Faith beyond Political Correctness: Islam’s Commitment to Humanity

The ultimate vision of Islam is transcendent: it is a moral doctrine, not a secular ideology. Islam takes the measure of the human condition from the perspective of the eternal and fosters a faith whose truth stretches beyond the realm of existence and time. Only through a commitment to the ultimate transcendence does the human world, the world of history and politics, acquire whatever meaning that it seeks. For the human world can have no claim to being sui generic (being an example of its type), whether existentially or morally. Man’s existence is a gift, and his/her morality a commitment. Morality is an obligation, a contractual agreement that has been freely negotiated by Man himself and not a burden arbitrarily imposed upon him. Existence and morality are therefore indissoluble in the Islamic perspective. Just as we cannot will ourselves into existence, we cannot annul the moral contract either.

We may, of course, if we are foolish or haughty, disregard the stipulations of our agreement, but dissolve it, we cannot. The is of the Islamic condition, accordingly, is never bereft of the ought of the transcendence. The world of politics and history, whatever their legitimacy and import, can never be the be-all and end-all of the Islamic commitment.

The true image of homo islamicus has become obscured as much by the heartless positivism of modernity--as by the mindless literalism of the Islamic tradition itself

A must read for every intelligent mind:

http://www.islamonline.net/english/Contemporary/2003/08/Article01.shtml

Homo islamicus? You are a different race/species now?

Jesus committed himself to humanity more so. He took all sin, past, present, and future, put it upon himself, and destroyed it when he was crucified. Could you imagine yourself dying like that, going through all the emotional and physical torture, so that people you love could spend eternity with you? It would be awfully hard for me to answer yes to that. But even if you were the only person on earth, Jesus would have died for your transgressions. He is that loving.

Keep this in mind when I tell you that the Christian religion is based on love. Proud Muslim, I want you to be in heaven with me at the glorious time of Jesus' return. Please open your heart to what the bible has to say.

John 3:16 says:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever should believe in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

Just remember that.

Love in Christ,

Kevin

homo islamicus

That is positively hilarious!

Morality is an obligation? well islamic morality isn't what I would consider moral at all. Some lessons on islamic morals from islam itself

The obligation of hating false religious
This Saturday's LIVE talk on Paltalk will discuss one of the greatest
forgotten obligations in Islaam - Hating false religions. Allaah (swt)
orders the believers to hate all other religions, way of lives, creeds,
doctrines and beliefs that contradict with Islaam, and one cannot be
Muslim without to declare animosity and hatred towards kufr, bid'ah,
shirk and nifaaq (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism,
Buddhism, Democracy, Freedom etc.).

Date and time: 27th of March 2004, from 5:30pm - 6:30pm GMT
Room: LIVE - Hating false religions
Speaker: Abu Muwahhid

From the kafir loving folks over at Al-Muhajiroun
http://www.almuk.com/obm/paltalk.html


From Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)

Question :
Is it haram to have iftar with non muslims like hindu,christian.etc...?.

Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.

It is permissible to have iftaar with non-Muslims if there is a shar’i reason for doing so, such as calling them to the true religion, or softening their hearts towards Islam, etc, which are what is hoped for if they come and eat iftaar at the tables set up for communal iftaar, as happens in some countries. But if it is done just to be friendly towards them and enjoy their company, this is a dangerous matter, because the principle of al-wala' wa'l-bara' (befriending the believers and showing enmity towards the disbelievers) is one of the basic principles of Islam, and one of the most important duties of the believers. ...

linky link http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=38125&dgn=4


Slavery and islam

Allah is our creator and ultimate Master. We, as his creations and slaves
are obliged to express our servitude to Him Alone. If one does not submit
his slavery to Allah, which of course is far more heinous and unjust to
Allah in comparison to the 'injustices' of slavery and sexual relationship,
etc. by a human master.

Since the human being did not willingly submit to the ultimate Master,
Allah, He condemns them to the unwilling slavery of his sincere slaves. And
by understanding the powers of a man master, they may understand the Powers
of the True Master, Allah. In fact, the concept of slavery should be
regarded as a concept of mercy, as the heinous crime of rejecting Allah as
our Master demands immediate terminating of life. Allah, our kind Master,
has granted an opportunity to his very negators to enjoy a second chance of
life and redirect it to the right avenue by submitting to Him as the
ultimate Master.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.

From the happy people over at
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=1928


Conclusion on meaning of jihad from the loving community over at http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/jihad/#epilogue


My brothers! The ummah that knows how to die a noble and honourable death is granted an exalted life in this world and eternal felicity in the next. Degradation and dishonour are the results of the love of this world and the fear of death. Therefore prepare for jihad and be the lovers of death. Life itself shall come searching after you.

My brother, you should know that one day you will face death and this ominous event can only occur once. If you suffer on this occasion in the way of Allah, it will be to your benefit in this world and your reward in the next. And remember brother that nothing can happen without the Will of Allah: ponder well what Allah, the Blessed, the Almighty, has said:

‘Then after the distress, He sent down security for you. Slumber overtook a party of you, while another party was thinking about themselves (as to how to save themselves, ignoring the others and the Prophet) and thought wrongly of Allah - the thought of ignorance. They said, "Have we any part in the affair?" Say you (O Muhammad): "Indeed the affair belongs wholly to Allah." They hide within themselves what they dare not reveal to you, saying: "If we had anything to do with the affair, none of us would have been killed here." Say: "Even if you had remained in your homes, those for whom death was decreed would certainly have gone forth to the place of their death: but that Allah might test what is in your hearts; and to purify that which was in your hearts (sins), and Allah is All-Knower of what is in (your) hearts."’

