Energy Equilibrium?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Kumar, Jul 9, 2006.

  1. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    Hello,

    "Energy always moves from a "higher concentration" of energy to a "lower concentration" of energy"

    "Electromagnetic (EM) radiation carries energy and momentum, which may be imparted when it interacts with matter." These carry energy ranging between 1.24 MeV-124FeV.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum "

    We also know about. Thermodynamic equilibrium

    Under all above considerations, can you tell me that;

    1. Can EM radiations also behave similarily...i.e. moving from higher to lower wavelengths if come into close contact with each other?

    2. If not, why?

    Best wishes.
     
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  3. Vern Registered Senior Member

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    Clarify Terms

    EM radiation does change frequency when it interacts with either matter and/or other EM radiation. It is somewhat reluctant to do so which is why we didn't discover this until recently. The conditions under which this happens is well documented in Fundamentals of Phoitonics, by Bahaa E. A. Saleh and Malvin Carl Teich, published by Wiley Interscience in 1991.
     
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  5. DaleSpam TANSTAAFL Registered Senior Member

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    This is simply false. The original source of this quote is probably not very reliable.

    -Dale
     
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  7. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    What is then right? How thermodynamic equilibrium takes place?

     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2006
  8. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    Why it don't happen commonly as per above property of energy?

    How we are able to seprate sun rays after passing through a prism? Why spectrum of sunrays remains the same?
     
  9. Vern Registered Senior Member

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    695
    It happens commonly when the conditions are right. Any high school physics book explains why the spectrum of sunrays remain the same. I see no puzzle there.
     
  10. DaleSpam TANSTAAFL Registered Senior Member

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    First, thermodynamic equilibrium has to do with temperature, not energy density or concentration. In other words, if a gas is hotter than a solid it will transfer energy to the solid even though the thermal energy density of the solid is much greater than the energy density of the gas. Temperature and energy density are completely separate concepts.

    Second, thermodynamic equilibrium is nice as a rule of thumb, but it doesn't always happen. Refregiration systems and heat pumps routinely move heat energy from a region of low temperature to a region of high temperature.

    I don't know what you are trying to understand, but I think you need to find some better sources.

    -Dale
     
  11. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    Can we take it that emitted, transmited or reflected spectrums will always remain the same inspite of atmospheric interferances?
     
  12. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    Whether say for example, red rays are not hotter than blue rayes? What will happen on their interactions? We get green colour on mixing of yellow with blue?

    Is it not due to other reason?
     
  13. Vern Registered Senior Member

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    695
    Emitted, transmitted or reflected spectrums will always appear as the established science predicts. I don't know that I can interpret your question well enough to give a more specific answer.

    It's been awhile since I studied optics so I don't consider myself a primary expert here.

    Vern
     
  14. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    Then, probably it may be ok that information of any subsance persist as its sprit in its Emitted, transmitted or reflected spectrums?
     
  15. DaleSpam TANSTAAFL Registered Senior Member

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    Temperature is a property of matter, not light. There is a type of spectral signature known as blackbody radiation, which is one of the early phenomenon explained by QM. That is the only way I know of associating temperature with frequency of light, but the temperature is still a property of matter (the blackbody), not light. A blackbody with a blue peak would be hotter than a blackbody with a red peak, but both would have some energy across the entire visible spectrum.


    Is what not due to reasons other than what?

    -Dale
     
  16. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    When a red rays or IR or UV, falls on a object, will these heat that object or not?


    Some mechanical force or pressure?
     
  17. DaleSpam TANSTAAFL Registered Senior Member

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    Depends. If they are reflected, no. If they are absorbed, yes.


    Please use complete sentences. It is impossible to understand you when you write like this.

    -Dale
     
  18. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    I read it somewhere:-

    Can't two type of flowing radiations in air also come into thermal equilibrium? Is it the reason for wavelengths not coming into euilibrium?

    I think, vibrations, electric current, magnetic field etc. may follow energy motion and equilibrium principle?

    Anyway, I have asked a question;

    Whether a spectrum reflected or emitted by a substance will persist or will always remain the same uneffected/uninterepted by atmosphere or not somewhat alike sprit of that substance?
     
  19. DaleSpam TANSTAAFL Registered Senior Member

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    The air can come into thermal equilibrium by radiative heat transfer; but again, temperature is a property of the air, not the radiation. In other words, a hot mass of air and a cold mass of air will each radiate energy. The hot mass of air will radiate more than the cold mass so the net energy transfer will be from the hot air to the cold air.


    I don't know anything about photon-photon interactions.

    -Dale
     
  20. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    1,990
    Sunlight is coming to us in same spectrum somewhat alike as emitted from the sun. How its spectrum is not changed by in between atmosphere. In our day to day life we see all things without interuption. It indicates spectrum remains the same.
     
  21. DaleSpam TANSTAAFL Registered Senior Member

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    You have a lot of mistaken information. The spectrum of sunlight is significantly changed by the atmosphere. That is why the sky looks blue and the sun looks yellow. The sunlight spectrum as emitted from the sun is white, but the blue component is significantly scattered by the atmosphere resulting in a blue color of the sky. Meanwhile, white minus blue is yellow, so the direct sunlight appears yellow instead of white.

    -Dale
     
  22. Kumar Registered Senior Member

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    Is not it so, that when we measure spectrum of sunlight at earth, it remains the same?
     
  23. DaleSpam TANSTAAFL Registered Senior Member

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    No.

    -Dale
     

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