is anyone ever truely happy?
or do we just fool ourselves with shiney toys and illusions to make ourselves fake happy for a while so we think we're not miserable?

Dennis Leary said somthing pretty funny that relates to your topic. I know bits and peaices of it so leary fans dont kill me....

"Happiness comes in intervals of 5 sencods, it comes in a cookie, it comes in a present, it comes in a orgasm. I am so sick of people saying that they want to be happy....you eat the cookie, you like the present you have sex and get up in the morning and go to fucking work" It went somthing like that.......

I dont think that we try to make ourselves happy it is a subliminal thing we do. We are always trying and looking to humor ourselves to forget about our worrys in life. If someone is truly happy then i havent met this person.

My wife and workmates say I look too serious, but why pretend? I can laugh and joke like most, but if not in the mood, I don't pretend.

I've never met a truly happy person, but I have met many liars.

And yes, I'm stealing from Nietzsche again.

Nightfall:
is anyone ever truely happy?
Anyone contending that you could bypass misery and be truly happy is selling something.

thank you dearprudence.

There are certain things that make me very happy. Like DearPrudence was talking about, I think when I am skateboarding, I am completely happy. I think it is because I am disconnected from my life and doing something that I love. I do this alone or with people, but either way it is about mentally detaching and having fun. I think everyone has something that makes them happy, it is just sad that most of those things are like drugs, they help disconnect from the routine of life.

Originally posted by Dearprudence
...without the insecticide of society's demands.
Thats a very apt description.
Most of our decisions are influenced by the wants/needs of others. And as I slowly but surely unshackle myself from this web I find my level of happiness and contentment rising:cool:

Originally posted by Dearprudence
To tell you the truth, I'm truly happy when I'm alone and tripping without the insecticide of society's demands. Cycling along the airfield and racing aircraft taking off... that's when I'm happiest.

I am happiest when alone, or at least when I am working alone, like at present. Having no egoistic self loving glory trippers around me is so pleasing. All I have to listen to is my own heart!!

Originally posted by NightFall
is anyone ever truely happy?
or do we just fool ourselves with shiney toys and illusions to make ourselves fake happy for a while so we think we're not miserable?

There is no such thing is truly happy. We always want better and more. Utopia is true happiness but well you know the rest.....

We aren't exactly flat out miserable and then lay on the layers of momentary happiness on top of that misery to forget the pain. Many are just content passive - not miserable or truly, utterly happy....just content with the moderate existence.

Anyone contending that you could bypass misery and be truly happy is selling something.

Gendy hits it out of the ballpark again...*crowd cheering*....

I've never been truly happy.





Originally posted by sargentlard:
There is no such thing is truly happy.
-----------------------------------------
Bull crap. Not only can that not be proven,
it's complete garbage.

Happiness is attutude (and a little luck - it would be difficult to maintain real happiness if your child is murdered or something)

Originally posted by gendanken
Nightfall:

Anyone contending that you could bypass misery and be truly happy is selling something.

That's only mostly truth. I mean, I've found great amusement in my own misery. Happiness comes from amusement to me, and amusement is basically attitude. A refusal to wallow in pointlessness. It still occasionally happens, so you're point is mostly true...

Of course I think you'll find that if you amusement only comes from the suffering of others, it will infect you. I think you can be truly happy if you are as fair and balanced in your entertainment of yourself as you are in how you are entertained by others.

Originally posted by cool skill

Originally posted by sargentlard:
There is no such thing is truly happy.
-----------------------------------------
Bull crap. Not only can that not be proven,
it's complete garbage.

Well i am waiting for proof......just waiting.

Originally posted by NightFall
is anyone ever truely happy?
or do we just fool ourselves with shiney toys and illusions to make ourselves fake happy for a while so we think we're not miserable?

Excellent thought nightfall,
And it really kicks into the purpose of life for humans and death. Happiness is a function of expectation, and life expectation is a function of how a person views life.

