Ezekiel 4:12
And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.

Isaiah 36:12
Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

I think I'll pass =(

Cool now we have Tony2!:D :rolleyes:

Keep up the good work, and quote that bible!!:eek: ;)

Wonder if my ex wife has read Tony2's bible scriptures.... would explain alot about the taste of her cooking.:p

Gee, wonder who this Tony2 could be...

Apparently God will make you eat shit if you push him hard enough.

Ben

That Tony2's bible quotes are not contradictions? So why don't you be a good little christian boy and have some shit for breakfast! kal :bugeye: :D

Maybe they meant it in a fast food context. :)

BTW Any relation to Tony1?

"That Tony2's bible quotes are not contradictions? So why don't you be a good little christian boy and have some shit for breakfast! kal"

As I can read more than people tell me to read I know why they were eating shit and why I have no need to.

There is no contradiction.

Ben

KalvinB...

If you know why they do this, (eat shit, drink piss), please pass it on!

Why

Why ask why? Didn't you know? "God works in mysterious ways".

But, more importantly, let them continue. :D lol :D

I see no contradiction in shitheads following a book about eating the stuff.

ESP:

I'm sure you're capable of reading so why don't you go pick up a Bible and read all of Ezekiel 4?

Then tell me why they were eating shit.

Ben

I'm sure you're capable of reading so why don't you go pick up a Bible and read all of Ezekiel 4?

Then tell me why they were eating shit.

Well...
I was sort of hoping that since you said that you know why they were, you could maybe post the reason here, and save any athiests out there the trouble of readin through that big thick book! :)

Seriously,
I was an alter server, but lost the faith. If you can summise the relevant details I would be much obliged, as I don't currently have a copy of the worlds number one best seller!

BTW: most people with letters after their name can read! :)

"and save any athiests out there the trouble of readin through that big thick book"

Save you the trouble of reading and thinking for yourself? That would do you a disservice.

I don't care why you don't have a Bible. Get one or don't bother posting your opinion of it. You can't very well even pretend to have an educated opinion on this issue at this point can you?

Ben

It don't make sence! why would a benevolent god would make men eat their own shiet?.

heres Ezekiel: 4

Ezekiel, Chapter 4
SAB

4:1
Thou also, son of man, take thee a tile, and lay it before thee, and pourtray upon it the city, even Jerusalem:
4:2
And lay siege against it, and build a fort against it, and cast a mount against it; set the camp also against it, and set battering rams against it round about.
4:3
Moreover take thou unto thee an iron pan, and set it for a wall of iron between thee and the city: and set thy face against it, and it shall be besieged, and thou shalt lay siege against it. This shall be a sign to the house of Israel.
4:4
Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.
4:5
For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.


4:6
And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
4:7
Therefore thou shalt set thy face toward the siege of Jerusalem, and thine arm shall be uncovered, and thou shalt prophesy against it.
4:8
And, behold, I will lay bands upon thee, and thou shalt not turn thee from one side to another, till thou hast ended the days of thy siege.
4:9
Take thou also unto thee wheat, and barley, and beans, and lentiles, and millet, and fitches, and put them in one vessel, and make thee bread thereof, according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon thy side, three hundred and ninety days shalt thou eat thereof.
4:10
And thy meat which thou shalt eat shall be by weight, twenty shekels a day: from time to time shalt thou eat it.
4:11
Thou shalt drink also water by measure, the sixth part of an hin: from time to time shalt thou drink.



4:12
And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.
4:13
And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them.
4:14
Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth.



4:15
Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith.


4:16
Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, behold, I will break the staff of bread in Jerusalem: and they shall eat bread by weight, and with care; and they shall drink water by measure, and with astonishment:
4:17
That they may want bread and water, and be astonied one with another, and consume away for their iniquity.

What sence of this can you make Kal? eat shiet to defeat your enemies? lol. What possible reason could a benevolent god have to make men eat thier own waste other than to humiliate!?.



















Eat shiet if you don't like it!. :rolleyes: :D
Not really Kalvin! I'm not as cruel as your god!!:bugeye: :p

You know what,

You guys make me sick.

Theres a line, its called respect. Its fine to joke around with someone up to a point, but when you treat their beliefs in that fashion like that, you tread on them personally.

I dont like tony1 very much. But you guys give Americans bad names. I'm ashamed to say that I defend you guys when people trash your country.

Think of GHandi's little saying, you know about being the change you want ta see, well, you guys better be respectful to tony1 otherwise you'll be pulling up gaps and setting up walls between eachother.

You dont have to submit to the guy, but if you ever want to talk to him intelligently, then at least treat his beliefs with respect.


Who knows, maybe someday he will come around. I'm not gonna give up on the guy....