(Surat al-Imran (3), ayah 154)

You should yearn for an honourable death and you will gain perfect happiness. May Allah grant myself and yours the honour of martyrdom in His way!


This isn't even the tip of the iceberg If any muslims have a problem with this then I suggest you take it up with the muslims who follow this I simply pasted quotes and links from muslim sites. More to come

This may come as a surprise to you PM but hatred, slavery and killing are considered IMMORAL outside of islam

Some more examples from the immaculate life of Mohammad
Sahih Bukhari , Volume 1, Book 11, Number 617:

Quote:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is I was about to order for collecting fire-wood (fuel) and then order Someone to pronounce the Adhan for the prayer and then order someone to lead the prayer then I would go from behind and burn the houses of men who did not present themselves for the (compulsory congregational) prayer. By Him, in Whose Hands my soul is, if anyone of them had known that he would get a bone covered with good meat or two (small) pieces of meat present in between two ribs, he would have turned up for the 'Isha' prayer.'


____________________________________________

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626:

Quote:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses."


____________________________________________

Sahih Bukhari , Volume 3, Book 41, Number 602:

Quote:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "No doubt, I intended to order somebody to pronounce the Iqama of the (compulsory congregational) prayer and then I would go to the houses of those who do not attend the prayer and burn their houses over them."


____________________________________________

Sahih Bukhari , Volume 9, Book 89, Number 330:

Quote:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, I was about to order for collecting fire wood and then order someone to pronounce the Adhan for the prayer and then order someone to lead the people in prayer and then I would go from behind and burn the houses of men who did not present themselves for the (compulsory congregational) prayer. By Him in Whose Hands my life is, if anyone of you had known that he would receive a bone covered with meat or two (small) pieces of meat present in between two ribs, he would come for 'Isha' prayer." (See Hadith No. 617, Vol. 1)


____________________________________________

Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1370:

Quote:
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger as saying: The most burdensome prayers for the hypocrites are the night prayer and the morning prayer. If they were to know the blessings they have in store, they would have come to them, even though crawling, and I thought that I should order the prayer to be commenced and command a person to lead people in prayer, and I should then go along with some persons having a fagot of fuel with them to the people who have not attended the prayer (in congregation) and would burn their houses with fire.


____________________________________________

Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1371:

Quote:
Hammam b. Munabbih reported: This is what Abu Huraira reported to us from the Messenger of Allah and (in this connection) he narrated some ahadith, one of them is: The Messenger of Allah said: I intend that I should command my young men to gather bundles fuel for me, and then order a person to lead people in prayer, and then burn the houses with their inmates (who have not joined the congregation).


____________________________________________

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 1373:

Quote:
'Abdullah reported Allah's Messenger as saying about people who are absent from Jumu'a prayer: I intend that I should command a person to lead people in prayer, and then burn those persons who absent themselves from Jumu'a prayer in their houses.

____________________________________________

Mailk's Muwatta, Book 8, Number 8.1.3:

Quote:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Abu'zZinad from al-Araj from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "By Him in whose hand myself is! I had in mind to order firewood to be collected, then to order the prayer to be called, and to appoint a man to lead the people in prayer, and then to come up behind certain men and burn their houses down about them! By Him in whose hand myself is! If one of them knew that he would find a meaty bone or two good legs of meat, he would be present at isha.''


So this is gods prophet? An exemplary human being who set an example for all mankind to follow?

Keep this in mind when I tell you that the Christian religion is based on love. Proud Muslim, I want you to be in heaven with me at the glorious time of Jesus' return. Please open your heart to what the bible has to say.

Indeed, I opened my heart to read about LOVE in the bible, here is what I found:

EZEKIEL 9:4-6 The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women ...."

2KI NGS2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

2KI NGS5:27 Elisha curses Gehazi and his descendants forever with leprosy.

CANNIBALISM IN THE BIBLE:

2KINGS 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

2KINGS 9:30-37 Jehu has Jezebel killed. Her body is trampled by horses. Dogs eat her flesh so that only her skull, feet, and the palms of her hands remain.

2KINGS 10:7 Jehu has Ahab's seventy sons beheaded, then sends the heads to their father.

2KINGS 10:14 Jehu has forty-two of Ahab's kin killed.

2KINGS 10:17 "And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained to Ahab in Samaria, till he had wiped them out, according to the word of the Lord ...."

2KINGS 10:19-27 Jehu uses trickery to massacre the Baal worshippers.

2KINGS 14:5, 7 Amaziah kills his servants and then 10,000 Edomites.

2KINGS 15:3-5 Even though he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, the Lord smites Azariah with leprosy for not having removed the "high places."

2KINGS 15:16 Menahem ripped open all the women who were pregnant.

2KINGS 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.

2CHRONICLES 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slaughtered.

2CHRONICLES 21:4 Jehoram slays all his brothers.

PSALMS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle

ISAIAH 49:26 The Lord will cause the oppressors of the Israelite's toeat their own flesh and to become drunk on their own blood as with wine.

EZEKIEL 6:12-13 The Lord says: "... they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them. And they will know I am the Lord, when the people lie slain among their idols around their altars, on every high hill and on all the mountaintops, under every spreading tree and every leafy oak ...."

EZEKIEL 20:26 In order that he might horrify them, the Lord allowed the Israelites to defile themselves through, amongst other things, the sacrifice of their first-born children.

EZEKIEL 21:3-4 The Lord says that he will cut off both the righteous and the wicked that his sword shall go against all flesh.

EZEKIEL 23:25,47 God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those who were whores. (( collective punishment in the bible !! )) SO MUCH LOVE INDEED !! :rolleyes:

INFANTS SHALL BE DASHED IN PIECES !!! IMMENSE CHRISTIAN LOVE :rolleyes:

HOSEA 13:16 "They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

MATTHEW 11:21-24 Jesus curses [the inhabitants of] three cities who were not sufficiently impressed with his great works.