To some, life is the only thing known and only chance of being; These people tend to have very high expectations from life. Some thinks that they can even defeat death, diseace, or live in infinite wealth and health. Usually, these expectations are not met, and thus they are miserable and might fake their misery by indulging in side attainable things while their true object of desire lingers in their minds without being addressed leading to increased misery as they get older and more closer to the end of their life.

To others, life is but a train stop in an infinite journey. To these people, life expectations are very little, and thus any accomplishment makes them happy. These people are happy with as little as possible and only miserable at the thought of being stuck at this train stop.

To me, I would like to optimize the way I feel about life so that I'm comfortable with both possibiliteis of living infinitly or dying tomorrow. I live my life with that slogan that every passing minute could be my last or just my beginning.

Originally posted by Dearprudence
I agree. But I call that sort of happiness concocted. How else is attitude manufactured?

I believe the more pertinent question is: How else could happiness exist? The only place it exists is in people's minds. It has to get in there somehow. Your particular skew (your perspective) perpetually reflects back onto the world. If you have a shit skew, how do you expect to see the world? I think it'll look like shit. You gotta put the happy in your head, it's better if you can put it in other heads too.

I believe that from time to time something in our lives makes us happy. It could be catching your first fish, getting your first kiss, someone gives you something that you never expected or various other things. That instant when it happens are the moments your the happiest at. Many non material things can and do make you happy but as I have stated there are many other things that can do it as well. We try to keep those things that made us happy to try and remember that moment in life.

A car doesn't make us happy, we make ourselves happy. Things cannot make us feel anything but people that bring the gifts do. Many material things we have we think bring us happiness but as time passes those things don't bring the happpiness that they once did, if they did. So in answer to your question , yes and no.

Originally posted by Dearprudence
Isn't perspective something we don't have full control of because it encompasses us entirely?

Certainly, like I mentioned above, if my child or wife or father or friend was brutally murdered right in front of me, or any event happens that is traumatic to my perspective, I'll experience trauma.

I might ask though... why is it traumatic? Certainly seeing someone that I care about being hurt is a painful thing.. but if it is traumatic, it is because I lack the will to make it otherwise. After all, it is MY perspective is it not? Who else or what else could effect it but ME? Sure I can allow others to effect it, but getting right down to it.. how else can it change but that I allow it? (this is basically taking complete responsibility for your you)
Originally posted by Dearprudence

For example, in my illustration of me racing aircraft taking off; where did that originate from, and why does it make me feel happy?

There is only one possible place that your happiness originates from - your mind.
Originally posted by Dearprudence

Obviously, there's an innate context involved that has discovered its symbolism in the outside world.

No, that's not true. Where would you propose that this context comes from? (you provide it). A context cannot discover. Bringing in symbolism seems quite random to me.
Originally posted by Dearprudence

No wonder I can return to it time and time again and it will never fail to enlighten me >> because the symbol is alive.

Oh maybe I see what you're getting at.. but it seems to me that you're under the impression that symbolism is somehow external to you. I'd say that's impossible by the nature of the beast (symbolism is inherently subjective).

I am disapointed in you kids.:(

Can you ever truly be happy?
I guess that depends on the beleifs you have chosen.
I am very truly happy.
All the time,no.
But it is a different type of happiness.
I know that through the toughest of times,I have been through them before.
Many times I have felt like there was no way I was going to make it through a certain situation.
But I always manage to pull through.
I may not always describe it as happiness.
How about integrity.
How about pride.
How about thinking that the only way to feel bad is if you consciously say to yourself,I give up,or I quit,or I am not good enough.
How about asking yourself some better questions.

A lot of people get caught in asking habituous questions of themselves,like;why does this always happen to me?
Why can't I ever get this right?