My my my my my...OK enough! The dung was not IN the bread...it was used as the fuel for the fire that the bread was cooked on. It is not an appetizing thought...and was to prove a point in context. However useing dung for fire fuel is still in practice in civilizations today where there is no other resource or ability to buy any other resource for fuel such as wood or coal.

I know it is easy to get testy...and take it out on the wrong source. The Bible is not the cause of the division here, peoples opinions are. Please research or check what you are reading before you get that far in to berateing it.
Can we please let this subject go now and move on? Please????

I thought it was pretty funny.

Ben

Ok! apoligies made to anyone who may feel offended, however Taken did take the time to explain the vague discriptions of Ezekiel, after her explanation I can understand it a bit more clearly, then after reading again knowing the dung is going to be used as fuel it makes a little more sence!!.

Thanks Taken! ;)

However move on? to what, the thread began as "Ezekiel 4:12 eating dung and drinking urine."

So I will try to keep this thread going on Ezekiel ok!

why then after the dung thing is this given?: Ezekiel 4:14
Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth.

To break up the above would mean that these people were starving themselves. i.e.:"for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself," This to me means that they have not eaten meat, nor fruit cause animals and fruits both die of itself. Clear this up, why is it then that dung of men and beast needed for fuel? Couldn't an omnipotent god, given or provided other means of fueling their fire?.

Originally posted by KalvinB
"and save any athiests out there the trouble of readin through that big thick book"

Save you the trouble of reading and thinking for yourself? That would do you a disservice.

I don't care why you don't have a Bible. Get one or don't bother posting your opinion of it. You can't very well even pretend to have an educated opinion on this issue at this point can you?

Ben

I don't want and certainly wouldn't allow ANYONE to think for me.

I simply thought that since you had already said;
As I can read more than people tell me to read I know why they were eating shit and why I have no need to.
and were already here that it might not have been too much trouble for you to elucidate on a statement you had made.

I may well aquire a Bible, since my questions and opinions are clearly worthless without one.
Do I also need a Koran to have an opinion of Islam?

"Do I also need a Koran to have an opinion of Islam?"

To have an opinion no, you don't need one. To have an educated opinion, yes you will need one. I don't have one so I keep my mouth shut concerning Islam as uneducated opinions are worthless.

"I don't want and certainly wouldn't allow ANYONE to think for me."

Then don't ask me to.

"and were already here that it might not have been too much trouble for you to elucidate on a statement you had made. "

But that would save you the trouble of figuring it out for youself. Something that apparently is beyond a number of people here resulting in these rediculous discussions.

Ben

Ezekiel was appointed as a LookOut for the nation of Isreal. He was in short a prophet who was to foretell Isreal of impending danger that God would foretell to him. Failing to relay those messages that would forewarn and possibly save people was to be done, or Ezekiel would be held accountable for their lives.

In the cooking with "dung" verses...God is instructing Ezekiel to act out the siege of Jerusalem. It was to represent the way the Israelites would have to eat food that was forbidden them when they were scattered out in to foriegn countrys.

Ezekiel protested that he had not since his birth eaten anything that was considered unclean so God said "very well I shall allow you to use cow dung instead of human dung for the fire".

Died by itself means a not fresh kill. In other words scavenging carcassas like animals would be considered unclean. The animals they ate had to be killed by their hands and in a certain way. So to eat a animal that died of sickness or was killed by another wild animal was forbidden.
The laws governing the nation of Isreal are very intricate and detailed and understanding them or atleast being aware of them helps to make more sense out of the Old Testament.

Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy are where you will find a break down of the laws that govern them.

Gods prophets did many "outrageouse" things to get Isreals attention and warn them...from being mute to walking the streets naked...to shaveing their heads...to living in the wilderness.

Originally posted by KalvinB
"Do I also need a Koran to have an opinion of Islam?"

To have an opinion no, you don't need one. To have an educated opinion, yes you will need one. I don't have one so I keep my mouth shut concerning Islam as uneducated opinions are worthless.

"I don't want and certainly wouldn't allow ANYONE to think for me."

Then don't ask me to.

"and were already here that it might not have been too much trouble for you to elucidate on a statement you had made. "

But that would save you the trouble of figuring it out for youself. Something that apparently is beyond a number of people here resulting in these rediculous discussions.

Ben

I didn't ask you to think for me. What I did ask was for you to go on from your statemtment that you knew why this passage was included in the bible. Being as unhelpful as you are, I accessed an e-bible to try to understand the original quote in the way it was intended in the book.
I saw that the original quote was given woefully out of context.
This whole thread, instead of being instructive and enjoyable, has. for me, really got on my tits.
I remember why I lost my faith now.
Too many people are interested in the letter of the bible than the true meaning.