After reading the above verses from the bible, I came to conclusion that christianity is false sect based on false promises and lies, and before you tell me JESUS LOVES YOU, I will tell you and I love him too because I am Muslim.

Here is my invitation to you to abandon your false sect called christianity and join the only true religion: ISLAM

http://www.jesus-or-allah.com

How moral is lying?? Well according to Allah it is A-OK as long as you are lying to kafirs


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.geocities.com/bharatvarsha1947/January_2003/destroykafirs.htm

Islamic concept of Al-Taqiyah to infiltrate and destroy kafir countries

According to Al-Taqiyah, Muslims were granted the Shar'iyee right (legitimacy) to infiltrate the Dar el-Harb (war zone), infiltrate the enemy's cities and forums and plant the seeds of discord and sedition. These agents were acting on behalf of the Muslim authority at war, and therefore were not considered as lying against or denouncing the tenants of Islam.

They were "legitimate" mujahedeen, whose mission was to undermine the enemy's resistance and level of mobilization. One of their major objectives was to cause a split among the enemy's camp while downplaying the issues related to Islam ("Oh, I am not religious." "Oh, that is not Islam, you are mistaken, there is so much misinformation." "Oh, it is in the interpretation." "Brother, Islam is all about peace and love and music just like in the 60s.") In many instances, they convinced their targeted audiences that Jihad is not aimed at them, that indigenous people are not targeted. Meanwhile the (allegedly) "un Islamic" Muslims continued their attacks on the target's property and life (e.g. Lashkar-e Toyiba, Mujahideen and Osama Bin Laden's
declaration of war against innocent American civilians).


http://www.studytoanswer.net/myths_ch8.html#ch8-7

These are examples of a practice known as taqiyya, which essentially means to lie for the sake of Islam. The intention is to deceive unbelievers about Islam, for the explicit purpose of assuaging doubts and concerns about Islam, and encouraging conversion. Taqiyya underlies the whole gamut of Muslim propaganda which is disseminated in the West, from the claim that Islam promotes equal rights for women, to the attempts at inflating the perceived number of Muslims. All are designed to draw people to Islam, by hook or by crook. The example given before of the Durham imam who went so far as to claim that he would be compelled by his religion to prevent a vandal from destroying the property of a church or synagogue is a typical example of taqiyya. It was said in a public forum for the express purpose of giving an appearance to the Islamic religion which does not reflect reality. Certainly, as has been seen, the historical attitudes of Muslims toward churches and synagogues has NOT been to protect them from vandalism, just the opposite is in fact the case. But, the lie must be told in the public forum so as to present Islam in a positive and tolerant light which will appeal to Westerners, which will cause them to believe that the image of Islam as an intolerant and violent religion are just myths created by Islam's enemies to defame the True Faith.

This sort of sanctified dishonesty is also justified in the minds of many Muslims on the basis that everyone else who opposes Islam is lying. For many Muslims, it is absolutely inconceivable that anyone could ever reject Islam on logical or rational grounds, therefore to claim to do so indicates a failing in intelligence or morality on the part of the infidel. Schuon quite insightfully illuminates us to the attitude of the Muslim mind,


"The intellectual - and thereby the rational - foundation of Islam results in the average Muslim having a curious tendency to believe that non-Muslims either know that Islam is the truth and reject it out of pure obstinacy, or else are simply ignorant of it and can be converted by elementary explanations; that anyone should be able to oppose Islam with a good conscience quite exceeds the Muslim's imagination, precisely because Islam coincides in his mind with the irresistible logic of things."27
This insight elucidates many things which those who deal with Muslims on a regular basis can readily observe. It explains why Muslim apologetic defense of Islam is so often very elementary, even childish, in its presentation, and often quickly breaks down into name-calling against the infidel who has refuted Islamic arguments. It enlightens us as to why Muslims will loudly trumpet the "logic" and "rationality" of Islam while simultaneously defending their faith with circular reasoning and other errors of logic. This is why Muslims can, without any apparent irony, claim that Islam is a "religion of peace", even when the testimony of both history and current events bellows the opposite. For most Muslims, the idea that an infidel could reject Islam because of a sincere concern for knowing the truth is absolutely inconceivable. Hence, the infidel must be lying when he or she present facts and arguments against Islam, and the infidel must be an especially tricky liar when the facts and arguments cannot be answered by the Muslim. Hence, the resort to taqiyya to turn aside infidel lies so that the logic of truth, a priori defined as anything Islamic, will stand firm.

Taqiyya goes beyond mere lying for propaganda purposes. The word comes from a root meaning "to guard against, to keep (oneself)". It thus also includes dissimulation by the Muslim to give the appearance of not being religious, so as not to arouse suspicion. In this vein, a Muslim, if necessary, may eat pork, drink alcohol, and even verbally deny the Islamic faith, as long as he does not "mean it in his heart". If the end result of the lie is perceived by the Muslim to be good for Islam or useful to bringing someone to "submission" to Allah, then the lie can be sanctioned through taqiyya. As al-Tabbarah writes,


"Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good."28
The taqiyya concept is also found in the Qur'an,


"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah." (Surah 3:28)
Here, the Muslims are warned against taking unbelievers as friends, except if it will be beneficial to the Muslims as a way of defending Islam against its perceived enemies or preventing loss or danger from coming upon the Muslim because of his faith. In other words, the end justifies the means. If a Muslim must give the outward appearance of not being a Muslim, or must go against the general principle of not befriending infidels, then this is acceptable under the taqiyya doctrine. Keep in mind also that what is defined as "good" by the serious Muslim will be anything that aids the spread and eventual triumph of Islam over competing religions and ideologies. As such, this would tend to encourage infiltration of non-Muslim countries and institutions by Muslims who might pretend to support the organisations they join, but who are really working to undermine these for the greater goal of establishing Islam as supreme. Obvious recent examples of this sort of activity would be the misuse of their positions and access to information by Muslim members of America's armed forces, several of whom have been caught and arrested while attempting to pass information along to al-Qaeda and other militant Islamic terrorist organisations.