Instead you could ask better questions in what ever situation you are currentyly in and ask things like,
What am I truly grateful for in my life right now,or could be if I wanted to?
Don't just ask these question half asked either.
Seriously,there is something in your life right now that you could be grateful for if you just looked for it.
Like being able to talk to other intellects of mind on this forum.
I am anyways.
The fact that most of us have running water,electricity,most of us I am sure are not starving.
How about a freind,or the fact that at any time you could go out and contribute to someone or something.


I don't know, look in your own life and awnser it.
I am grateful for so much.
But I have also gotten good at asking this question and coming up with awnsers.

How about questions like,what is a new experience that I can have today?
What can I do today that I have never done before?
How can I make some one elses day just a bit better,or makwe them feel appreciated.
What can I do to turn this situation around and maybe even have fun doing it?

And on and on.
The questions you ask yourself on a habitual basis wil have alot to do with the consistan states you produce,thus your feelings,thus your perception of things to some degree.;

Is it possible to be truly happy?
Yes if you learn to ask better questions of yourself.
Works for me.
Peace Out


P.S.
Is that really you in your picture Night Fall,or did you just download that off some site?
Show some real pictures of you,like the ones of you on your treadmill.:D

I am pretty much happy i think. At times i am unhappy. At times i am happier than others. But generally I am happy with the decisions i have made and the life that i have.

I think making wise decisions helps.

Dearprudence:
Just like books, I phink.

But, quicker than books, symbols inject me with instant info.


But like, do you think I could read that book the same way you do? Sounds to me like I wouldn't even know the alphabet.

thank you for your thoughts everybody!
sorry i havn't been back i havn' had computer access for a while.

Ive read through your posts and there are alot of really good points (and wesmorris i think im going to adopt the phrase "shit skew" if you don't mind just becuase its so damn catchy.)
But now i have something else to through in the pot.
Wether you beleive happiness is a true achievable lasting state, or an illusion, where does that feeling come from?

If you are poked with a needle it hurts.
pain causes tears and sadness.
disruption causes anger.
these are all very physical and real thnings. But when you put a toy in a child hands, that child smiles. No while the smile makes sense, a smile is inviting, it means you want more of that thing, The actual emotion of happiness doesn't. the chilodn't wasn't poked, or in pain, or disrupted, nothing was changed, the toy ddn't hurt, it wasn't hot on a cold day or cold on a hot day in a nyway that was pleasing to the childs hands, it ws just pleasing. And for no real physical apparant reason. it made the child happy..


hope you can follow what i was going on there.

ps. moementum7 - yes.

Generally when you're happy, I've found, you don't know it unless you stop for a moment and think about it.

Wow!
*is felt as a timeless orgy*
I was going to explain happiness in that exact same way!
And...*It is when one attempts to *hold* it in one's grip*
Couldn't have said it beter myself.:D

Is anyone ever truly happy?

I say yes. It's possible to be truly happy, but it is fleeting. The things that bring us true happiness are almost never tangible, physical things, and that's where many people go wrong. The "shiney toys and illusions" are often expected to bring happiness, but the real thing is not something you can actively search for.

As others have said, happiness is in the mind. You are the one who decides whether or not to be happy, though it doesn't always seem that way. If you "think happy thoughts" you'll be happier. To some this may seem like self delusion, but what other kind of happiness is there? Can you name a case where something other than "happy thoughts" makes you happy? I think there have been psychological studies that show, if you smile more, your general mood improves. It all depends on how you look at things.

Of course, real, true happiness should not take any effort. When I'm eating thanksgiving dinner with my family, I'm happy. I don't have to tell myself "Ok, self. Things are looking good, let's feel happy now", it just happens. The sticking point is, what makes moments like that different from a case where your positive thoughts make you feel happy? Does the spontaneity of "true happiness" make it different from the "imposed happiness"?

I guess my answer to that would have to be "yes and no". Yes, in that in both cases you end up feeling good. Both cases result from you being positive, thinking positive thoughts, etc. No, because one is intentional, it comes from your general outlook on life. The other is spontaneous, it comes from "happy things" happening around you.