"I saw that the original quote was given woefully out of context. "

Good for you. So did all the actual Christians here.

"Too many people are interested in the letter of the bible than the true meaning."

Oh so since so many people don't get it, you should just give up? A lot of people suck at football but you don't see the pros walking out because of it.

"Being as unhelpful as you are, I accessed an e-bible to try to understand the original quote in the way it was intended in the book."

Which is what I wanted you to do. If I had been helpful you wouldn't have learned as much as you did.

Ben

Originally posted by KalvinB
"I saw that the original quote was given woefully out of context. "

Good for you. So did all the actual Christians here.

"Too many people are interested in the letter of the bible than the true meaning."

Oh so since so many people don't get it, you should just give up? A lot of people suck at football but you don't see the pros walking out because of it.

"Being as unhelpful as you are, I accessed an e-bible to try to understand the original quote in the way it was intended in the book."

Which is what I wanted you to do. If I had been helpful you wouldn't have learned as much as you did.

Ben

I used to be a christian but not any more by definition. The basic christian principles are a good basis for an ethical life. That's why I gave it up. I've not really learned anything here. I have handled new information, but have seen nothing new.

Do you actually mean you can think for yourself? Never knew you could do so. It doesn't show anywhere you are thinking for yourself. You only are unfriendly and very unchristian in your replies. Because what I have understood about good christians is that they have to love their neighbours, thus also their fellow members at Sciforums, as theirselves!! Guess you don't love yourself, do you?

If you can read in your holy bible, than probably you know the Kabbalah as well, for they are both Jewish from origin.

Can you explain the 39 paths of wisdom to me? Or were there 36? Now I lost track of counting here. Yeah, yeah, all you believers have your own holy book. The bible, the Koran, whatever, if you godbelievers can babble and nag about it you are happy. Well I am sick of your everlasting unfriendly replies.

I know a lot of godbelievers who are very nice to hang around with, but you sure are not one of them. Why can't you give a normal reply? Taken can do it...Why can't you? To narrow minded I guess. Bet you look like this:bugeye:, because of your hanging with your face in your holy bible every day.

Well, I can imagine why you are so sour, given the thought you have to eat your own shit and drink your own urine...:p

"Why can't you give a normal reply?"

Because if I give you the answer I still have to convince you. If I require you to find the answer yourself, you'll convince yourself.

Ben

*Originally posted by Banshee
Taken can do it...Why can't you? *

Taken worships whales, and can't decide whether she is Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or all three, plus some other stuff she makes up herself.

Thus, she is just like you, so her answers seem comforting and familiar.

"I used to be a christian but not any more by definition. The basic christian principles are a good basis for an ethical life. That's why I gave it up. I've not really learned anything here. I have handled new information, but have seen nothing new."

So once you know the truth you don't need it anymore?

Ben

Hey girl I got your answer thanks it would have helped if I had stayed in sunday school I guess, however many things in the bible are so very vaque!. This is the reason a lot of confussion exists in depicting the scriptures and finding controversy!. However some explanations I've heard about of the controversy of the bible were do to translations of the languages. Thus this book has been translated from Hebrew to Latin, and on & on, many concepts have been lost, and many mistakes more than likely made as well.

Anyhow thanks anyway. I really appreaciate some one that takes the time to answer a simple question, instead of doing a KalvinB, or an OH!!:eek: a Tony1 and totally evading any kind of answer.

You two bo-sos could really learn from this lady, specially you Tony:p

Quote KalvinB:"So once you know the truth you don't need it anymore?

What truth?

That ESP found out christianity was a fraud!?

Well heck if that's the truth then I can see why he gave it up.:rolleyes:

Too true! :)
The values that christians are supposed to subscribe to are on the whole an excellent set of guidelines.
When you realise that, presuppositions about existance of god(s) lose their validity. If you're a good person, you don't need the wrath of god hanging over you to make you live a good life.

Taken and the whales, from the post by tony1,
Better to worship something that we know exists!
If more people worshipped the whales, maybe there'd be more of them left.

"I used to be a christian but not any more by definition. The basic christian principles are a good basis for an ethical life. That's why I gave it up. I've not really learned anything here. I have handled new information, but have seen nothing new."

So once you know the truth you don't need it anymore?

Ben

What truth exactly?
Christianity never gave me any truth. The values are good, but couold be arrived at without religion.
I dropped the religion so I didn't have to say 'I believe' at mass one more time.