Perhaps related to its false presentation of itself is the Islamic tendency towards discouraging open inquiry about itself, by which is meant inquiry that is not shepherded by some sort of Muslim religious authority or a Muslim already well-versed in Islamic dogma. This is most plainly seen in the Islamic teaching that the Qur'an cannot be translated out of Arabic. Per strict Islamic traditional teaching, when the Qur'an is translated into some other language, it instantly ceases to be the true Qur'an, becoming instead a document which has had the admixture of man's thoughts and words interjected into it (presumably as a result of the translation process). Only the Qur'an in Arabic, according to Islam, is the true word of Allah. As a result, there are millions of Muslims all over the world who do not know Arabic, and who, when they respond to the muezzin call and hear the Qur'an chanted in Arabic, have not the slightest idea what is really being said. These people have to rely upon an imam or other religious leader to tell them what the Qur'an says, and what it means. Through this means, Islam maintains and enforces the submission of millions of non-Arab Muslims who have to rely upon the Arabic-speakers for knowledge of what their religion teaches and what their holy book says. Because of this teaching, Islam can be said to take on a role as a knowledge control cult much like the Jehovah's Witnesses (who are "encouraged" to read only what the Watchtower Society publishes) or other cults where independent examination of the religion's doctrines are discouraged or prohibited.

This sort of attitude is exactly what is presented in the Muslim traditions, too. In the Qur'an, we find that Muslims are encouraged not to ask hard questions about their own religion, and the reason is because they might lose their faith in Islam if they do,


"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." (Surah 5:102-103)
This discouragement to open questioning is also seen in the ahadith, one of which records that Mohammed was asked about some matters which he did not want to have to answer, and got so angry when the questioner persisted that he grew enraged, red in the face29. Other statements in the ahadith also record Mohammed's adverse reaction to being challenged on the things he taught30. Maududi, one of the most prominent theologians of Islam in the modern age, likewise encourages Muslims to leave off asking the difficult to answer questions about their faith31. The tendency against open questioning and willingness to examine the beliefs of Islam suggests to us that Islam is not really interested in people investigating Islam for the truth's sake (despite what many a Muslim making dawah might say). Rather, it tells us that Islam seeks to suppress its internal inconsistencies and embarrassing teachings, things which might cause the Muslim to doubt his faith and even apostasise if he were to dwell on them.
_________________
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php

The only thing the morals of the koran transcend is a certain part of my anatomy that shall remain nameless :D

Amazing document talking about 50,000 errors in the bible:

http://www.jamaat.net/bible/AwakeArticle(1957).html

Oh and don't EVEN get me started about the 56 year old prophet taking a 6 year old as a wife. Morals?? I think not ;P

OK now you got me started by mentioning morality and islam in the same paragraph. How's old allah feel about sex with pre-pubescent children?

"Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy. " (65:4 )

The English translation is masking the real meaning that is so clear in Arabic

The Quran plainly says:

واللائي لم يحضن" فعدتهن ثلاثة أشهر

"and those who never had menses" (because they are underage)

http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=GALALEEN&nType=1&nSora=65&nAya=4

"The prescribed period" is the period that a Muslim female has to wait before marrying another.

and the quran is talking about the length of this period here, stating that it should be three months, whether she is young (before having any menstruation at all) or old ( after reaching menopause)

Still in denial? does not trust my translation ? eat this; Tafsir.com provides a summed up translated tafsir of the original tafsir ibn kathir
Quote:


The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses


Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. [see 2:228] The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying.


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=65&tid=54196

!!!


so The verse is talking about the devorce status of those who are too younge to have menstruation , and that simply means that its ok to have sex with females who has not reached puberty !!


Still in denial? take this sahih Hadith explaining the verse by Mo Himself:


واللائي لم يحضن , فجعل عدتها ثلاثة أشهر قبل البلوغ ) ‏ ‏أي فدل على أن نكاحها قبل البلوغ جائز
"and those who never had menses, their prescribed period is three months before puberty, which indicates that giving her into marriage before puberty is permissible "

http://hadith.al-islam.com/display/Display.asp?Doc=0&Rec=7644



BEFORE SHE HITS PUBERTY !!!!! ALLAH THE ALL WISE AND MERCIFUL ALLOWS HAVING SEX WITH FEMALES WHO HAVE NOT REACHED PUBERTY.

There are only two kinds of islamic morality.

1. Practical morality that had been the standard long before the birth of Islam. Like the prohibition for murder, theft & adultery.

2. Morality that suck. Like polygamy, sexual discrimination, the murder of apostates, & hatred for non-muslims.

PM your ignorance of christianity is astounding almost everything you quoted is from the old testament which has NOTHING to do with the teachings of Jesus and is mainly a historical backdrop for the christian religion.

Faith beyond Political Correctness: Islam’s Commitment to Humanity

The author of this article tries to take Islam out of stereo-types :

..as by the mindless literalism of the Islamic tradition itself

Will he suceed is a genuine question. Gnostic / Sufi traditions were always looked down with suspicion by the literalists.

Yes he will, we dont look down at any muslim.