All in all, I'd say true, pure happiness cannot be forced, it has to just happen. General happiness, though, can be influenced by your state of mind and outlook on life.

Hopefully that all made sense... ;)

Only humans would even expect to be in a state of constant happiness.
Traditionally you aren't supposed to be happy, you're supposed to be in a constant grueling struggle for survival with tiny treats along the way.
We have managed to take ourselves out of the grueling struggle and round up as many of the treats as possible, to try and enjoy all day.
And yet we find this unfullfilling, probably because it is such an unnatural and bizarre level of comfort. I think thats why people take up extreme sports. They feel the need to hurt themselves and risk their lives because deep down they find something unsettling about being so safe and comfortable.

Anyway, the answer to "is anyone ever truely happy?" is yes but only for a short period. Thats what happiness happens to be. Its not some constant magical state of existence, its a reward for living, the living itself is supposed to suck, thats why you get rewarded for doing it.
Say you get paid 15 bucks an hour, it takes much less than an hour to SPEND that 15 bucks doesn't it? Life and happiness is the same thing. You get a short reward for enduring extended mysery.
We are all still here so I guess we feel its worth it.

happiness comes from happenings... hence the correlation... the only constant "happy" feeling you can ever attain is borne of joy.. joy stems from acceptance of any and all situations that arise in your day-to-day existence...

shelling out cash for shiny toys and whatever else turns your crank is nothing but pure unadulterated bullshite.. it is the illusion to end all illusions... material possessions or "happenings" do not produce true "happiness" as our interpretations of them are subjective and relative...

the answer is definitely "NO" for me, i do not believe that eating a good meal brings me happiness, but it does add to my joy of being alive and living on planet earth... i am happy when i give a homeless person a cup of coffee on a cold december day.. because as someone said earlier, "Happiness is fleeting, it is a result of our actions" JOY on the otherhand relies only on our being true to ourselves and accepting the life we have chosen and continue to choose for ourselves... being a good Samaritan requires year round service, not just when it suits our fancy...

there is only NOW anyways... the present moment... everything else is an illusion... the past is dead and the future is non-existant... happiness depends on exterior motivation whereas joy simply is because it just simply exists... it is innate yet we squash it with every curve ball life throws at us...

D

ps.. debunking the myth that others can make you happy is my goal in this life... no one can make you happy, ever... they can add happy moments to your human existence or socialized life but there already has to be the seed of joy in you in order for you to reap the benefits of it...

Originally posted by NightFall
is anyone ever truely happy?
or do we just fool ourselves with shiney toys and illusions to make ourselves fake happy for a while so we think we're not miserable?

i dont like to fake being happy, it just makes me more depressed
i dont know what makes me happy, just if i feel it, then its there

my nickname at work is "sunshine", and its obivious im not very happy to be there :)

i tend to be depressed quite a bit, but it makes me feel good not to have to fake being happy

you hear that at "Wal-Mart" you have to do a GOOD MORNING SONG in a group before you start work..... oy id flip out if i had to do that

im happy right now, i dont know why....

and im very happy when im drunk ;)

and no, im not drunk now.... altough.... :rolleyes:

I know that I have been very happy at times. Those times were more numerous when I was much younger. Nowadays it seems that life has jaded me somewhat and those happy feelings are harder to come by. Before my ex could help my happiness when she was around to bring a smile to my face with her smile and grace. Times change so now I find happiness wherever I can and whenever I can, sometimes from another persons comments or from things that nature does. It is fleeting to say the least now but I do enjoy it when it happens. Things don't bring me as much happiness as does other peoples warmth and cheer.:)

Originally posted by NightFall
is anyone ever truely happy?
or do we just fool ourselves with shiney toys and illusions to make ourselves fake happy for a while so we think we're not miserable?


errm ... i don´t know if this book is available in english ....
Paul Watzlawick - Anleitung zum Ungluecklich sein ( a book that has all the answers to your questions me thinks )
it´s funny ,but also full of wisdom about that topic !