Godless you are more than welcome. It is difficult to understand a lot of times. Most especially the KJV. But their are a lot of really "cool" stories in the Bible other than the old standards they teach in Sunday school. My personal favorite has always been the three Hebrew Children. The life of Saul is also very consuming. Regardless of your reasons for reading it, weather it be instruction, intrigue or historical I would suggest anyone take the time to do so. In it you will find more adventure, controversy,excitement, and inspiration than any movie or other book ever written.

Have to admit that I really love the Whales, Dolphins, Orca's and all other living species of the Seas. Without building a religion out of it. Simply because they ARE and because they live in such a great way.:) And no Whale has ever made humans eating their own shit and drink their own urine. But hey, what the hell. Some humans need to believe, have to hang on to something, don't they?

No irritating godbelievers in the Seas who want to convinch me to believe in something I had the most terrible experiences in my lifetime with.:( I have respect for the godbelievers who leave humans, who see 'things' different, in their own value. It is not necessarry to force your godbelieving into somebody's life.

Than again, did you really read your bible well? There is mentioned a lot in that book that is not explained and comes closer to worshipping extraterrestrials than your ONE god. Isn't it so that your holy god almighty was afraid the Israelites would leave him for other gods? Isn't that the reason your holy god almighty sent his 'son' jesus down to Earth?

For Tony1 and Kalvin B to answer on this one. Taken is a different believer, I have respect for her way of believing and not forcing it into someone else's life.;)

Really, this holy god almighty with its stupid and cruel rules has done a 'good' job on the 2 of you T1 and KB, didn't it? Did you have a cheap dinner last night?:D

"Christianity never gave me any truth. The values are good, but couold be arrived at without religion. I dropped the religion so I didn't have to say 'I believe' at mass one more time."

You completely missed the point of Christianity then.

"If you're a good person, you don't need the wrath of god hanging over you to make you live a good life."

The point is to do good out of love, not fear. Do you only obey your parents because you fear them?

Ben

Originally posted by KalvinB
"Christianity never gave me any truth. The values are good, but couold be arrived at without religion. I dropped the religion so I didn't have to say 'I believe' at mass one more time."

You completely missed the point of Christianity then.

"If you're a good person, you don't need the wrath of god hanging over you to make you live a good life."

The point is to do good out of love, not fear. Do you only obey your parents because you fear them?

Ben

I don't fear my parents.
Neither do I do as they say.
I'm a real person in my own rite, capable of handling life without running off to my parents.
I respect them as I do all my friends. Their opinions and advice are listened to, but not necessarily used.

I can't say that I love all people, because that would be a lie.
Is it not enough that I treat them in the right manner out of simple respect for humanity and courtesy?

"I don't fear my parents. Neither do I do as they say.
I'm a real person in my own rite, capable of handling life without running off to my parents."

How about when you were younger?

Do you think Christians can do nothing except God say they can?

Ben

When I was younger...

I never feared my parents then either.
Of course I was more dependant upon them and had to do as they said, but even then, my obedience to them was not really driven from my love for them, more from the fact that I knew that they had more ability and wisdom than me.

I dont, of course believe that Christians cannot act without Gods' approval. That could only be true if God had a plan for creation.

"but even then, my obedience to them was not really driven from my love for them, more from the fact that I knew that they had more ability and wisdom than me"

Then you havn't learned Christian ethics have you?

Ben

I think I have a fair appreciation of basic christian fundamentals.
Is the part you are refering to respect and obey thy parents?
Does that need to be followed by 'no matter what'?
And refering to your litany on love as the origin for all amiable interaction, by honouring them; I can't see the part that says you have to love them?

Check 'free thoughts, daddy's little soldier"... l

Not in any way, sorry to say so.

My parents are strong godbelievers and say their prayers every day before and after every meal. They go to church every Sunday and preach hell and doom to me. They do so from the day I was born and took me to church from the day I opened my eyes I guess, could be even sooner.:rolleyes: Well, it didn't work out for them or for your god, for I was a firm non believer in my childhood. I had a rather strange childhood, not very nice. Parents who adored the material luxury in life and were never there because they had to make money.

I have wondered many times what I was doing there, with them. Like I was not at the right place.

Never ever have I feared one of my parents and obey them I have honestly tried. Everything I did was wrong...always.

Well, my life turned out fine some later and I am happy with who I am INSIDE, because THAT is what counts. And how you go along with other humans and how you treat Earth, Nature and Her inhabitants.

KalvinB, you sound like a fraud, first you are a christian godbeliever and now you are telling a different story...:confused:

"KalvinB, you sound like a fraud, first you are a christian godbeliever and now you are telling a different story..."

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Ben

I happened to have nothing better to do then keep myself occupied with the poor of mind at the Religion Forum. Satisfied...?:cool:

oh okay. Didn't answer the question but whatever.

Ben

Very interesting older posts. :D