I've always valued multiculturalism as something that contributed to society in general. But I've also always maintained that if allowed to run to extremes - such as "everything is equal, no matter how diverse" that it would lead to serious difficulties. It now appears that Europe has learned the lesson of what the U.S. has been trying to deal with for so many years. Allowing entire cultures to co-exist in full side by side is asking for disaster.. America has tried to be accommodating and make allowances for cultural an language differences. It has met with only limited success. Europe, up until now, has pretty much turned a blind eye to the whole thing, letting it run to whatever extreme it chose by sheer social inertia. And now they are waking up to the lesson that "anything goes" simply does not work anymore. The article I am about to link to shows that several countries now realize the havoc they have allowed to build and are starting to take strong measures to turn it around. This trend can only strengthen and eventually sweep all across the continent. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11569485/site/newsweek/
And I suppose you agree that Europe acted decisively the last time it racial mix was threatened by annihilating the Jewish and Gypsy population of Europe in WW2 .This article is nothing more than racist bullshit !! But read another European article from today and it dont bode well for Jews either . If I was you , I would very careful what soap you decide to sell , because you could very well be giving support to a future Holocaust against human beings in Europe .
THEY SAY.... those who do not remember their history are domed to repeat it. obviously... all of europe is waking up to the fact that they have forgot their anceint history... ROME... fell because of muticulturalism. -MT
Not in the least!!!! That's neither my intent NOR my position. I'm saying that ANY society can only stand so much of FULL BLOWN cultural diversity and still function. I have absolutely no argument against racial mixing whatsoever. It's the inevitable clashing of very different cultures that I'm addressing. Not race or country of origin. Get with it Foley, your attempts to put words into my mouth and establish things that I abhor simply will not cut it.
This from a fellow who believes almost every single conspiracy theory against Jews, who doesn't mind the blood libel and who thinks Israel should be obliterated? Your moral imperative is hobbled by your bigoted outlook. Geoff
Europe before any non-whites lived there was amaze of different cultures , just take England a mass of regional differences and dialects same as Italy , France and Germany , not to mention the multicultured Balkans . I remain unconvinced , all 3 pages of that article talked about non-white cultures supposedly thraetening the European way of life . Then what cultures are you pertaining to ? Would they be the Black culture of Africa and Brown culture of Asia ? Your article clearly states ethnicity : That is race is not . I am not putting words into your mouth , this is your thread , you posted that link , so you must agree with the contents of that source , so you must stand by it .This article is nothing more than some racist , xenophobic pile of shit .
Europes problem is one thing they are bankrolling muslims with welfare cheques, muslims going to live in america are not given a welfare cheque as soon as they land at the airport. Europe is, we are paying for cars for them, homes for them, they never have to work a day in there life, and all they do all day long is sit in mosques listening to some loony cleric or iman telling them how naughty & nasty europeans are with there alcohol, there prostitutes, there supposed support for a jewish state, how our politicians our all in the pockets of israel. Is it any wonder europe is fucked, instead of filling there bags full of cash as they land at our airports, how about sticking a shovel in there hands, and say if you want to work great, if you want to sit in mosques all day, you might as well piss off back to the middle east, you can do that there, but at least we wont be paying for it.
Shove off, Foley. I rather expected you to twist and distort it into something that it's clearly not. I'm finished with you on this. You can rave on if you wish and I'll simply ignore you.
That's because the dutch (mostly) are too tunnel-minded to think of something greater than themselves: a unified europe, the first step towards a unified humanity.
Just Ban the Damn Religious morons from praying GOD. Make it illegal to pray god in or out of homes, the reason ? National security and peace.
it is interesting that you say this. i live in belgium. i have been to holland a few times. i say the exact same thing about the dutch, but this problem is actually worse in belgium. right now, there is a group of politicians that are trying to actually seperate Wallonia (french speaking belgium) from vlanders (nederlands speaking belgium) PURELY on the fact of the vast economic differences between the two regions. belgium is the seat of the EU. now how stupid is it to divide the country?
Couldn't have said it better myself. And as for welfare in America, they get their checks a little bit after they leave the airport. America is not that much better, it's very easy for new immigrants to apply for welfare, and than send that welfare money off to their families in other countries. I'm hardly against immigration, hell my mother was an immigrant, the United States is a melting pot and that is a great thing, but when people are allowed to immigrate here, recieve money from our government and our free market, and than send it off to other countries, that just helps to kill our consumer based economy. We need people who make money in the United States to spend it here, or our economy will suffer. I find it horrible that Mexico's leading revenue stream is the money being sent by Mexican immigrants who hoped the border.
