ever met a single person who doesn't conform to something. It's just a human thing - we all fuckin do it.

Tyler:
I really don't want to be a "non-conformist" though. I know conform in many ways. I don't walk around naked in the summer - so I conform to certain norms. I'm just a whiney bitch when it comes to eighteen year old dumbasses who spend twenty minutes plus on their hair and clothing in the morning to look the exact same as everyone else in their little clique and then call themselves "non-conformists" and better than the rest. As far as I'm concerned, if you're putting a single ounce of thought into what you wear (including purchasing of clothing), you're probably conforming to something. And I include myself in this. It's the last part - being righteous - that pisses me off.

It's just a matter of what image.
You have to be insecure as all fuck not to willingly admit that you have an image, or several.

I don't think I've ever met a single person who doesn't conform to something. It's just a human thing - we all fuckin do it.

But one who is truely "different" in all likelihood doesn't want to be seen or noticed as "different". That's my point - those most focused on being seen as unique are the ones who are least unique. And those who are unique tend to hide their light under a bushel.

Of course your mohawk makes you different than the main stream. But you're no less a conformist than anyone else - you're just conforming to another group's standards.
fuck yah!

of course no human can actualy express themsleves, even the shallowest person is too complex to be truethfully and fully expressed, let alone by somthing as simple as clothes.
what it does express however is how they want OTHERS to think of them and how they want OTHERS to react with them.

if im going around in bondage pants, wild spiked dyed hair, a spiky leather colar, and a mesh shirt (i just perfectly described quite a few people i know...) then do you think im doing this to express myself? am i dressed in such a way to let you know the very inner workings of my mind?
or am i dressed like this to shock people, fit in with other people, and perhaps express my interest in kinky sex?
it is impossible to actualy 'express yourself' through clothes, other than to express how you want to be treated and who you want to fit in with.

of course no human can actualy express themsleves, even the shallowest person is too complex to be truethfully and fully expressed, let alone by somthing as simple as clothes.

Maybe, but are the people complex or is it just that they throw out so many facets that makes them seem complex?

or am i dressed like this to shock people, fit in with other people, and perhaps express my interest in kinky sex?

Yah, you're showing who you're with.
It's all theatrics.
I actually bet that you're not doing the last.

Dearprudence:
It is interesting how your moods are noticable to others. Like there's some subtle way of carrying yourself that says more than what you're wearing.

A not so similar thing happened to me.

On a Jewish youth group excursion that I was forced to go on, we got around to debating the purpose of wearing conservative clothing. This stemmed off of complaints over the male/female kiddies having to visit the swimming pool at different times. The basic excuse was that what we wear affects the way we feel about ourselves, and if we're wearing next to nothing, especially the women, then we feel more like objects or sexual beings than dignified people.

Guys respond to skin. I cant help but have certain thoughts go through my head when I see it.

This is true, if even only a little. So yeah, it does affect the way others see us BUT thats merely a reflection of how we feel about ourselves, which is expressed in the clothes we wear. I like to think of myself as a sexual being, but also more than that. You can tell in the clothes I wear.

Xev's the same. She wears heals to inform unsuspecting males thats she's capable of birthing (:D)

P Diddy and Conservative Judaism? Talk about a tangent...

i think maybe people (some of us) do dress purely for comfort, warmth, and protection from the environment. but beyond being physically comfortable, you have to feel comfortable wearing it. i may be really laid back in jammies everyday but i would feel more comfortable walking around in public in cordouroys or khaki pants instead of my cute but housebound pajamas.

as for expressing yourself, i don't understand clothes/fashion so i'll just leave it alone. i don't get shopping. period. wearing a uniform to high school was the greatest thing ever cause i didn' t have to think about it. my answer to anyone who thinks uniforms take away your individuality: if you need clothes to be an individual, you weren't one in the first place. when we had "dress-down days" i found that 'the clothes' distracted me from 'the people'.

Ever since the 60's I have worn blue jeans and a Hawiian shirt of some type. I live in Key West, Florida where it's hot most of the year so I can get by wearing this type of attire. I also wear open sandles not tennis shoes. I find these to be much more comfortable than any other "enclosed" type of footwear. I really don't care much about style only function. Those that follow style are just playing into the designers hands and spend a fortune trying to keep up with all the stupid(IMO) changes that come along. But that's their life style so that's what makes them somehow feel good. So be it.

Who are these people that need to express themselves to every one?

Pimply goths.
Dorks.
.......And middle-classed bovines.


All those brands of human that can't function without being branded.

I actually bet that you're not doing the last.
are you refering to the kinky sex or the mesh shirt? under the context it could be taken iether way.

if im going around in bondage pants, wild spiked dyed hair, a spiky leather colar, and a mesh shirt (i just perfectly described quite a few people i know...)
fuck knows i could never be caught dead wearing a mesh shirt, despite how sexy my six pack is.
i was simply being hypatheticle with that description, i have no idea why i used it in the first person.

Maybe, but are the people complex or is it just that they throw out so many facets that makes them seem complex?
doesnt the ability or need to create such facets make them complex? arent these very facets simply parts of the whole, even if exagerated?

oh, and if you were refering to the kinky sex,... i think youd be suprised;)

I wear ugly, comfortable clothing. I don't attract... correlation Xev ? :)

I just kid. I put some thought in what I wear and how I look only
because I have to participate in the mating game. Funny humans
and our "rituals"...

Nothing wrong with dressing to impress, or get people's attention. I'm not fan of labels though. I don't see why a tee-shirt with some designers name screenprinted on it, is any better than a non-label one, which is probably made in an adjacent sweatshop somewhere in the east. And don't get me started on 'designer' jeans, they are the funniest 'fashion' rip going.

But dressing a certain way, adopting the vogue look, don't see anything wrong with that. It's nothing new, problem is, the puritan and Victorian eras looked down on it, and some still carry that attitude. Dressing dowdy was just as much a fashion as dressing up, and trying to convey a message just as much.

I dress for practicality mostly, but I must say, I look pretty good, ...!

slave:
are you refering to the kinky sex or the mesh shirt? under the context it could be taken iether way.

*Shrugs*
I always figured that the S/M enthusiests were the ones wearing fairly normal clothing and wondering what in the hell some fifteen year old with a dog collar and Graveworm t-shirt was co-opting their subculture for.

(I actually like Graveworm.)

doesnt the ability or need to create such facets make them complex? arent these very facets simply parts of the whole, even if exagerated?

I've been wondering about this for a while. The need to create such facets doesn't make them complex, it just means that they want to please everyone.
But the ease with which they create facets says something about how malleable the personality is. Human character is characterlessness.

Is there really nothing but surface with nothing underneath? This is how I feel around most people, there's simply surface and a roaring void within.

Clothing insinuates style. People follow certain fashion because they want to act like cattles. That's their style.

I have my own style of clothing regardless what the fasion is.

Originally posted by Joeman
Clothing insinuates style. People follow certain fashion because they want to act like cattles. That's their style.

I have my own style of clothing regardless what the fasion is.

So you're cattle in your own way ;)

It's alright, I won't tell! *shhhhh*