View Full Version : Ethnicity of Middle Easterners


Roman
10-30-05, 04:11 PM
What ethnic group are Middle Easterners from? Do they get their own, or are they considered Asian?

WildBlueYonder
11-05-05, 08:44 PM
What ethnic group are Middle Easterners from? Do they get their own, or are they considered Asian?depends on what country they are from; most so-called 'arabs' have a non-arabic foundation, usually females & children were taken by the male arabs, who kept 4 wives or harems if they were nobles; see King Al-Saud, left about 52 children, that form the basis of the Saudi royal government
see below:
http://ibn-saud.biography.ms/
Ibn Saud had 52 children (of which 37 were boys), by several different women. They are:
1. By Wadhba bint Muhammad al-Hazzam
2. By Bazza
3. By Princess Jauhara bint Musaid Al Saud
4. By Jauhara bint Saad al-Sudairy
5. By Shahida
6. By Princess Haya bint Sa'ad al-Sudairy (1913 - April 18, 2003)
7. By Hessa bint Ahmad al-Sudairy (these are known as the "Sudairi Seven ")
8. By unknown

Roman
11-05-05, 09:02 PM
most so-called 'arabs' have a non-arabic foundation, usually females & children were taken by the male arabs, who kept 4 wives or harems if they were nobles; see King Al-Saud, left about 52 children, that form the basis of the Saudi royal government
see below

So most Arabs are Saudi royalty? ;)

I know the Turks were from the Asian steppe, similar to the Mongols. But what of Jews and Palestinians and Arabs?

WildBlueYonder
11-05-05, 09:07 PM
just fyi: here's a connection with Jewish ethnicity

http://www.med.nyu.edu/genetics/research/jewish_origins.html
Figure 1:Relatedness of Jewish and non-Jewish populations based on Y chromosomal haplotypes. Virtually all Jews came from the Middle East as evidenced by the clustering of their Y chromosomal haplotypes between Jewish groups and between Jews and non-Jewish Middle Easterners.

last year, I found a neat site that had tables, but I lost it after my hard drive crashed, I wish I remembered the URL

WildBlueYonder
11-06-05, 01:57 AM
So most Arabs are Saudi royalty? ;-)
no, all Saudi royalty is arab, descended from al-Aziz al-Saud.
in Egypt, the core of the population is from ancient Egyptians with arab males. in Lebanon, its ancient Phoenician, in Syria, it's Assyrian, in Iraq, it’s Chaldean. through conquest & conversion they became "arab"
I know the Turks were from the Asian steppe, similar to the Mongols. they too got mixed, from Asiatic, with Persian, Greek, Slav, etc... whoever they conquered, they mated with, see images of modern Turks
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9908/18/turkey.quake.02/link.ecevit.jpg
http://www.armenialiberty.org/images/photo/Turk-Rus2.jpg
But what of Jews and Palestinians and Arabs?need to find stats & tables, let me look

Roman
11-06-05, 02:04 AM
I always figured that the Middle East must have a really interesting ethnic history, as it's at the crossroads of three major continents, yet has such extreme tribalism and marriage practices.

WildBlueYonder
11-08-05, 08:42 PM
I always figured that the Middle East must have a really interesting ethnic history, as it's at the crossroads of three major continents, yet has such extreme tribalism and marriage practices.
I used the following keywords to google: dna tables jews Palestinians Arabs
then found these below:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=379128#RF54
click link above, to get actual tables listed below
Figures and Tables

Table 1
Y Chromosome Diversity within 18 Jewish and Non-Jewish Populations

Table 2
mtDNA Diversity within 18 Jewish and Non-Jewish Populations[Note]

Table 3
Frequently Encountered mtDNA Haplotypes

Table 4
Mean FST Values in mtDNA and Y Chromosome Data[Note]

Table 5
Comparison of X Chromosome LD among Georgian Jews and non-Jewish British Men


http://bioanthropology.huji.ac.il/pdf/Nebel%20_2005.pdf
Adobe Doc, I can’t copy, but tables start on pg 2 of this doc

http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2003-10/1066334341
About 18% of genes are shared between Arab Men from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq,
Palestine, and Jordan with Polish Jewish men, particularly Jews from
Bialystock, Poland. They also share similar markers in the immune system
dating to a possible common origin about 7,800 years ago in the Middle East.
Note that Iraqi Jewish men and Polish Jewish men also match closely in Y
chromosomes and also with the CMH. However, Iraqi Jewish women with 17% U3
mtDNA match with a high U3 in the Iraqi Christian Assyrian and Chaldean
population and most people in the Middle East in general. Ashkenazi mtDNA is
only 2.9% U3 and 9% H CRS, but Moroccan Sephardic mtDNA is 27% H CRS.

http://www.assyrianfoundation.org/genetics.htm
The results of these scientific studies lead to the startling realization that Turks, Iranians, Kurds, Iraqis, Jordanians, Lebanese are more closely related genetically to Assyrians than they are to other members of their own respective language families in Asia. These seven groups (and Jews) are genetically close. The great language, cultural and religious differences are not reflected in the most fundamental aspect of their biology - their genes, which are the most accurate indicators of their shared origins and ancestry.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=14674
Subjects. We analyzed 159 males from eight populations. These individuals were Ashkenazi Jews from Poland (20), Druze (20), Ethiopian Jews (19), Iraqi Jews (20), Libyan Jews (20), Moroccan Jews (20), Palestinian Arabs (20), and Yemenite Jews (20). DNA samples were obtained from The National Laboratory for the Genetics of Israeli Populations (www.tau.ac.il/medicine/NLGIP/nlgip.htm). Jewish DNA samples were contributed by second-generation immigrants to Israel from the various source populations.

Fraggle Rocker
11-08-05, 09:00 PM
But what of Jews and Palestinians and Arabs?The Palestinians are descended from the Philistines. Even the one name is just a phonetic evolution from the other. Beyond that their origin is a bit mysterious. You can spend several days googling "Philistine." The consensus is that they clearly came from a home in the eastern Mediterranean sometime during the First Millennium BCE. Cyprus and Crete are mentioned most often as possibilities but look at a map and it's just a highfalutin way of saying "duh." Where their ancestors lived before they became sailors is unknown. One school of thought says they were a tribe of Hittites. The name "Philistine" is used for a number of distinct peoples throughout ancient history, in more or less the same region, but it's not clear that they are actually the same people as ones who bore the label last and who were the ancestors of the Palestinians.

WildBlueYonder
11-09-05, 12:37 AM
The Palestinians are descended from the Philistines. Even the one name is just a phonetic evolution from the other. Beyond that their origin is a bit mysterious. You can spend several days googling "Philistine." yes, some have even said "greek", which would have meant they would have blended in with the 'hellenized' population during the Seleucid & Ptolemy periods after Alexander
The name "Philistine" is used for a number of distinct peoples throughout ancient history, in more or less the same region, but it's not clear that they are actually the same people as ones who bore the label last and who were the ancestors of the Palestinians.modern Palestinians are named for their region of origin, they may be arab, Samarian, etc... mix