I agree, cultures may differ, but need to adhere to a few core values. What exactly those values are is still a matter of debate, but I'd say a few are undisputable for most of us: freedom of speech, press, religion and enterprise, equality of all regardless colour, sexual preference, sex and religion. Nevertheless, I believe Europe is instinctively reprehensive with shoving their respective national cultures down their citizens' throats. Since the last world war, many came to the conclusion that out of bounds nationalism is not a particulary healthy thing. Even to take a small step in the direction of prefering one cultural point over another, is shaded by severe doubt and self reflection. Our history rightly haunts us. Yet, there must exist a fine balance between, as the article put it, a "cultural laissez faire" and the consciously cultivated nationalism that brought us so much misery in the past. Where this balance is, we are in the process of finding out. I just hope that during the public debates concerning this issue and more importantly, during the elections, none of the populist parties will be able to cultivate fear and mistrust enough to rise to power.
Yes, Mouse, I would agree with you. The issue isn't the sort's of things you listed, even though some of those are in the mix. The custom, as was mentioned, of keeping a wife completely out of the public view and not even allowing her to learn the language of the country in which she is living. Some cultural differences result in generating distaste, animosity and even outright fear. Things like that should not be tolerated in any society or country. One thing in this is quite certain: the pendulum will swing back and forth many, many times before it can ever settle anywhere near the center. Sparks will fly like fireworks on a holiday because of politics, religion, greed and self-serving interests. I don't know if or how much of it will ever be resolved but there IS a transition about to take place.
To expand on the above example: to keep one against one's will was, is and will remain to be illegal. I don't think European nations ever tolerated this kind of behaviour. What may have been true is that we thought it just didn't happen. A law, which at least draws women and men out from their communities and homes, is the compulsory language and integration course. If people don't show up, they are in risk of loosing their permit. Be carefull there. If those differences themselves fall within the law, you can't just make an exception for one culture, and let the other prevail with out a good justification. One example is the Dutch constitutional right which ensures that every one can open up a school which, next to the national curriculum, offers a different ideology, religion and/or teaching methodology. This law was drawn in a time when Protestants and Catholics just rather not share one class room with eachother. However, with the increase of Islam oriented schools, some are worried that the Muslim youth is less exposed to Dutch culture, than they'd like them to be. Thus, we have this rather interesting dilemma. Do we give up this constitutional right and force secular public schools to be the standard, in the hope to sow there the first seeds of a cooperating melting pot? Or do we just grant this constitutional right for the established Christian schools? Or do we not change the constitutional at all? The first option would mean a tremendous loss of votes for any party in favour of it, the second option would rightly anger and discriminate those of a non-Christian religion and the third option is just the openly criticised status quo. Which is exactly my fear. In my opinion, we Europeans should be figuring out how to assure our long term wealth through a better economic and academic performance, rather than tumbling up and down the political spectrum with one government coalition undoing the work of the former. About to take place? I'm of the opinion we have already been changing gears for the last few years. Dutch society is notably different from the utopian social welfare state of the early nineties. To be honest, I'm not at all pleased with the results. While it's true that immigrants are granted education to ease the transition to Dutch society, our attitude towards them on the whole has become apprehensive, if not plain hostile. Where discrimination used to be outlawed, it now seems to be the (unofficial, but accepted) rule. That's certainly not helping to build a stable society.
It's not helping, mouse, but why are people becoming apprehensive in the first place? If radical muslim immigrants to Europe ran about putting flower garlands around people and giving them great big bear hugs, I don't expect anyone would really mind so much, excepting those with hay fever and an aversion to physical contact. Instead, they blow things up, stab people to death for making movies that are uncomplimentary to this 'prophet', beat or kill their female relatives for getting too local, preach hatred and supremacism in their religious centres, encourage (or demand) the adoption of Dark Ages perspectives on law, sexuality, theology and society, and threaten to kill those who disagree with them. That's the part that's not helping. If someone's trying to kill me and destroy my culture, I don't think it's objectionable if I'm a little leery of him. Geoff
Oh no , no , no on Sunday I noticed you authored a thread to boycott Dil because of your disgust at his anti-Jewish posting . Yet here on this thread you post a vile racist anti-human diatribe directed at non-white cultures , and attempt to conceal it under a veneer of multi-culturalism . Do what you want to do you coward , the plain fact is you have been caught out on double standards , I fully expect you not to answer anymore , afterall that is what hypocrites do when they are caught out .
I can't say I disagree with that. It is especially disastrous when that foreign culture is one that fosters a very primitive mindset and a violent religious extremism. I am of course referring to...