VIVA LA ISLAM.

re: BATH ! ENJOY !! :p

THE BIBLE AND SLAVERY

"Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God."
- Colossians 3:22

"Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the foward.
- 1 Peter 2:18

"Let as many servants as are under your yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed."
- 1 Timothy 6:1

"Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ."
- Ephesians 6:5

"Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; not purloining, but showing good
fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things."
- Titus 2:9-10

"And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a
day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."
- Exodus 21:20-21

"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out
by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master has given him a wife, and she has born him sons or daughters; the
wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges;
he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever."
- Exodus 21:2-6

"Both thy bondsmen, and thy bondsmaids, which thou shall have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondsmen and bondsmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession...
- Leviticus 25:44-45

http://www.evilbible.com

Well the url of your source looks like a good valid source.

and here is another source that refutes all christian lies against Islam:

http://www.answering-christianity.com

http://www.jesus-or-allah.com

We should rewrite the title of this thread as, "Dueling URL's"

Proud Muslim, according to the quran are muslim men allowed to have sex with their slaves?

Let me list a couple of examples for "(Blind)Faith beyond Political Correctness"

1. Afghanistan
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Pakistan
4. Libya

Faith beyond Political Correctness is the reason these prevail...
[image removed]
Quran 4:34 "...As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them , refuse to share their beds, beat them ; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means : For Allah is Most High, great.

[image removed]
The former hands of a thief who now have totally lost the ability to make a living.

[image removed]
Beaten to death for being a Hindu

You are mislead.

I want you to read through the book of Romans before you post another message like that. This is the book that most explains the Christian doctrines.

You are mislead.

I want you to read through the book of Romans before you post another message like that. This is the book that most explains the Christian doctrines.

Yours in Christ,

Kevin

You are mislead.

I want you to read through the book of Romans before you post another message like that. This is the book that most explains the Christian doctrines.

Yours in Christ,

Kevin
Who are you talking to, buddy?

Islam permits fighting in self-defense, in defense of religion, or on the part of those who have been expelled forcibly from their homes. It lays down strict rules of combat which include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees and livestock. As Muslims see it, injustice would be triumphant in the world if good men were not prepared to risk their lives in a righteous cause. The Quran says:

Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors. (2:190)

If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things. (8:61)

War, therefore, is the last resort, and is subject to the rigorous conditions laid down by the sacred law. The term jihad literally means 'struggle', and Muslims believe that there are two kinds of jihad. The other 'jihad' is the inner struggle which everyone wages against egotistic desires, for the sake of attaining inner peace.


But set thou thy face to the right Religion before there come from Allah the Day which there is no chance of averting: on that Day shall men be divided (in two). al-Qur'an 30:43

Islam is not a new religion, but the same truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people. For a fifth of the world's population, Islam is both a religion and a complete way of life. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the majority have nothing to do with the extremely grave events which have come to be associated with their faith.

I would never try to compare Islam with Christianlity. Christianity has not ever come near the level and way of existance of Islam and moreover never will. There is ugliness and 'no sense' in Christianity. Don't try to cover up the truth...

I'm not making any of this up, and since I've previously seen that you need back up information and things like that, then go here for your 'proof',
FAQ's ...
http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/uiatm/un_islam.htm

next there are Christians who have killed, burnt alive, tortured, humilated other people IN THE NAME OF GOD.

1) ever heard of a crusade?
2) ever heard of Christians killing so called "witches"
3) ever heard of gay priest (which are against Christinaty of course!) being persecuted
4) ever heard of Christians killing doctors who perform abortions
5) ever heard of Chritsians killing prostitutes (Usually "in the name of God")
6) ever heard of kings and queen burning alive other religions (at time even different sects in their own Christian religion such as Queen Mary and such as Henry VI persecution)
7) dont you know people you thought about science were burnt alive by the church?

ever heard of Christians (americans) helping Israel by supplying money for WEAPONS
to maintain their state which by even thier OWN law (UN, NATO and US) is ILLEGAL becasue it is supporting the oppression of a captured state and promoting ethinic divsion by means of a wall.

ever heard of Bush (a firm christian) lying to the world that iraq has wepons of mass desturction and is a threat to the world. later it has a war resulting in 10,000 iraqis dying, 13,000 Iraqi soldiers dying, 500 american soldiers dying and then revelaing that Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction and forgeting the fact that it is the Christian majority country, America that has over 10,500 nukes, stelath bombers, laser defemce missiles and the only country ever to use a Nuke and also has the most pwerful, accurate, advance nukes.

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE of one lying, hypocritical Christian, even thiough he represents hundreds of millions Christians, i still dont call all Christians hypocrites etc. but you see a few individula Muslims and blame everyone.

Dear Biblebashers

many of the Christians belliefs about Jesus dont go anyway. but the Muslim ones make more sense.

these are some Christian errors about Jesu and the answers.

Jesus died on the cross - so where's the cross he died on, dont you think such a imporntant person like Jesus should have his death site kept and why didnt the universe collpase when Jesus died... the answer is simple Muslims believe he didn;t die on a cross he was raised to heaven. also Jesus's body hs Dissapeard. the answer also fits in with Muslim beliefs.

he was ressurected - only God can casue death and give life so if Jesus is God in human form who gave him life and death and ressurection. and why didnt the universe collpase without God? simple becasue he never died.

why did he die? - christians say the point of him dying was to forgive man of sins. why does he need to askhimself for mankinds forgiveness, and it is even stated in the Bible that every soul is responsivle for their OWN sin so Jesus's death is pointless. simple, the answer to this is the Muslim one, he never died,

is he son of God? - a human son takes on Human characteristiucs; life;death;senses etc. so wouldn't a son of God take God's chracterristcs? then is Death one of Gods Characteristcs?

