Is the entropy the form of energy?
Energy is ability to work,then how do you explain entropy.My explanation would be entropy is form of energy(since every being,entity,process are forms of energy,too) which can't transfer to work.So,in that sense,the definition of energy shouldn't be ability to work.Also,some say,according to the second law of thermodynamics,entropy is area where energy gets lost.But the energy can't get lost,energy can't get destroyed,energy can't get created.

Now about the Big Bang:I have my own theory-universe hasn't been created by the big bang,but it's part,visible part of the universe.Todays' self-bragging,all-knowing astronomers all the space-time continuum was in singularity.I agree with that,but what about part of the universe where even galaxies and light aren't present.Today's astronomers think they know just about anything.If there's something they don't know,that's the beginning of the universe or perhaps the eternal universe(I mean on the invisible,futher part where there are no galaxies,stars and light,somewhere there is no matter only energy,energy may even be beyond space-time,at least the space-time we know.But these are all speculations,and nothing more than that.Someone like me ask where was energy before the big bang? I think this is all just part of zillions of parts of natural processes,and since I don't believe in any God(any supreme being in any religion,I only respect religions,but I don't support as they are talking about some all-supreme entity,I only support them because they give every human inside piece).
So,energy is uncreated, totally undestroyable and cant't just vanish or get consume, and etc...
It's eternal part part of nature,as well as the nature is!

Hi Gravage

"Also,some say,according to the second law of thermodynamics,entropy is area where energy gets lost."

Could you elaborate on this please ?

I don't agree that entropy and energy are the same (perhaps in some artificially constructed models they just happen to coincide, but not in general). And you have to realize that both are products of the human mind: you cannot take a piece of entropy or energy and put it in a bag. They just happen to be convenient quantities to work with: energy is convenient to describe dynamics on a certain level, entropy is convenient to describe (quasistatic) dynamics and to predict equilibrium states without explicitly solving the equations of motion and looking what happens for long times (= when system goes to equilibrium).

Bye!

Crisp

Well,everyone and everything is form of energy! Entropy,in astrophysics,is the from of energy which is unable to transfer into work.I read in books of physics.That means can't get lost in entropy.Whoever told that,according to the second law of thermodynamics,entropy is area where energy gets lost,is totally WRONG! The entire universe that exists today has been made of energy.I'll just say this visible universe we live in is form of energy.From them simplest form of energy to the most complex one.I agree completely with you Crisp in one thing:Both energy and entropy are you cannot take a piece of entropy or energy and put it in a bag. They just happen to be convenient quantities to work with.Hey,Crisp,have you ever wonder yourself of this universe is just another more complex form of energy,that has been transformed from another simpler form of energy?
Hmm...that's just speculation,but since everything in the universe transfers from one simple form of energy to the other more complex form of energy,I'd say that's even possible!
What do you think?
I could agree with you definition of energy and entropy,but as long as this means that entropy is the form of eternal energy.

Gravage:

Energy and entropy are different. Energy is the ability to do work. Entropy can be thought of, roughly, as the degree of disorder of a system. More entropy means the system is in a less ordered state.

No astronomer claims to know everything. They do tend to know a fair amount of astonomy, though.

Hi Gravage,

"Whoever told that,according to the second law of thermodynamics,entropy is area where energy gets lost,is totally WRONG!"

Hrmmmmm... I am not sure that I understand what you mean by this. There is a close relation between the "losing of energy" (physicists would prefer saying "the minimalisation of energy") and the maximalisation of entropy when a system tries to reach an equilibrium state: the equilibrium state would be the one where both the energy is as minimal as possible, and where the entropy is as maximum as possible. These are two competing mechanisms, and not completely directly related (there is a relation between internal energy and entropy though, through derivates etc).

Also, the second law is a bit of a dangereous thing to talk about nowadays... especially to me ;) ... While we speak there are quite some developments going on regarding the second law and a general microscopic foundation of it in non-equilibrium systems (i.e. for systems that are evolving towards an equilibrium state).

Bye!

Crisp

Originally posted by James R
Gravage:

Energy and entropy are different. Energy is the ability to do work. Entropy can be thought of, roughly, as the degree of disorder of a system. More entropy means the system is in a less ordered state.

I agree with you James,I know you're the right guy to discuss this about,but I have search thru net and saw sentence:Entropy is a form of energy which is unable to transfer back to work,it's irreversible process-please I read it so many times,and even I must say,consider entropy a form of energy.Also,I do agree,entropy is what you've stated,the degree of disorder of a system,but it's not chaos!

No astronomer claims to know everything. They do tend to know a fair amount of astonomy, though.

I agree.

Originally posted by Crisp
Hi Gravage,

"Whoever told that,according to the second law of thermodynamics,entropy is area where energy gets lost,is totally WRONG!"

Hrmmmmm... I am not sure that I understand what you mean by this. There is a close relation between the "losing of energy" (physicists would prefer saying "the minimalisation of energy") and the maximalisation of entropy when a system tries to reach an equilibrium state: the equilibrium state would be the one where both the energy is as minimal as possible, and where the entropy is as maximum as possible. These are two competing mechanisms, and not completely directly related (there is a relation between internal energy and entropy though, through derivates etc).

Well,energy doesn't lose,and can't get lost.Universe has the constant amount of which never changes...

Also, the second law is a bit of a dangereous thing to talk about nowadays... especially to me ;) ... While we speak there are quite some developments going on regarding the second law and a general microscopic foundation of it in non-equilibrium systems (i.e. for systems that are evolving towards an equilibrium state).

Bye!
see you!




Crisp

Hi Gravage,

"Well,energy doesn't lose,and can't get lost.Universe has the constant amount of which never changes..."

I totally agree :) ... I noticed my previous post was a bit vague, sorry about that, but if you have any more questions on entropy/energy, be sure to post em right here...

Bye!

Crisp

Originally posted by Crisp
Hi Gravage,

"Well,energy doesn't lose,and can't get lost.Universe has the constant amount of which never changes..."

I totally agree :) ... I noticed my previous post was a bit vague, sorry about that, but if you have any more questions on entropy/energy, be sure to post em right here...

Bye!

Crisp

There's current scientific movement supporting the theory that the universe is expanding. Please visit

http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/Cosmos/ExpandUni.html