Islam permits fighting in self-defense, in defense of religion, or on the part of those who have been expelled forcibly from their homes. It lays down strict rules of combat which include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees and livestock. As Muslims see it, injustice would be triumphant in the world if good men were not prepared to risk their lives in a righteous cause. The Quran says:

Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors. (2:190)

If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things. (8:61)

War, therefore, is the last resort, and is subject to the rigorous conditions laid down by the sacred law. The term jihad literally means 'struggle', and Muslims believe that there are two kinds of jihad. The other 'jihad' is the inner struggle which everyone wages against egotistic desires, for the sake of attaining inner peace.

The only problem is that muslims have a different understanding of the words:
* Peace
* Fight
* Self-defense

They see every piece of land as belonging to them muslims. So if a nation refused to accept islam that equates to fighting islam, thus fighting them muslims. And so muslims think they have to defend their right to rule that land and so....

008.039
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

And the rest is history.
The fall of Persia.
The fall of Syria
The fall of Egypt
The fall of India
The fall of Spain
The fall of Byzantine.
The fall of Jerusalem.

Thank goodness that muslims (with the help of the false god allah) were defeated by Charles Martel in their conquest of France.

Islam is not a new religion, but the same truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people.

Funny, nobody told those prophets to say the Shahada. No those prophets had nothing to do with Islam.


For a fifth of the world's population, Islam is both a religion and a complete way of life.

You must be joking. Islam doesnt even dictate the ascendance of the Caliphate. That is why your caliphs keep ending up at the end of a sword. Lucky for Abu Bakr that he died too soon of old age. Unlucky for the rest who bathed in their own blood.


Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the majority have nothing to do with the extremely grave events which have come to be associated with their faith.

Here is the jackpot question:
HOW ON EARTH DOES ISLAM QUALIFIES AS A RELIGION OF PEACE???


Christianity has not ever come near the level and way of existance of Islam and moreover never will. There is ugliness and 'no sense' in Christianity. Don't try to cover up the truth...
Another joke? Just look around you and compare the lives & accomplishments of those two. Even Hinduism is proving to be above Islam. A shame isnt it? :D

Proud Muslim

bath has quoted some very disturbing quotations from muslims via paltalk. Now, these quotes are instructing muslims of today to become martyrs, etc, etc. Nowhere in the Bible will you find an equivalent.

Will you please explain why muslims are encouraging other muslims to kill in the name of Islam, and don't bother side stepping the issue by quoting the bible , because this time it doesn't wash, furthermore it doesn't matter.

Take a look at this from todays telegraph, the Muslim council of Great Britain has been on the news all day, and a programme dedicated to them was televised last night. They talk of being anti terrorism and claim they are calling for all mosques to exercise greater vigilance about what might be being preached by fanatics.

How we can win this war against home-grown terror (http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/04/01/do0101.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/04/01/ixopinion.html)

"Operation Crevice, launched by the security services on Tuesday, may have pre-empted a home-grown Islamist conspiracy to cause death and destruction.

Eight young Muslims, all British-born citizens of Pakistani descent, have been detained.

Tuesday's arrests in Britain have highlighted the Muslim Council of Great Britain's own recent calls for our thousand mosques to exercise greater vigilance about what might be being preached by fanatics."

Now all this talk via Paltalk makes the Muslim Council of Great Britain a bunch of liars.

So whats going on Proud?

HOW ON EARTH DOES ISLAM QUALIFIES AS A RELIGION OF PEACE???

Islam IS a religion of peace for MUSLIMS it is a religion of hatred and violence for everybody else. Join our cult or suffer hellfire, jihad, ostracism, dhimmi tax, reduced status in the eyes of the law etc etc :eek:

Now all this talk via Paltalk makes the Muslim Council of Great Britain a bunch of liars.
So whats going on Proud?

They are only praticing islam as prescribed by thier holy :rolleyes: text you can and should LIE to kafirs. Refer to my post earlier in this thread about Taqyya or LYING IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.

They are only praticing islam as prescribed by thier holy :rolleyes: text you can and should LIE to kafirs. Refer to my post earlier in this thread about Taqyya or LYING IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.

Hmmm I see.

I initially missed that post for some reason. You have pointed out a very important fact here that muslims will lie to "protect" their "faith".

All your qoutes go unchalleged by Proud Muslim which to me only confirms the truth behind them.

The more I learn about Islam and its sub-human members - the more I hate it. There are many people in the world who do not understand how potentially dangerous Islam is, and by discussing it here we can hopefully show Islam in its true light - "the most evil organisation in the world today".

Indeed, I opened my heart to read about LOVE in the bible, here is what I found:

EZEKIEL 9:4-6 The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women ...."

2KI NGS2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

2KI NGS5:27 Elisha curses Gehazi and his descendants forever with leprosy.

CANNIBALISM IN THE BIBLE:

2KINGS 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

2KINGS 9:30-37 Jehu has Jezebel killed. Her body is trampled by horses. Dogs eat her flesh so that only her skull, feet, and the palms of her hands remain.

2KINGS 10:7 Jehu has Ahab's seventy sons beheaded, then sends the heads to their father.

2KINGS 10:14 Jehu has forty-two of Ahab's kin killed.

2KINGS 10:17 "And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained to Ahab in Samaria, till he had wiped them out, according to the word of the Lord ...."

2KINGS 10:19-27 Jehu uses trickery to massacre the Baal worshippers.

2KINGS 14:5, 7 Amaziah kills his servants and then 10,000 Edomites.

2KINGS 15:3-5 Even though he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, the Lord smites Azariah with leprosy for not having removed the "high places."

2KINGS 15:16 Menahem ripped open all the women who were pregnant.

2KINGS 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.

2CHRONICLES 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slaughtered.

2CHRONICLES 21:4 Jehoram slays all his brothers.

PSALMS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle

ISAIAH 49:26 The Lord will cause the oppressors of the Israelite's toeat their own flesh and to become drunk on their own blood as with wine.

EZEKIEL 6:12-13 The Lord says: "... they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them. And they will know I am the Lord, when the people lie slain among their idols around their altars, on every high hill and on all the mountaintops, under every spreading tree and every leafy oak ...."

EZEKIEL 20:26 In order that he might horrify them, the Lord allowed the Israelites to defile themselves through, amongst other things, the sacrifice of their first-born children.

EZEKIEL 21:3-4 The Lord says that he will cut off both the righteous and the wicked that his sword shall go against all flesh.

EZEKIEL 23:25,47 God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those who were whores. (( collective punishment in the bible !! )) SO MUCH LOVE INDEED !! :rolleyes:

INFANTS SHALL BE DASHED IN PIECES !!! IMMENSE CHRISTIAN LOVE :rolleyes:

HOSEA 13:16 "They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

MATTHEW 11:21-24 Jesus curses [the inhabitants of] three cities who were not sufficiently impressed with his great works.

After reading the above verses from the bible, I came to conclusion that christianity is false sect based on false promises and lies, and before you tell me JESUS LOVES YOU, I will tell you and I love him too because I am Muslim.

Here is my invitation to you to abandon your false sect called christianity and join the only true religion: ISLAM

http://www.jesus-or-allah.com

You ALMOST made a good point. But here are your fatal errors -

1. Although you don't believe this way, the Jews are God's chosen people because they are the descendants of Isaac. We won't get into that. But when God lead his people out of Babylonian oppression, to start the Jewish state, it was directly ordered by God to destroy all that was there, because if the Jews didn't annihilate the Babylonians, then A. they could strike back later, and B. They would influence the Jews to worship idols and commit adultery, etc. If you were Allah, and you wanted the creation of a Muslim state to glorify you, would you want Jews hanging around to persuade your people otherwise? This is God's logic, and this is also why it speaks of this in Kings 1+2.

2. You didn't search the Bible for love. If you did, the verses you would have found would not have fit on this page. You looked for the verses that you percieve as hate.

3. These cannabalism passages are parts of stories that have a moral: GOD DESPISES IT. I give you no credit for leaving out the parts that condemn it shortly before or after. In a court case, the old oath goes "I swear to tell the truth, THE WHOLE TRUTH, and nothing but the truth." You left out the whole truth.

4. God hates slavery. But he had to allow it because in those times, without slaves, the society would perish.

Christian love is not hate. Keep that in mind.

Yours in Christ,

Kevin

This goes out to all muslims, in the Quran it says "Every nation has a Warner", such is the power of Allah that "a prophet was sent in every tongue" - so I will ask you again as in another thread you willingly overlooked the question, - if the objective will be reached to all in their tongue why then must we turn from the tongue we know? - so that religion may be interpreted to us by men? Only to get the same message, that we must not kill, must not lie.....There can only be 1 source & if you arrive at the sea you do not talk of the tributary, so at this great sea of Islam why is there so much talk of tributaries, in an ocean of waves, why are you saying, "we are waves", when you are infact "ocean"
Muhammed said, more than once, that he was merely continuing what was started long before his time, that he brought no new religion, I think many Muslims/Christians/Jews may not truly understand the depth of their own books, I cannot challenge your faith but your interpretation of it I question, like the book of the Christians it is written in the spirit of men who we would call mystics - they are not named this for no reason , you have to immerse yourself in the water to get the pearl, it is not given to you.

This I have seen from the men of your lineage, these are the words of Islam, I do not insult you with them, I remind.

[QUOTE=Vienna]Proud Muslim

bath has quoted some very disturbing quotations from muslims via paltalk. Now, these quotes are instructing muslims of today to become martyrs, etc, etc. Nowhere in the Bible will you find an equivalent.

Vienna, those are not muslims they are AL MUHAJIRON, those who follow the one eyed pirate and his 200 gang.

I am very active on paltalk.com, most muslims there are very moderate, only those muhajiron scumbags.

Will you please explain why muslims are encouraging other muslims to kill in the name of Islam, and don't bother side stepping the issue by quoting the bible , because this time it doesn't wash, furthermore it doesn't matter.

Vienna, are muslims killing ?? there are about 2 billion muslim in the world, did you see them raising up and killing anyone ???

Those who are doing the bombings are not muslims, they are WAHHABIS.

Take a look at this from todays telegraph, the Muslim council of Great Britain has been on the news all day, and a programme dedicated to them was televised last night. They talk of being anti terrorism and claim they are calling for all mosques to exercise greater vigilance about what might be being preached by fanatics.

How we can win this war against home-grown terror (http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/04/01/do0101.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/04/01/ixopinion.html)

At least we the moderate Muslims are doing our bit, ever asked yourself why there was no such phenomena as islamic terrorism before the 1980s ??? it is all to do with the sheer injustices the west inflict on Muslims.


Now all this talk via Paltalk makes the Muslim Council of Great Britain a bunch of liars.

So whats going on Proud?

What else can we do?? did the POPE prevented Hitler from killing millions of innocent people ?????????????????

Funny, nobody told those prophets to say the Shahada. No those prophets had nothing to do with Islam.

Muslim is someone who submit his will to Allah almighty, you dont even have the basics about islam !! :rolleyes:

You must be joking. Islam doesnt even dictate the ascendance of the Caliphate. That is why your caliphs keep ending up at the end of a sword. Lucky for Abu Bakr that he died too soon of old age. Unlucky for the rest who bathed in their own blood.

Again, amazing display of IGNORANCE....the prophet (pbuh ) told his companions that ABU BAKR should take charge after him.


Here is the jackpot question:
HOW ON EARTH DOES ISLAM QUALIFIES AS A RELIGION OF PEACE???

AND HERE IS THE JACKPOT ANSWER:

Some examples of Muslim tolerance:

If we believe the testimony of Salman ben Yeruham, A Karaite Jewish author, writing about A.D. 950, the Muslims granted the Jews access to Jerusalem and its holy sites. Salman wrote:


"As it is known, Jerusalem remained under the rule of the Rum [the Byzantines] for more than 500 years, during which they [the Jews] were not able to enter Jerusalem. Anyone who was discovered entering was killed. When by the mercy of the God of Israel the Rum departed from us and the kingdom of Ishmael [the Arabs] appeared, the Jews were granted permission to enter and reside there."

During the reign of Saladin this traditional Islamic tolerance continued. Conversely, when the Crusaders entered Jerusalem, they burned the Jews in their synagogue.

From 1099 to 1189, Jews were not allowed to live in the city. But with the Muslim repossession of Jerusalem, Jews were allowed to return. The Spanish poet Yehuda al-Harizi, who was in Jerusalem in 1207, described the significance for the Jews of the recovery of Jerusalem by Saladin:

[ In A.D. 1190] God aroused the spirit of the prince of the Ishmaelites [Saladin], a prudent and courageous man, who came with his entire army, besieged Jerusalem, took it and had it proclaimed throughout the country that he would receive and accept the entire race of Ephraim, wherever they came from. And so we came from all comers of the world to take up residence here. We now live here in the shadow of peace.

Further testament to Saladin's tolerance comes from the eminent German Jewish historian of the Nineteenth Century, Heinrich Graetz. In his Geschichte der Juden [History of the Jews], vol. 11, published in 1853, he states that the Sultan, "opened the whole kingdom to the persecuted Jews, so they came to it, seeking security and finding justice.''

Source: The Arab American ROMAN CATHOLIC community.

http://www.al-bushra.org/jerusalem1/jerhist.htm

Islam IS a religion of peace for MUSLIMS it is a religion of hatred and violence for everybody else. Join our cult or suffer hellfire, jihad, ostracism, dhimmi tax, reduced status in the eyes of the law etc etc

Christianity is really the religion of Peace, let us read from the Bible:

2KI NGS2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

2KINGS 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him." DISGUSTING !!

2KINGS 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.

EZEKIEL 6:12-13 The Lord says: "... they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them. And they will know I am the Lord, when the people lie slain among their idols around their altars, on every high hill and on all the mountaintops, under every spreading tree and every leafy oak ...."

EZEKIEL 9:4-6 The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women ...."

EZEKIEL 20:26 In order that he might horrify them, the Lord allowed the Israelites to defile themselves through, amongst other things, the sacrifice of their first-born children.

EZEKIEL 21:3-4 The Lord says that he will cut off both the righteous and the wicked that his sword shall go against all flesh.

EZEKIEL 23:25,47 God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those who were whores.

HOSEA 13:16 "They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

MATTHEW 11:21-24 Jesus curses [the inhabitants of] three cities who were not sufficiently impressed with his great works.

http://www.evilbible.com

Muslim is someone who submit his will to Allah almighty, you dont even have the basics about islam !!

Ah but those older prophets called their God "YHVH", not "Allah". They have nothing to do with the false religion called Islam.


Again, amazing display of IGNORANCE....the prophet (pbuh ) told his companions that ABU BAKR should take charge after him.

That was only a rumor. Its not on paper. Its not in the quran.


Some examples of Muslim tolerance:

If we believe the testimony of Salman ben Yeruham, A Karaite Jewish author, writing about A.D. 950, the Muslims granted the Jews access to Jerusalem and its holy sites. Salman wrote:


"As it is known, Jerusalem remained under the rule of the Rum [the Byzantines] for more than 500 years, during which they [the Jews] were not able to enter Jerusalem. Anyone who was discovered entering was killed. When by the mercy of the God of Israel the Rum departed from us and the kingdom of Ishmael [the Arabs] appeared, the Jews were granted permission to enter and reside there."

During the reign of Saladin this traditional Islamic tolerance continued. Conversely, when the Crusaders entered Jerusalem, they burned the Jews in their synagogue.

From 1099 to 1189, Jews were not allowed to live in the city. But with the Muslim repossession of Jerusalem, Jews were allowed to return. The Spanish poet Yehuda al-Harizi, who was in Jerusalem in 1207, described the significance for the Jews of the recovery of Jerusalem by Saladin:

So? Jews were allowed back but that doesn’t mean they lived in peace without oppression. In fact muslims were only LESS BRUTAL than the Christians. Muslims oppressed both Christians & Jews under their rule by the PACT OF UMAR which dhimmified those poor people. Islam in the past was the lesser of two evils.

Ah yes, moralitiy. "What we all...need now...is love...sweet love...dooo do dooo do dooo do". Until the next big meteor comes crashing into earth sending us all flying into oblivion.

Praise be to (insert god of your choice here)

According to the koran...

"It lays down strict rules of combat which include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees and livestock." - posted by munim 786 in earlier posts.

Prohibits harming civilians. So do terrorist attacks like 9/11, spain, suicide bombers in israel and other places that kill countless civilians go against islam? Will the perpetrators be punished by allah?

Just curious.

This goes out to all muslims, in the Quran it says "Every nation has a Warner", such is the power of Allah that "a prophet was sent in every tongue" - so I will ask you again as in another thread you willingly overlooked the question, - if the objective will be reached to all in their tongue why then must we turn from the tongue we know? - so that religion may be interpreted to us by men? Only to get the same message, that we must not kill, must not lie

.....Are there no Muslims? Will they not speak?